Creation vs. Evolution

[code_kev]

Heh heh, technically you have shown me evidence either. We're online.

haha true

Anyway, from you prior comments, I deduced that no matter what I would say would be taken as "fundie" stuff and dismissed.

With any theory, I need to see evidence before I can consider it. That's all. I realise that the Bible is important to you, but calling it evidence is weak at best.

 

[Famine]

Just read your response to "Problem #2". I guess I missed your second explaination.

It covered the WOW signal

Need I remind you that these laws of physics are defined by man.

You may, though you'd be wrong.

You going to answer that question at all?

 

[sicbeing]

I'd still like an explanation on why some people in the jungles or on islands communicate with grunts and hand gestures.

If you've read the bible and are familier with the tower of babel, you'd know why I say all humans have a spoken language in this day in age, but the people I mention don't have one, and none the less according to the bible this babel thing didn't happen but a few thousand years ago, did the language dissapear within that amount of time?

Or is it all just bull****?

-edit-

I have a link that will sum up what we all think about answersingensis.org

Here

 

[Swift]

I'd still like an explanation on why some people in the jungles or on islands communicate with grunts and hand gestures.

If you've read the bible and are familier with the tower of babel, you'd know why I say all humans have a spoken language in this day in age, but the people I mention don't have one, and none the less according to the bible this babel thing didn't happen but a few thousand years ago, did the language dissapear within that amount of time?

Or is it all just bull****?

-edit-

I have a link that will sum up what we all think about answersingensis.org

Here

Well, the bible does say that God confounded their speech. So, how do we know that isn't want of the languages?

 

[sicbeing]

It's been a while, but I remember understanding it as he created different languages (they all had just one) so that they would spread over the world instead of just being in one spot.

Nevermind the fact that God destroyed the tower because they all wanted to eventually get on a higher plane then God.

 

[Swift]

It's been a while, but I remember understanding it as he created different languages (they all had just one) so that they would spread over the world instead of just being in one spot.

Nevermind the fact that God destroyed the tower because they all wanted to eventually get on a higher plane then God.

Actually,

Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the eart: and they left off to build the city.

Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

God scattered them, but since they couldn't talk with each other anymore, I guess it wasn't so bad.

As for the exact reason of the Tower, I have always believed they wanted to do that no so much to be as high as God(because God is everywhere anyway) but to be higher then the next flood. That God had of course said he wouldn't do.

 

[Grand Prix]

Do some people actually believe that birds DID NOT come from dinosaurs?!? What the.....?

Both Avian dinosaurs (raptors) and today's birds have Pelvis bones.
Their skull shapes are virtually the same, except for the beak.
Birds have scales under their feathers.
Birds and Avian dinosaurs lay eggs.
Both have the skeleton design that suits high leaping.
Both have a bigger claw on the 2nd toe.



IMO, the only group of animal species in the world that can be considered proof of Creation, are the sharks. *Insert the music theme of JAWS* Sharks have been virtually unchanged over 400 million years (the Silurian Period, "Age of Fishes"). They were an efficient killer from the start, in fact sharks probably dominate fishes in the same way that Man dominates land mammals in terms of survival impact. I'm not including whales or giant squid because they are not fish.

 

[code_kev]

Sharks havn't changed much because they are practically perfect for what they do.

 

[sicbeing]

Could be a number of things Swift, yours is just as good reason as my thought, but I never thought of that one, because I didn't think they would do that because they knew God would never do that again.

Isn't the next one supposed to be fire?

Anyway, I don't know about your theory with what he did exactly to their languages. I actually thought that he didn't make the world so everyone would live on one spot, so he made them speak different languages so they would find amongst each other who they could understand, then venture outward and create different civilaztions based on the fact they could understand each other.

But another thing, why would the un-will-changing God, suddenly just give everyone understanding and the motor skills to prnounce and speak a completly different language?

 

[Grand Prix]

Sharks havn't changed much because they are practically perfect for what they do.

