Creation vs. Evolution

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DCP
Though you don't understand. It is nonsense to me, because it did nothing for me.
That's as far as it goes.
Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding science did that, or my prayer and fasting?
Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding science, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?

Science quite literally means knowledge.

Lets try re-writing a few of your choice phrases with that literal translation of the word.

"Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding knowledge did that, or my prayer and fasting?"
I'm going to go for knowledge here, as not proven outcome has ever been shown for prayer and fasting is simply going to make you hungry.

"Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding knowledge, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?"
Yep I'm going to go for knowledge again, a humble man who knows nothing about a business area is useless

"Do you think I showed them truth and honesty because of understanding Knowledge, or because of learning the importance of being honest.?"
Again knowledge is going to win out on this one. I do however like the inference that one can't be honest without religion, explain how that works for me again given your dishonesty about stating I would kill myself?

DCP
You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science.
You don't even understand science yet, let alone be in a position to state what we think about it, and yet you claim to be humble?


DCP
Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward. Mine became Christ, even when He was the last thing on my plate at one time. Not science. I enjoyed science while it lasted, yes.
When did science end? I didn't get that memo!
 
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@DQuaN I think you wrong for saying "Only", which I bolded. On a certain level I know what you are saying, but the actions and words of people play a significant part in meaningful quality of life, not always just the things that are around us. Also there are a lot of downsides to the advancements in mankind's scientific knowledge.

I see your point. But it is the only reason we have medicine, vehicles, refrigerators, heaters, air con, water purification, etc, etc, etc.
 
DCP
You keep thinking that I don't understand what you guys think of science.

Because you don't.

Something needs to add meaning in a persons life going forward.

Why is that, exactly? A lot of people would like something to add meaning to their lives, but I don't see that it's necessary that something exists purely to do that.

Evolution - Fact.
2+2=4 - Fact.

To be fair, these things are not equivalent.

2+2=4 is true by definition, we created arbitrary mathematical rules under which that statement is absolutely true. It so happens that those mathematical rules are incredibly useful in the analysis and description of things in our universe, but it should be remembered that mathematical statements like that are true because the rules were chosen to make them so. By using those rules, 2+2=4 can never be false.

Evolution is factual in the sense that it's the best available explanation for the evidence that has been observed. It's possible that it could be wrong, although at this point it is incredibly unlikely. But the fact remains that there are possible observations that would refute evolution, which is what makes it science. If there were no possible observations that could refute it, then it would be a belief system.

A factual theory is not the same as a factual definition.

The magnetosphere does that. Is the sun is less vital to life than science?

I don't know what the UV is like where you live, but down here if you're a white person and you want to go outside for any length of time without turning pink you need sunscreen.

Developed by pasty white scientists, for pasty white scientists. ;)
 
Sometimes I wonder what the point of this thread is. There is nothing to debate. Nothing to argue.

Evolution is fact. Creationism is false. It is fairy tales and nonsense. That's it. End of discussion.


Evolution - Fact.
2+2=4 - Fact.



Creationism - False.
3+3=hippopotamus - False.

The beauty of the sole soul. It has it's own opinion, and it's own destiny.
Here, lets try again:
Since it contradicts those you follow, it becomes a problem for you. The only way to deal with it, is tell yourself creation is wrong. You entitled to do so, any and every time....:)


Wow. How many times does this have to be explained to you?

As many times until you actually show the truth. Origin of life and the big bang is still just a theory, which most of the guys here were honest to admit "WE DONT KNOW YET", which is good enough, because they think the answers will be coming tomorrow, or next year, or next millennium, or perhaps never. Each man to his own who is prepared to wait.

Check that video. How do clams remain closed, and end up being found on mount Everest?
How does one explain a fossil fish, eating another fish?
How does one explain why even for millions of years, those fossils look exactly the same today?
Like I said before, evolution is just another religion, and man uses the creation to support it.

It's not a matter of my world view. They lied about what people said.

Here's an example:

List of GTPlanet members who don't believe in God:

There are billions of Christians, and the bible is the most sold book in the world.
If GTP's opinions make you feel good about not believing in God, then wow is all I can say.

One more time, let's revisit the word "theory". The evolutionists in this thread typically use it in its scientific meaning, rather than the way the under-educated or "lay" public use it.

The link below describes it:-

"The way that scientists use the word 'theory' is a little different than how it is commonly used in the lay public," said Jaime Tanner, a professor of biology at Marlboro College. "Most people use the word 'theory' to mean an idea or hunch that someone has, but in science the word 'theory' refers to the way that we interpret facts."

It goes on to say

"Every scientific theory starts as a hypothesis. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a hypothesis is an idea that hasn't been proven yet. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step — known as a theory — in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."

The key is that a "theory" is accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

That's about as "true" as science gets. The bad thing about the word "true" is that there is no wiggle room. Science always accepts that a "theory" may not provide a full explanation of a phenomenon at any point in time, and it may need to be revised, updated, refined and so on. That's the journey to knowledge.

