"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[meekrab]

As an aussie I can tell you bathurst is downforce, power then mechanical grip. GT3 cars circulate about 3 seconds faster than v8 supercars despite a 100hp deficit.

Yeah the GT3s are lighter, have more tire, and a ton more downforce, I imagine they gain all their time and more over the top and then give a little back on the straights.

 

[GTWolverine]

We will see what happens...I need a change definitely.

Re gr4 Tsukuba, come on man. Might as well run gr1 Horse Thief Mile. Tsukuba will never be fun past n200 imo

I actually think fast cars on small tracks is a blast. The Gr.3 race at Tsukuba 2 Exhibition season's ago was extremely fun. I also miss when we used to have Gr.3 races at Northern Isle and BB Raceway.

 

[NevilleNobody]

V8 supercar tyres are HILARIOUS. Those engines make proper power and it's all fed through two tyres smaller tham a base 911.

 

[MidnightRun85]

Don't know why I bother trying to play nice. Finally back to B/S (OK it didn't take long) and first games idiots everywhere. Guy tries to take me at corkscrew, I give room for his stupid move and he tries to drive me off the road. I get 3 secs. At the end he says I'm dirty, OK I did get him back and I shouldn't but by this stage they should have some sort of clue. It's more fun at D/D where getting hit is part of the game and you don't expect any better.

I was in that lobby and saw the banter at the end of the race. That guy sounded like an idiot... I had a reasonable race in the Cayman, got up to 5th but dropped back to 6th in the end. Then had a go in the Trophy, got up to third after 2 laps before some TT w***er punted me off at the top of the hill, recovered to 10th and managed to claw my way back up to 5th, before overbraking the corkscrew and giving up 5th and 6th on the final lap, like an idiot! But it was good racing in the Trophy. Its quick and very drivable on this circuit.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I was in that lobby and saw the banter at the end of the race. That guy sounded like an idiot... I had a reasonable race in the Cayman, got up to 5th but dropped back to 6th in the end. Then had a go in the Trophy, got up to third after 2 laps before some TT w***er punted me off at the top of the hill, recovered to 10th and managed to claw my way back up to 5th, before overbraking the corkscrew and giving up 5th and 6th on the final lap, like an idiot! But it was good racing in the Trophy. Its quick and very drivable on this circuit.

Yeah saw your comment just as we were going in. Found the Trophy OK, but too dodgy on worn tyres, can't do the Cayman at all though. A few laps in and it's like driving on ice, not fast enough to even consider pitting.

 

[05XR8]

*Sees Corvette in Top 3* 👍
I'm actually shocked it's that high up. While the Gr.3 version was brilliant to drive here in the FIA race (also surprising at the time), I was sure the Gr.4 version would be out of its element since it's much more "boat-like" in its handling, at least to me. I was still going to try it just for funsies, but I might seriously use it now (after eventually qualifying with whatever the META is ).

I was a bit shocked Viper wasn't up there with it. Many talk about how good it is. Maybe those users will get it done.
C7 has perfect gearing and power for this circuit.

Good throttle control beats TCS in 9/10 cases. I’d rather decide for myself when my tires spin, than let the car do it for me. Especially in MR cars, sometimes you NEED wheel spin to save a slide, with TCS on you can’t power out and the car just goes around a lot easier. 👍

By using TCS too much/often, your kind of robbing yourself of learning throttle control, which is a vital skill in getting faster.

Yep. At the FIA DTG II, many were rushing auto and TCS. Seemed to be hindering where the car needs to be a bit loose, to rotate for corner exits.
Throttle control makes that work better.

Although they have doing a bit better with daily race combos lately imo, this is a step backwards.
What a terrible idea for a race combo.

I think Grid Start would help. With Rolling Start, there's almost no chance to move up.

 

[Pigems]

TCS - to save the tires allowing for a no stop. TCS avoids wheelspin on both acceleration and during the actual gear change.

See, all I’m seeing here is that TCS cuts out my throttle at times when I don’t want it to cut out.

But, if you’re wearing out rear tires in an FR car, TCS might be helpful. It’s the front tires that are most important, I rarely ever wear out rear tires in FR. MR cars wear out the rears though, but having TCS on in those will only make it worse.

