CyberPunk 2077

I think they should've done the same thing as Witcher 3, although maybe on a tighter timeline. Release it initially on the PC, work out the bugs there and then focus on ironing out the console experience. Though at this point it seems like the base consoles require a lot of work. I wonder if they can eventually deliver decent performance for those.

I dont think so. Best case for the base hardware is smoother running and less crashing, image quality won't suddenly get better. There won't be a miracle fix for them if these base consoles have been an issue for best part of a year.
 
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I dont think so. Best case for the base hardware is smoother running and less crashing, image quality won't suddenly get better. There won't be a miracle fix for them if these base consoles have been an issue for best part of a year.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting image quality to improve. It could possible get worse as they seek a smoother frame rate.
 
I understand the disappoinment especially when the expectations were so high, also for PS4-XBO...As already written this is a real CPU/GPU hungry game but if you have the specs it looks really breathtaking.

Hopefully ok to share some screenshots here

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Console gamers get one (1) 🤬 port and they act like it's the Gamer Holocaust.

More like people don't like being told the game runs "surprisingly well" on base consoles by a studio that withholds console footage and review codes for those platforms leaving players to find that it's full of bugs, looks awful, and runs like crap once they've spent their money on it. It's really not an acceptable way to handle launching a game. They knew how many pre-orders they had on console and still decided to try and hide the poor state of the game before launch.
 
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More like people don't like being told the game runs "surprisingly well" on base consoles by a studio that withholds console footage and review codes for those platforms leaving players to find that it's full of bugs, looks awful, and runs like crap once they've spent their money on it. It's really not an acceptable way to handle launching a game. They knew how many pre-orders they had on console and still decided to try and hide the poor state of the game before launch.
They should have just delayed the PS4 and XB1 downloads until they could patch in some better optomisation, I'm sure the stores can identify what console you are connecting to them from easily enough. For those with PS5's, XBX's or powerful gaming PC's it seems to be getting a very positive reaction. I'm certainly enjoying it a lot. But I'd be gutted after all the hype if I had bought it for the PS4, which I would have done had I not just built a new PC.
 
They should have just delayed the PS4 and XB1 downloads until they could patch in some better optomisation, I'm sure the stores can identify what console you are connecting to them from easily enough.

They can identify which console you're on but due to the way the SKUs would be handled it wouldn't be possible to limit downloads to new-gen only. Part of me wishes they had held off a little longer and only launched on new-gen but with the limited availability of the hardware I imagine their sales would be hit hard.
 
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Console gamers get one (1) 🤬 port and they act like it's the Gamer Holocaust.
If I'm paying 80$ for a game they've been hyping up since 2012 and intending it to run on last gen consoles I'd want it to actually work.....
 
This game was on my "must-buy" list but after reading the comments from fellow gtplanet posters I'll probably give it a miss. The PC scores on Metacritic are quite good, but xbox and ps4 users are slating it.
 
If you're playing the game on PC, I highly recommend editing the memory config file.

(language warning)


For whatever reason, the developers decided that it would be smart to hard code in memory limits. And for whatever reason, the limits set for PC are the exact same for consoles. You can modify the CPU and GPU memory limits to how much you have on your system. This'll boost performance by a lot.

I'm running the game with a Ryzen 5 3600 with 32 GB of RAM and a GTX 1060 6 GB. I was getting in the low 30 fps with medium/high settings. After modifying the config, I stay around the mid 30 fps with maxes in the low 40 fps when indoors.

Alternatively, you can just install this mod that does this, the AMD exe hex edit, debug menu, and other things.

https://github.com/yamashi/PerformanceOverhaulCyberpunk

The AMD exe hex edit changes an if statement so that instead of limiting the number of processes by the number of physical cores, it changes it to the number of logical cores.

You can read more about it here:
https://cookieplmonster.github.io/2020/12/13/cyberpunk-2077-and-amd-cpus/
 
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About 38 hours into it and this is how my character looks so far.
I've been changing my build as I go. First I was going heavy into Intelligence and Cool with Reflexes being the third I was going to put points into.
Playing for 10-15 hours I've decided to switch to this priority: Intelligence -> Tech -> Reflexes.
Cool seems to focus a lot on Knives and Cold Blood, which isn't what I normally do.
I try to sneak around disabling AI's vision and take then out by grabbing and knocking them out.
Sometimes use my sniper rifle or silenced pistol from a distance. If they detect me, switch over to Tech Pistol or Tech Rifle.
So Reflexes help boost up Pistol and Rifle damage.
I also want to craft higher tier quickhacks and upgrade my gear, which is where Tech comes in.

