Creation vs. Evolution

[Dennisch]

With this: We're now beating a dead horse.

A bit of light hearted banter to keep things friendly and social doesn't hurt anyone.

 

[Com Fox]

A bit of light hearted banter to keep things friendly and social doesn't hurt anyone.

True but this feels dragged on already for some reason.

 

[DCP]

Just as long as you don't try to get us banned for going off topic.

Gents seriously, no disrespect was ever intended. I've become a person not ashamed of the gospel, and more importantly Jesus Christ.
I respect your views etc, and understand were you guys are coming from.
Just remember though that there is a God who loves you, like a father loves his son, and more.
Your evidence is faith. Every man has that, but it's up to each man to choose whether to use it or not.

 

[Dennisch]

Your evidence is faith.

There isn't a single shred of evidence in faith.
You fail to grasp the meaning of the word evidence, and thus failing to understand how science works.

At least try to listen and understand what is being said to you, instead of dismissing it as nonsense because you don't understand it.

Pay attention, you might become a better person because of it.

 

[Dotini]

Science is inherently amoral. It can be used for good or bad.

A belief in love, even without evidence, is a higher priority and a higher truth than the quest for knowledge.

 

[dylansan]

Just as long as you don't try to get us banned for going off topic.

Gents seriously, no disrespect was ever intended. I've become a person not ashamed of the gospel, and more importantly Jesus Christ.
I respect your views etc, and understand were you guys are coming from.
Just remember though that there is a God who loves you, like a father loves his son, and more.
Your evidence is faith. Every man has that, but it's up to each man to choose whether to use it or not.

That's great and all, but I don't understand why you've continued to ignore what should be really easy questions. Until you can tell me how evolution was able to predict the discovery of many fossils, I have no choice but to assume you have no explanation. Which leaves the obvious explanation, that evolution is actually true, just like gravity.

 

[Dennisch]

Religion is inherently amoral. It can be used for good or bad.

A belief in love, even without evidence, is a higher priority than devotion to knowledge.

 

[DCP]

There isn't a single shred of evidence in faith.
You fail to grasp the meaning of the word evidence, and thus failing to understand how science works.

At least try to listen and understand what is being said to you, instead of dismissing it as nonsense because you don't understand it.

Pay attention, you might become a better person because of it.

Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.
Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?
Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

Do you think I showed them truth and honesty because of understanding science, or because of learning the importance of being honest.?

You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science. Forget that.
Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward. Mine became Christ, even when He was the last thing on my plate at one time. Not science. I enjoyed science while it lasted, yes.

 

[Com Fox]

Just remember though that there is a God who loves you, like a father loves his son, and more.

That line always annoys me. I had the same message on me at Dueling Network; It feels like you're still trying to make believe in something I don't remember. It's like if I said "Just remember, the Universe was created by a thing called The Big Bang"

 

[Dotini]

I agree that neither science nor religion should be worshipped. The truth to be sought is in your loving relationships with your family and friends.

 

[Dennisch]

because it did nothing for me.

Are you connected to the Internet through a bible?

You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science. Forget that.

Sigh.

 

[Com Fox]

I agree that neither science nor religion should be worshipped. The truth to be sought is in your loving relationships with your family and friends.

What if you don't have that either .

I don't think many of us "Worship" Science, I think it's just accepting it's there an move on with their lives and is only brought up in discussions like this.

 

[Dotini]

What if you don't have that either .

That's too bad, if true. If you lack a loving relationship with family and friends, then you lack the best and most important part of being human.

 

[DQuaN]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of this thread is. There is nothing to debate. Nothing to argue.

Evolution is fact. Creationism is false. It is fairy tales and nonsense. That's it. End of discussion.


Evolution - Fact.
2+2=4 - Fact.



Creationism - False.
3+3=hippopotamus - False.

 

[Com Fox]

That's too bad, if true. If you lack a loving relationship with family and friends, then you lack the best and most important part of being human.

It wasn't serious with the question, I don't have any tension or no feelings towards my family and friends.

 

[Dotini]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of this thread is.

People take great joy in getting together to lie, joke and insult one another. It makes us feel better.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.
Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?
Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

Do you think I showed them truth and honesty because of understanding science, or because of learning the importance of being honest.?

You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science. Forget that.
Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward. Mine became Christ, even when He was the last thing on my plate at one time. Not science. I enjoyed science while it lasted, yes.

So if science doesn't help with your business at all, I assume you are running it from the middle of a field and finding clients by asking random people you happen to cone across? It's not like you can use a phone, a building, paper, pens, etc. in fact I'm srtuggling to think of what business can possibly be run without any tie to science.

 

[dylansan]

Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.
Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?
Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

Do you think I showed them truth and honesty because of understanding science, or because of learning the importance of being honest.?

You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science. Forget that.
Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward. Mine became Christ, even when He was the last thing on my plate at one time. Not science. I enjoyed science while it lasted, yes.

