Creation vs. Evolution

[Swift]

Why would something have to set up the laws of physics You think in such a narrow spectrum.
You obviously weren't very good at science in school, and have now found yourself a much easier explanation that you can understand...well done...but as they say, by taking the easy way out, you are only cheating yourself.

The idea of a magic man creating the world as a present to us represents the vanity of man, for it is rather egocentric to suggest that the entire universe was created for us to look at...

As for your "Intelligent Design", Swift, can you explain why a Whale has hind leg bones? And despite living in water it's whole life, it breathes air!!
You'd get the sack for making a design error like that

Edit: Earth, just stick to looking at girly pics, you never know, one day you might meet a real one

First, I always got A's in science. So, yeah. Second, the laws of physics exist because there are physical things that need some sort of rules to control them right? So where did the physical things come from?

What makes me laugh is not that I think you guys are stupid. But that if I told you that this piano appeared here over the course of a few million years, you'd think I was out of my mind. But you believe that by the laws of physics(that apparently nobody setup) that the world came into being and human life is as we know it today. By Random occourence.

 

[sicbeing]

Lol, a answersingensis link? I won't even bother looking at it.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

First, I always got A's in science. So, yeah.

At what level, pre school ?

Second, the laws of physics exist because there are physical things that need some sort of rules to control them right? So where did the physical things come from?

You're still not quite grasping that physics concept yet are you...

But you believe that by the laws of physics(that apparently nobody setup) that the world came into being and human life is as we know it today. By Random occourence.

Again, you're not quite getting it are you? Why would they need set up? Did someone set up time....

And yes...random

Too hard for you to understand, well go back to believing in your superstition then.

Did you find time to explain why Whales have leg bones? No, just avoided it....la la la...what evidence...la la...

 

[sicbeing]

I remember reading somewhere that when the flood occured, everything that breathedd through nostrils would die.

What about whales? I'm sure the air-breathing fish didn't die. whoops!? Or who knows.

 

[Famine]

If you're teaching the Christian Creation "account", why not also teach the Islamic one? Oh, and the Sikh, Daoist, Jainist, Buddhist, Hindu, Mormon, Moonie, Shinto, Raelian and Rastafarian ones. Why stop there? We mustn't forget Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidians...

What makes God-derived pseudo-science any better than Allah-derived or Haile Selassie-derived ones?

 

[Pako]

I'm not saying he's too good for me, I was saying it was impossible to talk with an infinite being. Or at least, I would think so.


How does God answer your prayers? You pray for something, then something happens, and however it relates to your prayer, you think it was God?

Say I prayed for my cousins good health. 2 weeks later, he is cured of his disease. Was it God? Or was it something else? Or was it anything? What if he died? Would it have been God then?

I just know where to draw the line, what IS God, and what isn't.

I must have thought about this in my sleep because I woke up this morning thinking about how we are communicating right now and how unbelievable it would be to try and explain it a thousand years ago. Could you imagine how much reticule you would get trying to explain virtual reality, computers, keyboards, monitors, typed words, binary code, the internet. They would lock you up. You would have to see it for yourself to be able to accept it whether or not you could explain how it works. My example is only to show how something CAN be without understanding or having knowledge of it. The fact that someone has understanding or has knowledge of it should be a hint that it might just be possible. In using Famine's "Infinite Universe" example, communication with God is happening/has happened somewhere.

 

[Famine]

Ah, you misunderstood.

I said that anything that CAN happen WILL happen somewhere in the universe. That is, anything which has a physical possibility of happening, however remote, will occur. That's not to say that things which have no physical possibility of happening will occur - simply because they do not have any physical possibility of happening.

As you're fond of saying, God does not obey the laws of physics, ergo His tangible existence is a physical impossibility, so communing with Him cannot happen. It's what we like to call "a double-edged Sword". If God is in the Universe, He's subject to its laws. If God is not in the Universe, He's not subject to its laws. Similarly, if God is subject to the Universe's laws, then he is within it. If he is not subject to its laws then he is not. Stepping on a little further, you say God is not subject to the Universe's laws - fair enough. He's a supreme being, why should He be? That means he isn't in the universe, so contact is impossible. That said, if God is in the Universe and subject to its laws, He can't be "God", since "God" shouldn't be subject to anything, as the Creator of everything.

Q.E.D.