If they ever update how melee works in the future and make it more fun, may go for a Body->Cool->Tech build for the next playthrough.

Overall, there's definitely A LOT of content here, but sometimes doing side missions feels a bit weird because the main story pushes you towards it.
I guess overall it's a better approach compared to Witcher where the main story was a bit too long.
This way there are still worthwhile side missions that feel part of the main story, but they are optional if you don't have the time.

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It's actually extremely, extremely easy to see what people are actually complaining about if you go through the thread or actually look things up.
I must be one of the lucky ones then. The only issue I've had was during the Maelstrom mission, where a door failed to open up. That door just happened to be the exit and I (well, my brother) had to restart from the last save point, which was a bummer. That wasn't a big deal though and it was easily rectified. Nothing has happened since.
 
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That's where it should've been from the start. They said there was no pressure to release during the investor call. I don't know why they released it like this other than money. They have proven to be a great developer and they just completely failed on the console release.
 
Well, at least I hope people who sent death threat over this game's delay are happy that they got to play a videogame few months earlier than when it should have released.

On a serious note, I thought straight up pulling off a game from store was reserved for the likes of Ride to Hell: Retribution. Is Cyberpunk that bad on consoles right now?
 
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I've been playing on PS 4 and PS 5, had no crashes yet, it's a bit clunky on the 4 from time to time,but visually it looks great on both,slightly better on the 5 obviously, seen a few glitches on both, guy floating in the air for a few seconds, guy walked thru a closed elevator door,nothing serious, and i did get laid tonight in the game, that was kinda cool, only cost 100 eddies. :lol:
 
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This wouldn't have been nearly as bad of a problem if this was released half a year or more down the line in a better (but still not perfect) state and most people had moved onto next-gen consoles.

But right now we're in a time where the prospect of buying a next-gen console is pretty much impossible, so 85% of the people buying Cyberpunk will still be on base PS4s and XBones with no hope of upgrading to a better system in the near future.

Keep in mind this game was originally meant for the PS4 and Xbox One too, so it's even more insulting to think the consoles this game was supposedly designed for are unplayable messes while the new consoles that this exclusive club of people have are far better. CDPR deserves everything coming to them financially.

But hey I'll throw money at them again immediately once The Witcher 4 comes out.
 
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I’ve probably had 20 crashes so far in my close to 40 hours and encountered a lot of bugs (but only a few truly gamebreaking), but I’m surprised Sony pulled the game. Maybe it’s because CDPR issued a statement on refunds and basically said go ahead and get a refund, which made even more people try to apply for one than could be the case, since Sony normally doesn’t do refunds on PS Store after you’ve played the game? I mean Fallout 76 didn’t get that treatment and that game seemed to have been in a much worse state. Anyway, hopefully the game comes back to the store and they do not decide to abandon the plans for expansions. There is enough good here to build upon.
 
Long post ahead:

Seeing the disaster of a launch for console, I decided to take a look around the company CD Projekt to see if there's any information available that can shed some light as to what happened internally to cause this. I thought this would be pretty easy since the EU has a lot of transparency laws. And it was. On their main page, there's a link to the "Transcript of the conference call with the Management Board - 14/12/2020". There's a MP3 version if you prefer to listen. This conference call was with investors I assume, but I don't know. There's a lot of interesting information that I don't think I've seen elsewhere. I'll leave some excerpts below:

After 3 delays, we as the Management Board were too focused on releasing the game. We underestimated the scale and complexity of the issues, we ignored the signals about the need for additional time to refine the game on the base last-gen consoles. It was the wrong approach and against our business philosophy. On top of that, during the campaign, we showed the game mostly on PCs.​

So the management board focused on releasing the game and ignored the developers about the issues that plagued the last-gen consoles. They admit that they mostly showed gameplay on the PC and not on the consoles. Clearly, to some degree, they were aware of the problems on last-gen consoles prior to release and attempted to cover it.

The next set of fixes will be released within the next seven days. Big updates are planned for January and February, together with smaller fixes.
This corroborates the Vice article I had posted as the 21st would be exactly 7 days after the conference call.

In terms of delivering the game at a certain point, it’s really not about the number of people; it’s not like throwing in – in the last month – 200 or so people would actually help. So, the answer is no; this is not related to the fact that we could have thrown 300 or 500 more people into the fray and things would have happened differently.
Someone asked if there would not have been any problems had there been more developers. Michał Nowakowski answered saying that the number of developers would not have been able to fix the issues in time. I'm not entirely sure what this entails. Could it mean that the issues they had were so great than no number of people could have been able to fix it? Or was there something else, logistically or management-wise, slowing down the process of fixing the game?