Contrast this with creationist dogma which ignores evidence and promotes a book full of inconsistencies and inaccurate claims as the source of "truth".

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

Fits perfectly in the "science" world, doesn't it?

No one is born knowing everything, and no one is free from deception. You'll always have someone who genuinely doesn't know.

I don't even make that much of people clinging tightly to what they prefer to be true rather than what is true, I've been guilty of that before, only later realizing what I was doing wrong. It happens.


That doesn't make sense.



I strongly doubt that fasting and prayer did much. If they did anything it would be psychological. As for science helping you with starting a business, well you'd probably need to understand how the particular business works and how to interact with people. That's certainly within the realm of science.


What you did was take your knowledge of how people work and applied it to meet your needs. This is how human interaction works.


I think it's more along the lines of we see you not understanding what science is or how it works. The very often used "us vs them" mentality is a strong indication. Science doesn't care what the Bible claims to be, it has nothing to do with humans rebelling from god(s). It's simply us admitting we don't know a lot and sincerely looking for knowledge. Since we're sincere about it, we can't waste time believing in fraud. The Bible, from every indication so far, is a fraud (or at the very least, ignorant). It's an unfortunate truth in the eyes of theists, but that doesn't change the case.


Meaning in unnecessary, though of course you can always give yourself such a thing.


This doesn't matter. You may find meaning in religion, but that changes nothing about science. What is true remains true. You don't even have to give up religion to accept science (proof is in that you accept science already since you've been making use of it every single time you posted). It's not a contest that science is trying to win, the supernatural simply doesn't matter when it comes to reality.

Unless a business is passed down from the family generation, it is not an easy thing to start up.
You know, there are lots of factors involved, and to consider every time. One of them is fear of failing.
That was one of the reasons why I never considered it before. Ask yourself, what changed.
There are things that took place which one would never believe. I believe these things happened because for once in my life, I put God to the test. A story to be told face to face.

Science quite literally means knowledge.

Lets try re-writing a few of your choice phrases with that literal translation of the word.

"Tell me, I'm starting my own business next month. Do you think understanding knowledge did that, or my prayer and fasting?"
I'm going to go for knowledge here, as not proven outcome has ever been shown for prayer and fasting is simply going to make you hungry.

"Do you think I gained the trust of clients because of understanding knowledge, or because I learnt how to humble myself, so that my clients could see that they could rely on me, and trust me?"
Yep I'm going to go for knowledge again, a humble man who knows nothing about a business area is useless

"Do you think I showed them truth and honesty because of understanding Knowledge, or because of learning the importance of being honest.?"
Again knowledge is going to win out on this one. I do however like the inference that one can't be honest without religion, explain how that works for me again given your dishonesty about stating I would kill myself?


You don't even understand science yet, let alone be in a position to state what we think about it, and yet you claim to be humble?



When did science end? I didn't get that memo!

Science had nothing to do with it. How did businesses flourish a 1000 years ago?
The telephone, pen and calculator are inventions by men gifted with talent and wisdom. A personal drive to change the world.
God says He would use the heathen to bless His people. Why isn't that so true, as most of these inventors didn't believe in Christ...:)

@Scaff

It doesn't take knowledge only, to start a business. What about courage, belief that it's going to work, and off course trustworthy people. To make it easy to understand, it is a Freight Forwarding Company.
A stall selling cell phones and covers is easy. Not a lot of planning. It takes knowledge to set up your stall to attract customers though.

Science never end for it's followers, no.
It's ended for me, because whatever they discover next, it's already been revealed by the Creator.
I'm just hoping to see more bigger and beautiful galaxies though, and perhaps more of those planets that don't have orbits. When is the next telescope due to be launched? I know the Vatican has one and they named it Lucifer...:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope
See, for me, it's satan setting up his plan, for his 3 and 1/2 year reign. To you guys, it's just another telescope.
 
Dotini
Is the sun is less vital to life than science?
I think we're splitting hairs here a tad - obviously there are physical aspects of the universe that have made our lives possible, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is not what DQuaN meant by his post about science meaning everything to us. If not for science - the method by which we advance our collective knowledge - nobody on this forum would be able to do what they are doing today. The fact that some people don't appreciate this is pretty sad (and pretty embarrassing to be frank), but it is not all that surprising given the sheer number of well-organized and well-funded groups who seem intent on denouncing science as an inferior method of understanding the universe as compared to an unquestioning belief in a religious text (whichever one that may be), and, as evinced by this thread all too often, there is a ready supply of existing and potential future ignorance, willful or otherwise, to be exploited.

Fortunately, science does not require anyone to believe it for it be correct or for it to work. One can happily live one's life not understanding anything about chemistry, physics, biology, electronics, etc. .... you don't need to be a computer scientist to operate a laptop. BUT, it is another matter entirely to do so while denouncing as 'meaningless' or 'nonsense' the methods by which those who design and build computers, especially when one personally knows absolutely nothing about the subjects involved. And worst still, not only denouncing science but expecting others to accept that one's personal beliefs on subject are somehow more meaningful and less nonsensical.

