Creation vs. Evolution

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That's my point; however, you and I are thinking of different proofs as well as differences in what one is believing in. Believing God exists and believing God to be onmipotent are not the same. (Also, God allegedly spoke to Adam and Eve, as well as Noah, Moses, Abraham, and a multitude of others in "history"—so it would hardly be precedent if he were to do so today.)

How you described God's decent to earth and how the Bible recorded them with these individuals are quite different.

The argument in this quote is falsely based on the assumption that all religions require an abstraction around which the value and spiritual insight of the religion may be centred and derived from.

I can't think of any religion that doesn't really have that. (Other than paganism I suppose)

What does this even mean? Science—by being scientific—is proof; it's very hard not to get tautological about this, because what you've said is essentially the same as "cats cannot behave like cats".

What it means is science, and what it believes, is only what we currently make it out to be. For example; a while back, we used to believe the earth was flat. Now, we are fairly certain that it is not. (EDIT: Proper example below)
 
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Yes, I know. I suppose that wasn't the best example, but I can think of other examples. Another would be the fact that scientists used to believe that people with terrible sicknesses had "bad blood", and therefore needed to have it sucked out of them via a leach. To a very small extent, they had the right idea, but were still terribly wrong in their procedures.
 
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Faith is given to you by God not by man.

Sorry, but i'm gonna have to call BS. If this were so, there would be no atheists. 👍

The simple fact is that religious faith is just indoctrination/brainwashing at a young age, gullibility and/or denial. :)

Regarding Creation vs. Evolution, they should both be taught. Evolution should be taught in biology like it is currently, since it's the most plausible theory and has a lot of evidence to back it up. There should be a separate class on religion that teaches about all religions in an unbiased and purely factual way. The point of the class would not to be to persuade students to believing any particular religion, but would ideally give them the critical thinking skills required to realize they're all BS.
 
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Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Damn that sound so non-divine. It sounds egoistical. Is sounds HUMAN.

*You must "believe" in me BEFORE you are able to "see" me *

Sorry, but we like to do things the OTHER way:

*We must "see" it BEFORE we "believe" in it*
 
Off topic, but no we did not. The Greeks were more than aware that the Earth was spherical from the 5th and 6th century BC, personally that's a bit more than a 'while back'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Classical_world_2


Scaff

Another interesting fact, before Pythagoras' idea of a spherical Earth, Prometheus described the beginning of the universe the same way we understand it (using cosmic microwave background radiation as proof). Prometheus says the universe was nothingness then started out of chaos, and modern physicist named it the Big Bang.

And to show how forward thinking the ancient Greeks were in terms of evolution vs creation, Anaximander (546bc-610bc) kind of came up with the idea of evolution. This idea was based solely on how helpless human infants are.
 
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orimarc
Damn that sound so non-divine. It sounds egoistical. Is sounds HUMAN.

*You must "believe" in me BEFORE you are able to "see" me *

Sorry, but we like to do things the OTHER way:

*We must "see" it BEFORE we "believe" in it*

No, you must see, not all. That's not faith. nd sadly many are going to hell if they don't believe in god and mAke him their lord and saviour. Eternal punishment in hell vs living eternally with the living god who died for us. He put the blame on himself. That's love!
It really mAkes me think there's a lot of bleep out there who don't believe. Because you have a choice. Send yourself to hell or be saved and everyone who doesn't make god their lord and saviour is choosing to go to hell instead of life.

I know I shouldn't think this way but man people are so bleep sometimes. But that's my old self flesh talking, not the new creation in me.

This is why I hate to argue and fight about god. I get so emotional and angry. But I have my own issues with my emotions and anger. I just hate to see people mAke the wrong choice. And yes everyone will disagree with me bad get on my case. And now I need to stop so I don't get ticked and start judging you all and putting you down. I need to stop even posting online or even talking to certain people about god since I'm so passionate about god I have a hard time controlling my emotions.

