Custom VisionRacer VR3. D-box motion, Dual TH8s, Triple projection.
- Thread starter Mayaman
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- Japan / Seattle
1080p 3D projectors are tough to choose from because there are so few that people have tested for input lag. I love my Panasonic AE7000 but I wouldn't recommend it for a racing rig due to the price as well as the input lag. Don't get me wrong, it's not horrible input lag, but it is absolutely noticeable when coming from high performance monitors.
I'd love to be able to give you some recommendations, but you are in mostly new territory. Best of luck!
I'd love to be able to give you some recommendations, but you are in mostly new territory. Best of luck!
Mayaman
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OK no worries. I'll keep doing some research. I may just keep the screen's and qumi's for Xbox/PS3/PS4/Xbox720 duty with my other chassis.
But with the large curved screen from Northern Flight sim, I don't think the Qumi's will cut it for what I want. I want a beast projector that will burn my retina's. LOL
But with the large curved screen from Northern Flight sim, I don't think the Qumi's will cut it for what I want. I want a beast projector that will burn my retina's. LOL
Mr Latte
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Hope I can help here a little guys.
DLP projectors unlike LCD based projectors do not suffer from lag.
A DLP projector can be amongst the best for 3D as it has virtually no crosstalk. To get such a gaming or 3D performance with LCD based you really need to spend much more money, something like the Panasonic for example but as Superbike says it still has a little lag. Well even Asus 27" Nvidia monitors, which are amongst the best 3D vision products have lag so the problem is also evident on monitors too.
On the downside, DLP performance is reflected in the colour wheel speed that for some viewers can produce "rainbow effects". I do not personally notice it much, sometimes but my GT750 have only I believe a 2x speed wheel. Overall video quality on sub $1000 projectors will lack a little in sheer detail,colour accuracy and black levels. However the performance these days is amazing compared to several years ago.
Check out Linus Tech tips on YouTube.
Search for the recently released BenQ W1070. Trusted Reviews have covered it although not for some reason from a gaming perspective.
Main benefits are that it uses a 6x speed wheel, has dark chip 3 technology and is the first available projector to offer short throw in 1080p with 3D compatibility. Also with ECO mode it boasts upto 6000 hrs bulb life. Basically perfect at a great price point too.
I have one due next week, so may do a thread on it...
Look forward to your new room and updates Mayaman, it will be awesome no doubts
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Mayaman
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Ah that makes sense why I don't see lag with my DLP beemers. I also don't suffer from Rainbows. Great to know. I'll check out that projector, sounds like what I'm looking for.
yeah, I've been short on updates because the purchasing of this new house has been excruciating with all the back and fourth counter offers. But finally, I think I have it. 3400 square feet of awesomeness with a 800 square foot sim room!!! Hopefully in a couple of months I'll have some updates and pics.
yeah, I've been short on updates because the purchasing of this new house has been excruciating with all the back and fourth counter offers. But finally, I think I have it. 3400 square feet of awesomeness with a 800 square foot sim room!!! Hopefully in a couple of months I'll have some updates and pics.
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I use HD33 just for 3D bluray and it's a stunner. However the lack of lens shift and limited zoom are it's main limitation.
I see RBE so cant use one for 2D but I never see it in 3D, I'm sure there must be a reason for that
I see RBE so cant use one for 2D but I never see it in 3D, I'm sure there must be a reason for that
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
Alan from VVV was talking with me recently and I had arranged a friend to bring me his Optoma 300X 1080p model. I had intended trying to help Alan decide on a suitable projector. The friend let me down but I sent Alan some photos and general opinion.
See his latest video as he was wanting to do the "Remco" idea but found he really suffered with the RBE. I will certainly compare this new BenQ to the GT750 which wasnt bad, a bit grainy/digitized look with it's 720p res but generally very good model for gaming. I can't complain selling one on ebay for £500 and the new BenQ costing only £719 delivered with a free 3 metre HDMI cable.