 

[Little_Guppy]

You’re wrong.
I crushed almost all at Bathurst in Megane TCS3, also Autopolis Megane TCS3.
Tcs1 to me on wheel is a useless setting on almost all cars, partially because it doesn’t work well to hustle the car at hairpins. Only tcs2 or more does that.
For me tcs1 is bad.
TCS3 let’s ff turn much better, It prevents exit understeer so you can use the right gear on exit instead of bogging the higher gear to prevent wheelspin.
For most players on controller though it seems they dislike tcs very much...
FF sucks at exiting if you even look at throttle too early. Tcs 3 gives you as much traction as the game has without going over that.
So you use 3-5 percent more throttle on exit 3-4 percent earlier, and the game keeps the car settled and accelerating.
Yes. If you have no ability to modulate throttle and steering might as well turn it off and fry tires...

For the board and @Groundfish,

Yeah, I think you should take your contrarian TCS views and keep them to yourself. There is nothing to see here.

<JustForGroundFish> Shhh! Just tried TCS=3 in the Audi TT at Laguna Seca. I bested my QT by two tenths. (1:27.1 -> 1:26.9). Strung together multiple 1:27s. Game on! </JustForGroundFish>

Seriously, there is something to this. If the TT can both run fast and minimize tire wear then it will result in no-stop race wins.

 

[Matrix243123]

Something weird going on. I've never seen this level of sportsmanship. Starting over with my alt account, I've never had a punt or knock off after 10 races. Maybe a slight brush on the side. I think there's only solid breed of drivers playing now.

DR's skyrocketing. Put with B drivers instantly. Can tell the volume that remains.

 

[Little_Guppy]

Good throttle control beats TCS in 9/10 cases. I’d rather decide for myself when my tires spin, than let the car do it for me. Especially in MR cars, sometimes you NEED wheel spin to save a slide, with TCS on you can’t power out and the car just goes around a lot easier. 👍

By using TCS too much/often, your kind of robbing yourself of learning throttle control, which is a vital skill in getting faster.

Agreed on the robbing statement, and yet there are places to deploy TCS. It is certainly not obvious for an FF car but the TT in second gear is particularly tricky especially when the objective is to preserve tire wear at over being on the limit.

No doubt, I am going to turn off TCS in an attempt to beat my TCS time. Besting my QT was unexpected. It tells me two things 1) I can get yet a better QT time, and 2) TCS is right for the race.

 

[OJBrit]

Didn't quite go full Kie tonight. I had made decent progress in Race C. I was in the final laps where those who pitted are starting to pass me. I let one guy go past into turn 5. In turn 6 he clips the sausage and dips a tyre on the sand. He spins. And yes I cannot avoid him. 3 seconds to me. I was pissed off and just exited the race.
Instead of quitting I just head to race B. I immediately set a new PB in qualy. Around 3 to 4 tenths quicker. It didn't feel perfect either so maybe more to come. It seemed I focused my rage. It continued into the race. An RS01 spun on the exit of Druids. The the AMG ahead took a weird line into Surtees. I wasn't looking for a move but jumped through the door he opened for me. Next lap an R8 meets the barriers on the exit of Graham Hill. Another car the same on the exit of Hawthorn. Now up to 4th. Car feels great, set a purple lap 2. The cars ahead are fighting. I am now behind a Ferrari. He has 2 bars and starts jumping a little. He settles but then appears to mess up Sheene. He disappears and I am in 3rd. Just about to pass under the bridge before Clearways and pop the Ferarri reappears ahead. Damn just a really bad lag spike. I pressurise him but he handles it fine. Cross the line 4th and with a CRB. It was a really good race. And one I really needed to just keep me hooked on the game. I will give up on C. I'm not fast enough to stop those pitting thinking they can shove me aside afterwards. I'll stick to Kent and Race B.

 

[Pigems]

Agreed on the robbing statement, and yet there are places to deploy TCS. It is certainly not obvious for an FF car but the TT in second gear is particularly tricky especially when the objective is to preserve tire wear at over being on the limit.

No doubt, I am going to turn off TCS in an attempt to beat my TCS time. Besting my QT is unexpected. It tells me two things 1) I can get yet a better QT time, and 2) TCS is right for the race.

