Cutting the corner on deep forest raceway?

[Mr-McNUGGET]

I'm wanting to get an idea of what everyone thinks of cutting turn 3-4 at deep forest. Its the one with the cement all the way to the wall right before tight right hand before the tunnel.

I'm a cutter, what do you do?
Also, do you think its cheating if you do?

 

[byegad]

I do it too. Frankly I have so much trouble wth the circuit, it's bumpy and seems to have adverse camber in places, that anything that helps is OK in my book. I also have trouble running wide at the exit of 7 and hitting the damn cliff! Bottom left of the diagram.

I suspect we are cheating, but hey! I'm only cheating if the Race Steward says I am and so far I* haven't told me^ I'm out of order!

*With Race Steward hat on.
^With helmet on.

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

lol i remember that the concrete part used to be grass in gt3... not sure about gt4 though, didn't play too much of that

 

[phil_75]

Cutter here too!

The game doesn't penalise you for cutting so its ok in my eyes.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

There's litterally no one not cutting this corner online, except if you're in a super clean room but it's really super rare. Normaly cutting that corner is as wrong as cutting the chicane in Monza tho.

 

[amar212]

I'm a cutter, what do you do?
Also, do you think its cheating if you do?

All GT games prior to GT5 had that particular area of entrance to the tunnel (or exit in reverse) non-paved - it was a small hill covered with grass.

Without going into debate about "cheating/not cheating", the ordinary *rules* of racing says how track is everything inside the track bounds. In GT5 - as in real life - majority of the bounds are drawn with the white line parallel with the track. On that particular area white lines do not extend to the paved area, so basically that area is more "safety area" than boundaries of the actual track.

From practical point of view, in my community league races we for instance strictly forbid the cutting of that particular area.

Also, you can check the AI routines in B-Spec races where they clearly do not take that run-off portion as in-course path and they strictly follow the boundaries inside the white line.

I presume game does not penalise it because the area is too small and configuration would just produce many problems for the penalty system. But since B-Spec drivers rigourously avoid cutting, we can pretty much say how from the *legality* perspective game "says" it is not a part of the actual track.

 

[Deko Wolf-GTPT]

All GT games prior to GT5 had that particular area of entrance to the tunnel (or exit in reverse) non-paved - it was a small hill covered with grass.

Without going into debate about "cheating/not cheating", the ordinary *rules* of racing says how track is everything inside the track bounds. In GT5 - as in real life - majority of the bounds are drawn with the white line parallel with the track. On that particular area white lines do not extend to the paved area, so basically that area is more "safety area" than boundaries of the actual track.

From practical point of view, in my community league races we for instance strictly forbid the cutting of that particular area.

Also, you can check the AI routines in B-Spec races where they clearly do not take that run-off portion as in-course path and they strictly follow the boundaries inside the white line.

I presume game does not penalise it because the area is too small and configuration would just produce many problems for the penalty system. But since B-Spec drivers rigourously avoid cutting, we can pretty much say how from the *legality* perspective game "says" it is not a part of the actual track.

I agree with amar. 👍
Only one correction though, the cemented area was placed in GT4. That very same section is the correct racing line taken by the previous version of the track.


Corner at 1:13.

So, in the remade version in GT4, that section was covered, thus making the corner a bit more tight and short.

 

[stdash84]

I also cut that little corner, dont even give it any thought. All other races i've been in, everyone does it, so take it is as an unwritten ruling your allowed to cut it...

By the way, is it me, or does that short vid of GT4 although slightly out-dated by todays standards, that Deep Forest of GT4 look more realistic of a forest and have more feel of actual darkness through the trees and such?

 

[Deko Wolf-GTPT]

I also cut that little corner, dont even give it any thought. All other races i've been in, everyone does it, so take it is as an unwritten ruling your allowed to cut it...

By the way, is it me, or does that short vid of GT4 although slightly out-dated by todays standards, that Deep Forest of GT4 look more realistic of a forest and have more feel of actual darkness through the trees and such?

That's GT3, not GT4.
And yes, it does look better.

 

[Rockspeny]

I noiced this in an online room last week. I love this track, and having learned it from GT2 I always stay on the black bit entering that corner, it's more of a challenge (especially in a Olium Spirra on cold tyres) and it's what I learned before the bank was moved. However, everyone was cutting it and driving on the conrete and I nearly caused a pile-up on first lap when I took the "old" racing line. You don't get a penatly, so use the concrete. Online i'll do that from now on, when I'm racing or driving on my own, I'll take the older, more challenging line.

 

[Jawehawk]

Of course it's cheating. You're going off track intentionally to save some time. That's cheating, and that's a fact. It might be generally accepted, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is cheating.

 

[iamjajo]

I don't use that section for laps. Most rules say that you are off the track when more than 2 wheels are over the curbing.

