Cutting corners.

[xpfloyd]

Looks to me like the issue there was he was using the barrier as a brake, not cutting a corner.

Totally agree. It seems obvious to me that this would be deemed illegal. As for cutting the corner on this years TT I am also of the opinion that if the game allows it then its simply legal. We have no evidence to the contrary

 

[daan]

Real drivers are CONSTANTLY trying to exploit the rules to their fullest extent, thats their job! Look at what happened in F1 at Monza in 2008. Drivers were cutting the chicanes the MAXIMUM they possibly could, so in 2009 they revised the curbing to counter it.

So they saw cheating then countered it after the event? Who is to say PD/Sony/Nissan won't do the same this time? (as they also did last time with the guy in the video above)

Looks to me like the issue there was he was using the barrier as a brake, not cutting a corner. The Indianapolis track doesn't lend itself to such abuse and I don't foresee them disqualifying people for cutting a corner that was allowed by the rules of the demo.

Cheating is cheating. Bouncing off the walls to help you turn is cheating. cutting a corner to make it faster/make the cicuit shorter is cheating. The guy in the video above followed the rules, but was still DQ'd.

If you want to drive the track the way you think it should be, then do so, but don't complain when they don't disqualify those who got a faster lap time by abiding by the demo's rules, just not following your imaginary made-up rules.

I'm not complaining, just giving my opinion, and I will continue to drive within my own imaginary made up rules (which just so happen to be the same as the WRS...)

 

[GTP_rpm]

Yes, but the aim of this is to find a real racing driver so, in my view, this should be driven properly.


Here's his lap

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3092739&postcount=765

Thanks for sharing the lap.

I think there is a huge contrast between that and what some of us are doing. It's still only your view...until PD or whoever clearly stipulates the boundaries of what's acceptable and what isn't, none of us can decide. I am not making a definate attempt to cut that final corner, but sometimes it happens.

If you were 21st place and took the line perfectly and the top 20 were all cutting the final corner, do you honestly think they'll disregard the top 20 and select those who did not? It would be massively controversial if they did. If you know of anyway to get clarification I'm all ears.

 

[The Outlaw]

Thanks for sharing the lap.

I think there is a huge contrast between that and what some of us are doing. It's still only your view...until PD or whoever clearly stipulates the boundaries of what's acceptable and what isn't, none of us can decide. I am not making a definate attempt to cut that final corner, but sometimes it happens.

If you were 21st place and took the line perfectly and the top 20 were all cutting the final corner, do you honestly think they'll disregard the top 20 and select those who did not? It would be massively controversial if they did. If you know of anyway to get clarification I'm all ears.

I agree.

It would be a robbery IMO if they did happen to disqualify such laps, especially considering they don't even give you any method to remove your leaderboard lap times, which you may be unable to beat or replicate come deadline.

 

[U4IK ST8]

Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx). He cuts that corner and goes wide off the track.

 

[slicecom]

Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx). He cuts that corner and goes wide off the track.

Checkmate.

/thread

 

[ItsHim]

Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx). He cuts that corner and goes wide off the track.

If I would be able to find it

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx). He cuts that corner and goes wide off the track.

^^ This.
I really can't see how driving the same lines like the creator of the game is cheating.
Watching KY's lap it looks like he's just driving the optimal line around the track, just like a racedriver would.
I understand following your own rules is important, but cutting the track like this isn't really cheating IMO because it's all tarmac ( and just about anyone in the top 250s seems doing it )

Would be interesting to see a RL race for comparison...

 

[ItsHim]

Would be interesting to see a RL race for comparison...

There's some F1 footage on YouTube, I just mislaid the links, sorry. But it's there if you dig.

They do cut the corner, too, but don't run over the kerbs at the exit of the penultimate corner (with the whole width of the car). In fact they take it rather tight.

More or less the extremely wide running made me a bit frown, but I think Ordonez also did it to an extent, which can be seen in the video in the news section.

 

[slicecom]

There's some F1 footage on YouTube, I just mislaid the links, sorry. But it's there if you dig.

They do cut the corner, too, but don't run over the kerbs at the exit of the penultimate corner (with the whole width of the car). In fact they take it rather tight.

More or less the extremely wide running made me a bit frown, but I think Ordonez also did it to an extent, which can be seen in the video in the news section.

Can't really compare an F1 cars' lines to a street car though. An F1 car is so low, they probably can't cut the corner that much without wrecking the sensitive aero bits underneath the car.

 

[ItsHim]

Just to add a bit to the confusion

In F1 the cut this corner:

Cut a corner = putting no more than two wheels on the kerbs, over the line, whatever, NOT putting the whole damn car over the line with all four tyres. That's how I use "cutting a corner".

Edit:
The line that bugs me is in the still shot I attached. In the F1 footage I've seen they don't run wide at all. As I already said, in the replay the cars actually disappear behind the camera.