The same goes for the origin of mankind. It is one thing to not understand evolution theory or even science generally - most people don't know much science, and one must expend time and effort to learn these things. But it is quite another to denounce science as meaningless while reaping the benefits of it every minute of every day, while at the same time spouting unsubstantiated claims as if they were fact. The Bible tells us the first man was made from dust and the first woman was made from a rib from the first man - neither claim is supported by any physical evidence, lest you consider sentences in a book as physical evidence. Science tells us that there was in fact no such thing as a 'first man' or 'first woman', because humankind formed gradually from a species that, if it existed today, would be considered non-human - the evidence is in the genes of every human on Earth and in the genes of similar species. So which version is more nonsensical?
 
DCP
The beauty of the sole soul. It has it's own opinion, and it's own destiny.
Here, lets try again:
Since it contradicts those you follow, it becomes a problem for you. The only way to deal with it, is tell yourself creation is wrong. You entitled to do so, any and every time....:)




As many times until you actually show the truth. Origin of life and the big bang is still just a theory, which most of the guys here were honest to admit "WE DONT KNOW YET", which is good enough, because they think the answers will be coming tomorrow, or next year, or next millennium, or perhaps never. Each man to his own who is prepared to wait.

Check that video. How do clams remain closed, and end up being found on mount Everest?
How does one explain a fossil fish, eating another fish?
How does one explain why even for millions of years, those fossils look exactly the same today?
Like I said before, evolution is just another religion, and man uses the creation to support it.



There are billions of Christians, and the bible is the most sold book in the world.
If GTP's opinions make you feel good about not believing in God, then wow is all I can say.



Fits perfectly in the "science" world, doesn't it?



Unless a business is passed down from the family generation, it is not an easy thing to start up.
You know, there are lots of factors involved, and to consider every time. One of them is fear of failing.
That was one of the reasons why I never considered it before. Ask yourself, what changed.
There are things that took place which one would never believe. I believe these things happened because for once in my life, I put God to the test. A story to be told face to face.



Science had nothing to do with it. How did businesses flourish a 1000 years ago?
The telephone, pen and calculator are inventions by men gifted with talent and wisdom. A personal drive to change the world.
God says He would use the heathen to bless His people. Why isn't that so true, as most of these inventors didn't believe in Christ...:)

@Scaff

It doesn't take knowledge only, to start a business. What about courage, belief that it's going to work, and off course trustworthy people. To make it easy to understand, it is a Freight Forwarding Company.
A stall selling cell phones and covers is easy. Not a lot of planning. It takes knowledge to set up your stall to attract customers though.

Science never end for it's followers, no.
It's ended for me, because whatever they discover next, it's already been revealed by the Creator.
I'm just hoping to see more bigger and beautiful galaxies though, and perhaps more of those planets that don't have orbits. When is the next telescope due to be launched? I know the Vatican has one and they named it Lucifer...:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope
See, for me, it's satan setting up his plan, for his 3 and 1/2 year reign. To you guys, it's just another telescope.

I stopped watching the video after they kept saying "Believe". Believing is not actual support to a claim.

Your saying follow as in we worship Evolution, like we follow it set like Creationist with there Prays and going to Churchs. Didn't we already discuss that Evolution and Atheism is not a Belief and Religion.

Science had nothing to do with it. How did businesses flourish a 1000 years ago?
You got to be bloody kidding me :lol:
 
DCP
It doesn't take knowledge only, to start a business. What about courage, belief that it's going to work, and off course trustworthy people. To make it easy to understand, it is a Freight Forwarding Company.
A stall selling cell phones and covers is easy. Not a lot of planning. It takes knowledge to set up your stall to attract customers though.
Good job I didn't say it only requires knowledge then it was you that said knowledge (science) wasn't required.

Oh and give going to a bank for funding with a business plan that states "don't worry I have courage and belief" a go.

DCP
Science never end for it's followers, no.
It's ended for me, .........
Knowledge has ended for you?

Explain how that's going to work?



DCP
because whatever they discover next, it's already been revealed by the Creator.
I'm just hoping to see more bigger and beautiful galaxies though, and perhaps more of those planets that don't have orbits. When is the next telescope due to be launched?
Except you can't actually back that claim up with anything.

DCP
I know the Vatican has one and they named it Lucifer...:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope

No its not.... http://vaticanobservatory.org/vo-ne...s-archive/vatican-lucifer/515-vatican-lucifer

You see that's what happens when you give up on knowledge, you post nonsense as if its fact.
 
DCP
Here, lets try again:

No, not science. Factually incorrect. Proves/Disproves nothing.

DCP
As many times until you actually show the truth. Origin of life and the big bang is still just a theory,

No! NONONONONONO!!!

Did you read what GBO Possum posted? The one that I told you to read, re-read and read again?

You have no understanding of science. Ziltch. Nada.

Until you do, your arguments are meaningless.

DCP
It's ended for me, because whatever they discover next, it's already been revealed by the Creator.

