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- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]
- Thread starter LordDrift
- 79,453 comments
- 884,163 views
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- 2,043
- Bristol, UK
- OJBrit
When I was there last night my brake pedal slowed the car down for my entry into turn 1 with my attempt at a correct line. It didn't act as a stage 2 rocket booster into the wall. Point is you are accountable for your inputs to drive the car around the course, not the game.
- 623
- Canada
- AFC-R6N
- 87,623
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That's never a good start to a response. It usually precedes a radical reinterpretation of what was actually posted to fit into a preconceived position.
Aaaaaand there it is.
No. You're still speeding even if everyone else is speeding. You're also still cheating even if everyone else is cheating.
It's your call to do either, of course, but if you're caught by the relevant authorities, whining because you didn't have the strength of character to ignore the crowd and stay within the rules won't get you anywhere. Not that there's any authorities in GT Sport, but then even in the real world those who only do what's right because they're afraid of the consequences of being caught - rather than because it's right - are generally terrible people. A lot of them are religious, because an all-seeing deity is their authority.
- 630
- United States
Wow. That’s what people doing at B? That’s messed up.
As far as C goes, people still can’t drive Tokyo lol.
Also rip to this guy:
As far as C goes, people still can’t drive Tokyo lol.
Also rip to this guy:
- 122
- Scotland
- foolsgold74
Been offline fir a couple of days so haven't tried this weeks races yet. Disappointing to see wallriding return.
I wonder if the game has trouble with barriers that block off bits of the track that lead to other layouts at that venue? It was a barrier like that on BMB infield that was problematic in the FIA test season Gr1 race (blocking off the oval layout). Maybe PDs code doesn't recognise that as off-track??
I'd like to see damage increased a bit. It's the main thing that takes me out of the immersion in GT games. There should be some jeopardy involved in hitting walls or sending one into another car.
I keep thinking I should try to get into ACC to see if the supposed realism there provides that feeling of risk. But I'm wary of the time investment and whether I'm quick enough!
I wonder if the game has trouble with barriers that block off bits of the track that lead to other layouts at that venue? It was a barrier like that on BMB infield that was problematic in the FIA test season Gr1 race (blocking off the oval layout). Maybe PDs code doesn't recognise that as off-track??
I'd like to see damage increased a bit. It's the main thing that takes me out of the immersion in GT games. There should be some jeopardy involved in hitting walls or sending one into another car.
I keep thinking I should try to get into ACC to see if the supposed realism there provides that feeling of risk. But I'm wary of the time investment and whether I'm quick enough!
- 5,610
- Druids Bend
- Z4E_Midnight85
I thought it was something to do with the angle at which you hit the wall?
- 693
- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
Senna’s explanation was as follows: “I said to myself: ‘OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and you get 🤬 by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it’. And it just happened.”
Exactly. He went for it.
Games aren't real life, there's an obvious difference. The only reason to do such a thing is because there's no real penalty for it, and it's not like it's putting anyone's life in danger...
If I was made aware that I would get banned for doing it, I wouldn't have done it. But seeing as others haven't, and neither have I, in the past, gotten banned for it, it just further encourages such behaviour.
I see what you're trying to say, generalizing me, shoving me into a group of certain individuals because it makes your counter-arguments more acceptable and agreeable by others...I didn't expect such behaviour from an admin, of all people. Of course, you may not be thinking that yourself, but the other users reading it might, and it rather conveniently shines a bad light onto me... Much appreciated.
- 1,230
- Michigan
- KosmoKazi
Good point... might be a programming issue where the track limits (as they relate to barrier penalties) are somewhat universal to the map... as you said, the problematic barriers have been the ones that are on the actual track where the crossovers are... I bet you're right.
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
As someone running a red light because it fits him.
I still don't care that you cheated, it makes no difference to me.. but I won't do it because I race GTS to feel a part of racing. And doing stuff like that just breaks the immersion for me.
The one thing I object to is that quote to justify your cheating/using s loop hole/taking advantage of a programming fail. Something you actually agreed not to do when you installed and when you signed up with Sony.
PD won't ban you. Sony is a different matter though.
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- 8
- Italy
Embarassing behaviour from people, feeling like to cheat and bragging about it.
The more embarassing thing is that you can ridewall T1 but then if you put two wheels out on the gravel you get 2 sec penalty, really embarassing from players and PD.
The more embarassing thing is that you can ridewall T1 but then if you put two wheels out on the gravel you get 2 sec penalty, really embarassing from players and PD.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
I still say this argument is strong. Doesn’t the game set the rules about what’s allowed?
If it doesn’t then who or what does set the rules?
Each gamers own set of standards of what they will or won’t do is technically a personal choice, not a rule.
It’s stupid and immersion destroying, as well as requiring no skill.
True dat, but the game should be better than this.
The thing that gets me is this. How the heck do people figure out this bs works?
I mean it goes to show the ridiculous lengths gamers will go to to find advantage and collect points. Imo qualifying in GTS should have some limited time frame associated with it not be infinite retries.