Yes, in that sense sharks could support the theory of Evolution as well. My point was that, according to the fossil record, sharks are pretty much the only group of species that have a "point"-like quality, as opposed to constantly evolving. In my view, sharks are the only animals that Creationists can use to prove their theory, but at the same time, they can provide evidence against Creation because of the fact that they are a dominant carnivore (or in the case of Tiger Sharks, a dominant omnivore). Why would a dominant carnivore need to change?

 

[code_kev]

Exactly, sharks have evolved to near perfection, scarily effective killing machines.

 

[Earth]

All the evidence you need to know there is a creator is to look at your hand. Or look outside. Soft grass to walk on, blue sky, bright sun, cool breeze.

Want more evidence? Look at the earth from Space

“To look out as this kind of creation out here
and not believe in God is to me impossible. It just
strengthens my faith. I wish there were words to
describe what it’s like...”

-- Astronaut John Glenn
on board the space shuttle Discovery, Nov. 4, 1998

How many planets out there are as beautiful as the Earth? Wait, how many are even HALF as beautiful? Please, where is all the beauty? Right here on Earth. And no, just because there is water here doesnt mean there has to be beauty. The Earth could have 'evolved' into something ugly, but it didn't. It is something of intense beauty, that man can only dream of replicating.

The best proof of God is his creation, from the awesome cell to mighty galaxies

Everything is beautiful. Just look around you. You yourself may be beautiful. Alot of peole you know are beautiful. Your house is beautiful Your car is beautiful. Life is beautiful. Where did this beauty come from? Get to know your creator. He's awesome

 

[Pako]

It covered the WOW signal



You may, though you'd be wrong.

You going to answer that question at all?

I see you did answer the WOW signal to the best of your ability. Great idea on what that noise was. I guess it was another idea of the apparently many different ideas of what that frequency might have been. How do you know it wasn't alien life as suggestion? Let me answer that, you don't know. This is of course assuming that the jet out of the black hole wasn't actually documented, and that it is just speculation that jet is what made that sound.

So, just what did happen up there? Ehman, who now serves as a volunteer at the Ohio State Radio Observatory and collaborates with the private, non-profit SETI League, allows that "we still don't know what it was, and probably never will," but holds on to the belief that there's something out there, perhaps beyond the horizon as we know it.

"Very simply, I think there are undoubtedly many intelligent civilizations out there, some of which are certainly more advanced than we are -- and if they wanted to send us a beacon signal, this would be the best way to do it using the least energy," Ehman said. "But I've trained as a scientist, maybe too well, and I'm still waiting to see them first hand. I'm definitely a skeptic."

So, if you could answer my question that would be great.

And what do you mean we don't define the laws of physics? Who then defines them? Oh wait....my definition of "define" must be different than yours. See to me, it is of human origin that the words used to describe these laws of physics are human definitions. You probably think I was talking about humans actually molding or influencing the laws of physics. See to me, "define" means specify: determine the essential quality of.

 

[Grand Prix]

http://carlah11.tripod.com/sounds/jaws.wav

Is the monster that is commonly associated with that music beautiful as well?
The Earth is beautiful to it as well, full of tasty little fishes, the panicked splashes of their tails bringing a delight to his electric 6th sense. Then the sea turns red, signifying to the beast that it has succeeded. It is happy, then the hunger returns...

Things only look "nice" when they are associated with our survival. A muddy lake looks ugly because you can't see what's in it. There could be snakes in there.
A fit member of the opposite sex look nice because you know he/she will rear healthy offspring. Plants and water look attractive because we eat/drink them. Air is colourless because it would interfere with vision if it had colour. Bees are yellow and black to signify a dangerous animal. Blood is red to alarm us when we're bleeding.

A red or yellow room would drive you nuts. A blue or green room relaxes the mind.

 

[Famine]

Come now, Pako - you're still pressing me for answers to subsequent enquiries without having given a response to my earlier question?

A simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed.

 

[Pako]

Come now, Pako - you're still pressing me for answers to subsequent enquiries without having given a response to my earlier question?

A simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed.

I think I asked you first, what/who decides what CAN exist? If you don't know, it's quite all right to say, "I don't know". I will answer your question again if you like after you answer my question I asked first. What was the question again...?

 

[code_kev]

All the evidence you need to know there is a creator is to look at your hand. Or look outside. Soft grass to walk on, blue sky, bright sun, cool breeze.

That's not evidence. Those things can be explained better by science.

Want more evidence? Look at the earth from Space

“To look out as this kind of creation out here
and not believe in God is to me impossible. It just
strengthens my faith. I wish there were words to
describe what it’s like...”

-- Astronaut John Glenn
on board the space shuttle Discovery, Nov. 4, 1998

How many planets out there are as beautiful as the Earth? Wait, how many are even HALF as beautiful? Please, where is all the beauty? Right here on Earth. And no, just because there is water here doesnt mean there has to be beauty. The Earth could have 'evolved' into something ugly, but it didn't. It is something of intense beauty, that man can only dream of replicating.

The best proof of God is his creation, from the awesome cell to mighty galaxies

Everything is beautiful. Just look around you. You yourself may be beautiful. Alot of peole you know are beautiful. Your house is beautiful Your car is beautiful. Life is beautiful. Where did this beauty come from? Get to know your creator. He's awesome

Ya know, it's stuff like this that only backs up evolution. It makes me thankfull that I can view the world with eyes unclouded by religion.

Everything is beautiful

I beg to differ

 

[Famine]

Well, I was rather trying to work you through the logic of it all, since you seemed unwilling to accept it, but if you're not interested you can just dismiss everything with a wave of the magic God-wand. Your God can do whatever He wants to, after all.


"Who" decides what can and can't happen in the universe is an irrelevant and illogical question. It smacks of anthropomorphisation.

Who decides that when you jump out of a plane you fall downwards? No-one. You are behaving in accordance with the physical laws of our universe, in particular, gravity. You are in close proximity to a region of concentrated mass (the Earth). This exerts a force on you proportional to its mass and distance from you. Similarly, the Earth is in close proximity to a region of concentrated mass (you). You exert a force on the Earth proportional to your mass and your distance from it. Your mass and radius are very small compared to the Earth's, so the region of concentrated mass known as "you" accelerates towards the region of concentrated mass at a higher rate than it accelerates towards you - though it still does. This is known as gravity.

No-one decided that since you jumped out of a plane, you should move quickly towards the ground (and have it move slowly up to meet you). Man discovered - and documented (and refined the documentation) - the phenomenon, but neither man nor the science used to describe it have any effect on the fact that it takes place. It is a consequence of having mass in our universe. "Decision" is anthropomorphisation - placing human-like characteristics on that which does not exhibit them. It happens, not for any reason or because of any intent.

 

[tabs]

Awesome how? As in awesomely devastating to the evolutionists, or as an awesome collection of the worst mistaken-assumption-based pseudoscience ever collected in a self-righteous fervor?

The latter.

 

[Grand Prix]

Ya know, it's stuff like this that only backs up evolution. It makes me thankfull that I can view the world with eyes unclouded by religion.


I beg to differ

Yups, sharks look pretty ugly to me.

 

[code_kev]

Everything is beautiful, even aids and cancer!

 

[Earth]

Things only look "nice" when they are associated with our survival. A muddy lake looks ugly because you can't see what's in it. There could be snakes in there.
A fit member of the opposite sex look nice because you know he/she will rear healthy offspring. Plants and water look attractive because we eat/drink them. Air is colourless because it would interfere with vision if it had colour. Bees are yellow and black to signify a dangerous animal. Blood is red to alarm us when we're bleeding.

A red or yellow room would drive you nuts. A blue or green room relaxes the mind.

I give up. (I should have never tried)

Looks like the 'we need it for survival or it took billions of years' can answer pretty much everything for evolutionists.

 

[code_kev]

Looks like the 'God did it because we don't understand' can answer pretty much everything for creationists.

