"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[Sven Jurgens]

Just curious. Where would you rate the current penalty/matching system? Better/worse than the average?

I feel it's pretty deep on the bad side right now. Especially the matching. Matching was on the right track before the last change IMO. That's gone now. With penalties, I see more penalties issued but it hasn't helped me at all, if anything it makes races more congested and makes it harder to get away from the penalized person. Same as before.

Last few penalty updates for me have been, wait a few weeks for it to mellow out, race for a week or 2 and they change it again. Repeat.

Useless

The penalties I got last week (few) were all wrong, either from a laggy car jumping around, being too close to other cars fighting, or from a car losing control ahead and failing to avoid despite braking 100% and steering away from it.

The current system only does something for front to back contact. What counts is a mystery.

Sometimes it triggers when the car in front goes off (not always),
Sometimes when the car in front loses a position to someone else (I've seen a punter get a penalty at the moment I pass the car that got shunted off, me being behind the two initially)
Sometimes it triggers when both stay on (I tapped a car braking in the wrong spot confused maybe, happens. I slowed down, didn't pass, we both stayed on and went on racing, but I still got a penalty, no other cars near. It wasn't a brake check as we had been racing each other all night just fatigue)

Any other contact is fine, push your nose in next to a rear bumper to force a way through, no problem. Side swipes, no problem. Hit walls, no problem, not seen a single wall penalty all week. Shortcut penalties have been further relaxed as well, passing on the grass was fine in most places, or rather sticking a nose in on the inside on the grass to use the other car for the high speed corners leaving them in the opposite wall.

Penalty amounts are useless as well. I've only seen 1 or 2 sec penalties handed out. Sure they have an effect on the N24 but on most tracks it's hardly a deterrent. Plus you always get easier races at lower SR. Nothing to lose. Penalties are still -10 SR btw.



Compared to no penalties at all (everyone in SR.S) this is actually worse. Straight up revenge punts (rooms policing themselves) is now discouraged as a straight up punt usually does get a penalty. And now you can lose SR again, you also get easier races at lower SR and a bigger spread in DR and speed in higher SR.

I reset myself to D/E last night, got 6 or 7 victories from the back, back to B/S. Race quality wasn't any different, but it was interesting that all the pit stoppers ended up in the low SR rooms. Make sense, since they're more likely to rear end the no stoppers while no stoppers are far less likely to make front to back contact, conserving fuel and tires. It matches the shift from a mix of no stop and pit stop in the A/S rooms earlier in the week to only having no stop left in the weekend. A pit stop takes 30 seconds, so all I needed to do was not fall further than 20 seconds behind the leader, drive lap 2 in first place. 10 seconds head start in lap 2 was plenty to keep ahead until going flat out for the last section.

So maybe the worst version yet

 

[KosmoKazi]

Got my 1:55 QT in Race A... at the moment holding 22nd (and 23rd on the alt!) top time in the Americas... my best qualifying result ever, I think. My optimum time would put me Top 10... but I just don't have the patience for more than 10 qualifying laps. We'll see, I think others will start to catch up and I'll be around 100 before it's over.

But man, is that race fun! You can actually make contact, but not be dirty, and if you're faster, you can defend properly, even if someone uses the chrome horn... it's amazing and a nice change of pace from the usual circumstances.

I would also say, it's a perfect case study for the newer relaxed contact penalties since winter... you have to stick your nose in there and mix it up, but as long as you don't punt someone off, there's no foul. It's been a blast racing this afternoon. Was racing with a super fun group of four or five, including a bunch of great Brazilians. This is when the game is as fun as anything there is.

Even had to unlock the team hauler and race one on the Main account...

I love a good econobox race. Grinding the Alt up to well over my main this week, it seems. Might have to jump on the main account and cash in some DR that I've loaned out over the tough FIA season.

Also up to 20 CRB thanks to the SSRX event last week! Got that tough trophy/badge finally.

I've got a 1:55.x in me, just didn't put in the time to qualify better, but I love DTG and I love these FWD road car races. You definitely need to drive the Four Brothers differently in these compared to even Gr4 FF cars. It's all about keeping the balance even and the power on, but inside of the wheel slip caused by the differential.