Sorry for the bleep words. Truly.

Bye and take care.
 
No, you must see, not all. That's not faith. nd sadly many are going to hell if they don't believe in god and mAke him their lord and saviour. Eternal punishment in hell vs living eternally with the living god who died for us. He put the blame on himself. That's love!

So (quoting George Carlin) if you break God's rules, he'll send you to a place of burning, and fire, and smoke, so you can sweat, and scream, and cry forever and ever, until the end of time, but he loves you?
 
Ok. Last one here.
Yes God loves you. He sent his only son Jesus to die for you so that you don't have to go to hell. He loves you so much that he took the sins of the world forever and placed them on Jesus. This is where faith comes in. We need to come to god by faith and once we do and accept his gift of forgiveness and eternal life then god wipes away every single sin you'll ever commit. This what Jesus died for. Jesus was perfect. He is gods son. So he could be our savior. He put all mankind sin on himself and went to hell for 3 days then rose from the dead. He's god so he can do anything. When I said this is faith I mean we can't know this and understAnd until after we make Jesus our word. I mean understAnd the details which I won't go into. But his love is so much he took the punishment for us so that if we by faith believe and ask him to forgive us, admit we sin and ask him to come into your heart and save you, right then he takes away all your sin you'll ever do and makes you righteous and perfect through Jesus. You won't go to hell. Nothing you do can take away gods love. We have no cue just how much he does love us.

What calling said is a some but also.from a non believer it seems true. We have already broken gods rules. We sin. God sent Jesus and all we have to do is believe by faith and when we mAke him our word and saviour then god takes away all yer sin and washes you clean. Whiter then snow. He removes your sin as if you never sinned. Because Jesus took all sin on himself and died in your place.

It's like you get arrested for robbing someone and the penalty is a fine of a million bucks, or whatever. Now you can't ever pay the fine. The judge finds you guilty and sentences you to life in prison. Now here comes Jesus. He goes to the judge and asks what it will take to get you out of prison. Judge says million bucks. So Jesus pays the judge and now you are free to go.

That how it is with god. His love is so great he sent Jesus to take all our sin and Jesus was punished for us and sent to hell for us. All sin was put on him even though he lived a perfect life. Then god raised him on the 3rd day. He's god so he can do anything. Now that paid our sin debt in full. God knows we can't be perfect so Jesus came for us. All god wants is for us to by faith believe and confess to him we sin and ask him by faith to save you and be your lord. That's is. Were not going to live a perfect life after that. Jesus intercedes for us with god. So whenever we.make a mistake and sin if we yat confess and tell him Jesus says to god, you can't hold that against him because I paid for his sin already. God then let's it.go and.remembers it no more.

But if we don't by faith come to god and make him our lord and savior then we can't be forgiven. God will forgive any sin anyone commits. Anything. So long as Jesus is our lord Nd we confess. Just admit. Because god is holy and perfect he can't be around sin. He hates sin. And if were not saved by Jesus then god can't accept us since we have that sin still. With Jesus its as if we never sinned. Without Jesus he.can't accept us becAuse our sin is with us unless Jesus is our lord and takes it away.

God offers us eternal life in paradise. Heaven. It'll be amazing. And all we have to do is by faith make Jesus your lord. And then he will reveal all to you and you will understand. Without the holy spirit in us we can't understand god or his plan for us.

Anyway sorry for the huge post. Take.care everyone.
 
^ Honestly, the idea of a neo-Nazi murderer getting into heaven because they suddenly accept every word of the Bible as truth instead of an atheist/Buddhist/Muslim/agnostic who was actually a good person just sickens me.
 
And why should I go to hell just because Eve took some apple off a tree 6000 years ago? Why am I burdened with sins I never committed, before I was even born?
 
Even though I consider myself a christian, that whole Adam and Eve story just makes no sense to me, and I therefore dismiss it and assume we were given free will from the get-go.
 
