Creation vs. Evolution

[Swift]

You only throw out science that doesn't agree with your faith. Calling the Bible the word of God is abit...off. God never wrote it, people did. This is why it has many contradictions. One would expect a being of infinte power who created a planet and everything on it to be able to at least sort their own Holy book out! That's how I see it anyway.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html



" The direct lineage from the ancestor of both man and the modern apes to modern man is not known. Evidence is increasing. Thousands of relics fit the general pattern."

http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

"The usual creationist response to hominid fossils is to claim that there are no intermediates; each one is either a human or an ape. It doesn't matter that some of the "humans" have a brain size well below the normal human range, heavy brow ridges, no chin, and teeth larger than modern ones set in a projecting jaw, or that some of the "apes" were bipedal, with very humanlike teeth, and brains larger than those of similar sized apes. There are some skulls which cannot be reliably assigned to either genus. (Willis 1989)

This is exactly what we would expect if evolution had occurred. If, on the other hand, creationism was true and there was a large gap between humans and apes, it should be easy to separate hominid fossils into humans and apes. This is not the case. As will be shown, creationists themselves cannot agree which fossils are humans and which are apes. It would not matter even if creationists could decide where to put the dividing line between humans and apes. No matter where it is placed, the humans just above the line and the apes just below it will be more similar to one another than they will be to other humans or other apes.."

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cre_args.html


If I quote sources, I can't say anything too silly

So the answer to my question is you don't know. Gotcha.

 

[ledhed]

Your wrong . Science can prove evolution of countless species . It can prove that the animals on the earth did not all come from an " ark " and that they have evolved over millions of years . Through fossle records it can be proven that neanderthal man and Cro magnon man walked the earth BEFORE modern man . Science as of yet cant prove definitively that link that evolved into modern man but can prove the steps necessary for it to happen . You are being stubborn not to see this . Science has disproved Genisis for years. Its a good childrens story not fact by any means .

 

[Duke]

So the answer to my question is you don't know. Gotcha.

And scientists understand that without having it cripple them. It's what drives them to keep looking for a better, more precise answer, instead of simply saying "We don't know this, so we'll look up the assigned answer in our big Book, and just believe whatever it says."

 

[code_kev]

So did Noah have dinosaurs on his magic boat then?

 

[Pako]

And scientists understand that without having it cripple them. It's what drives them to keep looking for a better, more precise answer, instead of simply saying "We don't know this, so we'll look up the assigned answer in our big Book, and just believe whatever it says."

But when scientists don't know, but fail to tell you that when they explain how the human race evolved from ape like creatures, then yeah, it seems like they are just filling in the blanks for what is unknown and thereby having faith and belief in their own intellect that they can surmise what cannot be proved (at this time). Good, bad, or indifferent, this is what happens. Then again, just because you can't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, right?

 

[code_kev]

Then again, just because you can't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, right?

If I said a giant magic bear called "bob" made the Earth, the fact that you can't disprove it, doesn't make it any less ridiculous. My little theory there, has as much evidence to back it up as Creationism does. None. Hell, I'll write a book about it, and who knows, in two thousand years it may become a religion.

And puuulease, evolution is based on evidence, it's there, it exists. You simple can not deny this. Even one finger bone of a pre human ape thingy, would be a trillion times more evidence then then you have.

 

[Pako]

So did Noah have dinosaurs on his magic boat then?

Not sure what 'magic boat' you are talking about, but if you're talking about Noah's Arc, do a search, I think Jordan actually answered this one already.....

 

[code_kev]

Well to fit all those animals, food, and the fact that 8 people fed, cleaned and cared for all these animals, it must have been pretty magical! Did he fit all the Dinosaurs from all the different time periods too? Well considering some lived millions of years apart, this would have been difficult...but interesting. Noah would also have had to have lived over 65 million years ago...plus how would he and his family keep a pair of angry dinosaurs under control? Harsh language? A stick?

It's quite funny how even I, with my admitidly limited knowledge on this subject, can rip just about any Creationist theory to shreds.

