Curiosity - The Next Mars Lander

[CodeRedR51]

When was foil made out of tin. I'm only aware of aluminium foil. Bunch of Martian trolls on the attack, with old metal banners.
At least give a response on how powerful the rover laser is.
Probably enough to cut foil.

No response needed. That's crazy talk.

 

[Wiegert]

Haven't visited it? When do you think this was taken?

"Haven't visited" as in we haven't landed on its surface yet. I know that Galileo and New Horizons have taken closer shots of Europa.



It would be a bit of a stretch for the ESA to send a spacecraft out to Europa though, but since the Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer was announced by the ESA recently there's still a chance we could send a craft there in the near future, along with 2 other Jovian moons. Landing on it would pose a bigger challenge to whoever decides to try and pull it off.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think we should just start off with something a little cheaper and doesn't so much more than take photographs and sniff the air.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Electrical power of 110W can be given to the laser but of what spec the laser is built to I dont know. For research purposes the laser uses 14mj in 5 nano second bursts. "megawatts per square millimetre" apparently. Can vaporise bits of rock 7m (23ft) away.

 

[Dennisch]

Electrical power of 110W can be given to the laser but of what spec the laser is built to I dont know. For research purposes the laser uses 14mj in 5 nano second bursts. "megawatts per square millimetre" apparently. Can vaporise bits of rock 7m (23ft) away.

Now all we have to do is wait for the Russians or Chinese to get a robot to Mars.

Robo-Wars, the Marsian chapter.

 

[arora]

That would drum up the media attention and public support

Can we text in who we think will get laserorized first for a small fee?

 

[BlisteredHand]

Nasa has already set themselves up to be the perfect target by repeatedly being excruciatingly patriotic over the Mission. If I was part of the China leadership I would be distracted from the Moon for awhile and send a priority kill mission to Mars. Though it may likely be more covert and involve jamming technology or data hacking and manipulation at first.
One proposal would be to do a Mars research impactor test to see what gets raised up in the dust from a high energy impactor, ...."it is with great regret and sorrow we must announce the impactor accidentally and mysteriously went straight into the USA rover area of operations..". (goes the public apology from China).

 

[CodeRedR51]

Hey Blistered, can we just not talking about that crap? Screams fairy tail to me and pretty stupid.

 

[Zenith]

Considering how crap every other nation has been at getting to Mars (ask Russia!), it should be a while before they can launch a precision tactical strike...

Back on topic, I think there are lots of reasons why sending rovers to Mars excites people more than sending a probe to Jupiter.

-Mars is special. It reminds people of Earth and is one of the favorite "mysteries in our back yard." It will also be the first planet we terraform (unless humans go extinct) which makes it all the more exciting.

-A rover roaming the surface is a more interesting picture than a probe shooting overhead. It reminds us that we may walk alongside a Mars rover some day. The pictures it brings back will also be on surface level, almost as if the viewer was standing on the planet.

-This mission was highly publicized. I went to the Ames Curiosity Event and there were about 6,000 people attending. The 7 minutes of terror definitely excites people. It's easy to understand and therefore be impressed by. People like risks. The landing gives them a chance to root for a good outcome, a bit like a sport.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Ok I can stop with the non science research related theories. But you agree that it is only US citizens and government that unambiguously applaud the Nasa success here. Space ability is a show of strength and other countries do not like being overshadowed. Personally I'm delighted at this new rover and the science that will come from it, but also I expect conflict. And I hope that conflict comes soon as it shows a healthy balance of powers on Earth. How that conflict shows itself is of course speculation and can be saved for another discussion. (I hope the conflict is based around outdoing each other with technology rather than direct destruction) I appreciate this is Curiosity specific discussion, but it related to Curiosity's future mission health and lifespan.
Unlike the conflicts we have had under the sea with sub on sub warfare unseen by the population of the world, we know a bit more about what happens with space craft. So it's likely to be more tactful posturing.