I'd like to maybe do a new thread anyways as their are several knocking about these forums that are going with, already have experience in multi-screen projection and really it would be good to talk about the pitfalls with various types or models and issues. Where has Mike got to?
I have looked into it for sometime but not yet fully decided, each option I consider I find issues or stumbling blocks.
Mayaman, you sure that is a big enough house, lol.
See his latest video as he was wanting to do the "Remco" idea but found he really suffered with the RBE. I will certainly compare this new BenQ to the GT750 which wasnt bad, a bit grainy/digitized look with it's 720p res but generally very good model for gaming. I can't complain selling one on ebay for £500 and the new BenQ costing only £719 delivered with a free 3 metre HDMI cable.
I'd like to maybe do a new thread anyways as their are several knocking about these forums that are going with, already have experience in multi-screen projection and really it would be good to talk about the pitfalls with various types or models and issues. Where has Mike got to?
I have looked into it for sometime but not yet fully decided, each option I consider I find issues or stumbling blocks.
Mayaman, you sure that is a big enough house, lol.
Mayman,
Always excited to hear about your upgrades, but something to consider with the HD33 is that I am pretty confident you can't do 1080p gaming on it in 3D at above 24 frames per second. It accepts 1080p 3D sources @ 24 Hz for each eye only (for 24 Hz bluray movies), or can do 3D at 120Hz at 720p (60 fps per eye.)
As for triple screen, if you're using Nvidia 3D Vision Surround on a PC, that won't support the HD33 since it's an HDMI 1.4 projector, and the only option there is Nvidia 3DTV Play (720p) but that only supports a single screen. You may be able to fool the Nvidia drivers that you are using a 3D Vision capable projector like the Acer with that .inf, but that's only 720p x 3, and if that's the case, the AV professional side of me says you're better off using a 720p projector to show 720p than downscaling on a 1080p projector.
If for triples you are using a hardware splitter box and/or Eyfinity instead of Nvidia, I'm not as schooled on that, but I still think you can't get past the HDMI input limitation of 24 fps in 1080p 3D on the HD33 (or any available projector that I'm aware of)
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
Mikes right about the 1080p 3D.
Aren't all HDMI 1.4 TV/Projectors limited to 1080/24 when taking 3D into account? The current spec does not have the bandwidth.
Using the ACER inf. file should trick the GFX card to think the projector your using is a certified ACER, so it should be compatible with "Surround Gaming" of course only then offer 720p. This may not work with all models neither.
With a past Panasonic 1080p model I had the scaling worked fine with a 720p source, yes it might not be super sharp in a desktop with text but with video or games seemed fine.
The other problems I have come across are that Eyefinity 3D requires DP, something you won't yet find on many projectors. Also Nvidia and AMD support no more than 3 screens in 3D so considering 5x Portrait would not be ideal neither.
Maybe a thread on discussing experiences we all have discovered and considered might not be a bad ideal after all. Curious about the Nvidia option/requirements with 1080x3 2D. Is their an inf. file for a 1080p certified projector? None are listed on Nvidia's website, but it isn't exactly upto date. Would a 1080p monitor inf. file work for a projector, both being HDMI and 1080p?
The whole thing is one big headache.
I did notice that this new BenQ is listed at also supporting UXGA 1600x1200 @60Hz
Aren't all HDMI 1.4 TV/Projectors limited to 1080/24 when taking 3D into account? The current spec does not have the bandwidth.
Using the ACER inf. file should trick the GFX card to think the projector your using is a certified ACER, so it should be compatible with "Surround Gaming" of course only then offer 720p. This may not work with all models neither.
With a past Panasonic 1080p model I had the scaling worked fine with a 720p source, yes it might not be super sharp in a desktop with text but with video or games seemed fine.
The other problems I have come across are that Eyefinity 3D requires DP, something you won't yet find on many projectors. Also Nvidia and AMD support no more than 3 screens in 3D so considering 5x Portrait would not be ideal neither.