Really? Are we going to get hoverboards? Will we ever cure cancer or aids? When will we set up a permanent colony on Mars?
 
*What if the religion actually encourages scienific research, therefore those who doesnt remains ignorant and get a sin, irony at its finest*

I mean, apreciation to god means do something better for you and other people, not living on the delutional world thinking they are go to heaven if they pray 24/7.

Even Jesus is formerly a sheperd.
 
No, not science. Factually incorrect. Proves/Disproves nothing.



No! NONONONONONO!!!

Did you read what GBO Possum posted? The one that I told you to read, re-read and read again?

You have no understanding of science. Ziltch. Nada.

Until you do, your arguments are meaningless.



Really? Are we going to get hoverboards? Will we ever cure cancer or aids? When will we set up a permanent colony on Mars?
I'm waiting for the bit in the Bible that tells us how to harness nuclear fusion.
 
DCP
whatever they discover next, it's already been revealed by the Creator.
This sentence makes me wonder what people like you believe scientists and other scholars are doing, and why there is even knowledge to be discovered in the first place? Why would a Creator make us dumb? Or why would a Creator make us capable of knowledge but hide knowledge from us, or worse still, forbid us from having it? There's an endless queue of such questions, all of them awkward, and none with an answer more convincing than 'Maybe there isn't a Creator'.

This line of thinking belittles human capability and achievement.
 
DCP
There are billions of Christians, and the bible is the most sold book in the world.
If GTP's opinions make you feel good about not believing in God, then wow is all I can say.
What on Earth are you talking about?

The link you posted lied about what people said. There is no opinion involved. Heck, even if your link were in favor of evolution, I would point it out if it misquoted people.

Why did that link misquote people? Don't answer by talking about opinion. Scaff already showed you that one of the quotes that supposedly debunks evolution, is actually in favor of evolution if you read the whole thing. So why did they include it on that website?
 
I stopped watching the video after they kept saying "Believe". Believing is not actual support to a claim.

Your saying follow as in we worship Evolution, like we follow it set like Creationist with there Prays and going to Churchs. Didn't we already discuss that Evolution and Atheism is not a Belief and Religion.


You got to be bloody kidding me :lol:

Round and round the garden.....:)


The plot thickens........http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
What do you do in an atheist church..??

Watch from 12:50. You have a good sense of humour if you don't take offence.





"Scaff, post: 10619662, member: 15439"]Good job I didn't say it only requires knowledge then it was you that said knowledge (science) wasn't required.

Oh and give going to a bank for funding with a business plan that states "don't worry I have courage and belief" a go.

Would you believe me if I told you I wasn't financed at all by the bank? Now that is faith.
Can I add that for the first time in my life, I paid my tithe faithfully, after years of ignoring people around me. What the church does with it, doesn't bother me. It's me and God and his promises that matter.


Knowledge has ended for you?
Explain how that's going to work?

Yeah, the one that the scientists use for it's followers...:)





Except you can't actually back that claim up with anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope

No its not.... http://vaticanobservatory.org/vo-ne...s-archive/vatican-lucifer/515-vatican-lucifer

You see that's what happens when you give up on knowledge, you post nonsense as if its fact.[/QUOTE]

Your link, my link, doesn't really belong to us. The power of deception is at large.

No, not science. Factually incorrect. Proves/Disproves nothing.



No! NONONONONONO!!!

Did you read what GBO Possum posted? The one that I told you to read, re-read and read again?

You have no understanding of science. Ziltch. Nada.

Until you do, your arguments are meaningless.



Really? Are we going to get hoverboards? Will we ever cure cancer or aids? When will we set up a permanent colony on Mars?

Back to the beginning are we...:)
I think the way science is headed, is that they are trying to make people live forever. As much as they are told it can never happen, they will never give up trying to prove the bible wrong. It's their drive, it's their choice.

Regarding Mars, some people want to have babies there. They need to get there safely first, which I honestly don't see happening. Time is too short.


This sentence makes me wonder what people like you believe scientists and other scholars are doing, and why there is even knowledge to be discovered in the first place? Why would a Creator make us dumb? Or why would a Creator make us capable of knowledge but hide knowledge from us, or worse still, forbid us from having it? There's an endless queue of such questions, all of them awkward, and none with an answer more convincing than 'Maybe there isn't a Creator'.

This line of thinking belittles human capability and achievement.

12:4
But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

Quite the opposite. I think he was trying to tell you'll, chasing the creation is more important to men, then chasing the Creator.
 
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27975FAF00000578-0-This_graph_shows_the_analsysis_of_the_relative_threat_posed_by_d-a-25_1429091962287.jpg


This graph shows the analsysis of the relative threat posed by different natural disasters to mankind

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...plosive-global-catastrophe.html#ixzz3XTBU83VA


Does this prove that humanity is doomed to extinction? Or merely might be doomed?

Would the knowledge of your own certain extinction together with that of all humanity make any difference in the way you went about your daily life? Would it make you want to kill your neighbor and steal his food? Or would it make you look at your family and friends in a different way?
 
