Deep Thoughts

[Danoff]

we, and every other living thing, is at the mercy of the planet... (and the Sun, among other things).

Negative. We have brains so we can overcome our environment.

 

[Touring Mars]

Not joking here, but Hurricane Katrina should serve as a rather blunt reminder that this isn't wholly true... we can 'control' or 'use' our environment to a much greater degree than other living things (although arguably most other species have adapted perfectly to their surroundings too), but there is nothing any of us can do in the face of a tsunami, an earthquake, a massive volcanic eruption or a flood basalt - other than to remember the Dunkirk Spirit and run like hell. However much we may pride ourselves on our acheivements, our knowledge, our wonderful creations and cities, we are still at the mercy of the planet...

(and why do I keep typing merci instead of mercy... OMG, French genes! )

 

[exigeracer]

I just gotta ask myself why is it so rare that a song has so much to say in a couple of minutes that can mean so much, but finding a person who can have the same effect through what they say is so rare. I mean, I've heard thousands of songs in my life, and I can name a good dozen that musically can mean so much to me, even if they've got no lyrical relevance to my living. They're just so powerful. But then I look at the hundreds of people I've met, and some of them haven't said anything wise in their entire lives. It's not being mean, it's just the truth. Who can you name who has made you think as hard as your favorite song? Have you replayed their words in your head as often as you have replayed that song that you love?

Where are these people?

 

[Danoff]

I just gotta ask myself why is it so rare that a song has so much to say in a couple of minutes that can mean so much, but finding a person who can have the same effect through what they say is so rare. I mean, I've heard thousands of songs in my life, and I can name a good dozen that musically can mean so much to me, even if they've got no lyrical relevance to my living. They're just so powerful. But then I look at the hundreds of people I've met, and some of them haven't said anything wise in their entire lives. It's not being mean, it's just the truth. Who can you name who has made you think as hard as your favorite song? Have you replayed their words in your head as often as you have replayed that song that you love?

Where are these people?

Maybe you're just not hanging out around the right people. I find most musicians to be of lower intelligence than my friends.

Not joking here, but Hurricane Katrina should serve as a rather blunt reminder that this isn't wholly true... we can 'control' or 'use' our environment to a much greater degree than other living things (although arguably most other species have adapted perfectly to their surroundings too), but there is nothing any of us can do in the face of a tsunami, an earthquake, a massive volcanic eruption or a flood basalt - other than to remember the Dunkirk Spirit and run like hell. However much we may pride ourselves on our acheivements, our knowledge, our wonderful creations and cities, we are still at the mercy of the planet...

To a certain extent I agree. People die because nature attacks all the time. But that's because they're in a very dynamic situation where they aren't expecting changes and suddenly they happen.

Would many people die if the surface temperature of the Earth were 5 degrees warmer? Sure. Would we all die? No way. Our brains allow us to adapt to changes in our environment and overcome them... which is why we, as a species, have become dominant. New Orleans is a great example of our unwillingness to let nature push us around, even beyond reason.

Nature made it clear that she wanted to NO to be a swamp/ocean. We said NO NO NO, just to show you, we'll build a city there, below sea level (and we even named it NO). And it worked!! For a long time. We neglected our little expensive experiement due to the NO city officials concentrating on "more important" things and it came back to bite us. But there's no reason that if we sink enough money and effort into NO it couldn't overcome a major hurricane. We're totally capable of that. We just have to decide to do it right.

 

[exigeracer]

Maybe you're just not hanging out around the right people. I find most musicians to be of lower intelligence than my friends.

Maybe you're just not listening to the right music (I bet you saw that one coming).

I know people who are intelligent, and I also know people who just got through High School with the most basic knowledge, but the things they speak are far wiser than these 'intelligents'.

 

[Danoff]

Maybe you're just not listening to the right music (I bet you saw that one coming).

I know people who are intelligent, and I also know people who just got through High School with the most basic knowledge, but the things they speak are far wiser than these 'intelligents'.

I think I'm going to need an example.