Gamers will do it.
Racers would never do it.
Strange to say something is and is not cheating at the same time.
Gts is kind of a synergy between simulation and game.
In gaming terms I think you’ve got a point. If it’s allowed within the rules you can’t say it’s wrong.
On the other hand it’s crashing your car full speed into a wall for crying out loud.
You gotta give Senna credit for sticking up for what he believed in.
His spirit was very very strong and lives on today in folks hearts and minds.
The FIA shafted him on his grid starting position there too.
It’s funny how a lot of people in sim racing try to be Ghandi when what we see from real racing is opposite.
Lol I’m a fan of both Prost and Senna is that wrong?
Edit overall I think this week just isn’t giving me interest to play. I think the combination of nonexistent driving standards and pen system is leading to me switching to other games.
I’ll be back though.
Also...I hope they get a functional penalty system before FIA.
I question the value of time investment when the standards are so low.
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- 5,610
- Druids Bend
- Z4E_Midnight85
If you're referring to the penalty on the last turn, that's just poor penalty settings by PD - as is the wall riding at turn 1. The difference is, the T1 is a penalty setting that people are taking advantage of (ie. cheating) and the final turn penalty is one which penalizes you unfairly because you don't gain an advantage from that line.
After seeing this and all the chaos on Race C I think I'll spend the week in the livery editor again...
- 8
- Italy
Not only that turn, if you go out in the penultimate turn you get a penalty as well.
It's honestly buffling how is possible to get a penalty for loosing time.
- 87,623
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Uh-oh... you might summon him.
I didn't refer to you as an individual in any way in my post. If you're feeling seen, that's up to you.
The answer to your question is that it is still cheating if everyone does it, just as it is still speeding if everyone does it.
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Pigems
Premium
- 9,220
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
I don’t watch racing, it’s quite boring. But, if like you say, Prost closed the door, then there wasn’t a gap for Senna to “go for”. How could there be if the door was closed?
- 3,842
- Canada
- TPCDangerSashimi
That Senna quote is such an overused meme now. Only gets used when someone is justifying bad driving.
Mostly by people who wouldn't know what a gap was if they saw one.
Anyone can see a gap anywhere depending on when you look. And anyone can create a gap by hitting other cars out of the way. It's subjective.
What Senna saw as a gap and what they see are on different levels. Kind of insulting to the memory of one the greatest.
Mostly by people who wouldn't know what a gap was if they saw one.
Anyone can see a gap anywhere depending on when you look. And anyone can create a gap by hitting other cars out of the way. It's subjective.
What Senna saw as a gap and what they see are on different levels. Kind of insulting to the memory of one the greatest.
- 5,610
- Druids Bend
- Z4E_Midnight85
- 5,092
- Nor Cal
- sturk0167
To be fair, this is usually what the final chicane looks like for the fastest Suzuka qualifiers.
The game allows it, so people do it.
It's not really any different that using a wall as an advantage.
I don't care, either way, but selective condemnation isn't fair.
The game allows it, so people do it.
It's not really any different that using a wall as an advantage.
I don't care, either way, but selective condemnation isn't fair.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Re that, it’s like anything if you have backstory on the drivers/teams it’s different. If you’ve got Netflix they have a cool show on the current F1. It’s a cool series.
Re Senna, didnt @racinggranpa already link to that quotes history?
Senna later admitted it was just a cover story.
He was pissed at FIA for changing where pole position started on the grid and also knew if he crashed Prost he’d clinch the championship AND he was revenging a prior move by Prost. When I watched a documentary on it it made me like Senna more. (Previous reader of Prost instructional book and huge fan of his measured approach to racing)
I just don’t understand the Ghandi attitude a lot of sim racers have.
How immersed are you to not get angry about people’s bad moves wrecking your race? To me that’s just not racing.
If you go 100 percent pacifist in online you’re not racing you’re driving.
Might as well just time trial...jmo
Good for Senna.
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- 651
- New London, CT
- roamingbard13
To be fair, this is usually what the final chicane looks like for the fastest Suzuka qualifiers.
The game allows it, so people do it.
It's not really any different that using a wall as an advantage.
I don't care, either way, but selective condemnation isn't fair.
Wall-riding would destroy your car if this were an actual simulation, while these corner cuts wouldn't. I guess that's the difference.
I, personally, would love if they kept the track limits at all of these chicanes super tight. I hate how much you have to cut them to be competitive, especially the ones that have sausages.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
To be fair, this is usually what the final chicane looks like for the fastest Suzuka qualifiers.
The game allows it, so people do it.
It's not really any different that using a wall as an advantage.
I don't care, either way, but selective condemnation isn't fair.
No it’s not fair.
Every Tom Duck and Harry comes out of the woodwork sometimes when in all other aspects in game people go as far as the rules let them.
It’s a contradiction.
- 1,860
- Tatooine - Outer Rim Territories
PD, just change back the previous Penalty System. Broken for a broken, it was better than the current one!