 

[Grand Prix]

How did Noah prevent the carnivores from eating the herbivores and humans? And did he have a Dimetrodon from the Permian period, alongside the Velociraptor from the Cretaceous period? Must have been some interesting battles between dinosaurs there, maybe they became extinct from farting contests held on the Ark? Or maybe Noah just pushed the 2,000 ton beasts out of the Ark with his own hands? They must have angered the dude. Must have been a huge pile of poo he had to pick up.

 

[code_kev]

How did Noah prevent the carnivores from eating the herbivores and humans?

He used a stick. DUH!

edit: A long stick, so the dino couldn't bite him. It may have been a knobbly stick.


http://www.flintstonesvitamins.ca/kids/colour/images/dino.gif
RAWRRR!!!!1!

 

[Grand Prix]

Maybe the lions ate the dinosaurs and that's why they're extinct?

 

[Pako]

If I said a giant magic bear called "bob" made the Earth, the fact that you can't disprove it, doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

And puuulease, evolution is based on evidence, it's there, it exists. You simple can not deny this. Even one finger bone of a pre human ape thingy, would be a trillion times more evidence then then you have.

Oh, I see you meet 'bob' to, eh? How's he doing these days?

I think it's ridiculous to think that ALL LIFE, as diverse as it is, came from the same single-celled organism. It's as unthinkable to me, as God's existences is to you.

Your point?

 

[code_kev]

I think it's ridiculous to think that ALL LIFE, as diverse as it is, came from the same single-celled organism. It's as unthinkable to me, as God's existences is to you.

But less ridiculous then a giant magic boat that holds two of every animal? Your SERIOUSLY suggesting this?

Bobs fine by the way, but he's pissed that everyone thinks God made the Earth, when in fact he did.

 

[Pako]

To answer you question about the dino's, from all the different periods, ect....You should read what the bible says about what animals were aboard the arc. Last I checked, there was no mention of different species from different periods of time that had been previously extinct. So I don't know code_kev, with your self proclaimed limited knowledge, what thread ripping you are talking about.

As far as keeping the animals under control, I'm sure God's hand had something to do with keeping order on the boat.

 

[Swift]

But less ridiculous then a giant magic boat that holds two of every animal? Your SERIOUSLY suggesting this?

Bobs fine by the way, but he's pissed that everyone thinks God made the Earth, when in fact he did.

Actually, it held a lot more then two of every land animal. But you didn't know that because the creationist theory that you're shooting to threads you don't even totally understand. At least Famine and Duke have actually READ the bible. You just throw out whatever sounds impossible.

 

[code_kev]

Sorry, I was working on the basis that you were one of those brain dead "the Earth is 6 thousand years old" types.

Actually, it held a lot more then two of every land animal. But you didn't know that because the creationist theory that you're shooting to threads you don't even totally understand. At least Famine and Duke have actually READ the bible. You just throw out whatever sounds impossible.

Actually I did know that (by sevens if it's clean or something, I cba checking). I have a copy of the bible next to me . GOPHER WOOD! .Oh and please, don't try and tell me what I can and can not understand, unlike most people I'm just honest, I don't know everything, but I know enough (more then most) to form my own opinion.
I'm not going to read it (the Bible) all for the same reason I wouldn't read "Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science", because in my eyes, it's a waste of time and full of boring...it's a word that rhymes with "clap".

It doesn't just sound impossible, it sounds ridiculous.

 

[Grand Prix]

Oh, I see you meet 'bob' to, eh? How's he doing these days?

I think it's ridiculous to think that ALL LIFE, as diverse as it is, came from the same single-celled organism. It's as unthinkable to me, as God's existences is to you.

Your point?

Well, to me that makes more sense than a God creating things out of thin air (space?). The diffrence between the two theories is evolution deals with the fact that life evolved on its own for 5 Billion Years (that's a lot of time for bacteria to become cells of bigger organisms), and with creation life was formed at the crack of a whip 6,000 years ago. Both theories make sense, but only to those who follow them.

However, the evolution theory makes more sense to me because of the fact that dinosaur fossils were found. The fact that tiny dinosaur skeletons of other species were found in the stomachs of predator dinosaurs also proves that the idea of killing and eating other species existed before Eve ate the Apple. Besides, why would God give Velociraptors teeth and claws with serated edges if they didn't have to eat other species to survive? Very puzzling......