 

[exigeracer]

Of music or people?

 

[Touring Mars]

@ danoff - yes, indeed we can overcome natural obstacles if we so desire - however, even with all the money, time and energy in the world, the city of Banda Aceh would still be a bloody mess right now - Mother Nature is much like any other woman - if you're smart, you can learn to live with her in peace, but if you push her too far, she can and will go postal on you! (and frequently does so anyway without any interference from 'man' )

I just gotta ask myself why is it so rare that a song has so much to say in a couple of minutes that can mean so much, but finding a person who can have the same effect through what they say is so rare. I mean, I've heard thousands of songs in my life, and I can name a good dozen that musically can mean so much to me, even if they've got no lyrical relevance to my living. They're just so powerful. But then I look at the hundreds of people I've met, and some of them haven't said anything wise in their entire lives. It's not being mean, it's just the truth. Who can you name who has made you think as hard as your favorite song? Have you replayed their words in your head as often as you have replayed that song that you love?

Where are these people?

You're correlating music to things in your past, but 'finding new people' and making new experiences with them is something that you have no road-map, no frame of reference for, and so it's much harder... you can build an awesome record collection as quickly as you want, but to build up a base of trust-worthy and worthwhile friends is something that takes many years, and probably something that you'll still be doing until the day you die... I'd exchange my entire music collection for one night in the pub with some of my best friends... (and besides, I have my music backed up anyway )

 

[exigeracer]

TM - this is true, but when someone says something of importance to me, wouldn't it be capable of achieving the same effect as some lyrics that fit my life? How come I rarely hear people speak things with the same influence as a good song? If I start my day with a calmer song, it can play a roll in my behavior during the day. If I'm feeling down, sometimes some up-beat puts the pop back into my stride. This is, after all, what art is meant to do. But I can respect someone I have known my entire life, speak with them and still feel the same in the end.

edit - when I originally wrote the little questioning paragraph, I also included a little disclaimer the same as yours. But my backup CDs got stollen

 

[Danoff]

Of music or people?

Both

yes, indeed we can overcome natural obstacles if we so desire - however, even with all the money, time and energy in the world, the city of Banda Aceh would still be a bloody mess right now

I'll conceed that we're not capable of surviving ANY environment... yet.

 

[Famine]

To a certain extent I agree. People die because nature attacks all the time. But that's because they're in a very dynamic situation where they aren't expecting changes and suddenly they happen.

Would many people die if the surface temperature of the Earth were 5 degrees warmer? Sure. Would we all die? No way. Our brains allow us to adapt to changes in our environment and overcome them... which is why we, as a species, have become dominant. New Orleans is a great example of our unwillingness to let nature push us around, even beyond reason.

Nature made it clear that she wanted to NO to be a swamp/ocean. We said NO NO NO, just to show you, we'll build a city there, below sea level (and we even named it NO). And it worked!! For a long time. We neglected our little expensive experiement due to the NO city officials concentrating on "more important" things and it came back to bite us. But there's no reason that if we sink enough money and effort into NO it couldn't overcome a major hurricane. We're totally capable of that. We just have to decide to do it right.

Maybe New Orleans wasn't the best of examples - but there are certain "natural" events which no amount of human endeavour can overcome.

Megatsunamis and theatrical earthquakes aside, if Yellowstone blows, we're all in the deep - everything within a couple hundred miles would be killed almost instantly, with death rates over the 40% mark for much of the US, and the entire planet cast into a centuries-long Ice Age within a matter of days (Toba, comparable to the first recorded Yellowstone eruption, caused a 1,000-year Ice Age) - though it wouldn't really affect anyone in space at the time, except for the whole food thing... We're not really reliant on plants and animals to make food any more anyway, but I doubt we'd be able to make sufficient food for even the survivors.