We have an internal QA department and we’re working with external companies as well. One thing that perhaps didn’t help us is COVID: internal testers are able to test the game working from home because we provide them with our own connected machines and so on, but external testers working for external companies were not able to test the game from homes – they have test centers and if they’re not there, they’re not able to work. So, we have seen a decrease in the number of testers, but I wouldn’t point to it as a major source of problems.
They admit that the number of QA testers was lower than if there were no COVID restrictions, however, they claim that that was not a major source of problems. If lack of QA testing was not the problem, then that would mean they were aware of problems as more QA testing would just reveal more problems. This is even more concerning. They claim more developers would not have helped. They claim more testing would not have helped.

...about multiplayer – first and foremost, we haven’t confirmed any dates yet, and as I’ve said before, it’s hard to judge now. We’re in an unanticipated situation and we’ll have to reassess. This is planned for January. We’re now focusing on managing the single-player release, working on patches, communication and – as I said at the very beginning of this call – our focus remains on gamers.​

Multiplayer was planned for January but they are now focusing on fixing the single-player.

First – your question was about the focus and the cause of ours ignoring, so to speak, the shortcomings of the current-gen version. It is more about us looking – as was previously stated – at the PC and next-gen performance rather than current-gen. We definitely did not spend enough time looking at that. I wouldn’t say that we felt any external or internal pressure to launch on the date – other than the normal pressure, which is typical for any release. So that was not the cause.​

Now, this statement is even more interesting, and highly concerning. They admit that they had ignored the problems the old-gen consoles were facing, but they had no external or internal pressure to launch on the final release date. If they have no "external or internal pressure", then why did they not delay it once more so that the console version would be in a playable state? I do not believe this statement is true. Considering the outrage displayed by people after the final delay, they definitely had extreme pressure to stick to the release date.

In terms of the certification process and the third parties – this is definitely on our side. I can only assume that they trusted that we’re going to fix things upon release, and that obviously did not come together exactly as we had planned.​

Here, they assume that Sony and Microsoft trusted that they were going to have the game fixed by the time it was released. I suppose a small degree of fault could be placed on Sony and Microsoft for not making sure the release version of the game was not completely broken. They should be incentivized to do so any way as any poor released game, especially as one that's hyped up as this one, would bring negative press to them.

Come January and February you’re going to see larger improvements – which we’ve stated already. We have also stated that if your expectation is that the game is going to be equal to, say, nextgens or PC in terms of performance, that definitely isn’t going to happen. Having said that, I’m not saying it’s going to be a bad game – but if you’re expectations regarding, say, visuals or other performance angle, are like this, then we’re openly stating that’s not going to be the case. It will be a good, playable, stable game, without glitches and crashes, though. That’s the intention.​

For last-gen consoles, they are only aiming a "good, playable, stable game, without glitches and crashes". Any expectation for the game to perform like PC is out of the question.

...with regard to not showing the console version – we’ve actually shown console footage, but never on the last-gen consoles. The reason is that we were updating the game on last-gen consoles until the very last minute, and we thought we’d make it in time. Unfortunately this resulted in giving it to reviewers just one day before the release, which was definitely too late and the media didn’t get the chance to review it properly. That was not intended; we were just fixing the game until the very last moment.​

The reason they claim that no last-gen console footage was shown was because they were still working on it until the very moment it was released. Therefore, no reviewers were able to play it. I think this clearly shows that this game was not ready to be released and needed to be delayed once more. However, for whatever reason, they were adamant to release.

Spokko and the GWENT team are working on their projects. The Cyberpunk teams were scheduled to continue working on patches – this will probably take some more time, but of course we are branching and working on future projects as well. We’re also scheduling holidays; people are tired and – regardless of the situation and regardless of patches, we will not simply continue working as before; our people need to rest a bit. We will have a strong team working on patches at least until February.​

After some well deserved holiday rest for the developers, they will be moving onto other projects and working on patches up until February. I guess we should expect a well polished last-gen version by then. Perhaps they did not want to delay again, because they already have an estimate that the game would only be ready in February? Therefore, the delay would be too long and would only cause more negativity towards the game? Also, clearly, the crunch that they forced on their developers clearly did not pay off. Crunch is never the solution.

Hello, I have a question on your cost side. You said that the pre-orders covered the development and marketing costs of the game. ...given the work which is required now to fix bugs, glitches and similar problems, how does this affect your costs with regard to marketing and development?