The trick to the TT is avoiding 2nd gear most times. Maybe drop down to turn in, but back to 3rd for the exit. It’s got a lot of low end grunt with the turbo. 👍

 

[Tidgney]

Streaming some daily races, and starting from the back !

 

[NSP525]

I've been running no TCS on the TT mostly, my fronts are almost half done by race end on average. Last corner is my kryptonite in the TT, not getting the drive out of it like some others in the TT, not sure if 3rd gear has the grunt to pull off that corner or how others are doing it so well.

As @Pigems said avoid 2nd as much as you can, corkscrew and t1 both get a very early upshift to 3rd from me.

 

[KiepeYai]

i remember when i wanted to stop using TC , it was somewhere between june and july 2020,we had spa rain for daily, (i started gtsport on april 2020) , i remember trying everything including using TC5 but i couldn't turn a lap,i was so frustrated i keep asking myself what's the point of TC if i keep on spinning as soon as i hit the throttle , i started to hate TC , i told myself I'm going to learn driving without TC the hardest way possible , took the most twitchy car there is (R8) , TC0 , and did about 70 laps using hards at wet spa, i cant explain the experience really . All i can say is I've never ever used TC since then .

So @Groundfish ,i suggest u should start with hating TC, hate the fact that you're losing couple tenths because of it, put that anger to good use

 

[Little_Guppy]

The trick to the TT is avoiding 2nd gear most times. Maybe drop down to turn in, but back to 3rd for the exit. It’s got a lot of low end grunt with the turbo. 👍

I've been running no TCS on the TT mostly, my fronts are almost half done by race end on average. Last corner is my kryptonite in the TT, not getting the drive out of it like some others in the TT, not sure if 3rd gear has the grunt to pull off that corner or how others are doing it so well.

As @Pigems said avoid 2nd as much as you can, corkscrew and t1 both get a very early upshift to 3rd from me.

TCS=3 prevents wheel spin (that is the fact part) and I am making an assumption it subsequently reduces tire wear. Is that assumption correct or not? It is harder to have the more advanced discussion on strategy if we cannot establish the basic facts.

For tire wear, my understanding is that the TCS micro adjustments on acceleration and gear changes minimize wheel spin. Nothing beats a noTCS perfectly modulated throttle but that is extremely difficult to achieve consistently.

To be clear, minimizing/avoiding 2nd was my initial strategy. Upon using TCS=3 I am rethinking that.

 

[Matrix243123]

I think the Ford GT is amazing but I'm probably only person who will tell you that I wouldn't touch the Gr3 Mustang at all.

It's a great car though has more than enough power even though PD cut it's balls off and it handles well. The problem is tirewear, probably up there with the worst especially on DS4. The fuel is manageable enough and less of an issue for me now days.

It's been fun at BH though I'm lapping around 22.3 - 22.4s in race pace. Mostly Beetles who can hang with me but even in slipstream I'm pulling away from them

Wow, nice times. I'm dedicated to the ford gt and can only muster a 24 so far but can see alot of improvement areas. I find very difficult to keep pace with endurance and high tread wear races. Would like to figure out.

 

[Rexracer702]

We will see what happens...I need a change definitely.

Re gr4 Tsukuba, come on man. Might as well run gr1 Horse Thief Mile. Tsukuba will never be fun past n200 imo

I (almost) never use TCS. You are almost always faster than me. This week I feel especially slow. You can easily get used to no TCS. I would play with the GR1 cars. The 050 is easy without TCS. One key is weight transfer. Even in the monster Nissan, if you are going straight, and get the throttle open in 2nd to transfer weight, you can hammer it and not spin. Also, having some speed for downforce in those cars does a lot for stick. Other than the Nissan 92c, which does light the rears in 2nd every so often, I don't really spin in the other GR1's much. And if I'm honest, I do get a bit violent with throttle application, yet still stay in control. Get good with the 92, and most GR3 cars are easy. See you out there!

Edit: How could I forget the Audi. That is the one that consistently spins 2nd gear. I don't drive it much, and haven't really figured it out. I was faster in the 050 last week at Spa, even in Q.

 

[Pigems]

TCS=3 prevents wheel spin (that is the fact part) and I am making an assumption it subsequently reduces tire wear. Is that assumption correct or not? It is harder to have the more advanced discussion on strategy if we cannot establish the basic facts.