View attachment 1012987



I like the VW... so stable and forgiving compared to the others. Wide torque band. Hope to see McMurphy out there later this week. It's a fun track to race road cars on... can be elbows out but not dirty at the same time... rare in GT Sport!

 

[Little_Guppy]

so I have to drive like a rude bloody **** and run everyone off the road so i can increase my D points?
I don't bloody think so, I admit i want to do my best but I wont resort to the behavior of those buggers, sol i guess my racing days in SPORT MODE are done

By punting, pushing and ramming other people out of the way and take their DR by finishing ahead of them. That's why we need a working penalty system. Without it, DR is pretty meaningless.

No.

Do you really think everyone above D is just ramming?

So, I sense a little frustration with the penalty system. It is clearly not working well but there are many of us trying to play fairly and I count myself as one of them. And yes, I get mad when I got belted at the Ring last week. In the top rooms you get "found out" pretty fast. Once familiar, I have found most to be fair and treat me "in kind". Some don't and I use a more aggressive technique with them and only rarely have I resorted to purposeful rams.

<...snip...>
Race quality wasn't any different, but it was interesting that all the pit stoppers ended up in the low SR rooms. Make sense, since they're more likely to rear end the no stoppers while no stoppers are far less likely to make front to back contact, conserving fuel and tires. It matches the shift from a mix of no stop and pit stop in the A/S rooms earlier in the week to only having no stop left in the weekend. A pit stop takes 30 seconds, so all I needed to do was not fall further than 20 seconds behind the leader, drive lap 2 in first place. 10 seconds head start in lap 2 was plenty to keep ahead until going flat out for the last section.

So maybe the worst version yet

Interesting view. I can see that... the no stoppers are going to get into more trouble and will get SR hits.

I did three no-stoppers cause kept starting with mediums.... d'ooh!

The other reason for stopping is that no-stopping is extremely difficult. It requires a whole new skillset. The week was a tough challenge but was a great learning week. PD picked a tough-to-execute strategy on the toughest course. We trash PD's vanilla-same dailies but last week they tossed in some spice.

Personally, I am going to keep my N24 Race C lobby room settings for last week and use it to practice. My best finish time was 18:25 and I think I can find 5 to 10 more seconds.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The other reason for stopping is that no-stopping is extremely difficult. It requires a whole new skillset. The week was a tough challenge but was a great learning week. PD picked a tough-to-execute strategy on the toughest course. We trash PD's vanilla-same dailies but last week they tossed in some spice.

Personally, I am going to keep my N24 Race C lobby room settings for last week and use it to practice. My best finish time was 18:25 and I think I can find 5 to 10 more seconds.

Nice time! I don't remember my best time (useless anyway while starting last) but with no one around in lap two I could get down to 9:06 and change in the RC F, no stop. (RH tires, don't want that 1 minute penalty!)

Fuel saving races were the norm for race C before PD abandoned them for some reason. A bit of an evil streak imo to bring it back on the Nord with long pit stop times, maximizing the need for pit stoppers to overtake no stoppers on a track where overtaking cleanly takes a lot of skill from both parties.

It fits PD's MO, all or nothing

I'll be back for the next Nord, Panorama C race or interesting GR.1 race (not a fan of turnopolis)

 

[Oelph]

Interesting time on Race A. On lap 4 around 6:34 I thought I’d been spun but looking at the reply I think it was my fault, I’d overcooked and moved to the left for the next corner straight into my opponent.

Close battle with one opponent and then he seemed to brake and yield? I thought we’d had some fair racing so hoping he didn’t feel bad towards me.

And then on the final I thought we were going to cross the finish line sideways.



Edited to remove PSN names.

 

[05XR8]

Hey, cool stuff! Player knocks off me and two others at T1 Autopolis. I'm in 2nd place.
At the finish, said player has FL, the win by 14 seconds ahead of P2, apologises to us players he/she hit. If they were really sorry, he/she would have pulled over and let me catch up. Not to mention, I got smashed again at T1, a lap later. Dropped down the order and clawed back up to 5th. With a couple corners to go, P4 spun out 6 seconds ahead. Unfortunate. Moved me up one more spot though.
Anyway, enjoy y'alls' evening.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Do you really think everyone above D is just ramming?

I am.