DCP
I think the way science is headed, is that they are trying to make people live forever. As much as they are told it can never happen, they will never give up trying to prove the bible wrong. It's their drive, it's their choice.

'Science' doesn't want to make people live forever, the population is becoming too great for the planet as it is. It does want to allow people to live relatively long and illness-free lives, which is of massive benefit to everyone in all sorts of ways. Scientific breakthroughs have risen the average human life expectancy from 45 years in Jesus' time to 75-80+ years in our time.
 
DCP
Your link, my link, doesn't really belong to us. The power of deception is at large.
It's now clear to me that DCP is perfectly willing to lie and then deny it when convenient.

It's impossible for DCP to argue against a position when he won't or can't put the tiniest amount of effort into understanding the position. I'm starting to doubt if DCP would accept that 2+2 is 4 if he found out math was used to support evolution.

I'm done. If any of you value your time it may be a good idea to stop trying to get DCP to understand anything. He's either unwilling or unable. Whether he's a troll makes no difference, the result is the same.

@DCP I'd be willing to come back to this thread if you answered just a single question I've asked you. In the mean time, why don't you read through all your posts and count the times someone asked a question and you responded without answering it. Let me know what number you get.
 
You're generalizing that we all "follow" Atheism the same way; Most Atheists I know literally give no 🤬 about it, and only chose it because they think the rest is either, A) Made up Rubbish B) Has it effect your lifestyle. I'm more on the B Side, because having to routinely do something with no reward besides "escaping Punishment" is stupid, IMO especially when it may actually not exist (though that is more on the A side
DCP
Round and round the garden.....:)


The plot thickens........http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
What do you do in an atheist church..??

Watch from 12:50. You have a good sense of humour if you don't take offence.





"Scaff, post: 10619662, member: 15439"]Good job I didn't say it only requires knowledge then it was you that said knowledge (science) wasn't required.

Oh and give going to a bank for funding with a business plan that states "don't worry I have courage and belief" a go.

Would you believe me if I told you I wasn't financed at all by the bank? Now that is faith.
Can I add that for the first time in my life, I paid my tithe faithfully, after years of ignoring people around me. What the church does with it, doesn't bother me. It's me and God and his promises that matter.


Knowledge has ended for you?
Explain how that's going to work?

Yeah, the one that the scientists use for it's followers...:)





Except you can't actually back that claim up with anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope

No its not.... http://vaticanobservatory.org/vo-ne...s-archive/vatican-lucifer/515-vatican-lucifer

You see that's what happens when you give up on knowledge, you post nonsense as if its fact.[/QUOTE]

Your link, my link, doesn't really belong to us. The power of deception is at large.



Back to the beginning are we...:)
I think the way science is headed, is that they are trying to make people live forever. As much as they are told it can never happen, they will never give up trying to prove the bible wrong. It's their drive, it's their choice.

Regarding Mars, some people want to have babies there. They need to get there safely first, which I honestly don't see happening. Time is too short.




12:4
But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

Quite the opposite. I think he was trying to tell you'll, chasing the creation is more important to men, then chasing the Creator.[/QUOTE]
 
'Science' doesn't want to make people live forever, the population is becoming too great for the planet as it is. It does want to allow people to live relatively long and illness-free lives, which is of massive benefit to everyone in all sorts of ways. Scientific breakthroughs have risen the average human life expectancy from 45 years in Jesus' time to 75-80+ years in our time.

To add to that, Science doesn't want anything. SCIENCE IS KNOWLEDGE. People want people to live forever. Science has no wants or needs.
 
DCP
The plot thickens........http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
What do you do in an atheist church..??

Me? Nothing, the idea seems as ludicrous as any other type of church.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas or leprechauns but I don't spend any time actively campaigning against their existence, just as I don't spend any time actively campaigning against gods.

That's very unlike those with religious beliefs for whom "spreading the word" is a core directive.

This thread (and those similar) are the few exceptions to my inactions - I find them fascinating. One of the things that strikes me time and again is that many of the agnostics or atheists in this thread are actually well-read in religious texts as well as in scientific topics. Very often the evangelists aren't even so well-read in their own religious texts yet they take on arguments about those texts and, frankly, fail.

You have little understanding of the texts you're pushing (demonstrably through your lack of replies to questions) and almost-zero understanding of what "science" actually is or how people (yes, people) arrive at solid, logical understanding. If I may be so bold; you have a lot of reading and learning to do.
 
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DCP
...... Origin of life and the big bang is still just a theory .......

Two things wrong here, and if you could understand just these two things, everything else would start falling into place.

The Theory of Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about either of these points! The origin of life is NOT part of Evolution. The Big Bang is NOT part of Evolution. Jumbling unrelated subjects together demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. It's like discussing the smell of apple pie while working on a geometry problem. ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER!!!!