Acting a certain way because it's useful in your life is one thing. Denying that something is true because it doesn't make your life better is quite another. I imagine you'd be quite confused if someone told you they didn't accept that 2 + 2 was 4 because math wasn't important to them. And then told you you only believed 2 + 2 was 4 because you were seeing what you want to see.

That said, I honestly don't think prayer or religion was required to start your business at all. Plenty of atheists run businesses. Plenty of atheists are humble. In fact, I suspect it's easier to be humble when you know the universe is enormous and you are a small piece of it, then when you think you were created in the image of an all powerful being...

As far as being honest, when that website you posted lied about what people said, was that because they learned honesty from their faith? When someone told you evolutionists believed ducks turned into crocodiles, was that lie due to their faithful honesty?

How about the fact that the goal of science is to find the truth regardless of what is convenient or helpful in everyday life? You can deny science if you want. But you can't also claim that you care about truth and honesty, when you have to ignore truth in order to do so.

 

[DQuaN]

Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.

It does EVERYTHING for you.

It helps keep your food fresh. It allows you to use a computer to post these messages. It carries you to work or school. It can even carry you to the other side of the world! It cures you when you are sick. It warms you when you are cold. It cools you when you are hot. It protects you from the Sun. It purifies your water. And I'm not even scratching the surface here.

It is the only reason your have the life you have.

 

[Dotini]

It does EVERYTHING for you.

Citation required

It protects you from the Sun.

The magnetosphere does that. Is the sun is less vital to life than science?

It is the only reason your have the life you have.

Complete and utter twaddle.

 

[GBO Possum]

evolution is actually true, just like gravity.

Or even "evolution is only a theory, just like gravity" . Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?
Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

Is it just me who would run a mile from someone who thinks that his praying and fasting would encourage me to trust and rely on him? For some reason, I am more prone to trust people who have a firm grip on reality.

 

[DQuaN]

Citation required

That was kind of the point of everything in the following paragraph...

The magnetosphere does that. Is the sun is less vital to life than science?

Ah yes, thanks to the magnetosphere I can spend as long in the sun as I like without getting burned or risking cancer...

Less vital than science? What are you talking about?

Complete and utter twaddle.

How so? The quality of life we all enjoy is thanks to the advancements in science.

 

[DCP]

Acting a certain way because it's useful in your life is one thing. Denying that something is true because it doesn't make your life better is quite another. I imagine you'd be quite confused if someone told you they didn't accept that 2 + 2 was 4 because math wasn't important to them. And then told you you only believed 2 + 2 was 4 because you were seeing what you want to see.

That said, I honestly don't think prayer or religion was required to start your business at all. Plenty of atheists run businesses. Plenty of atheists are humble. In fact, I suspect it's easier to be humble when you know the universe is enormous and you are a small piece of it, then when you think you were created in the image of an all powerful being...

As far as being honest, when that website you posted lied about what people said, was that because they learned honesty from their faith? When someone told you evolutionists believed ducks turned into crocodiles, was that lie due to their faithful honesty?

How about the fact that the goal of science is to find the truth regardless of what is convenient or helpful in everyday life? You can deny science if you want. But you can't also claim that you care about truth and honesty, when you have to ignore truth in order to do so.

You said the word true. It's very different to theory, calculations or assumptions.
If science is showing us truth, then I'm all for it. Showing us that a tree needs O2, is great science. Great discovery.
Telling me we came from something 14-20 billion years ago is way beyond fantasy, sorry.

Tell me, using science, why didn't I get the chance to start a business 2 years ago, when all i wanted was to treble my salary, extend my house, and drive a fancy car?
Can science tell me why this is now a reality, yet the last thing I want is fancy things? Science can never answer that. I'm not talking about others by the way. There are tons of good people I agree. Most of it is due to good parenting, or changes in their lives.

How do you know that website was lies. Since you disagree with it, while others would agree with it, doesn't make it a lie. It just fits your world view, which is perfectly understandable.

It does EVERYTHING for you.

It helps keep your food fresh. It allows you to use a computer to post these messages. It carries you to work or school. It can even carry you to the other side of the world! It cures you when you are sick. It warms you when you are cold. It cools you when you are hot. It protects you from the Sun. It purifies your water. And I'm not even scratching the surface here.

It is the only reason your have the life you have.

Well I was born in 79. As you can understand, South Africa, a 3rd world country, I lived a perfectly happy life.
I only saw a computer or cellphone in the 90s. Trust me, it made no difference to my life growing up at all.
As for keeping food cold, growing up with technology really has nothing to do with me. People lived perfectly fine 100 or 200 years ago. Only violence and war has never stopped. It's never stopped since Cain and Abel, if you believe the scriptures.

Yoh gents, how does this start all over again. You'll love mocking me or what...
Again, I'm 36 years old, and been through and seen allot in life, like most of you, but seriously, science has nothing more to offer me. There is this thing called load shedding here, and they switch off our power for 3 hours, sometimes twice a day. It doesn't affect us anymore.
Some guys will get withdrawal symptoms if their internet went off for 5 minutes...