Drift, I agree. But its likely he isn't in heaven. God loves us more then we could ever know.

Boy. I'm not sure if I should go on, but with honest sincere polite questions I kind of want to share.

I don't excpect anyone to believe or change. I'm not perfect and don't know everything. I do have opinion and I know truth in some ways, so I can try. This is off topic now so ill stop after this and if anyone wants to they can pm me.

A lot of what I say won't make sense or is hard to understand without the holy spirit. Also I don't know everything.

When Adam and eve sinned that brought sin into the world. Every person born has sin. This is the without holy spirit we won't understand part. That sin everyone has. Sin nature. So we all sin. We have free will and choice so we choose to sin or not. I understand the question why should I go to hell because of what Adam and eve did. We don't in a way. We sin and that's our choice. I honestly don't know though. But we have a choice to believe and accept gods free gift of forgiveness and eternal life.

Sam, the only way to be a Christian is make Jesus your lord and savior.
 
But we have a choice to believe and accept gods free gift of forgiveness and eternal life.
.
And you have a choice to believe in reality aswell. One word for you mate, D I N O S A U R S . If the earth is only 12,000 years old like your book claims it to be, why is there no mention of dinosaurs? Yet we have physical proof dinosaurs existed, unlike the proof of your book. Think about it?

You think he put fossils here to test your faith?(the usual argument) ... So now god is some prankster playing jokes on you to see if you believe it or not? The story just gets better and better.

So you die right and go to see God, he asks " Did you believe in dinosaurs? "
" Well yeah there were fossils everywhere"
" Flying lizards? Your an idiot that was just a test, your going to hell now"
" (falling to hell through the earth) " ahhhhh but it seemed soo plausible " -
Think about the ridiculous nature of it for just a second.
Language.


Buggsa - Sam, the only way to be a Christian is make Jesus your lord and savior

That's the only way? I thought he had all these gifts of forgiveness and love? I'm pretty sure if he is a forgiveful person he will forgive me for not believing what i can't see.

And if he sends me to a fiery,torturous,dark,hot hole in the earth to suffer for the rest of my eternal life, then he really wasn't that forgiving.
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Buggssa - A lot of what I say won't make sense
- Your talking about christianity, no-one expect's you to make sense or reply to logical posts.
 
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We have free will...

This is not true. Once you get that maybe the idea of God will seem different to you. Also, there has been a lot of anthropomorphism towards God, which is weirder than the belief of free will. :)
 
Bye everyone. Sorry for going off topic. I'm sorry too that I get angry with disagreements. Something I need to work on.

No hard feelings I hope.
 
No reply to my post o ye with faith?

You answered that question yourself as long as you believe your last post was 'logical'.

- Your talking about christianity, no-one expect's you to make sense or reply to logical posts.

Buggs, I'm not sure why you are getting so upset, this is just a thread for conversation, beliefs and ideas. I'm not going to jump into this as the debate does not interest me that much, I just wanted to give you some scriptures that might help in your plight. First Corinthians chapter 2 12-16 👍
 
You answered that question yourself as long as you believe your last post was 'logical'.
:

Instead of just dismissing something as not logical feel free to point out where it wasn't logical...
That usually helps the conversation.

Like your fellow poster you haven't replied to even one of the statements. But like i told him, i don't expect you too.
You can believe whatever makes you happy and gives you strength, just know that reality will be waiting for you with open arms.

When i look for something to worship i look towards the sun, for a start i can see it everyday so that kinda helps things.
It gives me light,food,warmth,hope,flowers,fruits and seasons.
Sun worship is fairly simple, it does not judge, it has no bias, it's visible, there is no mystery, no miracles, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn , and we don't have a special building where we gather once a week to compare clothing.
 
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Instead of just dismissing something as not logical feel free to point out where it wasn't logical...
That usually helps the conversation.

LOL I was simply pointing out you did not expect him to respond but yet later asked him to.