 

[MidnightRun85]

I am.

 

[Raptor013]

That's the third time you've asked today, and the answer is still no.

You gain DR by beating other players. The more you beat and the better they are, the more you gain. It's literally that simple.

I've found it's more like, You gain DR by being in the top 50% at race end (the higher you finish the more points you earn), likewise you lose DR being in the bottom 50% (the lower you finish the more you lose).

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I've found it's more like, You gain DR by being in the top 50% at race end (the higher you finish the more points you earn), likewise you lose DR being in the bottom 50% (the lower you finish the more you lose).

That's pretty much the same. You loose DR to those that finish ahead of you and gain from those finishing behind you. So the higher up you finish the more you gain and less you loose.

 

[Redneckchef]

Man, had a really mixed bag at Autopolis tonight. Had a good first race, went wide at one point exiting the first hairpin and spun for ages, but still snuck home p5.

Next race the network played shenanigans. Finishing lap 2 the car ahead has been lagging a bit, they bounce back mid corner by a good half a second, bump me off and then are back where they were. Oh joy. A few laps later I get a lag spike punt at turn 1, they hit me at the start of the braking zone, only they had the close enough to do that.

Then about lap 10 a car spins out at the bottom of the hill and doesnt ghost. Now, they had spun a while, but were coming back across the track when I got there. I had to brake and swerve to miss them, launching me off the track. No dirty driving, but a filthy race anyway.

Next race was messy at the start, bit of lag mixed with people sliding and spinning on cold tires. The pack imploded and I was out free to try and hang on to p5 with a huge gap behind. Survived it, but after seeing some more lag I figured I might be the problem so called it. Still plenty of good racing, even had some side by side action for a while in one race.

 

[MidnightRun85]

I've found it's more like, You gain DR by being in the top 50% at race end (the higher you finish the more points you earn), likewise you lose DR being in the bottom 50% (the lower you finish the more you lose).

That's pretty much the same. You loose DR to those that finish ahead of you and gain from those finishing behind you. So the higher up you finish the more you gain and less you loose.

And don't quit races, or you lose big time! I, unfortunately, had to bail from a race last night, losing nearly 1k DR in the process. As I slotted into 2nd place on the opening lap and looked like I had the pace to take the guy in first, my son woke up and started screaming his head off - not something I can just ignore for 10 mins at midnight while the wife is asleep upstairs! Moral of the story: don't quit races.

 

[foolsgold74]

Up until recently I thought I had hit my glass ceiling. But since the recent penalty update my races have generally been cleaner. Look at my last few weeks.
View attachment 1013010
I have doubled the DR I was generally hovering around. I never thought I'd get this high a month ago but here I am.
You will gain DR by racing. Hit the FIA as they are generally cleaner and the qualifying is better. If you start towards the front you can get a cleaner race and gain more DR. If you play dirty you will encounter repercussions. That will only drop your DR. Concentrate on your own race and you'll raise that number.

This.

Very similar story for me. The 2 peaks in my DR coincide with racing more regularly and focusing on FIA races (without ignoring dailies).

The latest rise is higher than I thought I would get but that is down to knowledge and experience gained from this forum

And I'm definitely a cleaner racer now than I was. The challenge now is to get even faster.

 

[KosmoKazi]

Just curious. Where would you rate the current penalty/matching system? Better/worse than the average?

I feel it's pretty deep on the bad side right now. Especially the matching. Matching was on the right track before the last change IMO. That's gone now. With penalties, I see more penalties issued but it hasn't helped me at all, if anything it makes races more congested and makes it harder to get away from the penalized person. Same as before.

Last few penalty updates for me have been, wait a few weeks for it to mellow out, race for a week or 2 and they change it again. Repeat.

I love the current system. I think it's perfect. Like I said, some contact is ok, as long as it doesn't result in an advantage or hurting another driver's race. I think it works better than any of the prior 'configurations' in the system...

Take Race A this week for example... some bumper to bumper contact is inevitable in even good clean racing, but I've still gotten CRB and I've still enjoyed the racing with the other top three or four guys in each race.

In the system being used late last year, it would be impossible to race those cars there because any minor contact would result in an SR down and time penalty... but this system allows fair play.