 

[DQuaN]

You said the word true. It's very different to theory, calculations or assumptions.

Wow. How many times does this have to be explained to you?

 

[dylansan]

How do you know that website was lies. Since you disagree with it, while others would agree with it, doesn't make it a lie. It just fits your world view, which is perfectly understandable.

It's not a matter of my world view. They lied about what people said.

Here's an example:

List of GTPlanet members who don't believe in God:

It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.

 

[GBO Possum]

You said the word true. It's very different to theory, calculations or assumptions.

One more time, let's revisit the word "theory". The evolutionists in this thread typically use it in its scientific meaning, rather than the way the under-educated or "lay" public use it.

The link below describes it:-

"The way that scientists use the word 'theory' is a little different than how it is commonly used in the lay public," said Jaime Tanner, a professor of biology at Marlboro College. "Most people use the word 'theory' to mean an idea or hunch that someone has, but in science the word 'theory' refers to the way that we interpret facts."​

It goes on to say

"Every scientific theory starts as a hypothesis. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a hypothesis is an idea that hasn't been proven yet. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step — known as a theory — in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."​

The key is that a "theory" is accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

That's about as "true" as science gets. The bad thing about the word "true" is that there is no wiggle room. Science always accepts that a "theory" may not provide a full explanation of a phenomenon at any point in time, and it may need to be revised, updated, refined and so on. That's the journey to knowledge.

Contrast this with creationist dogma which ignores evidence and promotes a book full of inconsistencies and inaccurate claims as the source of "truth".

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

 

[DQuaN]

@DCP

Read this.

Then read it again.

Just for good measure. Read it a third time.

One more time, let's revisit the word "theory". The evolutionists in this thread typically use it in its scientific meaning, rather than the way the under-educated or "lay" public use it.

The link below describes it:-

"The way that scientists use the word 'theory' is a little different than how it is commonly used in the lay public," said Jaime Tanner, a professor of biology at Marlboro College. "Most people use the word 'theory' to mean an idea or hunch that someone has, but in science the word 'theory' refers to the way that we interpret facts."​

It goes on to say

"Every scientific theory starts as a hypothesis. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a hypothesis is an idea that hasn't been proven yet. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step — known as a theory — in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."​

The key is that a "theory" is accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

That's about as "true" as science gets. The bad thing about the word "true" is that there is no wiggle room. Science always accepts that a "theory" may not provide a full explanation of a phenomenon at any point in time, and it may need to be revised, updated, refined and so on. That's the journey to knowledge.

Contrast this with creationist dogma which ignores evidence and promotes a book full of inconsistencies and inaccurate claims as the source of "truth".

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

 

[Exorcet]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of this thread is. There is nothing to debate. Nothing to argue.

No one is born knowing everything, and no one is free from deception. You'll always have someone who genuinely doesn't know.

I don't even make that much of people clinging tightly to what they prefer to be true rather than what is true, I've been guilty of that before, only later realizing what I was doing wrong. It happens.

Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.

That doesn't make sense.

Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?

I strongly doubt that fasting and prayer did much. If they did anything it would be psychological. As for science helping you with starting a business, well you'd probably need to understand how the particular business works and how to interact with people. That's certainly within the realm of science.

Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

What you did was take your knowledge of how people work and applied it to meet your needs. This is how human interaction works.

You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science.

I think it's more along the lines of we see you not understanding what science is or how it works. The very often used "us vs them" mentality is a strong indication. Science doesn't care what the Bible claims to be, it has nothing to do with humans rebelling from god(s). It's simply us admitting we don't know a lot and sincerely looking for knowledge. Since we're sincere about it, we can't waste time believing in fraud. The Bible, from every indication so far, is a fraud (or at the very least, ignorant). It's an unfortunate truth in the eyes of theists, but that doesn't change the case.

Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward.

Meaning in unnecessary, though of course you can always give yourself such a thing.

Mine became Christ, even when He was the last thing on my plate at one time. Not science. I enjoyed science while it lasted, yes.

This doesn't matter. You may find meaning in religion, but that changes nothing about science. What is true remains true. You don't even have to give up religion to accept science (proof is in that you accept science already since you've been making use of it every single time you posted). It's not a contest that science is trying to win, the supernatural simply doesn't matter when it comes to reality.

 

[GBO Possum]

 

[MatskiMonk]

It is the only reason your have the life you have.

Complete and utter twaddle.

How so? The quality of life we all enjoy is thanks to the advancements in science.

@DQuaN I think you wrong for saying "Only", which I bolded. On a certain level I know what you are saying, but the actions and words of people play a significant part in meaningful quality of life, not always just the things that are around us. Also there are a lot of downsides to the advancements in mankind's scientific knowledge.