This puts us at somewhat of an impasse. If God is God, He isn't in the Universe, who have you been speaking and praying to? If God IS in the Universe he isn't "God", so who have you been speaking and praying to?

 

[sicbeing]

I must have thought about this in my sleep because I woke up this morning thinking about how we are communicating right now and how unbelievable it would be to try and explain it a thousand years ago. Could you imagine how much reticule you would get trying to explain virtual reality, computers, keyboards, monitors, typed words, binary code, the internet. They would lock you up. You would have to see it for yourself to be able to accept it whether or not you could explain how it works. My example is only to show how something CAN be without understanding or having knowledge of it. The fact that someone has understanding or has knowledge of it should be a hint that it might just be possible. In using Famine's "Infinite Universe" example, communication with God is happening/has happened somewhere.

Well, believe it or not, I used to be religous. I had my reasoning, and I went to church, and I believed my whole life, up to a point. With all that said, I've never "spoken" to God , felt his presence, or anything. All I used to think is that God was, just, there.

I really have no idea how you speak with him or how you talk to him or how to do anything WITH him. If I were to understand it, I'd say you could only talk/do things with him, in heaven.

I mean, even in the Bible, it was created by men "inspired" by God. That could mean a few different things, but I doubt they'd claim they "spoke" to god, or god whispered the bible in their ears. The bible is just storys from way back when , when people started to document God.

If God really wanted there to be a bible, why wouldn't he start it out at the beginning of time? WHat language did they all speak? God put the language into them so he could communicate with them, then did the same thing at Babel for different reasons... But most of our languages are obveiously just "evolved" versions of other languages, and we come up with new words all the time.

Even people in the jungle that I've seen on discovery channel's or wtv, they have no spoken language, they communicate with body languages and grunts.. What, did they forget the language God put into their brains over time?

There are just so many things going against religion now adays.

 

[sicbeing]

I was having a discussion with my step brother about deaf people and what is inside their head.

Whenever me or you read, we hear things inside our head. We hear our voice, or at least -a- voice speaking to us. What would a deaf person "hear" in their head? How would they know what a "voice" sounded like? (assuming they have been deaf their whole life)

 

[Swift]

At what level, pre school ?


You're still not quite grasping that physics concept yet are you...


Again, you're not quite getting it are you? Why would they need set up? Did someone set up time....

And yes...random

Too hard for you to understand, well go back to believing in your superstition then.

Did you find time to explain why Whales have leg bones? No, just avoided it....la la la...what evidence...la la...

There are similarities between species and that proves evolution as the origin of species, Humans being the highest form. Uh, no. No scientists in their right mind would say that.

TB, I'm getting really bored of you directly insulting my intelligence level. You don't even know me. So, relax a bit with the personal attacks huh?

Just because we have different viewpoints doesn't make one of us smarter then the other.

 

[sicbeing]

-edit-

Posted this in wrong thread

 

[Famine]

Edit: Never mind then...

*whistles*

 

[Pako]

Ah, you misunderstood.

I said that anything that CAN happen WILL happen somewhere in the universe. That is, anything which has a physical possibility of happening, however remote, will occur. That's not to say that things which have no physical possibility of happening will occur - simply because they do not have any physical possibility of happening.

As you're fond of saying, God does not obey the laws of physics, ergo His tangible existence is a physical impossibility, so communing with Him cannot happen. It's what we like to call "a double-edged Sword". If God is in the Universe, He's subject to its laws. If God is not in the Universe, He's not subject to its laws. Similarly, if God is subject to the Universe's laws, then he is within it. If he is not subject to its laws then he is not. Stepping on a little further, you say God is not subject to the Universe's laws - fair enough. He's a supreme being, why should He be? That means he isn't in the universe, so contact is impossible. That said, if God is in the Universe and subject to its laws, He can't be "God", since "God" shouldn't be subject to anything, as the Creator of everything.

Q.E.D.

This puts us at somewhat of an impasse. If God is God, He isn't in the Universe, who have you been speaking and praying to? If God IS in the Universe he isn't "God", so who have you been speaking and praying to?

You are assuming that God is bound to physical laws. How could anyone assume that? Based on your conclusions, your logic works, but your conclusions are based on objects and laws that God created. The only time that God was bound to physical law is when Christ came to earth. God manifest in the flesh. Christ also says that no one is to come to the Father except through me. Christ is the communication channel to God. That makes Christ pretty important doesn't it?