Maybe a thread on discussing experiences we all have discovered and considered might not be a bad ideal after all. Curious about the Nvidia option/requirements with 1080x3 2D. Is their an inf. file for a 1080p certified projector? None are listed on Nvidia's website, but it isn't exactly upto date. Would a 1080p monitor inf. file work for a projector, both being HDMI and 1080p?
The whole thing is one big headache.
I did notice that this new BenQ is listed at also supporting UXGA 1600x1200 @60Hz
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- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
I would think with a curved screen and warping software you could achieve the desired results with only 2 or 3 projectors.
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
I think again, not certain that for 5 you need Eyefinity for that and a supporting card. Only a few cards support 5 or even 6 outputs at once. Not all 7970 for example do. This also brings an issue as some of those displays I believe must use DP connections, if not then adapters. Yes their are other ways to achieve such with other hardware or software but not an out of box solution for HDMI or projectors.
Really it seems that projectors are not being manufactured to properly accommodate this issue. If so we would have certified Display Port models available.
Regards screens and I know this is something Mike and some others have spent along time with. Just some of my own thoughts so please correct me or give your own opinions.
For me 16:9 is too shallow really, maybe more so a problem for flight sims. Triple 16:9 is too wide to an extent going beyond our real FOV.
I have been told by a local pilot for British Airways that regards simulators a large curved screen is fantastic with a large open world with far reaching area and draw distance. So perfect for a flight simulator and being up in the sky. His opinion for such on a cockpit would be visually more limited simply because a typical racing game the draw distance or the open world of the track is much more confined. Also in a race car your not needing to look up/down into the virtual world anywhere as much compared to a flight sim.
Remco has shown with altering a games FOV and a screen up close perhaps to get around the shallowness of 16:9 he can achieve a superb realism in scale. I know you guys, Mayaman and Mike have done several screen layouts and perhaps achieved similar.
Personally for me I think I will go for that kind of realism in scale but using the width of 16:9 to wrap right around for the side doors. So keep the screens up close like Remco has but with triples? See how many of the triple monitor guys do this idea to get 180 degrees viewing yet try to maximise being in the car not having full triple screens in FOV at all times. It no doubt also helps increase the size of their screens.
The problem is you cannot get say a 25-50" tall screen (for realistic cockpit depending on viewing distance) unless the projectors are far back. You then like he had was shadows or projection onto yourself. With a model like the W1070 this is super easy to achieve either from rear projection or ceiling mounted units at a short range. DLP short throw 1080p may be the best route to go and it supporting 1600x1200 could be an option as Mike you seem to of went back to 4:3. Anyways I am hopeful...
No doubt more similar models will be appearing this year, if only they were certified and had DP or support with triple HDMI.
By all means feedback or opinions are welcomed.
Have any of you tried this?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18426574
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Mayaman
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Latte good points. Im going with a large field of view both vertically and horizontally rear projection from Simpit. I tried the large dome concept but couldn't get the brightness I wanted. Im adjusting the current screens I have which in reality are are awesome and large enough, its just about being bored lol and starting new projects. But I'm going to explore simpits solution as its seems almost perfect.
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
Ok, look forward to see how you get on once you get settled in the new house.
Not sure if it was Simpits but I seen a brand that offered self housed rear projection on a large scale. Looked really good but the cost some companies charge is ludicrous.
I am not convinced curved is the best thing for myself. Want to maintain console compatibility, preferably with no extra screens or warping/stretching.
Got a lot on my own plate too with the further audio/tactile upgrades which comes first. Although look forward to discussions with you guys in sharing experiences regards the projectors. If only Nvidia made 3DTV Play projectors compatible with 3D surround and not limited to one display. The same principle that PS3 or XBOX 360 allows with multi-consoles for GT5/Forza but powered by one or more graphics cards.
