Dear Mr. Yamauchi - A question regarding the future of GT Offline.

[IngRobNy]

Best question IMO... Where is the " human drama" kaz was talking about ?

I had forgotten that promise, there is very little human drama in GT6, in fact none whatsoever, thank you for reminding me of that, now i have another reason for not to be interested in how the GT7 will turn out.

 

[HKS racer]

This one require a bump and more votes. Come on people!

 

[Latin Avenger]

Why can't there be 5 levels of gameplay? They could be: casual, beginner/novice, amateur, professional, and expert. Anyone should be able to access all of these levels, but the times for top prizes will increase.

Like, GT5 was a "casual game" in that the licenses were not required. You could get on and do anything in the game without them.

GT2 (and maybe 6) was/is a Beginner/Novice to Amateur game due to license difficulty and overall races.

GT3 was a more "professional level" (on license tests, at least).

GT1 and 4 were quite expert level in their tests, and many of their races.

This could help online lobbies, as well. If you want people who can run fast, put a requirement that you have passed X level of license tests....

Surely it's not hard to program different levels of AI and timing requirements? (or is it?)

Well said.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Thanks! Every once in a while I say it right!

The only catch to this is that there should be a small difference (10-15%) from the easiest to the hardest in terms of payout. I don't want people to NOT earn credits (that would be bad-go to "easy", buy all the cars...... oops....), but I don't want the spread to be so big that the "aliens" would be wasting money while everyone else was grinding for days....

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thanks! Every once in a while I say it right!

The only catch to this is that there should be a small difference (10-15%) from the easiest to the hardest in terms of payout. I don't want people to NOT earn credits (that would be bad-go to "easy", buy all the cars...... oops....), but I don't want the spread to be so big that the "aliens" would be wasting money while everyone else was grinding for days....

The only way to really design an effective game economy that makes sense, is to separate the acquisition of cars for the game as a whole, from the career mode. So long as your funds are generated solely from racing the economy will always be unbalanced given the current price of cars. In order to earn enough money to fill a garage you need huge payouts, which is great for filling the garage, but not so great for making an economy and a racing career that makes any sense.
Separate the two, introduce a Sandbox mode where you get access to any car any time, keep the offline career mode separate, with a separate garage and bank account, then you can make it as long or short, as challenging or as easy as you like.

 

[Danisfast]

Not so sure about completely isolating the simulator mode from the online one. However, the offline experience does certainly need to be given more life, some kind of overhaul far better and more concisely expressed by the OP than I certain could have managed...!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not so sure about completely isolating the simulator mode from the online one. However, the offline experience does certainly need to be given more life, some kind of overhaul far better and more concisely expressed by the OP than I certain could have managed...!

I should have said "optionally" separate, sorry. I believe we need a real, hardcore, career mode, but also a traditional GT Career Mode for them as likes it. I'm all about options

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Expanding the arcade could be an interesting option for separation..... (shrug)

 

[S10QaN]

Thumbs up!

The last games the GT-series has become more and more messy, leaving stuff half done, being half arcade/half simulator and it seems the developers haven't spent enough time trying to make it realistic. The offline mode is boring, it's like they try to make the game suited for everyone, including beginners and experts. How can both these gruops play the same events and have the same difficulty? How can you please everyone this way?

What we need is more challenge, more realistism, more factors like weather, car damage and incidents, fuel/tire/aerodynamic part damage, choice of parts/tires/fuel/setups etc, realistic racing features like manual pit stop driving+penalties/speed limits/flags/obligated pit-stops etc.

It does not feel real, you are playing agains dumb, robotic AIs with better car, with too little challenge from AIs, rolling start, no pit-stop, no changing tires, filling fuel/oil, repearing car.

Factors like this makes races exciting. Today you only need to step on the gas and drive OK for a lap or two and then you can drift through the race because you know the AIs won't catch up anyways.