And I don't even know how to approach your misuse of the word "theory" any more. It's been shown to you repeatedly, by myself and several others, that the word in Science is NOT the word in a detective novel. A scientific Theory is not an idea that a group of folks would like to prove. I can see how you'd think like that, though, because that's the approach made in all of the "proof" videos you've posted. Those gather carefully selected and edited factoids and present them as "proof" of pre-conceived notions. Here's what we believe, how can we prove it?

In science, you make observations, you test things, you come up with an idea that might explain it, and you (and everyone else who you've discussed it with) try to find something that doesn't fit. You intentionally try to disprove it. If something is found that doesn't fit, the hypothesis is altered or rejected. That's what we mean by falsifiable. When a hypothesis (which is close to what you think "theory" means) stands up to enough scrutiny by enough people for a long enough time without needing radical alteration to explain any findings out there, and in most cases actually describes things that have not yet been observed, but are later found to be true, then that hypothesis advances to the state of being a Theory. This is the highest acceptance of a body of knowledge that there is.

I used the term "willful ignorance" a few pages back. Some criticized the term. There is no better example of it, though, than your continued insistence that Evolution is "just a theory." You have been presented with the correct definition and usage of the word, yet you continue to reject that usage in favor of your more comfortable detective-novel use. You are consciously rejecting real information just because it doesn't fit your notion of how things are. In other words, willfully ignoring facts.

Ignorance because "I didn't know that, nobody ever explained it to me before, I've never seen that in school, I don't have the background to understand that," is understandable and forgivable. Purposely rejecting a vast body of collected and well-understood knowledge is simply not understandable, nor forgivable.

Your argument against well-understood science is exactly the same level as repeatedly saying 2+2 can't possibly be 4.

But as I said in my very first post in this thread some years ago, those set in a religious view of the world have repeatedly refused to accept real knowledge as it is discovered. They feel threatened by it, the power of religious leadership of the populace is reduced when the populace has somewhere to go for answers other than the church. People crave answers, and religion is perfectly happy to make some up and provide them! When real information comes out, religion either accepts or is discredited, and most religious folks simply aren't flexible enough to simply say, "Oh! I see!"

The Earth can't possibly be round! Just look! flat ground for miles and miles and miles! How can the Earth possibly not be in the middle of the Universe. Just look at the sky! Everything up there turns around US! Oh, there's no WAY that rock is 2 billion years old, the Earth has only been here for 6 thousand years! There's no way animals developed over time into other animals, they were all made exactly the way they are!

That last sentence is just as silly as the others in that paragraph.
 
DCP
Here, lets try again:
Since it contradicts those you follow, it becomes a problem for you.

The video was ignored because you ignored questions answered previously, though if want to focus on the video, it was refuted before it was even posted.

I mentioned Tiktaalik earlier. It is the exact fossil that the video claims does not exist that links fish to land animals. This means the presenter in the video is either a liar, or ignorant. Either way, it's discredited.

The video is also full of other misinformation, like the claims about "stasis" which don't even require fossils to refute. Experiments have been done to change organisms in human life times. The video tries to con its way out of that by saying that things can change, but only within their kind, conveniently not defining kind to allow for wiggle room out of evidence to the contrary. Now I didn't watch the entire thing, but that certainly isn't necessary to disprove the video.
 
'Science' doesn't want to make people live forever, the population is becoming too great for the planet as it is. It does want to allow people to live relatively long and illness-free lives, which is of massive benefit to everyone in all sorts of ways. Scientific breakthroughs have risen the average human life expectancy from 45 years in Jesus' time to 75-80+ years in our time.

I don't know hey. Here in South Africa, just from Johannesburg to Durban, is about an hour flight.
The amount of empty land space is staggering. I mean staggering.
If man lived millions of years ago, on a giant continent, then yeah, today it might have been very crowded.
How is science helping aborted babies, or teenagers and under 30 year old fairly fit people that suddenly have heart attacks etc and drop dead? They are prolonging the inevitable, right?

It's now clear to me that DCP is perfectly willing to lie and then deny it when convenient.

It's impossible for DCP to argue against a position when he won't or can't put the tiniest amount of effort into understanding the position. I'm starting to doubt if DCP would accept that 2+2 is 4 if he found out math was used to support evolution.

I'm done. If any of you value your time it may be a good idea to stop trying to get DCP to understand anything. He's either unwilling or unable. Whether he's a troll makes no difference, the result is the same.

@DCP I'd be willing to come back to this thread if you answered just a single question I've asked you. In the mean time, why don't you read through all your posts and count the times someone asked a question and you responded without answering it. Let me know what number you get.

Mate, just go through the link below. When the concept of you being in real trouble hits you, I'm sure you will be back.
Your theory and my belief has to contradict each other. It was always the plan of the adversary.

Me? Nothing, the idea seems as ludicrous as any other type of church.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas or leprechauns but I don't spend any time actively campaigning against their existence, just as I don't spend any time actively campaigning against gods.

That's very unlike those with religious beliefs for whom "spreading the word" is a core directive.

This thread (and those similar) are the few exceptions to my inactions - I find them fascinating. One of the things that strikes me time and again is that many of the agnostics or atheists in this thread are actually well-read in religious texts as well as in scientific topics. Very often the evangelists aren't even so well-read in their own religious texts yet they take on arguments about those texts and, frankly, fail.