Maybe the God Muslims, Christains, and Jews believe in is still a child of an even bigger God? Maybe "God" is a teenager that presented our universe to science class for a science project? Maybe He failed the criteria? If so, maybe it explains why so many diasters happen on Earth and why black holes exist? Maybe God was supposed to make a Universe that didn't have violence?

 

[Swift]

Sorry, I was working on the basis that you were one of those brain dead "the Earth is 6 thousand years old" types.



Actually I did know that (by sevens if it's clean or something, I cba checking). I have a copy of the bible next to me . GOPHER WOOD! .Oh and please, don't try and tell me what I can and can not understand, unlike most people I'm just honest, I don't know everything, but I know enough (more then most) to form my own opinion.
I'm not going to read it (the Bible) all for the same reason I wouldn't read "Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science", because in my eyes, it's a waste of time and full of boring...it's a word that rhymes with "clap".

It doesn't just sound impossible, it sounds ridiculous.

First, I didn't say you "couldn't" understand. I said you DIDN'T understand. Big difference. Now, if you're not willing to read a little bit into the "theory" in which you can so easily shoot wholes in, then your argument has no stance.

Grand Prix: This is the second time someone mentioned that there was no animal killing before the fall of man. This was only in the Garden. Obviously a world existed outside of the garden because they were kicked out. So, sure it's very plausible that dinos were running around eating each other.

 

[Grand Prix]

First, I didn't say you "couldn't" understand. I said you DIDN'T understand. Big difference. Now, if you're not willing to read a little bit into the "theory" in which you can so easily shoot wholes in, then your argument has no stance.

Grand Prix: This is the second time someone mentioned that there was no animal killing before the fall of man. This was only in the Garden. Obviously a world existed outside of the garden because they were kicked out. So, sure it's very plausible that dinos were running around eating each other.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

 

[Swift]

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

you guys are funny. You will believe that Life just came out of no where, but simply due to the laws of physics(that something had to set up) and after a few billion years we have people! Yay! Yep, that's so much more believable then intelligent design. Sorry, my fault.

 

[code_kev]

First, I didn't say you "couldn't" understand. I said you DIDN'T understand. Big difference. Now, if you're not willing to read a little bit into the "theory" in which you can so easily shoot wholes in, then your argument has no stance.

I've read up far more on this then you realise. Rather then try and shoot me down by trying to show I don't know what I'm talking about, show me some cold hard evidence to back up what you say. I'm an open minded person, I don't just make up my mind and stick to things, I can change. Show me that Creationism makes more sense, show me in ways that don't take blind jumps of faith.

you guys are funny. You will believe that Life just came out of no where, but simply due to the laws of physics(that something had to set up) and after a few billion years we have people! Yay! Yep, that's so much more believable then intelligent design. Sorry, my fault.

Haw haw! Your willing to believe a book wrote by people over a thousand years ago over modern science. The jokes on you.

"Oh yes, I like science, unless it disagrees with my insane views, in which case I hate it, and try and dispove it using the bible...lolz!"

 

[Grand Prix]

If you are laughing at my hypocracy, let me remind you that I'm trying to keep an open mind. I have stated on numerous occasions that God may or may not have caused the Big Bang. As Pako said before (I think it was Pako), evolution may be proof of God's existance.

 

[Touring Mars]

If you are laughing at my hypocracy, let me remind you that I'm trying to keep an open mind. I have stated on numerous occasions that God may or may not have caused the Big Bang. As Pako said before (I think it was Pako), evolution may be proof of God's existance.

That's a good point GP (and Pako)... it is really the method of Creation that we are disagreeing on here... I believe that evolution is that method... What studying evolutionary theory has shown me is that it is possible that we emerged from incredibly basic and humble beginnings, but says nothing about why, or what came before... that is always going to be open to question and is largely a point for theology to debate... ironically, evolution is creation... 💡

 

[ledhed]

How does the bible account for cave men ?

 

[Duke]

But when scientists don't know, but fail to tell you that when they explain how the human race evolved from ape like creatures, then yeah, it seems like they are just filling in the blanks for what is unknown and thereby having faith and belief in their own intellect that they can surmise what cannot be proved (at this time).

