Creation vs. Evolution

[Small_Fryz]

Brilliant post dylansan 👍... I agree with every word.

Exactly my thoughts as well 👍

Very well worded mate.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Yes, very well put indeed.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I concur. A very well thought out post dylansan.

 

[Scaff]

Indeed - a big thumbs up

 

[Dennisch]

Brilliant post dylansan 👍... I agree with every word.

Siggable.

Exactly my thoughts as well 👍

Very well worded mate.

Yes, very well put indeed.

I concur. A very well thought out post dylansan.

Indeed - a big thumbs up

Excellent post. Nominating for post of the year.


And with my feather inserted, Dylansan is now officially a peacock.

 

[Keef]

That was pretty good but by "funding" for science and schools I must assume you mean that a more logical populace would support private funding and charitable donations.

Imagine a party cruising a Kansas country lane at 80, hair blowing in the wind. I'm like that one lonesome tree for 30 miles that it runs into.

 

[Danoff]

 

[hogger129]

Its a big deal now for the folks who are upset about the seperation of church and state , to now try to introduce creation into schools by saying that a " benevolent force ' created the universe . What do you think about creation ? Is it a valid enough premise to be taught in school ?

Who says they're not both true?

 

[wfooshee]

Which is "true" is not the issue. Which can be demonstrated scientifically is the issue. God creating the Earth and the sky and the sun and the animals and the people is a belief, and is not something to be taught as science.

 

[Joel]

Who says they're not both true?

Ah yes, the "God made evolution" response.

The problem is (as has been outlined ad nauseum in this thread) is that there is literally no proper, scientific, peer-reviewed evidence of God as a creator. Zero. Zip. Nada.

 

[niky]

The music is terrible, and the video doesn't show everything, but it's a good, short presentation on vestigial organs and structures in the human body... useless remnants that we have evolved out of using.

Or more accurately, features whose lack did not hinder individual survival and which have been lost or are currently being lost from the species.

 

[Denur]

A good read from Micheal Zimmerman on teaching Creationism in high school: Why battling creationism matters: Learning to question.

One quote:

Even if you don't care about science or science literacy, you should be concerned about what happens when creationism enters the educational arena. Creationism is the embodiment of one single religious worldview. Treating that religious worldview as science privileges one religion over all others. In addition to completely confusing religious and scientific methodology and the purposes of each, it is utterly disrespectful of those who practice a different faith as well as those who practice no faith.

 

[BobK]

Another great quote, from the same article, is this:

Creationists believe that education is about teaching students what to think while those opposed to creationism believe that education is about teaching students how to think.

 

[dylansan]

Unfortunately, even when teaching things that have very little influence from religion, schools tend to teach what to think much more than how to think.

In general, I think there needs to be more of a focus on logic and problem solving in school.

 

[wfooshee]

Yeah, but they're in such a rush to get them the answers to the stuff on the standard state exams, from which funding flows, that nothing else matters.

 

[MK1 MR2 lover]

(witchcraft happens)

Witchcraft indeed.
But seriously, creationists could only possibly describe basic molecular biology like this learned in highschool freshman biology as, you guessed it*****inhale***** witchcraft.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU

Bill Nye really nailed what I think crearionist parents ought to do, let their kids have a choice.

 

[dylansan]

Witchcraft indeed.
But seriously, creationists could only possibly describe basic molecular biology like this learned in highschool freshman biology as, you guessed it*****inhale***** witchcraft.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU

Bill Nye really nailed what I think crearionist parents ought to do, let their kids have a choice.

I'm pretty sure you just quoted a post from the first page.

Which is really bizarre, because I just read that post today for the first time in a very long while.

I know abiogenesis is not part of evolution, but creationists tend to claim it's impossible and thus creation must be true and evolution can't be. So it is worth understanding abiogenesis too, and it's definitely fascinating.

 

[MK1 MR2 lover]

I'm pretty sure you just quoted a post from the first page.

Which is really bizarre, because I just read that post today for the first time in a very long while.

I know abiogenesis is not part of evolution, but creationists tend to claim it's impossible and thus creation must be true and evolution can't be. So it is worth understanding abiogenesis too, and it's definitely fascinating.