You have little understanding of the texts you're pushing (demonstrably through your lack of replies to questions) and almost-zero understanding of what "science" actually is or how people (yes, people) arrive at solid, logical understanding. If I may be so bold; you have a lot of reading and learning to do.

How you miss the irony that the evil one uses a church for this. Why not temple or mosque etc.
His only attack is on God and His creation. One could never see this with natural eyes.

The video was ignored because you ignored questions answered previously, though if want to focus on the video, it was refuted before it was even posted.

I mentioned Tiktaalik earlier. It is the exact fossil that the video claims does not exist that links fish to land animals. This means the presenter in the video is either a liar, or ignorant. Either way, it's discredited.

The video is also full of other misinformation, like the claims about "stasis" which don't even require fossils to refute. Experiments have been done to change organisms in human life times. The video tries to con its way out of that by saying that things can change, but only within their kind, conveniently not defining kind to allow for wiggle room out of evidence to the contrary. Now I didn't watch the entire thing, but that certainly isn't necessary to disprove the video.

So again, where did your ancestors come from, and where did they come from etc?
Where is the proof that one species changed into another in the fossils?
Can you give me an example of a change of a "kind" of species that I don't have to receive by faith?

Gents, I leave you with this to discern. Please try not to ignore it. Your eternity depends on it, seriously.

http://www.signs-of-end-times.com/

2014 disasters...........http://time.com/3630106/natural-dis...3630106/natural-disaster-weather-photos-2014/

2015 disasters..........http://www.theguardian.com/world/natural-disasters (only 4 months in)

What's your take on the one world government, one world religion and one world currency?
This chip that will allow you to buy and sell. Is it still years away, or on the verge?

Rich men are buying land on the moon, thinking they will escape all these things.
It cannot be escaped. Judgment is coming on one of the nations very soon.

You welcome to pm me if you have a need to understand. I don't know it all, but it's my desire to help out where I can. Peace
 
DCP
How you miss the irony that the evil one uses a church for this. Why not temple or mosque etc.
His only attack is on God and His creation.
Are you suggesting that atheists are actually satan worshippers?

I've not worshipped a single thing in my entire life, much less the fictional bad guy who was originally a good guy from some hokey religion.
DCP
2014 disasters
2015 disasters
What's the purpose of this particular aside? Why have you only chosen those two years?
DCP
Rich men are buying land on the moon
Firstly, no they aren't - because the Moon is under treaty that says no land can be bought, sold or owned by any individual, organisation or government.

Secondly, how will this help them achieve anything? We don't currently have the means to get to the Moon - though it wouldn't take all that long to redevelop - and there's nothing there for anyone to live in. We haven't even been there since 1972.
DCP
Judgment is coming on one of the nations very soon.
Which one? How soon?

You clearly have a Bible prophecy in mind - it would go a long way to demonstrating the Bible's powers of future-telling if you could tease out some specifics.

Something tells me that you won't. Behold, my soothsaying abilities!
 
Everything that contradicts his belief is lies from The Adversary.

Which we have obviously doomed ourselves for eternity by accepting.....

Well, that explains EVERYTHING!!!!
 
DCP
Mate, just go through the link below. When the concept of you being in real trouble hits you, I'm sure you will be back.
Your theory and my belief has to contradict each other. It was always the plan of the adversary.
I'm interested in a conversation. Not to hear you preach. If I ask a question I expect you to answer it, not talk about something else. Until you take the time to understand why we accept evolution, you will never be able to convince anyone of anything, no matter how strongly you believe it.

If you want to have a conversation, your next response to me will be a simple yes or no. Nothing else. Just one word, answering the following question:

Can you explain how scientists were able to predict the discovery of thousands of fossils that no creationist expected to exist?

One word.
 
DCP
How is science helping aborted babies, or teenagers and under 30 year old fairly fit people that suddenly have heart attacks etc and drop dead? They are prolonging the inevitable, right?

By letting parents know how reproduction works and when it's a good idea to go through with it or not. In the latter case by finding out why they die and preventing the death.




Your theory and my belief has to contradict each other. It was always the plan of the adversary.
It's a survival tactic. Faith based text can't survive against fact, so they try to obscure the facts. If there was someone deceiving the entire world, then it could be the case that religions and creationism are true, but there is zero evidence for this. Because of that, it has to be ignored.



How you miss the irony that the evil one uses a church for this. Why not temple or mosque etc.
Why is it that a Christian would see events involving churches important, while a muslim would be interested in mosques? It is your bias that makes this an important event. The unbiased are more likely to see it for what it is.




So again, where did your ancestors come from, and where did they come from etc?
First, why are you asking this? You do realize that even if no one knew, it wouldn't make creation correct. An answer is worth nothing. Only the correct answer has value. The Bible and the other books have many answers, but few, if any, are correct. This is why those books are not accepted. There is no anti religion conspiracy.