Unfortunately I cannot share the cost related to additional work, but the cost of patching the game is irrelevant compared to what we have already spent​

Interesting that they had basically completely recouped the cost of development and marketing (over 7 years!) just from pre-orders alone! The cost of fixing the game is small in comparison to how much they have already spent.

One has to understand: Microsoft and Sony have refund policies for every product that is released digitally on their storefronts. Despite several articles I’ve seen that things are being set up just for us, it’s actually not true – these policies are in place and have always been in place; they’re not offered specifically for us. Anyone who has purchased any title on the PlayStation network or the Microsoft storefront can ask for a refund, and if it’s made within certain boundaries, usually related to time, usage and so on, can ask for that refund. Our procedure here with Microsoft and Sony is not different than with any other title released on any of those storefronts. I want to state that clearly, as there seem to be certain misconceptions.​

This is a somewhat important clarification as I have seen this misconception too.

And could you have released –

– without the old-gen consoles? In pure theory, if we had decided that one day before the launch then yes; we might have released just the PC version

So could this have only been the new generation of consoles and PCs?

So the answer here is “no”: next-gens get a completely different version of the game ... there is no native next-gen release. The game runs on next-gens and takes advantage of how next-gens are performing, but it’s not like we had a next-gen version in our hands and decided to keep it on the shelf.

[some time ago] we decided upon a last-gen version and, as you can see, we have not released a proper next-gen version – we don’t have it ready yet.
That is an interesting issue with cross-platform games since the next-gen version of the game currently is a backwards compatible version. So they could sell the disc for the game, but they cannot control what console it will be played on so effectively, if you were to release on consoles, it would have to be released on both. But I still think the clear solution would have been to only release on PC first, or perhaps just not let the game be available for last-gen at all. But I guess they had promised early on that the game would be for last-gen and that was something that they did not want to back out of.

with regard to the console experience – we already fixed a lot of crashes with the last hotfix, and
this time again we will be mostly looking at crashes and game-breaking bugs. I sincerely hope that by
Christmas gamers will be able to enjoy the game on consoles; of course the major updates will come
in January and February, so, again, we humbly ask gamers to wait – and they’ll be able to have an even
better experience then.​

The crashing on consoles should be fixed by Christmas, which would be the update on the 21st.

Most of the other questions were asking about specific data about sales and costs which they did not answer or said to wait for their annual report that'll be released in Q1.

After reading the full transcript, I'm only more confused and concerned about the internal workings at CD Projekt Red. Clearly, they were aware to some degree about the issues surrounding the last-gen consoles. Despite all of this, the Management Board kept pushing for the release of the game. Were they after the profit? Or, did they feel the pressure from the public that another delay would be too much negative press? Considering this project has been going on for at least 7 years, they must have felt the need to cash in now, but they must have also been aware of the negativity surrounding the release of a broken game?
 
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SONY HAS JUST REMOVED IT FROM PSN.

Epe1OkgWwAAAg3R




UNREAL.

Pulling it from the store seems like a very rash decision thats gonna make a lot of people angry. This is some way from being the worst launch for a game and yet its the only one that's been pulled. Sony trying a power move for a few headlines and score some new fans. The game isn't remotely bad enough for that level of treatment.

What it might do, is that fanbase who are now getting refunds or haven't bought it yet, might just go, ok, bye Sony, hello Xbox.
 
Someone asked if there would not have been any problems had there been more developers. Michał Nowakowski answered saying that the number of developers would not have been able to fix the issues in time. I'm not entirely sure what this entails. Could it mean that the issues they had were so great than no number of people could have been able to fix it? Or was there something else, logistically or management-wise, slowing down the process of fixing the game?
Mythical man-month. Adding resources to a project that is late will make it more late. This is pretty common knowledge in modern software development companies (esp. from SV e.g. FAANG), but reality is that gaming companies mostly operate in very archaic ways which result in death-marches like this when things go off-track (yes, there's an official term for a project like this as it's a common anti-pattern). The statement also shows that at least some folks in upper management were 100% aware of this situation, which makes it even worse IMO.

