Creation vs. Evolution

[Pako]

*snip* Jesus is not part of the Creation story, so why would He be the one patting you on the back about it?

Jesus is....

John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."​

God is....

Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."​

The authors of these verses thought Jesus was God....

 

[UnoMOTO]

There aren't real rules of staying on-topic per se. If you can make an argument or a point relevent to the discussion, that's fine. The main thing is to be sure that you are not using the side-topic to distract attention from a question you are avoiding. That's why you were 'accused' of bing off-topic before: when you didn't want to answer a question, you sometimes would send the discussion off in a new direction. That's not kosher.

Ok...I will make my ha ha's and stay on topic in the same post from now on.

It's weak because all you have to say is "This is what I know to be true" based on faith alone. Yes, that's the definition of faith, belief without evidence, but it doesn't "prove" anything other than your willingness to accept without question what you've been brought up to believe. There's nothing wrong with questioning it. Question it with your family, your pastor, your teachers.

Thats the bad position that you have put yourself in, The burdon is all on you because thats the route you choose. Ture...I get the luxury of challanging you with out having to back my side up. In my faith I don't have to prove anything. For a scientist everything revolves around proof. If you don't have evidence you only have thoeries.

Now I'm confiused. I had just outlined the process of a species changing to another through an evolutionary process, something you've defied all along, and yet you say you agree, as you've said all along? What does "That's all interspecies" mean, anyway?

You outlined a theory of how it "could" change species, but provided zero evidence that it happened the way you clamed.

My definition of interspecies is for example how we have many different kinds of dogs. Big ones, small ones you name it you have it, but in the end with all the evolutionary changes it still just makes a it just a dog.

Jesus is not part of the Creation story, so why would He be the one patting you on the back about it?

In my verson of the bible, the only way I get to heaven is to accept that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for our sins. It is also my responsiblity to love each of my brothers which includes you. So I must do my best to help you see what I see. That is why he will pat me on the back and say "nice try". Does that clear things up for you?

 

[Swift]

I too am seeing the wise ways of swift, ledhed. famine and danoff will pull a person in two directions until he has been broken.

That's starting to show in your posts as well. Keep it up 👍

 

[Duke]

Ture...I get the luxury of challanging you with out having to back my side up. In my faith I don't have to prove anything.

To me (dare I say, "to us") that's actually the bad position that you have put yourself in.

 

[Swift]

To me (dare I say, "to us") that's actually the bad position that you have put yourself in.

That depends on point of view. But I can understand what you're saying from both sides.

The main challenge with the scientific side is that the earth is quite literally(as explained in earlier posts) working against them. So to come up with the verifiable, undeniable proof of evolution is not simple task to begin with. Then you've got the planet hiding and destroying fossils. It certainly is something that's tough.

 

[Danoff]

For a scientist everything revolves around proof. If you don't have evidence you only have thoeries.

...buy you, on the otherhand, have nothing.

But scientists don't come up with theories without evidence. I believe they're refered to as hypotheses when you don't have evidence.

For evolution, there is evidence, there is reason, and there is observation all of which point to one story.

You outlined a theory of how it "could" change species, but provided zero evidence that it happened the way you clamed.

Fossil examples of changing species can be found in this thread a while back (posted by me). You can also find examples of primate skeletons that back up the chart I showed earlier which shows the evolution of man. There is quite a lot of evidence provided in this thread alone - but you can also do some digging for yourself and find a lot more.

 

[UnoMOTO]

To me (dare I say, "to us") that's actually the bad position that you have put yourself in.

The very thing that I would use as my backup is just written word to you. You give it no credit therefor could not be used in a debate with you. As you have seen I do not quote the bible for it would not prove anything to you. Faith cannot be seen..heard...or touched. But The faith will be proven to each and every one of us the day we die. Your way or my way it will be complete and 100% proof.

 

[Danoff]

But The faith will be proven to each and every one of us the day we die. Your way or my way it will be complete and 100% proof.

This doesn't help our discussion. Sure, we'll all know when we die. But right now we have to make a choice - that's which this discussion is about, how to make that choice and why.

However, I can tell you what will happen when you die. It's not a big secret, it's common knowedge what it's like to be dead. You actually have experienced death firsthand, so you know exactly what it feels like to be dead. You see, you were dead before you were born. Remember what it was like before you were born? That's what it's like after you die. I see absolutely no reason to think otherwise.

 

[UnoMOTO]

This doesn't help our discussion. Sure, we'll all know when we die. But right now we have to make a choice - that's which this discussion is about, how to make that choice and why.

GRRR...this is beginning to piss me off. I was responding to a post that was not directed at you danoff. It will be up to him to decide weather or not it helps the discussion. Get off your soap box and let some others think for themselves.

 

[Danoff]

GRRR...this is beginning to piss me off.

I suggest you take it easy.

I was responding to a post that was not directed at you danoff.

If you don't want any responses from anyone but the person you're talking to, send him a PM. In the meantime, you're having a public discussion.

It will be up to him to decide weather or not it helps the discussion.

It's up to anyone participating in the discussion.

Get off your soap box and let some others think for themselves.

How am I stopping Duke from thinking for himself?