As for where we came from, it's from earlier primate species, as all the evidence supports. They evolved mammals and we can trace evolution all the way back to single celled organisms that, to the best of our knowledge, formed from non living organic compounds.

Where is the proof that one species changed into another in the fossils?
Every species is always changing, this is evolution. You can see the changes by studying trends in organisms over time and/or by finding short lived transitional forms.

You can also find carry overs from one organism to another. This is partly how whale evolution was traced, their fins contain skeletons like those from land creatures.

Can you give me an example of a change of a "kind" of species that I don't have to receive by faith?
No part of science requires faith. However change of kinds is a religious idea created from ignorance/dishonesty. Kinds mean nothing. What you can see is a change in traits and species (like the London Underground mosquito, dogs from wolves, domestic chickens/cows, etc). The quickest evolving organisms are those that reproduce quickly, like bacterial. Bacteria have been evolved in labs and evolve naturally, which is why new vaccines are needed for old diseases.

Gents, I leave you with this to discern. Please try not to ignore it. Your eternity depends on it, seriously.

http://www.signs-of-end-times.com/

2014 disasters...........http://time.com/3630106/natural-dis...3630106/natural-disaster-weather-photos-2014/

2015 disasters..........http://www.theguardian.com/world/natural-disasters (only 4 months in)

Still not as bad as the bubonic plague I mentioned pages ago. There is nothing significant about those two years.

What's your take on the one world government
There isn't one. If one forms, it probably won't have anything to do with religion. People have been forming bigger and bigger groupings since the beginning of time so it seems that it might be a natural end.

one world religion
Certainly isn't one and won't be while they all argue over who is correct despite not having evidence.

and one world currency?
There isn't one.

This chip that will allow you to buy and sell. Is it still years away, or on the verge?
What does this matter?

Rich men are buying land on the moon, thinking they will escape all these things.
It cannot be escaped. Judgment is coming on one of the nations very soon.

You welcome to pm me if you have a need to understand. I don't know it all, but it's my desire to help out where I can. Peace
This claim (the end is near) is as old as Christianity. What makes your claim correct, and the other 2000 years of claim wrong? They all pointed to the Bible just like you, they all said they were sure just like you.
 
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DCP
How you miss the irony that the evil one uses a church for this. Why not temple or mosque etc.
His only attack is on God and His creation. One could never see this with natural eyes.

You miss the meaning of "church" and presume that it's only Christian... that's my guess, at least.

A "church" is a circle or kirk where discussion (and in later language worship) take place. Its roots predate Christianity. If you were talking in a society where the predominant history was in Arabic language or Isla'am, we'd probably have used the words masjid or mosque, if you were talking about atheism (or agnosticism) as acts of worship then the word "temple" could be correct. In this context it isn't.

You refuse to answer questions and continue to push your blinkered hocum. I wish you nothing but health and happiness, naturally, but I do not see how you are being true to yourself when you refuse to allow your mind to grow. I can already anticipate your answer to that, no need for one. Try answering some of the questions in the various threads, try to see with your own eyes and to judge with your own brain. The answers are in what you can see, not in what you're told by a single book.
 
Are you suggesting that atheists are actually satan worshippers?

I've not worshipped a single thing in my entire life, much less the fictional bad guy who was originally a good guy from some hokey religion.What's the purpose of this particular aside? Why have you only chosen those two years?Firstly, no they aren't - because the Moon is under treaty that says no land can be bought, sold or owned by any individual, organisation or government.

Secondly, how will this help them achieve anything? We don't currently have the means to get to the Moon - though it wouldn't take all that long to redevelop - and there's nothing there for anyone to live in. We haven't even been there since 1972.Which one? How soon?

You clearly have a Bible prophecy in mind - it would go a long way to demonstrating the Bible's powers of future-telling if you could tease out some specifics.

Something tells me that you won't. Behold, my soothsaying abilities!

I wouldn't put it that way, but you are on the fence none the less.
You either for Christ or against Him. No such thing as in the middle. Unforgiven sin against Him is a crime.

Lots of sites say otherwise regarding the moon land purchasing.
Perhaps they believe they are so rich, that they can buy their way there, and science will make it happen. Or they have too much money, and are bored with their lives. Who knows.

The signs in the heavens have shown every time, a judgment on Israel or a nation.
Many end time speakers are pointing towards USA. They have removed their hand off Israel. I'm sure you've been reading about the whole nuclear deal etc. I'm not saying this is specifically the reason, as there is also plenty of lawlessness going on there. Am I right in saying christianity is collapsing in America, and that it's president regards all religions as one? It could be a mere months away. It always has been during a tetrad.

This will help http://www.endtime.com/four-blood-moons/

Forget the mayan and whoever else told you it was ending.
This is real. Remember when I mentioned the tribulation of 7 years. When that peace treaty is signed, that is when you will know the date of that prophecy starts.

I'm excited to see the next eclipse and blood moon. We never get to see such things in Southern Africa.
What is also fascinating is that there are no more tetrads falling on the feast days. Peace
 
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