I was not dismissing anything, just making sure you thought your post was logical confirming your not expecting a response.
 
LOL I was simply pointing out you did not expect him to respond but yet later asked him to.

I was not dismissing anything, just making sure you thought your post was logical confirming your not expecting a response.

Fair enough, knowing that the post was constructed with logical thinking doesn't mean i'm not open to a response or not willing to change my point of view on receipt of his response though.

What you will notice though is that no religious person,christian or otherwise will debate the issues raised in the post in question.
 
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What you will notice though is that no religious person,christian or otherwise will debate the issues raised in the post in question.

I'm sure someone will, but in the mean time....

images
 
Arora, thanks so much. I don't remember everything in the book so thanks. I needed that. It's also one thing I've been saying in here too. I appreciate you very much for that. May Jesus truly bless u for reminding me what it says.

I get angry because I am an angry person. Depressed and sad etc. Honestly I get angry sometimes when people disagree with me. Specially when its something I care passionately about like the lord.

What that book says makes me think maybe I shouldn't talk about this with people and not share. But I know I must share in some cases. Hmm.
 
I'm not having a go at you here, bugg1s, but you seem alot more interested in discussing your own religious beliefs and not the topic of this particular thread... indeed, you begun your contributions to this thread by stating:

I don't know what evolution or creationism is to be honest.

Have you read through earlier parts of this thread, or had a chance to read up a bit on what evolution theory is since you made that statement? If not, I ask you why not... if you have had a chance to review the evidence or look at the science of evolution theory, what are your feelings about it?

You may be surprised to know that many (if not most) Christians accept evolution theory, and reject the basic premise of creationism, which suggests that God created all living things as they are today, and as described in Genesis. A viewpoint in between these two is that God invented/set in motion the process of evolution and is/was directing evolution as per his own creative whim. While this compromise position satisfies some people, it begs the question 'where is the evidence of this direction/control?'. One thing is clear, however - and that is, the evidence that evolution is the creative force responsible for the diversity of life on Earth is overwhelmingly compelling, and the lack of evidence for the alternate Creationist viewpoint (that God made everything as described in Genesis) is similarly glaring.

Anyway, while your opinions and posts are welcome, it would be better if you could keep your posts focused on the actual topic of this thread. We do have others threads on religion, and while religion and personal beliefs are obviously relevant to this thread, I for one would like to know what (if any) objections you have to evolution theory and why.
 
Agreed mars. About learning.

Tell me if this is right or not please.

I've always thought when people talk about evolution they mean that there is no god and that from the beginning something appeared out of nowhere then evolved on its own into something which then you repeat that process till you get to humans or something. So I thought it meant no god and things just happened all by themselves.

Creationism I think of what people mean is that god created the heavens and the earth. That god is real and he made the earth and us.
I hear Intelligent design in with creationism that says the universe was created by an intelligent being.

That's my thinking of what both mean. Is this right or not? Cus I don't honestly know if this is what people mean.
 
I've always thought when people talk about evolution they mean that there is no god and that from the beginning something appeared out of nowhere then evolved on its own into something which then you repeat that process till you get to humans or something. So I thought it meant no god and things just happened all by themselves.

Creationism I think of what people mean is that god created the heavens and the earth. That god is real and he made the earth and us.
I hear Intelligent design in with creationism that says the universe was created by an intelligent being.

That's my thinking of what both mean. Is this right or not? Cus I don't honestly know if this is what people mean.

That's pretty close 👍

However, there is one simple point that needs to be stressed as it is massively important, and it's this:

The scientific theory of evolution does not specifically say anything about the existence of God, or His possible role in evolution. It merely reflects the facts of life on Earth as they are observed, and a key observation is that all species alive today show evidence of genetic relatedness, just as children do to their parents, indicating that all life on Earth today ultimately came from a single common source.