 

[Famine]

I give up. (I should have never tried)

Looks like the 'we need it for survival or it took billions of years' can answer pretty much everything for evolutionists.

As opposed to "God did it. It's obvious."?

 

[Earth]

As opposed to "God did it. It's obvious."?

I believe you refered to it as God's magic wand

Hypocritical to mock 'God is all powerful' then go right around and post 'it took billions of years'

Both require faith because neither of us have seen either way happen

 

[Grand Prix]

I believe you refered to it as God's magic wand

Hypocritical to mock 'God is all powerful' then go right around and post 'it took billions of years'

Both require faith because neither of us have seen either way happen

The difference is that Evolution theorists have access to the fossil record...

 

[Famine]

Oh my stars, no...

Have you actually read this entire thread, like I suggested? You keep bringing up points which have already been answered - some many times over.

For the nth time, you can conduct and witness evolution in a laboratory - by this I mean YOU can. Anyone, anywhere in the world can pick up a scientific paper and, following the instructions given in the methods and using the materials denoted in the materials, perform the same experiments - even as a test. This is what scientists do - they test each other. If an experiment cannot be repeated - see Cold Fusion - then it is not scientifically valid.


For the n^nth time, if something requires faith to accept it, it is because there is no, or not enough, evidence to validate it. Evolutionary theory requires absolutely no faith at all.

 

[code_kev]

Both require faith because neither of us have seen either way happen

Thousands of pieces of evidence which corroborate the theory of Evolution exist. Nothing exists that can back up creationism. Now tell me which takes Faith?

 

[Pako]

Well, I was rather trying to work you through the logic of it all, since you seemed unwilling to accept it, but if you're not interested you can just dismiss everything with a wave of the magic God-wand. Your God can do whatever He wants to, after all.


"Who" decides what can and can't happen in the universe is an irrelevant and illogical question. It smacks of anthropomorphisation.

Who decides that when you jump out of a plane you fall downwards? No-one. You are behaving in accordance with the physical laws of our universe, in particular, gravity. You are in close proximity to a region of concentrated mass (the Earth). This exerts a force on you proportional to its mass and distance from you. Similarly, the Earth is in close proximity to a region of concentrated mass (you). You exert a force on the Earth proportional to your mass and your distance from it. Your mass and radius are very small compared to the Earth's, so the region of concentrated mass known as "you" accelerates towards the region of concentrated mass at a higher rate than it accelerates towards you - though it still does. This is known as gravity.

No-one decided that since you jumped out of a plane, you should move quickly towards the ground (and have it move slowly up to meet you). Man discovered - and documented (and refined the documentation) - the phenomenon, but neither man nor the science used to describe it have any effect on the fact that it takes place. It is a consequence of having mass in our universe. "Decision" is anthropomorphisation - placing human-like characteristics on that which does not exhibit them. It happens, not for any reason or because of any intent.

I'm open to a lot of things. I am just trying to work you through you're own logic of your infinite universe.

So you're saying that it isn't a 'decision" at all, but rather the result of the laws of physics.

It is by these laws that we can determine what CAN exist, things CAN exist because of the laws of physics. It would also be fair to say that things that do not agree with the laws of physics CANNOT exist.​

Is that a good summary? Would you agree with that?

 

[Swift]

Thousands of pieces of evidence which corroborate the theory of Evolution exist. Nothing exists that can back up creationism. Now tell me which takes Faith?

Actually, no. I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this. Jesus talked about many instances in the Old testament. Like Jonah and the whale. Now we all know that Jesus existed. The only debate is was he God or not. If you're atheist, then there is no debate.

But anyway, my validation for the happenings in the book of genesis are in the new testament, in Jesus Christ.

Also, I think it's foolish to say that science knows for a fact how old those fossils are. Now I'm not saying the world is 6,000 years old. I simply don't believe it's umpteen billion years old. Famine has explained before how the dating system works. But what I just don't get is how we can say this has to be 50 million years old because this intrument says so.