But nobody other than Creationists think that scientists claim to have a 100% answer. Scientists don't claim to know everything; it's not in their nature at all.

Here's a clue: if scientists thought they knew 100% of the origins and evolution of life, they'd quite bothering to be scientists and start playing a lot more golf.

 

[TEK[R]]

At the risk of throwing a monkeywrench into things...
What if the "Benevolent Force" created the universe/world using evolution as a tool?

Thank you. I personaly belive that God is alot greater than any of us dumb humans give him cedit for. He can do what ever he wants how ever he wants, thats the perk of being God.

 

[Pako]

If you are laughing at my hypocracy, let me remind you that I'm trying to keep an open mind. I have stated on numerous occasions that God may or may not have caused the Big Bang. As Pako said before (I think it was Pako), evolution may be proof of God's existance.

I have noticed your open mindedness and thank you for your respectful responses, even to things you disagree with or don't understand.

There are a lot of questions that neither science or the Bible can explain. The more we learn about our surroundings the more questions we have and the more we realize the less we really know.

God made Adam out of the earth. He didn't say how he did it, just that He did. As far as the "God created the earth in 6,000 literal years." theory, here's where that idea came from:

2 Peter 3:8-9 (New International Version)


[8]But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. [9]The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The point of this verse is not to qualify what God's day is equal to, but rather to compare our reference of time to God's reference of time, being the creator of time. So in other words, a day to God is a really long time to us.

I have explained this many times before, but am happy to reference it again.

 

[Grand Prix]

Maybe the earth is 6,000 God-years old?

 

[sicbeing]

Here is one.

READ THIS AND ANSWER IT, please! ty

God created Adam. This was before Adam and Eve were sentenced to death, disease, work, etc.

God is the only "being" able to exist outside the demension of time. He has always existed. He has always just, been.

Now, why, did God create time, before death?

If there was no death, then there was no aging. Or, at least I am assuming that since I wouldn't understand people would origionally age without a "final destination" (death).

This means that Adam and Eve and eveything in this garden were origionally meant to live forever. Even though Adam and Eve lived for almost one thousand years each, they were not origionally created to die. Or at least these points are not mentioned anywhere (that I've read) at the beginning of the Bible.

Now, if God origionally KNEW that adam and eve were to listen to that talking snake, then that would just boggle me even further. How would God know that? Is he just that all knowing? Can he predict the future? If so what is the purpose of BEING when he already KNOWS what's happened? (or happening, in our terms). I mean he has already BEEN in our future, hell, he IS in our future, our present, our past. We are not even a blink of an eye to him, hell, no, we never happened! He haven't happened, and we are always happening!

I wouldn't understand how something that exisit out of time could comprehend being IN time or even watching us inside time, just as we cannot fathom always-being and being-always.

Anyway. Your thoughts?

 

[Grand Prix]

Here is one.

READ THIS AND ANSWER IT, please! ty

God created Adam. This was before Adam and Eve were sentenced to death, disease, work, etc.

God is the only "being" able to exist outside the demension of time. He has always existed. He has always just, been.

Now, why, did God create time, before death?

If there was no death, then there was no aging. Or, at least I am assuming that since I wouldn't understand people would origionally age without a "final destination" (death).

This means that Adam and Eve and eveything in this garden were origionally meant to live forever. Even though Adam and Eve lived for almost one thousand years each, they were not origionally created to die. Or at least these points are not mentioned anywhere (that I've read) at the beginning of the Bible.

Now, if God origionally KNEW that adam and eve were to listen to that talking snake, then that would just boggle me even further. How would God know that? Is he just that all knowing? Can he predict the future? If so what is the purpose of BEING when he already KNOWS what's happened? (or happening, in our terms). I mean he has already BEEN in our future, hell, he IS in our future, our present, our past. We are not even a blink of an eye to him, hell, no, we never happened! He haven't happened, and we are always happening!

I wouldn't understand how something that exisit out of time could comprehend being IN time or even watching us inside time, just as we cannot fathom always-being and being-always.

Anyway. Your thoughts?

I once had a theory like that. I figured that since God was of infinite proportions, incuding the ability to travel faster than He Himself, He would not be able to alter a finite universe. He could create one, but never alter.