I agree it is very interesting, especially how the rna duplicates itself and can evolve like that. Yeah I just thought the witchcraft thing was hysterical haha

 

[homeforsummer]

"Paul Broun: Evolution, Big Bang, 'Lies straight from the pit of Hell'"

And worryingly, he's in a position of power. Even worse, he's a member of the House Science Committee. What exactly is he doing there, if not trying to improve the country's scientific policies?

 

[XoravaX]

The music is terrible, and the video doesn't show everything, but it's a good, short presentation on vestigial organs and structures in the human body... useless remnants that we have evolved out of using.

Or more accurately, features whose lack did not hinder individual survival and which have been lost or are currently being lost from the species.

To add to this, the appendix is not useless as it seemingly has either adapted a new function or then its original function has been understood wrong. It serves as a stronghold for the intestinal bacteria, that during diarrhoea (or such disorder) a sample of the bacteria is preserved to repopulate the intestine (mainly colon, as that is where the most bacteria is) before harmful bacteria get there after the diarrhoea.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008102334.htm


But for the other parts in that video, they have no purpose under current knowledge of the human body.

Oh, and male nipples exist because every part in the human body has an equivalent in both genders, their purpose and appearance might just differ (as eg. in the reproductive system). The nipples can't disappear as then they'd disappear from females too; only way they can seemingly disappear is that they would become more a vestigial structure than currently and grow so small they would be virtually undetectable. They have a purpose in the species, so they're not comparable to the other useless body parts.

"Paul Broun: Evolution, Big Bang, 'Lies straight from the pit of Hell'"

And worryingly, he's in a position of power. Even worse, he's a member of the House Science Committee. What exactly is he doing there, if not trying to improve the country's scientific policies?

Oh Christ. Your religious fundamentalists are mad.
Thankfully such people haven't got a foothold in Europe.

 

[TheDrummingKING]

To add to this, the appendix is not useless as it seemingly has either adapted a new function or then its original function has been understood wrong. It serves as a stronghold for the intestinal bacteria, that during diarrhoea (or such disorder) a sample of the bacteria is preserved to repopulate the intestine (mainly colon, as that is where the most bacteria is) before harmful bacteria get there after the diarrhoea.

Well damn, I've already had mine removed (it almost burst).

 

[Scaff]

Evolution is stupid because we wouldn't lose fur if we adapt to an environment that is changing. It just doesn't make sense. We're also the only animal that walks on two limbs.

Quoted from the 'God' thread as its more relevant here:

 

[hennessey86]

Evolution obviously exists, but whose to say god didn't design us in that way. Surely an almighty being like god would design us to adapt to what ever surroundings we live in. I remember watching a program about the hottest place on earth, a normal person starts over heating within minutes were as the locals can work like we do in our natural environment. I suppose what I am trying to say is that I believe in both.

 

[Scaff]

Evolution obviously exists, but whose to say god didn't design us in that way. Surely an almighty being like god would design us to adapt to what ever surroundings we live in. I remember watching a program about the hottest place on earth, a normal person starts over heating within minutes were as the locals can work like we do in our natural environment. I suppose what I am trying to say is that I believe in both.

Its an interesting idea but one with a number of problems attached to it.

The first being that not a single piece of evidence exists to support it and just as important, at what point did God create us to start evolving?

The evidence that does exist can trace us well back to our shared ancestors (within the genus of hominids) and they look nothing like a 'man in God's image'.

This approach actually raises far more unanswerable questions than evolution alone does.

 

[Touring Mars]

Evolution obviously exists, but whose to say god didn't design us in that way. Surely an almighty being like god would design us to adapt to what ever surroundings we live in. I remember watching a program about the hottest place on earth, a normal person starts over heating within minutes were as the locals can work like we do in our natural environment. I suppose what I am trying to say is that I believe in both.

👍

The only thing I would add to that, without wanting to appear too pedantic, is that your belief in God (and his actions) are your own, and you are entitled to believe whatever you want... whereas the fact that lifeforms on this planet are a product of evolution is something that is true whether or not you believe it, although I for one am always happy to concede that the phrase 'I believe in evolution' is a good thing to say, whether or not belief in evolution is required.

 

[JMoney]

To those who believe God made us, then we evolved into modern humans:

I'm glad you believe in God but it says in Genesis that God made Adam in his own image, so if Adam was an ape than God must look like an ape, and if God is an ape than Jesus must be half ape because Jesus is God's son.

But that's a dumb reason to not believe in evolution.