I love Gran Turismo, it's great. But the philosophy is kinda lost and the game's path has become very messy and inconsistent.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Expanding the arcade could be an interesting option for separation..... (shrug)

If they do get the Event Creator going you'd assume that'll be part of the Arcade Mode of the game, although I'd like the ability to wrap it into the Offline Career as well. It would essentially be a Career Creator at that point and who wouldn't welcome that?

 

[Tenacious D]

I should have said "optionally" separate, sorry. I believe we need a real, hardcore, career mode, but also a traditional GT Career Mode for them as likes it. I'm all about options

I was going to say that out of the 10 millionish buyers of Gran Turismo, I wouldn't doubt that a good many of them expect to see Arcade and GT Mode, since they have been there since the start. This is why I keep proposing my GT Pro mode, and a few people will occasionally post similar schemes for future Gran Turismos, in order to keep the simulation racer separate. Then the sandboxers and those who just want a fun quick race can have their old school GT experience, we get our serious Hardcore Mode, and everyone is happy.

 

[smitty33]

Dear Mr. Yamauchi,

Many of us here at GTPlanet have been fans of this wonderful franchise since the beginning and we love and appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. With the recent release of GT5 and GT6 some of us have been feeling that the offline portion of the game has catered mainly to a very casual player and lacks many of the elements of real world racing such as qualifying, standing starts, a full flag system, pit radios, trophy presentations, emulation of real world race series, scalable AI difficulty, damage and more. In short we feel that GT is lacking the overall atmosphere and feel of being involved in a real life racing series while racing offline.

Are there any plans for GT7 on the PS4 to begin to include more of these real world racing elements and if so can you give us any specifics on plans for the future regarding the offline career mode?

Thank you in advance.

I agree with almost all you suggest, however let me add to your suggestions.
Firstly I think that all would agree that the career mode in gt6 is both inadequate and illogical. At the moment we have a mere 179 races in career mode. IMO career mode is and always has been the cornerstone of the GT experience for most players . I believe we should have a minimum of 300 different races in career mode and that they should be presented in a logical way, eg 400 pp,450 pp 500 pp etc up to 750 pp. This could easily be achieved without increasing the total download space required by reducing the number of cars to 600 of mixed capabilities.
Secondly the WHOLE of this career mode should be available to ALL players at a reasonable level of difficulty (eg Gt6 level B NAT) for the casual player. Then 2 licence tests should be available at any time of the players choosing to increase the level of difficulty in the WHOLE career mode to (eg IA level) for the average player then (eg Super level.) for the top class player.
IMO this could give everyone who buys the game a career mode they are happy with.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

This would work perfectly with my "5 levels of play" concept. With casual, licenses are not needed, but to unlock expert, you have to prove you can run that well.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This would work perfectly with my "5 levels of play" concept. With casual, licenses are not needed, but to unlock expert, you have to prove you can run that well.

Problem is, people don't like things that are locked away, generally speaking. Another way to approach it would be to have a license test of some kind, but not a pass/fail license, more of a Pro A/B/C/D license, where no matter your time you get a license, but the minimum level of competitiveness in Expert Mode is very high, with the AI for example locked at a minimum level of 95.

That way everyone can get into Expert Mode, but if you aren't fast you have to run at the back of the grid until you pick up some pace and compete. Do you think that would work?

 

[Tenacious D]

Every racing league seems to have some sort of provision for exceptions. Like with the handicapped fellow, or maybe he was just speaking for them, but I defintely agree that some sort of option would be great so no one is left out of the whole game.

 

[Earth]

My vision for solving the casual/hardcore issue is to take two existing modes, arcade and simulation/career, and make each of them as fleshed out as the other, but in different ways. I just now noticed GT has always had two gameplay modes, but doesnt take advantage of it. Why not split the game in half and give casuals what they want and the hardcore what they want.

Arcade mode can be geared towards the casual, filled with fun quick race events and challenges like knocking over cones etc. No need to buy any car as they are all available instantly. Races are short and its very easy to just jump in and race. Quick tune also returns here.