 

[Worst_Driver]

Shame on me, I've cutted this corner accidentently but fortunately I plan to improve my lap without cutting corners.

 

[ItsHim]

I still stand by my original opinion: if the game doesn't punish, it's valid.

For future online races in GT5, every lobby is free to (hopefully) agree what is frowned upon and what not. I never was too fond of the shortcuts on Laguna Seca, Sunset and Sebring in Forza2.

But I only voice my opinion and am in no position nor willing to shame anyone. Go get the Top 20 times guys!

 

[IsmokeGT]

It would be a robbery IMO if they did happen to disqualify such laps, especially considering they don't even give you any method to remove your leaderboard lap times, which you may be unable to beat or replicate come deadline.

For the one reason stated here, there is no way that any "corner cutting" going on during this TT is considered cheating.

 

[Gaviao_pt]

Absolutely. There's a point at which the game decides that you're cutting too much and it's invalid. If you don't reach that point, in this particular competition, the lap is valid.

 

[G.T.Ace]

The line that bugs me is in the still shot I attached. In the F1 footage I've seen they don't run wide at all. As I already said, in the replay the cars actually disappear behind the camera.

They dont drive over this line in the F1 because they dont need to, the "cars" have so much downforce that they only drive there to get more momentum for the banked right after that. You can even experience that in the demo with the tuned Z.

 

[ItsHim]

Please don't tell me they actually race this track both forward and in reverse in real life. That would be (at least) the second time today I made a major bummer.

G.T.Ace

quite so.

 

[G.T.Ace]

They drive it "reverse" in the MotoGP plus another chicane:

 

[Jay]

Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx). He cuts that corner and goes wide off the track.

Watching his lap



He doesn't cut turn 11 and at the end he still keeps two tyres on the track.

 

[G.T.Ace]

According to the official site his time is 1'49.227.

 

[ItsHim]

They drive it "reverse" in the MotoGP plus another chicane

So the kerbs I was so busy going on about could very well mark the corner entry for the MotoGP course?!

Dash it all. I think I'll leave this to more capable hands

 

[Sphinx]

In the last GT Academy many times where removed from the leader boards. It was an on going process that the official moderators of the competition undertook whilst the competition was in full flight.

i_am_egg's removal was slightly different for reasons of somehow managing to slip through the radar and he got as far as receiving an invite to attend the National Finals. His DQ only came about when a complaint was received regarding his run did the officials review his replay and took the appropriate action.

Those here who carry the notion that if the game allows it, then it must be legal, are playing a very dangerous game as the details above show. Don't fool yourself into thinking that hitting a wall to gain an advantage is any different than cutting a corner to gain an advantage, because it's not.

That said however, you, the world and I have no idea how the powers that be will view this sort of behavior. For all we know they could be working on a patch right now to deal with the problem (if they see it as a problem), like they did for turn two at Suzuka in GT5P, and remove those times they may deem dirty from the leader board. But then again they may not. Food for thought though.

On a final note;
I'm a tad surprised regarding the opinions of some well seasoned OLR drivers in this thread. I'm trying to convince myself that they are just trying to justify themselves due to the pressures of being able to compete on a level playing field. But surely, after competing under standard OLR rules that all mayor GT sites have adhered to for years one would've thought that integrity would come way before condoning an action that we've spent 10 years preventing. But I guess I'm just being naive again. 🤬

 

[U4IK ST8]

Watching his lap

...

He doesn't cut turn 11 and at the end he still keeps two tyres on the track.

That's not the right lap. I said "Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx)."

I noticed he improved his time so I downloaded his replay and I was seriously suprised to see him go off the track and cut turn 11 with all 4 wheels off the track. I haven't needed to do it yet, I'm 1st in Ireland with two clean laps.

 

[Jay]

Ah I didn't realise he posted a faster time, will have to check it... sometime.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

So the kerbs I was so busy going on about could very well mark the corner entry for the MotoGP course?!

Nope. The version of Indianapolis in the GT5 demo is from before the MotoGP configuration was built in 2008. While the MotoGP layout was under construction, turns 9 and 10 from the F1 layout were completely removed all together.

 

[xpfloyd]

This might not be the politicaly correct racer thing to say but I personally am going to keep cutting that corner as long as the demo allows as I know myself that I will NEVER be quick enough to win the academy so if cutting that corner shaves a bit of time of my lap and makes me feel a little bit less frustrated about my skill level and gives me a slightly less poor time, then im doing it

 

[GTP_rpm]

In the last GT Academy many times where removed from the leader boards. It was an on going process that the official moderators of the competition undertook whilst the competition was in full flight.

i_am_egg's removal was slightly different for reasons of somehow managing to slip through the radar and he got as far as receiving an invite to attend the National Finals. His DQ only came about when a complaint was received regarding his run did the officials review his replay and took the appropriate action.