----

I can disprove evolution with logic. If we started out as monkies, than we lost our fur as we adapted to our changed environment. But why would that happen? We're the only land mammal without fur.

Also, we're the only animal that walks on two limbs...which is less efficient than walking on fours. Why would we adapt and lose an advantage?

Scientists say humans have been around 100,000 years or so. So why in the past 3,000 years have we suddenly become smarter and more civilized. It would make more since if humans were only about 5,000 years old.

----

As for evolution being taught in schools, I say no because too many people believe in the Bible over science. We'll never be able to prove the origin of humans, so we can never teach it. Besides, it doesn't even matter and the knowledge won't help us in the future.

 

[Exorcet]

I can disprove evolution with logic. If we started out as monkies, than we lost our fur as we adapted to our changed environment. But why would that happen? We're the only land mammal without fur.

Scaff already corrected this. I don't see why it's an issue either.

Also, we're the only animal that walks on two limbs...which is less efficient than walking on fours. Why would we adapt and lose an advantage?

To free up our hands so we can build skyscrapers, microscopes, and computers. That's a decent advantage over everything else.

Scientists say humans have been around 100,000 years or so. So why in the past 3,000 years have we suddenly become smarter and more civilized. It would make more since if humans were only about 5,000 years old.

We're as smart as we've been for the past 100,000 years. What's changed is knowledge - or in other words, science.

As for evolution being taught in schools, I say no because too many people believe in the Bible over science. We'll never be able to prove the origin of humans, so we can never teach it. Besides, it doesn't even matter and the knowledge won't help us in the future.

Human origins are already known, the Bible is simply wrong. What people believe does not matter. Schools must teach facts, and evolution is extremely important for medical and biological science.

 

[Touring Mars]

I can disprove evolution with logic.

No, you can't...

If we started out as monkies

We didn't 'start out' as monkeys - humans and present day monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.

we lost our fur as we adapted to our changed environment. But why would that happen?

An open question that science is attempting to answer...

We're the only land mammal without fur.

So? Every species has its own (if not several) specialist attributes... but it doesn't mean to say that we don't (or cannot) have common ancestry...

Also, we're the only animal that walks on two limbs...which is less efficient than walking on fours. Why would we adapt and lose an advantage?

It's clearly not enough of a disadvantage to prevent us from doing what we do... but even so, you say that as if walking on two limbs were the only consideration while it's obviously not. Perhaps having a brain like ours means that it is a bit pointless using all four of our limbs for perambulation when we could be using two (which is more efficient!) for walking, while being able to do something else with the other two at the same time (e.g. texting).

Scientists say humans have been around 100,000 years or so. So why in the past 3,000 years have we suddenly become smarter and more civilized. It would make more since if humans were only about 5,000 years old.

Our recent advances are a consequence of the cumulative effect of thousands of years of social interaction - social interaction that was not possible when the human population was considerably lower and more geographically dispersed than it is now.

FYI - with this in mind, there is no evidence at all that humans are more intelliegent than they were tens of thousands of years ago. Intelligence does not equate to knowledge... even the finest minds of ancient Egypt could not have conceived some of the information that even the thickest idiot takes for granted today - that does not make them any less intelligent.

We'll never be able to prove the origin of humans, so we can never teach it.

BS. We've already proved beyond all reasonable doubt that our origins lie in the dim and distant past via billions of years of evolution. Not only that, but science has (forever and irrevocably) disproved competing hypotheses for which no evidence was ever forthcoming. So why teach evolution? Because it is the truth... and that will ALWAYS matter.

 

[wfooshee]

Also, we're the only animal that walks on two limbs...which is less efficient than walking on fours. Why would we adapt and lose an advantage?

How is the ability to carry something (rock, spear, fishing tackle, fish, apple, knife, bow, M16, iPhone) and use it, while walking, not an advantage?

 

[Crispy]

I don't get why a lot of religious people still just can't wake up to see the facts that evolution is real and their religion was wrong. It's not the end of the world if God didn't create the world in seven days, nor were we created. Hell, most religious people I know realize that evolution is real. They still believe in God. The Bible wasn't written by God himself, but by a third person source, so obviously they wouldn't have gotten everything right. Plus it's a religion, it's no different then the Greek gods. There is no difference. But that's for another thread.

We also didn't evolve from monkeys, rather we were both ancestors and monkeys and humans split.

Also humans have been around for millions of years, modern humans have only been around for about 100,000 years though.