3D via multi-projectors seems to be too much of a headache and with 4K etc due to be more mainstream in a couple of years, being more affordable in 3-4. I doubt very much 720p 3D will still seem adequate. So any huge investment now into it may be rather short lived.
The consumer market has the following already becoming available and in the next few years:
21:9 / glasses free 3D / 4x 1080p / 1080p 60Hz 3D and likely 48Hz for movies.
Personally I doubt PS4 etc will support multi-screens like PC, something others think will happen. Games at such resolutions and graphical detail will once again be maxing the abilities of the console on a single screen. I doubt the thinking that developers will only produce games that use 1/3 of its abilities to then enable triple display for many if any games.
The mainstream consumer electronic market isn't interested in multi-screens but they will be interested in 4K when the future delivery medium/media is available.
I think I will make do with triple 1080p in 2D and 3DTV play for one projector for now...
Maybe if prices fall on Nvidia 3D monitors I might consider that option for high res 3D mutliscreen enjoyment.
As always great to get other peoples own ideas and thoughts..
Not sure if it was Simpits but I seen a brand that offered self housed rear projection on a large scale. Looked really good but the cost some companies charge is ludicrous.
I am not convinced curved is the best thing for myself. Want to maintain console compatibility, preferably with no extra screens or warping/stretching.
Got a lot on my own plate too with the further audio/tactile upgrades which comes first. Although look forward to discussions with you guys in sharing experiences regards the projectors. If only Nvidia made 3DTV Play projectors compatible with 3D surround and not limited to one display. The same principle that PS3 or XBOX 360 allows with multi-consoles for GT5/Forza but powered by one or more graphics cards.
3D via multi-projectors seems to be too much of a headache and with 4K etc due to be more mainstream in a couple of years, being more affordable in 3-4. I doubt very much 720p 3D will still seem adequate. So any huge investment now into it may be rather short lived.
The consumer market has the following already becoming available and in the next few years:
21:9 / glasses free 3D / 4x 1080p / 1080p 60Hz 3D and likely 48Hz for movies.
Personally I doubt PS4 etc will support multi-screens like PC, something others think will happen. Games at such resolutions and graphical detail will once again be maxing the abilities of the console on a single screen. I doubt the thinking that developers will only produce games that use 1/3 of its abilities to then enable triple display for many if any games.
The mainstream consumer electronic market isn't interested in multi-screens but they will be interested in 4K when the future delivery medium/media is available.
I think I will make do with triple 1080p in 2D and 3DTV play for one projector for now...
Maybe if prices fall on Nvidia 3D monitors I might consider that option for high res 3D mutliscreen enjoyment.
As always great to get other peoples own ideas and thoughts..
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Uh oh, guess who just ordered three ultra-short-throw XGA 3D projectors to try out? Couldn't resist. I was hoping for an LED lamp-less model next time, but have not seen an affordable one like the Qumi with short throw lens (and especially in 4:3 which I prefer for triples.) Trying to make these side projectors with standard lenses work from behind my seat is a pain.
Since I came across a one-day, until sold out deal on Woot! for only $299 ea. for an ultra-short-thow refurb model which goes for $1k+ each new, I couldn't resist. Should be able to make my triple ~50" 4:3 images from only about a foot of throw distance with these puppies, leaving much more room and floor space around my driving seat. I'll be sure to report back and on my YouTube channel once they arrive and I have 'em set up.
PS- if anyone is interested in lightly used 3D ready DLP projectors, I likely will have several available for a steal. Currently have one or two Optoma GT700 or GT720 short throw models (720p widescreen), plus two Viewsonic 2500 lumen XGA 3D Vision projectors, and perhaps an Acer 720p 3D model (the latter 3 all have zoom lenses but need to sit further from the screen than the Optoma.) All would be under $500 each, some even less. Send me a PM if anything interests you.
Sorry for the mild thread hijack!