 

[Barra333]

I love the current system

This system works well for slow cars where small rubs and bumps don't send you off track - you really have to punt the guy to send them off. However, for faster cars where the equivalent contact would pitch you off, the penalties are not sufficient.

 

[MidnightRun85]

I love the current system. I think it's perfect. Like I said, some contact is ok, as long as it doesn't result in an advantage or hurting another driver's race. I think it works better than any of the prior 'configurations' in the system...

Take Race A this week for example... some bumper to bumper contact is inevitable in even good clean racing, but I've still gotten CRB and I've still enjoyed the racing with the other top three or four guys in each race.

In the system being used late last year, it would be impossible to race those cars there because any minor contact would result in an SR down and time penalty... but this system allows fair play.

Not sure I 100% agree with you there. The system now enables you to be punted from behind into a car in front in the braking zone, you receiving a strong (1-2s) penalty with the perpetrator getting away without incurring any penalties. And people can safely side-swipe you off the track or into other cars again without being penalized as they've basically turned off side-contact penalties. I think it's definitely advantageous to those who prefer to bully their way around the circuit without respecting any others on the track, but it does penalize those who don't understand the intricacies of the system and blatantly ram or dive bomb, and also penalizes those who are caught out by the guys exploiting the weaknesses in the system.

I think it works about 75% of the time, but there's definitely some big improvements that can be made.

 

[Carrera1963]

And don't quit races, or you lose big time! I, unfortunately, had to bail from a race last night, losing nearly 1k DR in the process. As I slotted into 2nd place on the opening lap and looked like I had the pace to take the guy in first, my son woke up and started screaming his head off - not something I can just ignore for 10 mins at midnight while the wife is asleep upstairs! Moral of the story: don't quit races.

I had that last night! Eventually it times out & same result to DR/SR

Race A seems to vary between good clean racing, and a dumpster fire of bumper cars

 

[Emp9u]

Just uninstalled the game (digital copy).. Thanks for all for the replies along the way.

I think it's time for Dirt Rally 2.0 again!

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=11527379#dr
So after 50 days of hard trying, I have had enough.. Penalty system prefers only dirty drivers, not clean drivers as it should.

 

[Famine]

I've found it's more like, You gain DR by being in the top 50% at race end (the higher you finish the more points you earn), likewise you lose DR being in the bottom 50% (the lower you finish the more you lose).

Yes, that's the same thing - although less accurate:

You gain DR by beating other players. The more you beat and the better they are, the more you gain. It's literally that simple.

Finishing in the top half means you beat more players than you finished behind, hence "the more you beat"... However it also depends on their starting DR score compared to yours.

If you want specifics, for every player you beat you take |80+[(their DR-your DR)/500]| DR points from them.

Of course that also means that every player who beats you takes that from you too, so you lose |80+[(your DR-their DR)/500| to them.

If everyone has the same raw DR score, that basically means you lose 80 to each player ahead of you and take 80 from each player behind you - so if you finish one place above halfway, you gain 80. Two places and it's 160, three and it's 240, and so on. However you'll never be in a race where everyone has the same raw DR score except in your first five races, and everyone will have 0 points and you won't gain or lose any.

Due to the effect DR has on how much you gain or lose, you might lose DR even if you finish second - or gain it even if you finish second-last - but it's unlikely. If you were a 40,000+ DR A driver and you finished second in a lobby ahead of 18 1 DR D drivers with anything other than an 80,000+ point DR A+ driver in first, it would happen (you'd lose points to the guy in first, and gain nothing from the other drivers, resulting in a net loss).


So basically you gain DR by beating other players. The more you beat and the better they are, the more you gain. It's literally that simple.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=11527379#dr
So after 50 days of hard trying, I have had enough.. Penalty system prefers only dirty drivers, not clean drivers as it should.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to show with that link. It looks like your SR is fine, so I don't know what it has to do with penalties or dirty/clean drivers. Your DR looks like you've reached your natural level - about average, which somewhat tallies with your speed score that site calculates from qualifying times.

 

[fisheye]

I am.

Yep...

 

[crusselz]

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=11527379#dr
So after 50 days of hard trying, I have had enough.. Penalty system prefers only dirty drivers, not clean drivers as it should.