Simulation mode is geared more towards the hardcore. The races are much longer with practice and qualifying sessions and extended championships, all cars must be purchased, damage cost credits to repair, full tuning options, etc etc.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Problem is, people don't like things that are locked away, generally speaking. Another way to approach it would be to have a license test of some kind, but not a pass/fail license, more of a Pro A/B/C/D license, where no matter your time you get a license, but the minimum level of competitiveness in Expert Mode is very high, with the AI for example locked at a minimum level of 95.

That way everyone can get into Expert Mode, but if you aren't fast you have to run at the back of the grid until you pick up some pace and compete. Do you think that would work?

In an sense, you just said what I suggested.

My vision for solving the casual/hardcore issue is to take two existing modes, arcade and simulation/career, and make each of them as fleshed out as the other, but in different ways. I just now noticed GT has always had two gameplay modes, but doesnt take advantage of it. Why not split the game in half and give casuals what they want and the hardcore what they want.

Arcade mode can be geared towards the casual, filled with fun quick race events and challenges like knocking over cones etc. No need to buy any car as they are all available instantly. Races are short and its very easy to just jump in and race. Quick tune also returns here.

Simulation mode is geared more towards the hardcore. The races are much longer with practice and qualifying sessions and extended championships, all cars must be purchased, damage cost credits to repair, full tuning options, etc etc.

That is an incredible idea.I was thinking of a section for casual, where no licenses were needed, and a section for different levels of skill and competitiveness that you would have to pass license tests for. Then the sliders can come into play, depending of how high up you are.

Like this:

If you bronze the S-class, you can set the difficulty slider from 0-80% (or so), but if you gold S-class license, you can set the difficulty to 125%

That would cover everything, I suppose. (And then there would be multiple sliders, but that's in another thread.. )

 

[Johnnypenso]

In an sense, you just said what I suggested.

With a small but critical IMO design difference. No one is locked out of the Expert Mode. Locking people out of major portions of a racing game is bad game design in my opinion. Even if they will be an epic fail when they get there, you still have to let them get in and see that they'll be an epic fail. So the reaction is, "Oh darn, I'm not quite fast enough for Pro Mode", instead of, "What the hell!! I paid for this game same as everyone else why can't I get into the Pro Mode"

 

[smitty33]

With a small but critical IMO design difference. No one is locked out of the Expert Mode. Locking people out of major portions of a racing game is bad game design in my opinion. Even if they will be an epic fail when they get there, you still have to let them get in and see that they'll be an epic fail. So the reaction is, "Oh darn, I'm not quite fast enough for Pro Mode", instead of, "What the hell!! I paid for this game same as everyone else why can't I get into the Pro Mode"

WELL SAID

 

[TRLWNC7396]

From my end, I haven't even unlocked the "S-class" license tests. I'm not missing much at this point, but, yes, I will be upset if I can't get to the enduros when they come out.

But... I DID just get a Formula GT, so that may change soon... (Can't use the Red Bulls.... )

And I will add that, with my skill level, this game is pretty good for me at this time. At least it isn't GT1 where I NEVER unlocked the final license!

 

[Tenacious D]

My vision for solving the casual/hardcore issue is to take two existing modes, arcade and simulation/career, and make each of them as fleshed out as the other, but in different ways. I just now noticed GT has always had two gameplay modes, but doesnt take advantage of it. Why not split the game in half and give casuals what they want and the hardcore what they want.

Arcade mode can be geared towards the casual, filled with fun quick race events and challenges like knocking over cones etc. No need to buy any car as they are all available instantly. Races are short and its very easy to just jump in and race. Quick tune also returns here.

I had pondered folding GT and Arcade Modes together in GT7, but I kept bumping up against two factors with it. One, people are used to two sandbox style modes in Gran Turismo, and I'm sure that some gamers wouldn't like the change. People tend to resist substantial, drastic change. Two, I couldn't figure out how it would work out gameplay wise, because an Arcade deal where a bunch of cars were freely available is necessary for casual fun and for people who just want to grab a car and race. And at the same time, have some sort of GT Mode where there are familiar elements like an economy and cars to win and some sort of progression, so gamers feel a sense of accomplishment and growth with the game. And that wouldn't really fit in with a hardcore Simulation/Pro Mode. I'm sure that millions of GT fans would wonder what happened if GT Mode evaporated, and they were stuck between an Arcade "here's everything" deal and this PC sim-like thing. I doubt that too many will be happy with it.