This one is a paradise for dirty rammers and for all that haven't a clue of what is a race!
This one is a paradise for dirty rammers and for all that haven't a clue of what is a race!
- 630
- United States
I disagree. While it’s not perfect, I would rather have this one. The last interaction would give you a penalty for just existing....seriously. I did a clean overtake and what do I get? A 1 second penalty.
- 693
- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
I don't feel seen, I just don't want people to assume the worst and make me look like the bad guy.
It is cheating, it does suck, but it's the competitive option, given the circumstances.
Also, about your "but officer, everyone was speeding" quote... If there's one person abiding by the speed limit amidst all of the people exceeding it, the one at fault is the one not adapting to the conditions on the road, because that one person is endangering both his and everybody else's lives by causing impedement in the flow of the road. You need to adapt to the road's conditions, within reason, or you will cause an accident. Hence why some highways have a minimum speed limit.
Prost closed the door which already had a leg in it. If you want to avoid damage, you won't close that door. They were side-by-side on corner entry...they were both well aware of what was about to happen.
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- Malawi
- crusselz
I wasn't going to comment. But your logic seems quite interesting.
The one person who hasn't broken the law, is breaking the law, by not breaking the law. Interesting. So the professional athlete who doesn't use performance enhancing drugs, is actually the one at fault, for not working the system?
It is a game, and we each enjoy it differently. I think that sums up the different opinions on the matter.
Personally I think that goes against racing and what racing is (even if it is a game). And as such, in my opinion, it is cheating and shouldn't be done.
But, again, it is a game and if that is how you intend to game it. Enjoy.
@bone_tone good to see you out there. I haven't got the greatest race pace on Race C. Plus running from the back to learn the track. So my DR won't be where it is for much longer.
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- 1,828
- Toronto, Canada
- TPC_Gooners
Lmao I'm sorry I don't even know how this is being justified as something other than cheating.
Track limits are a different story. If one watches real racing, y'all know each track has custom track limits. It literally was a debate in the F1 Bahrain Grand Prix 3 weeks ago when people were running wayyy off the track at turn 4 (I mean waaaaay off the track) but it was deemed legal by the stewards (until lap 35 or so when teams started complaining). It was way worse than this Suzuka chicane. But was legal during practice, Quali, and most of race. But this debate happens in almost every race series IRL.
So yeah track limits pushed to the limit where allowed is not equal to wall bashing/riding. Wall riding is cheating. They are two very, very different things as shown in the e.g. above.
There was a wall bashing cheat in the FIA Sardegna Windmills dirt race a month ago. To people's credit, not a single person in North America top split FIA that I saw was using the wall to cheat in race (where competition is harder and stakes are higher than a random daily race). I could have won that race easy if I used it (I qualified on pole). I finished 4th, and the top 3 didn't cheat. Nor did the 2-3 people who finished just behind me.
So please stop justifying cheating by saying ooh look at the track limits. It's a false equivalence. If one wants to cheat to win a daily race, fine do it, but please don't justify it as it being ok. That's just sad.
Track limits are a different story. If one watches real racing, y'all know each track has custom track limits. It literally was a debate in the F1 Bahrain Grand Prix 3 weeks ago when people were running wayyy off the track at turn 4 (I mean waaaaay off the track) but it was deemed legal by the stewards (until lap 35 or so when teams started complaining). It was way worse than this Suzuka chicane. But was legal during practice, Quali, and most of race. But this debate happens in almost every race series IRL.
So yeah track limits pushed to the limit where allowed is not equal to wall bashing/riding. Wall riding is cheating. They are two very, very different things as shown in the e.g. above.
There was a wall bashing cheat in the FIA Sardegna Windmills dirt race a month ago. To people's credit, not a single person in North America top split FIA that I saw was using the wall to cheat in race (where competition is harder and stakes are higher than a random daily race). I could have won that race easy if I used it (I qualified on pole). I finished 4th, and the top 3 didn't cheat. Nor did the 2-3 people who finished just behind me.
So please stop justifying cheating by saying ooh look at the track limits. It's a false equivalence. If one wants to cheat to win a daily race, fine do it, but please don't justify it as it being ok. That's just sad.
Pigems
Premium
- 9,220
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
To be fair, this is usually what the final chicane looks like for the fastest Suzuka qualifiers.
The game allows it, so people do it.
It's not really any different that using a wall as an advantage.
I don't care, either way, but selective condemnation isn't fair.
I hate the corner cuts too, track limits should be strict everywhere. But at least with corner cuts, you’re still in full control of your car at all times, and not bouncing off walls to slow down and make a turn that you otherwise would not have made. If he missed that corner cuts a little bit he’d still make the corner at a least. 👍
I tried to watch that F1 show, I fell asleep less than 2 shows in. I don’t care for the back stories in sports/racing at all. The sport/racing is the action, I could care less what these people do when they’re not on the track/field/ice. I hate how TV tries to make stories and drama outside of the games being played now. Just shut up and put the game/race on already!(not you, the people on TV lol).
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