The original source of these ancestral lifeforms is a related, but separate, question. Some contend that God must have created life in the first place for evolution to have begun, while others contend that natural processes could have achieved this feat without the need for a divine guiding hand. The same argument also applies to evolution - some contend that it is 'guided' or 'directed' by an intelligent being, while others point to the fact that there is no evidence of this. Either way, the existence of God is an open question, and the existence of evolution doesn't prove the non-existence of God (but nor does it support the idea that God exists either). So, acceptance of evolution need not be equated with atheism, although I do accept that it can (and often does) lead people to question the role, and even the existence, of God.

Creationism, on the other hand, requires a belief in God for any of it to make any sense, and still it doesn't adequately explain what we actually observe (i.e. the relatedness of species) nearly as comprehensively as evolution theory (and indeed, some aspects of creationism actively require you to ignore the facts). Of course, an all powerful creator could presumably have designed species that look like they are related, but that would beg some difficult questions, such as 'why would God do that?', 'does this mean that evidence of genetic relatedness is just an illusion?' and perhaps more interestingly, 'If God could design a web of life in any way He wanted, why did He choose to design life on Earth to look exactly like it has evolved?'.

Many Christians accept evolution, but to do so they must have also accepted that the description of creation as in the Bible cannot be literally correct, but rather is allegorical. This is not a big problem for many Christians, but it is for many others. It is precisely because the facts of evolution contradict a strictly literal intepretation of the Bible that the vast majority of criticisms of evolution are not scientific, but religious. However, it is very important to stress that it is possible to accept evolution and believe in God - even if some churches/religions would rather portray evolution as some kind of atheist conspiracy, and attempt to convince their followers that the facts of evolution are untrue.
 
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Must, resist, getting, sucked, in. :lol:

I've been fascinated by this guys show on PBS over the past year or so and usually try to catch it. Robert Huhn, the show is called 'closer to truth'.

The current production of Closer To Truth, consisting of over 100 episodes for television broadcast and over 1400 web videos, is structured in three series: Cosmos (cosmology, fundamental physics, philosophy of cosmology and physics, emergence, science and religion), Consciousness (brain, mind, free will, personal identity, alien intelligence, parapsychology), and God (philosophy of religion, philosophical theology, critical thinking). Featured are over 125 of the world's leading scientists, philosophers, scholars and thinkers.

http://www.closertotruth.com/robert-lawrence-kuhn

And an interesting pdf at the bottom of that link.

http://www.closertotruth.com/pdf/Why_This_Universe_-_Kuhn_-_Skeptic_Mag_13-2_-_Spring_2007.pdf

His shows are objective and while he is searching for answers he seems to come up with more questions and such.
 
Mars, here's my opinion and belief and why.

I don't know :) lol.

More specifically:

I believe the bible is true and gods word for us. Man wrote it inspired by god himself. I believe god is real and he created the heavens and the earth just like the bible says. No one will know the details though until they are in heaven, must be saved. However even then god may not tell us.

I don't see why not when it comes to evolution. What I mean is god created everything. He set things in motion. Things happen after that possibly on their own and sometimes god intervenes. Just a guess or whatever.

I don't believe that evolution is without god. I don't believe something can appear out of nothing without god speaking it into existence. So if evolution says there is no god and we evolved from nothing into what we are today and what creatures are today etc, I don't believe and agree with that.

God created earth and creatures and animals etc for his own pleasure. He created man to have a relationship with. He made tigers and lions and birds etc. For his pleasure everything was made.

I don't know honestly about evolution except I don't believe it can happen on its own. So if something evolved from something, I spose that's entirely possible. I don't see why not.

Sorry if I kinda went off topic again. I only talked how I know.
 
I believe the bible is true and gods word for us. (...) I believe god is real and he created the heavens and the earth just like the bible says.

I'd like to ask you one simple question about this paragraph (since it represents your point of view and it's the base of your beliefs):

Why do you believe that?

It's an honest question.
 
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