Even of the Earth though, we're still majorly boned. 3 billion years time, Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way and, frankly, no-one has any clue what the outcome will be. The gravitational forces on the Solar System will be constantly shifting, so there's absolutely no telling whether we'll be okay, be torn apart, be thrown from the Solar System, the Solar System be thrown from galaxy, swallowed by a supermassive black hole, seared clean by gamma rays or... just fine, thanks. But 2 billion years later, the Sun will tear us apart, then swallow us. Unless we can leave, of course - if we set off now, we might just escape the galactic mail merge...


Depression aside, though we can certainly build to protect against hurricanes, tornadoes, lightning, tsunami, megatsunami, plagues of locusts and Pee Wee Herman (a much underestimated danger), if the Earth we build upon shrugs, there's not a lot we can really do. At a Richter 9.5, no buildings will survive - and the release of energy from a supervolcano makes a 9.5 Richter quake look like a sneeze. Though you're right to say that no Earth-originating event would be sufficient to wipe out the whole human race.

 

[exigeracer]

Both

Music:

The Go! Team - Everyone's a VIP to Someone (it's an instrumental)
-or-
Eels - Hey Man (Live at Town Hall)

Both can affect my mood.

People:

These people aren't famous, and most likely never will be, so I doubt you would know any of them. For example, I know someone who took a brake after high school to pursue (coincidentally) music, and now he's in his late 20s I beleive, and the stories he has to tell, and the way he tells them make me admire his usable knowledge far more than, say, my brother, who is got through school with ease and is currently studying neuroscience.

 

[Danoff]

Even of the Earth though, we're still majorly boned. 3 billion years time, Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way and, frankly, no-one has any clue what the outcome will be. The gravitational forces on the Solar System will be constantly shifting, so there's absolutely no telling whether we'll be okay, be torn apart, be thrown from the Solar System, the Solar System be thrown from galaxy, swallowed by a supermassive black hole, seared clean by gamma rays or... just fine, thanks. But 2 billion years later, the Sun will tear us apart, then swallow us. Unless we can leave, of course - if we set off now, we might just escape the galactic mail merge...

That's what our brains are for, to figure out a way to get out of town before the big bad black hole comes in. We're even helpless before galactic events, let alone little mother Earth.

 

[Danoff]

Music:

The Go! Team - Everyone's a VIP to Someone (it's an instrumental)
-or-
Eels - Hey Man (Live at Town Hall)

Both can affect my mood.

Anyone can affect your mood. I watched my boss get pissed this morning because his secretary said something to him he didn't like. Affecting your mood isn't exactly a challenging thing.

People:

These people aren't famous, and most likely never will be, so I doubt you would know any of them. For example, I know someone who took a brake after high school to pursue (coincidentally) music, and now he's in his late 20s I beleive, and the stories he has to tell, and the way he tells them make me admire his usable knowledge far more than, say, my brother, who is got through school with ease and is currently studying neuroscience.

I don't understand how you can value anecdotes over science.

 

[exigeracer]

Anyone can affect your mood. I watched my boss get pissed this morning because his secretary said something to him he didn't like. Affecting your mood isn't exactly a challenging thing.

It very rarely affect me the same way as music would.

And I don't know how science has anything to do with this. Please elaborate.

 

[Danoff]

It very rarely affect me the same way as music would.

How is it different?

And I don't know how science has anything to do with this. Please elaborate.

Because your brother studies neuroscience.

 

[OZZYGT]

I just gotta ask myself why is it so rare that a song has so much to say in a couple of minutes that can mean so much, but finding a person who can have the same effect through what they say is so rare. I mean, I've heard thousands of songs in my life, and I can name a good dozen that musically can mean so much to me, even if they've got no lyrical relevance to my living. They're just so powerful. But then I look at the hundreds of people I've met, and some of them haven't said anything wise in their entire lives. It's not being mean, it's just the truth. Who can you name who has made you think as hard as your favorite song? Have you replayed their words in your head as often as you have replayed that song that you love?

Where are these people?

Exigeracer, you're also forgetting that songs are more catchy because they have a rithym or beat that gets stuck in your head and when you keep singing the song you're also analyzing the lyrics as well. Even if you despise the song, sometimes you'll remember it somehow, and that will reminisce easier what the song is about rather than what a guy said 2 weeks ago.