I get that the penalty system can be frustrating, and the door bashing can get rather stale. But ultimately there are several things you can do to improve your own race craft, and have yourself around cleaner drivers. Regarding DR, you find dirty drivers right across the DR range. So perhaps stop worrying about what other drivers and just work on the things you can control.

Few tips from me, not much higher ranked than you:

1) Learn how to drive better:
@Tidgney has a driving school and daily/weekly race guides on his channel. @Mistah_MCA does great track guides as well. Also spend time practicing for races and events (if you have the time)

2) Pick a car and stick to it. Switching cars for a daily race can be fun, but if you are like many of us, who can't hop in to any car and get a good result, pick one car/track combo and nail it. There are some combos that I could easily do some major DR farming. Simply cause I started off by learning how to drive a certain car, around a particular track.

3) Spend more time on quali. The reality here is you may "out qualify" yourself, by that I mean, hitting that great lap that you can't replicate and starting a race with drivers around you who have greater race pace. But the better you qualify, the better your chances of a good result and a clean race.

4) Some have already mentioned this, but consider focusing on the FIA races, only doing daily races that you are confident with.

Ultimately as a fan of the game. You have to adapt to what is put in your lobby. But if you choose to uninstall the game and move on to something else, all the best

 

[Carrera1963]

I think I’m sitting the rest of the week out, I really like the Race A combo but the divebombing at the hairpin is bloody annoying (or being pushed wide into the sand)… several races in a row I went from top 3 to bottom 3 after being punted off.

also I find it hard if someone blatantly punts me to not catch back up and get revenge!

 

[KosmoKazi]

This system works well for slow cars where small rubs and bumps don't send you off track - you really have to punt the guy to send them off. However, for faster cars where the equivalent contact would pitch you off, the penalties are not sufficient.

True, but for the faster cars... zero contact may be more appropriate

Not sure I 100% agree with you there. The system now enables you to be punted from behind into a car in front in the braking zone, you receiving a strong (1-2s) penalty with the perpetrator getting away without incurring any penalties. And people can safely side-swipe you off the track or into other cars again without being penalized as they've basically turned off side-contact penalties. I think it's definitely advantageous to those who prefer to bully their way around the circuit without respecting any others on the track, but it does penalize those who don't understand the intricacies of the system and blatantly ram or dive bomb, and also penalizes those who are caught out by the guys exploiting the weaknesses in the system.

I think it works about 75% of the time, but there's definitely some big improvements that can be made.

Perhaps "love it" is too strong... you're right. But compared to the other variations they've installed since the beginning of 2020 when I first started playing, it's been the best balance of the parameters for me. There are still lots of logic holes in how they apply the contact penalties, and I have to assume some of it is simply technical limitations, but overall, the penalty system, IMO isn't a deterrent to me playing the game anymore, while it used to be, in prior iterations.

 

[Groundfish]

Any system is fine when you are a top twenty or so time on the server.
You can outrun the dirty players, and the guys you race are clean.

 

[Barra333]

True, but for the faster cars... zero contact may be more appropriate

Yep. I generally don't moan about the penalty system too much since I lurk Daily A most of the time. My main beef from there is with penalties for making contact with a car that is already on the way to the scene of an accident.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I think I’m sitting the rest of the week out, I really like the Race A combo but the divebombing at the hairpin is bloody annoying (or being pushed wide into the sand)… several races in a row I went from top 3 to bottom 3 after being punted off.

also I find it hard if someone blatantly punts me to not catch back up and get revenge!

Although I find it hard too, I would suggest watch some replays of your games to see what really happened. It has calmed me down.....well a bit anyway. Still too many idiots out there, but it's not always an idiot that hits you.

 

[barak181]

As I slotted into 2nd place on the opening lap and looked like I had the pace to take the guy in first, my son woke up and started screaming his head off - not something I can just ignore for 10 mins at midnight while the wife is asleep upstairs! Moral of the story: don't quit races.

The real moral is don't let a screaming child wake up your sleeping wife in the middle of the night, even if it tanks your DR. Take a tip from this guy, kids. You'll live a longer and happier life that way.

This system works well for slow cars where small rubs and bumps don't send you off track - you really have to punt the guy to send them off. However, for faster cars where the equivalent contact would pitch you off, the penalties are not sufficient.