And I ask you again, who/what determines what CAN happen in your infinite universe? You? Science? Government? (I don't know is a valid answer.)

 

[Tacet_Blue]

There are similarities between species and that proves evolution as the origin of species, Humans being the highest form. Uh, no. No scientists in their right mind would say that.

TB, I'm getting really bored of you directly insulting my intelligence level. You don't even know me. So, relax a bit with the personal attacks huh?

Just because we have different viewpoints doesn't make one of us smarter then the other.

Why do you feel that I am insulting your intelligence level. Is it because you don't understand.

Seems like a pretty weak cop out to me...oh well.

You insult my intelligence when you tell me that woman was created from a lump of disembodied flesh that somehow managed to grow outside a womb.

Similarities between species Why would a whale need legs??...

Kids are better educated than this intelligent design rubbish when they watch the cartoon network....

And right back at you Swift...I'm getting really bored of you quoting the bible all the time, no matter what thread you are in.

 

[Famine]

You are assuming that God is bound to physical laws. How could anyone assume that? Based on your conclusions, your logic works, but your conclusions are based on objects and laws that God created. The only time that God was bound to physical law is when Christ came to earth. God manifest in the flesh. Christ also says that no one is to come to the Father except through me. Christ is the communication channel to God. That makes Christ pretty important doesn't it?

And I ask you again, who/what determines what CAN happen in your infinite universe? You? Science? Government? (I don't know is a valid answer.)

Let's work this a step at a time.

Is there anything you know of, which is tangible, that exists in our universe but is not bound by all of its physical laws?

 

[Zardoz]

Lol, a answersingensis link? I won't even bother looking at it.

Then you'll be guilty of thinking like they do.

C'mon, click on the link. You won't believe what you see:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/docs2005/0523dinosaurs.asp

 

[Pako]

Let's work this a step at a time.

Is there anything you know of, which is tangible, that exists in our universe but is not bound by all of its physical laws?

Recently, this March I believe, a science journal/publication/magazine published 13 things that didn't seem to be bound by known physical laws or they can't be explained with our sciences today.

So yeah, I guess from reading that publication, I do know of some tangible things that exist in our universe that are not bound by known physical laws. Or maybe I'm misreading the question.

So who/what determines CAN exist, physical law? Our understand of physical law?

 

[Famine]

Recently, this March I believe, a science journal/publication/magazine published 13 things that didn't seem to be bound by known physical laws or they can't be explained with our sciences today.

And, in the relevant thread, I explained all 13 phenomena, from the explanations given by the teams that first uncovered them.

So, given that this is not the case, can you name any tangible thing in the universe which does not obey ALL physical laws?

 

[Zardoz]

...Haile Selassie-derived ones?

I need an explanation of why evangelical christianity, which espouses the belief that the universe is 4700 years old, is somehow more valid than this belief:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/rast.html

 

[Swift]

Why do you feel that I am insulting your intelligence level. Is it because you don't understand.

Seems like a pretty weak cop out to me...oh well.

You insult my intelligence when you tell me that woman was created from a lump of disembodied flesh that somehow managed to grow outside a womb.

Similarities between species Why would a whale need legs??...

Kids are better educated than this intelligent design rubbish when they watch the cartoon network....

And right back at you Swift...I'm getting really bored of you quoting the bible all the time, no matter what thread you are in.

Then do me a favor, stop engaging me if you already know what I'm going to say. People simply cannot explain life. Can't do it. I doubt we'll ever be able to do it. But the concept that from bacteria came humans is, well, weak.

Everyone here acts like I've never even considered a different view. You might find it amazing that I wasn't born into this. But came to it in my adult years. So, don't think that for some reason I got A's in preschool science because I belieive in God. I got A's in all my science classes. Unless we were talking about plant biology because I always found that very boring.

Granted, I don't have have Famine's education on science, but at the same time, I don't have some stupid farmboy like mentallity.

The evolutionary theory is based on findings that are incomplete to say the least. Then the cop out is, "Scientists are fine with not knowing" Yeah, then why do they press on to actually find out?

Science is fantastic. But it hasn't SHOWN that evolution is fact, you want to know why? We're still having this debate, that's why. If it was shown as fact, then there would be no point. But it's a THEORY, so let's treat it as such. Even if you want to call creation a theory that's fine. But don't say I have evidence of this and that so that makes evolution a fact.