@Zenith013 Russian space command have been very suspicious and accusatory over USA about Russia's failed Missions, saying it has been sabotaged. That has been fairly rebutted. But using plain logic putting myself in the mind of leadership of course you want to stop any other country from being successful in Space if you can do that.

A bit like stuxnet etc with the attacks on Iran, it needs to be either covert or know that you can't really be punished for doing what you do.
Difficult times are ahead, and for that reason we might just be entering a massive new space age.
Which is exciting.

 

[Antonisbob]

Wonder if it'll stumble across their old rovers. That'd be cool.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And I hope that conflict comes soon as it shows a healthy balance of powers on Earth.

Ok yeah, just stop now.

Thanks.

 

[arora]

He is right about competition though, it got us to the moon didn't it?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Competition is fine. But trying to blow up each others rovers is crazy.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Competition is fine. But trying to blow up each others rovers is crazy.

No you think it is crazy, there is a difference. I think you are in a dream world of harmony at the moment, perhaps due to the euphoric success of this mission.
If things get nasty between China and America, it's good news for space enthusiasts.
Just like if you were interested in submarines it was excellent to see the amazing scale and technology progression of the Navy nuclear submarines over the decades of Cold War. Hundreds of people living sealed deep under the sea for months at a time. Hugely expensive yet only required to maintain a security interest and demonstration of power.
Same applies for space/planets/moons.
With Russia diminished in the cold war big space events dwindled and settled to more science practical missions. With China beating it's drum now, expect to see less purely science related missions and more "big stuff".

 

[Wiegert]

Well in cases like that, competition drives innovation. It's happened before and it's bound to happen again at some point in the future, but having say, the USA and China reducing themselves to blowing up rovers in order to slow down the competition seems far-fetched.

 

[Tornado]

I may not know as much about the subject as, say, Danoff, but I'm still pretty sure it isn't in China's best interest to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to launch things into space with the intent of sabotaging NASA missions.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Well in cases like that, competition drives innovation. It's happened before and it's bound to happen again at some point in the future, but having say, the USA and China reducing themselves to blowing up rovers in order to slow down the competition seems far-fetched.

I may not know as much about the subject as, say, Danoff, but I'm still pretty sure it isn't in China's best interest to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to launch things into space with the intent of sabotaging NASA missions.

Agreed 100%.

/back on topic

 

[arora]

Maybe some good ol fashioned espionage or cyber attack.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Ok the ultimate goal is to be better and stronger than USA that is a given (For any country that is not USA obviously, same would apply if it was China as the top current superpower). In order to achieve that you must fairly outpace them in technology and spending, or realign the balance by sabotage and or stealing. Whichever the best method is on a case by case basis. If right now the best method is to outspend on space,China can trythat, it also can steal technology and is known for it's cyber-attacks. If it can create an accident it might also do that. Whatever the method, Nasa is out there as a viable target to be suppressed.
It depends on how aggressive and fast you want to be.
Although there is no security reason to protect interests on Mars now, there might be in 100 years time or even 200 years time. You can't just let another country be able to have controlled or autonomous vehicles or stations on another planet, it's not acceptable. Something will happen. The mildest way is the space race, but in a panic, active aggression may occur, and in anticipation of that "potential" panic or rash order from an opposing country, counter measures need to be in place. USA has no option but to either suspend space projects or develop a military security aspect alongside them.
It's cold war. It's inevitable when more than one country has power.

 

[Tornado]

I'm pretty sure when we left our stuff on the moon 40 years ago the Soviets didn't hatch grandiose plans to send things up there for no other reason than to break it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Anyway......

Should be getting full color photos in the next couple days or so. May take up to a week for large, full resolution images.

 

[arora]

Anyway... it's relevant enough isn't it?

We're all waiting for some pics and also findings that will take months to roll in.

 

[BlisteredHand]

I'm pretty sure when we left our stuff on the moon 40 years ago the Soviets didn't hatch grandiose plans to send things up there for no other reason than to break it.