For tire wear, my understanding is that the TCS micro adjustments on acceleration and gear changes minimize wheel spin. Nothing beats a noTCS perfectly modulated throttle but that is extremely difficult to achieve consistently.

To be clear, minimizing/avoiding 2nd was my initial strategy. Upon using TCS=3 I am rethinking that.

Ok, let me try this. Yes, having TCS on will reduce wheel spin in most cases, BUT, and this is a big BUTT, Wheel spin is not the(or at least shouldn’t be) biggest cause of tire wear in a lot of cases. Heavy Braking is, closely followed by cornering. Wheel spin tire wear should be lowest on the list. The best way to save tires is to brake slightly earlier, and slightly easier, to save your Front tires. Like I said earlier, if you’re wearing out the rears on an FR car, you’re being to heavy on the gas, and in this case TCS may help that tire wear, but you “should” be wearing out the front tires. Similar for MR, these will wear the rears out more naturally, so you have to be extra careful with the throttle in these, later downshifts and maintaining a small bit off throttle under braking keeps the tail in check and saves the rear tires. TCS will rarely help in an MR car.

 

[Groundfish]

So @Groundfish ,i suggest u should start with hating TC, hate the fact that you're losing couple tenths because of it, put that anger to good use

Lol thanks. . We will see if I’m losing tenths or not in a couple weeks...

TCS will rarely help in an MR car

This. When TCS limits a slide in MR weight shifts forward creating oversteer which then causes total power cut to dead stop.
The gr4 Ferrari is a car that’s pretty awesome but not with TCS.
I will either be switching to R8 or 911 RSR or maybe the Peugeot ZRCZ for Brands on my 0 TCS racing this week...
If it goes poorly vette at 0 TCS will be my fallback.
We will see what happens...Laguna will just be an sr race for me, this week...B is the focus....
I’ll go two weeks starting today from just below A plus on alt...

 

[Pigems]

You got this @Groundfish 👍

Just remember, squeeze the throttle, never stomp it. Just a little bit of throttle can go a long way. And don’t get upset if/when you end up in a spin, use it as a learning opportunity. Figure out what went wrong, and then use that info to help you avoid doing it again going forward.

 

[Rexracer702]

Lol thanks. . We will see if I’m losing tenths or not in a couple weeks...



This. When TCS limits a slide in MR weight shifts forward creating oversteer which then causes total power cut to dead stop.
The gr4 Ferrari is a car that’s pretty awesome but not with TCS.
I will either be switching to R8 or 911 RSR or maybe the Peugeot ZRCZ for Brands on my 0 TCS racing this week...
If it goes poorly vette at 0 TCS will be my fallback.
We will see what happens...Laguna will just be an sr race for me, this week...B is the focus....
I’ll go two weeks starting today from just below A plus on alt...

The RSR is an easy no-TCS car to drive. The only danger zone is if you hammer the throttle in a low gear while cornering, and hit a curb. Little lift will usually save it.
Also, I drive FR almost exclusively, and I always wear the fronts more, even in the 92C when lighting up the rears out of every hairpin. The only time I see it being an issue is when driving something like the Greddy Z, and doing power slides around the sweepers. Even then, if you're doing descent laps, the fronts are usually worse I think.

 

[O604]

Did 1 Race B today. Was fun. Thought I'd done well, moved up a few against a strong grid. But lost 400DR. Nothing new, just a bummer.

Of course it just means I need to Q higher. Thought my 1:23.885 was good enough.

So I went and scared some geese. It's what we do in Canada to express frustration.

 

[Groundfish]

The fronts are the key. When the tires squeal in corners you’re wearing them.
I can think of say Catalunya turn 3 and also Interlagos the uphill right hander after decide de Lago and turn 3....
Those sweeping turns...If tire wear is big in a race it’s often not worth it to make lap time pushing hard in those sweepers.
Often giving up a few tenths there is the better move in tire wear races...
Sometimes staying out can mean better track position...

 

[Jwptexas]

Wow, nice times. I'm dedicated to the ford gt and can only muster a 24 so far but can see alot of improvement areas. I find very difficult to keep pace with endurance and high tread wear races. Would like to figure out.