I did like your post, but the more I think on it, the more I think it would be too disruptive. That's why I keep lobbying for that third Pro Mode. This way, the traditional formula isn't messed around with, that hardcore sim thing is separate and no one has to touch it if they don't want to. But it's always there if they want to peek in the door and maybe give it a shot.

 

[smitty33]

My vision for solving the casual/hardcore issue is to take two existing modes, arcade and simulation/career, and make each of them as fleshed out as the other, but in different ways. I just now noticed GT has always had two gameplay modes, but doesnt take advantage of it. Why not split the game in half and give casuals what they want and the hardcore what they want.

Arcade mode can be geared towards the casual, filled with fun quick race events and challenges like knocking over cones etc. No need to buy any car as they are all available instantly. Races are short and its very easy to just jump in and race. Quick tune also returns here.

Simulation mode is geared more towards the hardcore. The races are much longer with practice and qualifying sessions and extended championships, all cars must be purchased, damage cost credits to repair, full tuning options, etc etc.

That's fine if you are either casual or hardcore drivers. However what do we, the vast majority of drivers, who are competent yet not expert drivers do? Do we have to simply continue winning the casual races? or forever finish last in the hardcore races?

 

[Earth]

That's fine if you are either casual or hardcore drivers. However what do we, the vast majority of drivers, who are competent yet not expert drivers do? Do we have to simply continue winning the casual races? or forever finish last in the hardcore races?

The real difference between the two modes would be the time you needed to invest in them, not difficulty.

However this is Johnnypenso's thread and I dont want to hijack it

 

[Tenacious D]

I think a discussion of factors doesn't really count as hyjacking. I'm sure there's no foul.

 

[HKS racer]

Best question IMO... Where is the " human drama" kaz was talking about ?

I think there's plenty of human drama in GT5 and GT6. And it comes from the epic rage you got when you have 1000 cars laying in your garage but you can't paint them nor use them how you prefer in a custom event editor.

 

[masterrugalm]

I should have said "optionally" separate, sorry. I believe we need a real, hardcore, career mode, but also a traditional GT Career Mode for them as likes it. I'm all about options

This is exactly what I was thinking, arcade mode, GT mode and career mode, that would be great!

 

[Johnnypenso]

The real difference between the two modes would be the time you needed to invest in them, not difficulty.

However this is Johnnypenso's thread and I dont want to hijack it

@Tenacious D is right (happens once in a while), it's an open forum. On the off chance that Mr. Yamauchi reads through this thread, the more discussion and points of view the better.

I think there's plenty of human drama in GT5 and GT6. And it comes from the epic rage you got when you have 1000 cars laying in your garage but you can't paint them nor use them how you prefer in a custom event editor.

 

[smitty33]

From my end, I haven't even unlocked the "S-class" license tests. I'm not missing much at this point, but, yes, I will be upset if I can't get to the enduros when they come out.

But... I DID just get a Formula GT, so that may change soon... (Can't use the Red Bulls.... )

And I will add that, with my skill level, this game is pretty good for me at this time. At least it isn't GT1 where I NEVER unlocked the final license!

You say that you havnt unlocked the super licence yet. My advice, don't bother. The reward for doing so does not equal the effort needed for doing so.
I average about 4 hours a day of driving, yet getting a bronze in the World Championship, then getting a bronze in each of the super licence tests took me the whole of March. Over a hundred hours of mind numbing grinding.
Then you get the reward for all that effort, Several nondescript 20+ minute races that are easy.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

It's a personal victory and status, not so much how much is available.

BUT....

I expect there to be a VAST increase in S-class events as time goes on.

 

[Izzyracer97]

You can adjust the AI difficulty in GT6 but they don't get any faster just more aggressive.