If I'm hosting the lobby and I see someone using the concrete I just kick them before the next race starts. No discussion, no argument.

 

[SuBMWaru]

Yep. I cut. But then again I avoid the course in general.

 

[gt5fanatec]

Personally when an online room says clean I try not to cut that corner. It's a pretty good size shot cut. IMO it's cheating depending on the room.

 

[Ryk]

Old School here, keep inside the white lines.

So long as everyone is racing the same track and rules it is fine. shame GT5 doesn't flag up your "cheat lap" as it does in time trial mode with a red lap time.

Simple fix would be some track side objects to mark the edge of the track. maybe some Riverside/Mexico City style concrete filled half tyres.

In a virtual game such dangerous methods to make the drivers play fair would be fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoH7mi075U&feature=endscreen&NR=1

This lap of Mexico City (Virtual 14 years ago) shows how a driver will quite happily cut the grass in places... but where the tyres mark the inside of the corner he keeps well away... hit one and you remove a front wheel or launch yor car into an acrobatic crash - both race ending events.

(About 20 seconds in shows a place where a driver could cut a huge chuck on the corner if these sunken tyres were not in place)

Another good track example is MonteCarlo - people didn't cut corners twice there.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

I'm not 100% sure, but you could try that track in Arcade Time Trial mode to see if it would get a penalty... If the time goes red, it's a penalty for cutting the corner.

Have a good one

Sorry, looks like I had the same idea as above

 

[BobbyBRAKEaNek]

Yep. I cut. But then again I avoid the course in general.

Same here.
I use it whenever there is a vote for that track online. In don't use the short cut in Aspec.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

If everyone is doing it then go with it, but I'd say it's up to the room host (if online) to state if cutting is not allowed.

Technically the race track is within the white lines so it's blatant cutting. Therefore when racing A-Spec I'll not use it. If I get loose trying to carry too much speed through 3 or get in the dip, I'll use it as run off rather than braking, swinging car to the right and then back to the left and probably spinning.

 

[V8 Rumble]

I try not to but if I see others online do it then I'll do it to remain competitive. I wonder if the short cut penalty is effective if the penalty setting in the lobby is high.

 

[berty1979]

I put all four wheels on the concrete kerb but always tell the lads in my room that they can do the same

 

[vfrmaverick]

I try and avoid outright cutting it. I might drop two wheels and go through the apex with the center of the car

 

[Turtle]

As a matter of pride, I never put more than two wheels on at a time UNLESS my opponents are a good distance away from me.

~Turtle

​

 

[phil_75]

GT4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Eunm-_hyBw&feature=related

 

[TheCracker]

Without going into debate about "cheating/not cheating", the ordinary *rules* of racing says how track is everything inside the track bounds. In GT5 - as in real life - majority of the bounds are drawn with the white line parallel with the track. On that particular area white lines do not extend to the paved area, so basically that area is more "safety area" than boundaries of the actual track.

But then again, in real life if you don't get caught and penalized for cutting a corner - then all's good. If the game doesn't penalize you, then you're fine.

It differs from track to track, organiser to organiser and series to series - but usually, as long as you have two wheels on track - or over the tracks boundaries, you have a good chance of getting away with it.

If you think you are cheating, then you are only cheating yourself. Unless you are playing online and others object to you doing so.

 

[NjLowrider]

As you can see, the area in question used to be all grass, now in gt5 its concrete. And there is no possible way to get a penalty.

This is a fantasy track but just like a real track it goes thru refinements. This is one of them. I bet gt6 has it all paved and marked as part of the track.

Its not cheating if everyone is doing it.

 

[yzfmike]

See this also brings to mind Grand Valley Speedway. The quick left then right before the straight had no cement just grass in GT3 (and 4?). I figured that since its the cement is there that the track is extended. But the white line rule does not make sense. At the Nurburgring, its between turn 2 and turn 3 (Mercedes- Arena), everyone I know goes wide and so does F1 at that course. Even where the racing line itself goes past the white line and the curbing itself. Everyone should be getting drive thrus like crazy.

 

[sk8tepenguin]

I don't cut.

 

[granddriver]

I do not use the concrete runoffs. Usually I like to stay within the white lines. Some courses like Trail Mountain the white lines come way out past the bumpers in which case I go all the way to the bumpers.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I don't cut it. I didn't cut it last night in the 450 room that I ran.

In the leagues that I've been in and run, that was very clearly off course.

Now, in a public room, I won't boot you for using that particular area on that particular track. There are other areas on other tracks where I will boot you.

 

[byegad]

As a general aside. Who else finds the circuit really difficult? I can throw most cars around most tracks, and am even getting the Nordschleife mostly right if damn slow still.

But this one really has me puzzled.