They admit that the number of QA testers was lower than if there were no COVID restrictions, however, they claim that that was not a major source of problems. If lack of QA testing was not the problem, then that would mean they were aware of problems as more QA testing would just reveal more problems. This is even more concerning. They claim more developers would not have helped. They claim more testing would not have helped.
See above. Also, if they already knew the game was a dumpster fire on PS4/XB1 (and I'm pretty sure they did), no amount of extra QA would fix that, so I agree with that. They pretty much ignored earlier findings of QA anyway, so adding more won't help. IMO they've got a management problem, not a dev or QA problem.
After reading the full transcript, I'm only more confused and concerned about the internal workings at CD Projekt Red. Clearly, they were aware to some degree about the issues surrounding the last-gen consoles. Despite all of this, the Management Board kept pushing for the release of the game. Were they after the profit? Or, did they feel the pressure from the public that another delay would be too much negative press? Considering this project has been going on for at least 7 years, they must have felt the need to cash in now, but they must have also been aware of the negativity surrounding the release of a broken game?
I think they panicked and/or severely underestimated the backlash they would receive from this. Either way, management needs to go IMO.
 
Maybe it’s because CDPR issued a statement on refunds and basically said go ahead and get a refund, which made even more people try to apply for one than could be the case, since Sony normally doesn’t do refunds on PS Store after you’ve played the game?

Its likely exactly this. CDPR wanted customers to be able to get refunds and Sony initially refused. According to their memo this occurred after their discussion with SIE so it's not like Sony just surprised them by removing it due to the lack of quality. It's far more likely that the discussion went

"We want players to be able to refund"
"Why?"
"They say the game is broken"
"Well if it's so broken they need refunds it shouldn't be for sale. We can do refunds if we remove the game from sale"

Someone asked if there would not have been any problems had there been more developers. Michał Nowakowski answered saying that the number of developers would not have been able to fix the issues in time. I'm not entirely sure what this entails. Could it mean that the issues they had were so great than no number of people could have been able to fix it? Or was there something else, logistically or management-wise, slowing down the process of fixing the game?

At a certain point you pass a threshold where throwing more devs at a problem doesn't help to fix it. You often need someone with knowledge of a certain game mechanic or a certain process within the code to fix something and if they are taken up with fixing other issues the only thing that will help is time.

They admit that the number of QA testers was lower than if there were no COVID restrictions, however, they claim that that was not a major source of problems. If lack of QA testing was not the problem, then that would mean they were aware of problems as more QA testing would just reveal more problems. This is even more concerning. They claim more developers would not have helped. They claim more testing would not have helped.

This is true, QA likely reported thousands of bugs throughout development and they simply didn't have time to fix them before the eventual launch. Their claim that there were fewer testers due to Covid is a bit of an odd one though; I've worked on a project throughout Covid and global outsource QA were always available by the hundreds should they be needed. Not that that would have helped in this case, though.

Now, this statement is even more interesting, and highly concerning. They admit that they had ignored the problems the old-gen consoles were facing, but they had no external or internal pressure to launch on the final release date. If they have no "external or internal pressure", then why did they not delay it once more so that the console version would be in a playable state? I do not believe this statement is true. Considering the outrage displayed by people after the final delay, they definitely had extreme pressure to stick to the release date.

Note that they say "outside of the normal pressure". The normal pressure to get a game out by a certain time is often intense, especially in the run up to Christmas. I think this is just careful wording to not upset anyone in particular.
Here, they assume that Sony and Microsoft trusted that they were going to have the game fixed by the time it was released. I suppose a small degree of fault could be placed on Sony and Microsoft for not making sure the release version of the game was not completely broken. They should be incentivized to do so any way as any poor released game, especially as one that's hyped up as this one, would bring negative press to them.

Sony and Microsoft certification test for very specific sets of things, they are not there to test the quality of a title. Rami Ismail did a good thread on this:

After reading the full transcript, I'm only more confused and concerned about the internal workings at CD Projekt Red. Clearly, they were aware to some degree about the issues surrounding the last-gen consoles. Despite all of this, the Management Board kept pushing for the release of the game. Were they after the profit? Or, did they feel the pressure from the public that another delay would be too much negative press? Considering this project has been going on for at least 7 years, they must have felt the need to cash in now, but they must have also been aware of the negativity surrounding the release of a broken game?

I'd take things on the call with a pinch of salt as they're not likely to be fully forthcoming with details in an investor facing call that will eventually be made public. I imagine what happened was the age old issue of the devs telling everyone that the game wasn't ready but the executive management team wanting the game to launch in time for Christmas to sell as many copies as possible. At the end of the day the idea is to make profit and you really want to hit that Christmas window if possible as the sales spike is huge. In this particular case though it has backfired on them.

I imagine that upper management is almost 100% to blame here. I've seen this happen so many times in the industry and it's always the same story; QA tell the devs and middle management there are issues > they report that to the upper management and execs > they see the potential to miss a big sales push > game gets released too early. It's a common issue that needs to change and I hope that this situation will make them rethink a little.
 
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