 

[Pako]

And, in the relevant thread, I explained all 13 phenomena, from the explanations given by the teams that first uncovered them.

So, given that this is not the case, can you name any tangible thing in the universe which does not obey ALL physical laws?

I can explain anything, that doesn't give it scientific proof now does it, regardless, where is this relevant thread. I'd love to read what you wrote.

 

[Famine]

One of the threads was here. I only explained two of them in that one.

Now that I've answered your, latterly-posed, question, can you please answer mine?

 

[code_kev]

The truth-telling begins in the lobby, where guests come face to face with a pair of young T. rex dinosaurs, living alongside Adam’s children.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahhahahaha

ha
ha

An adult T. rex let loose in Corruption Valley: “Look, don’t blame God for my ferocious appetite. God originally made us to eat plants (Gen. 1:30), but Adam’s sin brought a curse upon the whole world.”

OH NOES!!! NOT CORRUPTION VALLEY!

I'm so glad I clicked on the link now! AnsweringGen is a site for stupid people, by stupid people.

The evolutionary theory is based on findings that are incomplete to say the least. Then the cop out is, "Scientists are fine with not knowing" Yeah, then why do they press on to actually find out?

No Swift, scientists are not fine with not knowing, nor do they pretend to be. They search for answers, and trying and fill in the gaps. Fundies just make em up to fit their twisted religious ideology. The Bible will NEVER be a reliable source of evidence. Never. I shouldn't even have to explain why.

But it's a THEORY, so let's treat it as such. Even if you want to call creation a theory that's fine. But don't say I have evidence of this and that so that makes evolution a fact.

Evolution is a theory with evidence, real tangible evidence. Creationism has none, that is why it is viewed with utter scorn.

 

[Swift]

Well Code, it's utterly impossible to discuss anything with you outside the world of video games. So I'm going to stop now.

 

[Pako]

One of the threads was [urlurl=https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60840]here[/url]. I only explained two of them in that one.

Now that I've answered your, latterly-posed, question, can you please answer mine?

Just read your response to "Problem #2". I guess I missed your second explaination. Can't say that I 'believe' your response. Maybe it's because I can't see how they can measure the age of the universe. Where is their point of reference to start measuring. Maybe the earth is at the center of the universe? NASA thinks the universe to be 13.7 billion years old. Science can only estimate a lower limit of the age/size of the universe based on our current technology, this I agree with. Don't want to get too off topic here as this discussion really should be for "the relevant thread". So, we can say that the universe is "at least" X billion years old, but we can't say "it's this" old. #7 in the "relevant thread" was interesting as well, apparently it defies laws of physics. Maybe their instruments were faulty.

So who/what decides what CAN exist? Laws of physics? Need I remind you that these laws of physics are defined by man. Best guess theories based on repeated results that have consistent results, if the results are interpreted the same. This is great that we can even observe and document these laws that have been defined by man, but man is not infallible and we could be misunderstanding our observations.

 

[code_kev]

Well Code, it's utterly impossible to discuss anything with you outside the world of video games. So I'm going to stop now.

All you had to do Swift was show me some evidence, but you couldn't even do that.

 

[Pako]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahhahahaha

ha
ha



OH NOES!!! NOT CORRUPTION VALLEY!

I'm so glad I clicked on the link now! AnsweringGen is a site for stupid people, by stupid people.



No Swift, scientists are not fine with not knowing, nor do they pretend to be. They search for answers, and trying and fill in the gaps. Fundies just make em up to fit their twisted religious ideology. The Bible will NEVER be a reliable source of evidence. Never. I shouldn't even have to explain why.



Evolution is a theory with evidence, real tangible evidence. Creationism has none, that is why it is viewed with utter scorn.

If you can't be mature enough to be a part of this discussion, please refrain from posting in this discussion.

 

[code_kev]

Pako, my latter comments were sensible. I was only mocking the Dinosaur musuem.

 

[Pako]

Pako, my latter comments were sensible. I was only mocking the Dinosaur musuem.

Your mockery is not required for this discussion.

 

[Swift]

All you had to do Swift was show me some evidence, but you couldn't even do that.

Heh heh, technically you have shown me evidence either. We're online.

Anyway, from you prior comments, I deduced that no matter what I would say would be taken as "fundie" stuff and dismissed.