Those here who carry the notion that if the game allows it, then it must be legal, are playing a very dangerous game as the details above show. Don't fool yourself into thinking that hitting a wall to gain an advantage is any different than cutting a corner to gain an advantage, because it's not.

That said however, you, the world and I have no idea how the powers that be will view this sort of behavior. For all we know they could be working on a patch right now to deal with the problem (if they see it as a problem), like they did for turn two at Suzuka in GT5P, and remove those times they may deem dirty from the leader board. But then again they may not. Food for thought though.

On a final note;
I'm a tad surprised regarding the opinions of some well seasoned OLR drivers in this thread. I'm trying to convince myself that they are just trying to justify themselves due to the pressures of being able to compete on a level playing field. But surely, after competing under standard OLR rules that all mayor GT sites have adhered to for years one would've thought that integrity would come way before condoning an action that we've spent 10 years preventing. But I guess I'm just being naive again. 🤬

Is there anyway of contacting these official moderators and questioning the final corner?

I believe the crash physics with barriers changed for spec 3, so that if any hard, or light contact was made it instantly invalidated the lap.

I don't think it's right we should be allowed to cut the corner. But if it means I make the top 20 legally then I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid it...as if I stick to the "code" and I end up 21st I would be very, very annoyed if the top 20 racers did cut the corner.

At the moment I am attacking that final corner, based on how I exit the final hairpin. I'm not skillful enough to repeat the curb cutting process lap after lap...sometimes it happens, others it doesn't.

 

[AutoAki]

I'm very sad to see, (but not surprised) that this god damn simple issue still remains in GT!!!

Are they really so full of themselves in PD, that they cant take all complaints and feedback from fanbase, and solve it. It's been one of major complaints something like two years. Unbelievable.

Sim what I'm racing in these days, calculates percentage of car visiting over whitelanes on track. In that nanosecond, when over 50% is off-track, you receive 'off-track' notification and your hotlap-counter turns to red. When racing, if you gain some advantage about it, the spotter says you must 'slow down', till your gain is lost... with big hand.

Cant be nuclear-science to implement something similar to GT!


Oh boys... I'm more and more loosing my hopes to GT5 everytime when some new details pops out.

 

[Lernatix]

I agree.
It would be a robbery IMO if they did happen to disqualify such laps, especially considering they don't even give you any method to remove your leaderboard lap times, which you may be unable to beat or replicate come deadline.

That is kind of the point of the thread isn't it?
I tried it on a poor lap. (it's simple, just turn in early)
Easily carried 10kph more through the turn and
got on the power earlier. That's a long straight!
💡
👎👎

 

[Hun200kmh]

On a final note;
I'm a tad surprised regarding the opinions of some well seasoned OLR drivers in this thread. I'm trying to convince myself that they are just trying to justify themselves due to the pressures of being able to compete on a level playing field. But surely, after competing under standard OLR rules that all mayor GT sites have adhered to for years one would've thought that integrity would come way before condoning an action that we've spent 10 years preventing. But I guess I'm just being naive again. 🤬

I share your surprise, Sphinx 👍

That's not the right lap. I said "Check out K-Yamauchi's latest lap in the normal car (1:49.2xx)."

I noticed he improved his time so I downloaded his replay and I was seriously suprised to see him go off the track and cut turn 11 with all 4 wheels off the track. I haven't needed to do it yet, I'm 1st in Ireland with two clean laps.

before that, KY had a clean 1.49,4xx. And before this one, he had a dirty 1.49,7xx that I have stored in my PS3. I referred to it very early in this same thread ...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3682195&postcount=37

... but it went almost unnoticed.

Again, I share your surprise U4IK (and this is the second surprise-sharing in this post)

I'm very sad to see, (but not surprised) that this god damn simple issue still remains in GT!!!

Are they really so full of themselves in PD, that they cant take all complaints and feedback from fanbase, and solve it. It's been one of major complaints something like two years. Unbelievable.

Sim what I'm racing in these days, calculates percentage of car visiting over whitelanes on track. In that nanosecond, when over 50% is off-track, you receive 'off-track' notification and your hotlap-counter turns to red. When racing, if you gain some advantage about it, the spotter says you must 'slow down', till your gain is lost... with big hand.

Cant be nuclear-science to implement something similar to GT!


Oh boys... I'm more and more loosing my hopes to GT5 everytime when some new details pops out.

Although you say you were not surprised, I was. About what's happening in the world of sim-racing, and because I am not a regular PC player, I can only compare PS3 games. In this case, GT and SCC. And - another surprise - SCC wins in this department. After an uproar from the online community, the latest patch introduced a system very similar to what you describe. The only difference is that what instantly invalidates a lap (counter turning red) is not a set percentage of the car oustide the track, the rule is more simple: more than 2 wheels outside the track boundaries (rumble strips being considered as "track") and your lap timer turns to red (lap won't be registered).