Thanks you, shoot me an add, I'll try and help out when I can. I've only played for a year next week so I'm still a bit wet behind the ears and learning but I stay in a Ford and always help fellow Ford guys! there's little subtle changes you can do to get faster.

Know when your car breaks loose the exact moment because it'll happen everytime. Know when to correct it before it ever happens you need to anticipate it and throw TCS out the window if you want pace... if you're saving tires do whatever helps

On the subject of TCS. If you can't "feel" what your car is doing TCS is probably for you.

 

[Pigems]

Know when your car breaks loose the exact moment because it'll happen everytime. Know when to correct it before it ever happens you need to anticipate it and throw TCS out the window if you want pace... if you're saving tires do whatever helps

On the subject of TCS. If you can't "feel" what your car is doing TCS is probably for you.

100%, catching a slide should rarely to never be a surprise. You have to put in enough laps to know what the car is going to be trying to do in every corner on the track. That way, you know when and where the car is going to want to slide, and can ready and waiting to catch it before it even starts to happen. I find myself attempting to catch slides that don’t even happen at times now, just because the car would normally slip a bit in that corner.

 

[Jwptexas]

100%, catching a slide should rarely to never be a surprise. You have to put in enough laps to know what the car is going to be trying to do in every corner on the track. That way, you know when and where the car is going to want to slide, and can ready and waiting to catch before it even starts to happen. I find myself attempting to catch slides that don’t even happen at times now, just because the car would normally slip a bit in that corner.

Exactly! The guys who got this technique down are really fast.

 

[stpatty]

I think it was when he did his Nations Cup Weekly stream, David Perel said that racing drivers don't have good reactions, they have good anticipation. If you know how a car behaves then you shouldn't have to react to feeling like it's losing control, because you know that's coming and can act accordingly.

 

[NSP525]

The fronts are the key. When the tires squeal in corners you’re wearing them.
I can think of say Catalunya turn 3 and also Interlagos the uphill right hander after decide de Lago and turn 3....
Those sweeping turns...If tire wear is big in a race it’s often not worth it to make lap time pushing hard in those sweepers.
Often giving up a few tenths there is the better move in tire wear races...
Sometimes staying out can mean better track position...

This^^^ a great audio indicator of how hard your pushing your tires while cornering, try to keep them quiet in the tire wear races and make them sing a bit more in the sprint races.

I think most who suffer from excessive tire wear are usually unknowingly over driving the car/tire. Excessive steering lock and a heavy throttle foot can melt tires in no time, I think us wheel users have the advantage here with how precise we can be on steering lock especially. That coupled with good throttle application seems to manage the tire wear for me in a predictable manner with the TT at least.

 

[Little_Guppy]

Ok, let me try this. Yes, having TCS on will reduce wheel spin in most cases, BUT, and this is a big BUTT, Wheel spin is not the(or at least shouldn’t be) biggest cause of tire wear in a lot of cases. Heavy Braking is, closely followed by cornering. Wheel spin tire wear should be lowest on the list. The best way to save tires is to brake slightly earlier, and slightly easier, to save your Front tires. Like I said earlier, if you’re wearing out the rears on an FR car, you’re being to heavy on the gas, and in this case TCS may help that tire wear, but you “should” be wearing out the front tires. Similar for MR, these will wear the rears out more naturally, so you have to be extra careful with the throttle in these, later downshifts and maintaining a small bit off throttle under braking keeps the tail in check and saves the rear tires. TCS will rarely help in an MR car.

Good to know and thanks for explaining... the "why's" help more than the "how's". This *was* my working list for preserving the tires for this week in the TT. Hard braking was fourth though it was in no particular order.

• BB+5 - minimize pressure on the fronts.
• Avoid 2nd gear and the associated wheel spin. For T1 I can use 3rd gear and *almost* keep pace with the fastest ghost. When I do drop into 2nd I short shift to 3rd as the wheel spin weirdly appears in the top part of the rev range.
• Set TCS=1, yes in an FF, as it avoids wheel spin.
• Avoid hard braking at T1 and the final turn. Modulating the brakes at the corkscrew after initial hard braking.
• Minimize gear changing and the incremental wear associated.

Two more that I will add:

• listen for excessive tire squeal and smooth it out.
• avoid hard cornering.

Edit: and get a wheel.