I still think this penalty system is better than the past few iterations but yeah, it's starting to get frustrating. Last week at Nurb, I got pushed off the track quite a bit by people running flat out rather than fuel saving and not a single contact penalty was given. At DTS, I saw a couple of dirty drivers go 2 wide into turns, wait until they're near the apex and swerve into the other guy pushing him into the sand or barrier and never get a penalty, as long as they waited to do it in the midst of the turn.

Always one of the biggest frustrations is that no matter what they do with the penalty system, the actual dirty drivers seem to find a way to get around it.

 

[MidnightRun85]

True, but for the faster cars... zero contact may be more appropriate

Perhaps "love it" is too strong... you're right. But compared to the other variations they've installed since the beginning of 2020 when I first started playing, it's been the best balance of the parameters for me. There are still lots of logic holes in how they apply the contact penalties, and I have to assume some of it is simply technical limitations, but overall, the penalty system, IMO isn't a deterrent to me playing the game anymore, while it used to be, in prior iterations.

I agree it's improved since late last year / early this year, but it's still got some gaping holes, as you say. It's manageable, for sure, but far from ideal. Then again, it's probably one of the better systems we've seen in a while.

The real moral is don't let a screaming child wake up your sleeping wife in the middle of the night, even if it tanks your DR. Take a tip from this guy, kids. You'll live a longer and happier life that way.

Haha, yeah that's a good point - happy wife, happy life! Also, lesson learnt - if he's stirring like he might wake up in the next half hour or so, don't even think about risking a race...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The real moral is don't let a screaming child wake up your sleeping wife in the middle of the night, even if it tanks your DR. Take a tip from this guy, kids. You'll live a longer and happier life that way.



I still think this penalty system is better than the past few iterations but yeah, it's starting to get frustrating. Last week at Nurb, I got pushed off the track quite a bit by people running flat out rather than fuel saving and not a single contact penalty was given. At DTS, I saw a couple of dirty drivers go 2 wide into turns, wait until they're near the apex and swerve into the other guy pushing him into the sand or barrier and never get a penalty, as long as they waited to do it in the midst of the turn.

Always one of the biggest frustrations is that no matter what they do with the penalty system, the actual dirty drivers seem to find a way to get around it.

Nah, it worked when the penalties were really strict, contact free ensured as is advertised in the sportmanship videos. There was no way not getting a penalty with contact, and even a clean punt still got the puntee a (small) penalty, but the perp got the most of it. SR deductions were far more reasonable and also adjusted based on severity. That was long before penalty zones as well, so no pile ups there. (But people trying to bleed off penalties while racing and braking for the finish line)

However, the rubbing is racing crowd was the most vocal, videos flooded the forums from high level players getting lots of penalties and since then it has only been going downhill. Shared fault for all contact is the only way, but perhaps with less penalties and with SR calculations over time instead this reactionary system.

Whether this one is better than the past few iterations, it doesn't matter. There are all crap since December 2019. The one before that was exploited but worked a lot better than anything since.

 

[KosmoKazi]

Nah, it worked when the penalties were really strict, contact free ensured as is advertised in the sportmanship videos. There was no way not getting a penalty with contact, and even a clean punt still got the puntee a (small) penalty, but the perp got the most of it. SR deductions were far more reasonable and also adjusted based on severity. That was long before penalty zones as well, so no pile ups there. (But people trying to bleed off penalties while racing and braking for the finish line)

However, the rubbing is racing crowd was the most vocal, videos flooded the forums from high level players getting lots of penalties and since then it has only been going downhill. Shared fault for all contact is the only way, but perhaps with less penalties and with SR calculations over time instead this reactionary system.

Whether this one is better than the past few iterations, it doesn't matter. There are all crap since December 2019. The one before that was exploited but worked a lot better than anything since.

I think there is plenty of room for contact separate from the 'rubbing is racing' notion. Especially in 4-lap Daily Sprints, to assume that most classes of cars can race, instead of parade, with zero contact, is not realistic. The setup where ANY contact was a time penalty + SR down prohibited even sticking your nose in, especially as people learned to 'brake check without brake checking' and the poor guy who was only trying to look for an opening got an unfair penalty.