They would have done but were struggling to keep the whole cold war effort going. They were not able to compete. But of course they had plans to "take them out". Just like they had real and viable plans and the actual real ability to kill every citizen of the united states with nuclear weapons. And it very nearly happened in the Cuba situation. First come the plans and speculations then the activity to prevent the other side doing it to you. The activity to prevent the other side doing it to you triggers the other side to act even if they had no real intentions in the first place.
China has no option but to match a Mars mission or stop USA from doing any more. If this does not occur then it it because they are unable, not because they don't want to.
Security will likely occur in small stages. China should now do a rover with better capabilities than Curiosity or a manned mission. Or China may demonstrate a destructive power, if in the foreseeable future it can not be seen to out pace USA in space tech.
It might just launch another anti satellite missile.
There are many options. Doing nothing is not an option.



*****
For myself I'm also looking forward to some nice hi-res colour pictures. Can this new rover do video?
Would be nice to watch a dust storm in real time on the horizon of Mars.

 

[FoolKiller]

Wonder if it'll stumble across their old rovers. That'd be cool.

Too far apart. Besides Curiosity will spend most of its life climbing that mountain in the background of the most recent picture. That is a mountain, inside a crater, that is different from the craters that Opportunity and Spirit landed in (opposite sides of the planet from each other). Opportunity has been operating since 2004, with a six week period of being stuck in a sand dune. In that time it has clocked 21 miles on its odometer.

They are spread out and move at less than 1 mph. If they met it would most likely be that they have run out of mission ideas (keep in mind Opportunity had an expected 90 day mission but they have found 8 years worth of things to do) and want them to meet up for a photo op.

No you think it is crazy, there is a difference. I think you are in a dream world of harmony at the moment, perhaps due to the euphoric success of this mission.

Or he could wondering why China has allowed us to have a space station, three other Martian rovers, and orbital craft around planets all over the solar system without one inexplicably being destroyed. Or even better yet, how they would have allowed us to flaunt private business run space flights recently. If Communist China wanted to stop anything it would be a huge display of capitalism doing it better and cheaper.

With China beating it's drum now, expect to see less purely science related missions and more "big stuff".

Like canceling manned space flight and turning launches over to civilian enterprise?

Sorry, but while your 100-200 years prediction might have some truth to it (as well as a million other equally possible scenarios), your ideas of them attacking this rover makes no sense based on actual reality.

 

[BlisteredHand]

I don't think Chinese communism and American capitalism is of any concern to China, largely irrelevant, China does not care how America runs itself as an entity as long as China can tell America what to do and with the power to back it up. That is all any honest country wants.

I understand your point about Nasa cancelling space shuttle and cutting things down. But it was doing so from an advanced authority position in the world. It had no real need or justification. Now it still spends highly on military functions. And with China developing into space and with ambitious plans. America will be active with significant projects and missions. This may come from dedicated military budget not science based funding. If America actually can't do this then we can already announce China as the new superpower within a small number of years. And America being on the back foot and resorting to disrupt China's space programme.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Fan of China much? You seem to like talking about them.

 

[photonrider]

I don't think the AUP discourages discussion about China - if relevant to the topic.
Reagan's 'Star Wars' wasn't an illusion. And China has a great interest in Space - already having many objects taking space up there. China also witheld the US Spy plane that strayed into its territory. Taking a look at its Air superiority from a US Military POV is not very comforting.

Much more scary, though, is if we upset the Martians. Ack ack.

But then, there is that 14 minute time-lag that's going to keep us fiddling in the past with a future that has already happened.

 

[Robin]

I wonder if there is any footage from the skycrane looking down or the rover looking up as it was being lowered, would seem silly not to have a camera capturing that epic moment! I'm hoping that stuff will get released soon.

 

[FoolKiller]

China does not care how America runs itself as an entity as long as China can tell America what to do and with the power to back it up. That is all any honest country wants.

They are doing that financially. No need for unsubstantiated red scare stories.