 

[Swift]

However, I can tell you what will happen when you die. It's not a big secret, it's common knowledge what it's like to be dead. You actually have experienced death firsthand, so you know exactly what it feels like to be dead. You see, you were dead before you were born. Remember what it was like before you were born? That's what it's like after you die. I see absolutely no reason to think otherwise.

Uh, no. You don't remember what it was like before you were born. You don't even remember being born. You or I cannot describe what it feels like to be born. So, I find that statement to be very lacking on either the scientific side or spiritual side.

The only thing we "know" from a scientific standpoint is what we can put our hands on, measure, point to etc. You can't say you know what it's like to be dead as you and I have only known life.

 

[Danoff]

Uh, no. You don't remember what it was like before you were born. You don't even remember being born. You or I cannot describe what it feels like to be born. So, I find that statement to be very lacking on either the scientific side or spiritual side.

Yes it is true that my memory wasn't functioning very well when I was born. But I experienced it (though I can't prove that myself, others can provide evidence that I experienced it). However, I know that I did not experience anything prior to the development of my brain - which is what does the experiencing... and that's my point.

The statement wasn't meant as proof of anything - only a common sense approach to understanding the after-life.

 

[Swift]

Yes it is true that my memory wasn't functioning very well when I was born. But I experienced it (though I can't prove that myself, others can provide evidence that I experienced it). However, I know that I did not experience anything prior to the development of my brain - which is what does the experiencing... and that's my point.

The statement wasn't meant as proof of anything - only a common sense approach to understanding the after-life.

But just because you have no memory of something doesn't mean that it didn't happen. That's what you were saying. "Remember when..." I know you're not trying to prove a thing. I just think it's a statement that has no merit since there are many things that we have don't that we don't remember.

 

[Danoff]

But just because you have no memory of something doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

I agree

That's what you were saying. "Remember when..." I know you're not trying to prove a thing. I just think it's a statement that has no merit since there are many things that we have don't that we don't remember.

Ok, how about something more specific:

The experience that you could not have had before you were born because your brain did not exist to experience them, are the same experiences you will not have after you die because your brain will cease to function and therefore cannot experience them.

Better? It's not nearly as catchy.

 

[ledhed]

Dude I am 48 ...tell me about remembering things....I am riddled with ADD and cant tell you when I pooped last . You want me to remember stuff from when I was born ? I'll tell you what though if i need a reminder I can always go to Hooters or another ..ummm type of "gentlemans " club and see what I think I remember MOST from being a baby ...hows that ...

 

[Pako]

Yes it is true that my memory wasn't functioning very well when I was born. But I experienced it (though I can't prove that myself, others can provide evidence that I experienced it). However, I know that I did not experience anything prior to the development of my brain - which is what does the experiencing... and that's my point.

The statement wasn't meant as proof of anything - only a common sense approach to understanding the after-life.

Sounds like, in part, why I have faith that Jesus died and rose from the dead for my sins so that I can have eternal life which to me, means being closer in his presence.

 

[ledhed]

How can you have any sins unless you commit one ?

 

[Swift]

Ok, how about something more specific:

The experience that you could not have had before you were born because your brain did not exist to experience them, are the same experiences you will not have after you die because your brain will cease to function and therefore cannot experience them.

Better? It's not nearly as catchy.

I guess I'll go with that. I don't believe it, trust it or subscribe to that line of thought. But I can see the logic in it.

 

[kjb]

Everyone is born into sin. Romans 6:23 Says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

 

[ledhed]

Everyone is born into sin. Romans 6:23 Says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

Thats one hell of a marketing plan ! your a member just by being born !

 

[Pako]

Dude I am 48 ...tell me about remembering things....I am riddled with ADD and cant tell you when I pooped last . You want me to remember stuff from when I was born ? I'll tell you what though if i need a reminder I can always go to Hooters or another ..ummm type of "gentlemans " club and see what I think I remember MOST from being a baby ...hows that ...

It's AADD for you. Silly rabbit, ADD is for kids....

 

[Pako]

Thats one hell of a marketing plan ! your a member just by being born !

You can thank Eve for that....

 

[ledhed]

You can thank Eve for that....

Actually shouldn't I thank God for eve ....

 

[Pako]

Actually you should thank God for free will. This is one of Duke's favorite topics..

 

[ledhed]

Actually you should thank God for free will. This is one of Duke's favorite topics..

Hmmm Eve or free will ....talk about temptation ....👍

 

[Pako]

Sorry, must have misunderstood. You get both. The only choice you don't have is the choice of having free will or not.

 

[UnoMOTO]

It sure is nice to see this conversation turn philosophical for a moment.

 

[Pako]

Too much of all that scientific mumbo jumbo makes my teeth hurt. It's good to talk about the important issues once in a while.

Edited: So yeah, I think Creationism should be offered in school as a popular opinion for the origin of life.

 

[Danoff]

The only choice you don't have is the choice of having free will or not.

I forget, did animals get free will too? Or just man?

So yeah, I think Creationism should be offered in school as a popular opinion for the origin of life.

I didn't realize we were in the business of teaching popular opinon in schools.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Like we have already said before, God knew all this would happen yet he still made it. He knew that these events would go down. Yet he still went ahead.