Since I came across a one-day, until sold out deal on Woot! for only $299 ea. for an ultra-short-thow refurb model which goes for $1k+ each new, I couldn't resist. Should be able to make my triple ~50" 4:3 images from only about a foot of throw distance with these puppies, leaving much more room and floor space around my driving seat. I'll be sure to report back and on my YouTube channel once they arrive and I have 'em set up.
PS- if anyone is interested in lightly used 3D ready DLP projectors, I likely will have several available for a steal. Currently have one or two Optoma GT700 or GT720 short throw models (720p widescreen), plus two Viewsonic 2500 lumen XGA 3D Vision projectors, and perhaps an Acer 720p 3D model (the latter 3 all have zoom lenses but need to sit further from the screen than the Optoma.) All would be under $500 each, some even less. Send me a PM if anything interests you.
Sorry for the mild thread hijack!
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No problem Mike, its not a thread jack at all. It's all relevant.
I might be interested in the projectors, shoot me a PM with more specifics.
Thanks, once I know in a week or so what I'm keeping, what some friends may want, etc.., I will be sure to PM you w/ the specifics of which I'm trying to get rid of.
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
Nice going Mike, sounds like a real bargin..
I will be keen to see how the WUXGA – 1920 X 1200 4:3 looks like on this new Benq with the higher 1080p native. Any reason you went for 4:3. Just that well the 1024x768 gives no benefit with vertical resolution over 16:10 / 16:9 720p. Am I missing something?
No doubts the extra wide throw could be handy for installation...
I watched Avengers with this unit tonight at 105" screen and the quality is really pleasing. Blacks could be a bit darker but they are a big improvement over the GT750 as is the image accordingly. Performance I would say is not that far off what the Panasonic AE2000 (1080) offered for £2000 only a few years ago.
Crap quick photo but give you an idea guys...
Oh and finally a FREEZE option again...
I will be keen to see how the WUXGA – 1920 X 1200 4:3 looks like on this new Benq with the higher 1080p native. Any reason you went for 4:3. Just that well the 1024x768 gives no benefit with vertical resolution over 16:10 / 16:9 720p. Am I missing something?
No doubts the extra wide throw could be handy for installation...
I watched Avengers with this unit tonight at 105" screen and the quality is really pleasing. Blacks could be a bit darker but they are a big improvement over the GT750 as is the image accordingly. Performance I would say is not that far off what the Panasonic AE2000 (1080) offered for £2000 only a few years ago.
Crap quick photo but give you an idea guys...
Oh and finally a FREEZE option again...
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Mr Latte
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- Christchurch
Hi Mayaman
Great work on the rig, beautiful set up and def something I will be working towards. In the meantime wondering if you could help me with a situation regardi the Buttkicker. I had it mounted on the top of the back base pipe behind the seat on the VR3 (Buttkicker clamped around a socket drilled and bolted into the tube). Due to the constant shaking it split the plastic connectors tht hold the pipes together. Managed to get some new ones but don't want to keep breaking them. Did you find a way of mounting the Buttkicker to the VR3 in a way which is immersive but doesn't put too much stress on any part of the tubing or connectors. I haven't used it since and keen to use it again
Mayaman
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My VR3 is fully welded with steel sleeves. No plastic left on the rig. Any muffler shop will do it for around 150 bucks. Worth every penny. Make sure to bring the entire rig including the plastic pieces so he can recreate the neck piece and create holes for wires. Make sure everything is lined up on the garage floor because if not you may get a crooked steering deck and the seat wont line up. But once done its sweet. This latest VR3 edition will definately make it the stiffest wheel deck out there.
I placed my buttkicker right under the seat. I used two small steel plates, one on each side and ran a bolt through with a socket under the seat. Attach buttkicker to socket.
Take care removing the seat fabric.
I placed my buttkicker right under the seat. I used two small steel plates, one on each side and ran a bolt through with a socket under the seat. Attach buttkicker to socket.
Take care removing the seat fabric.
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