Music is supposed to be a set of notes compounded in such way that is pleasant to your ears. That may also stimulate your mind and perhaps get you to pay more attention to it than to plain words coming out of a person.

And sometimes this is not the case, it also depends on who's talking to you...the importance of that person influences your attention.




Ciao!

 

[Keef]

There's something about certain songs that catch my attention and my mind certainly pays more attention to those songs than whatever else I'm doing. Staind's song Epiphany is a good example. It the kind of song that gives me chills, I guess, and just makes me feel weird, you know? Limp Bizkit has a song called Boiler that always made me do that. Everlong by the Foo Fighters does it too, but not as much. Who's Got my Back? from Creed does it. They all do it best when they're pretty loud. It's weird how they grab my attention and make me feel like that, just by their sound.
Most of you guys might not know those songs, but they're the kind of song that starts quiet and soft, then has the big "boom" in the middle when it gets louder. They're a little long, too. I think Creed's song is the best example of the quiet-to-loud thing. I love it.

 

[Klostrophobic]

If the universe is infinitely large, and I'm six feet tall, am I effectively nothing?

If I'm infinitely small, I'm nothing, right? Or is there a difference?

 

[Keef]

No. You are something. Therefore you have an effect. You could assume you don't matter, but that's simply not true.

No, if you're infinitely small you aren't nothing. You're just infinitely small. The context of the question implies something is there, it's just, well, every size unimaginable. It also implies that it could be infinitely large--like the "half empty, half full thing".

 

[OZZYGT]

*waiting on Sage's response*




Ciao!

 

[Sage]

If the universe is infinitely large, and I'm six feet tall, am I effectively nothing?

That reminds me of that awesome definition of the Universe from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:

POPULATION [of the Universe]: None.
It is known that there is an infinite number of worlds, but that not every one is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so if every planet in the Universe has a population of zero then the entire population of the Universe must also be zero, and any people you may actually meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.​

If I'm infinitely small, I'm nothing, right? Or is there a difference?

A singularity is infinitely small, yet it’s obviously something.

Head hurts. Stupid infinity. What’s infinity times zero? Hell if I know…


[edit]:

*waiting on Sage's response*

How’d you know? I didn’t even see your post until I’d submitted mine.

 

[OZZYGT]

Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds

As far as I know, the infinity of the Universe has not been proved just yet. Space, is another thing.
Therefore there cannot be a conclusion that effectively states our ocupation in the Universe.

[edit]:

How’d you know? I didn’t even see your post until I’d submitted mine.

I was going to post, until I saw that you were replying, so my best move was just to wait for you





Ciao!

 

[Touring Mars]

If the universe is infinitely large, and I'm six feet tall, am I effectively nothing?

If I'm infinitely small, I'm nothing, right? Or is there a difference?

The good thing about infinity is that it is infinite in both directions, both up and down. The universe may be 'infinitely large', but the realm of subatomic particles is similarly infinitely small... an average human body comprises some 7*10^27 atoms - our galaxy comprises some 100 billion stars (10^11 stars) and the known universe contains approx. 100 billion galaxies, in other words the known universe contains some 10^22 stars... so the average human body contains some 70,000 times more atoms than the universe contains stars.... still feel small?

 

[TVRKing]

The good thing about infinity is that it is infinite in both directions, both up and down. The universe may be 'infinitely large', but the realm of subatomic particles is similarly infinitely small... an average human body comprises some 7*10^27 atoms - our galaxy comprises some 100 billion stars (10^11 stars) and the known universe contains approx. 100 billion galaxies, in other words the known universe contains some 10^22 stars... so the average human body contains some 70,000 times more atoms than the universe contains stars.... still feel small?

Presumably then, an above average human would have some 105,000 times more atoms, and a large person 140,000?

 

[exigeracer]

Danoff - I definitely misexplained thing if that's the message you were getting. It's not little stories that I praise higher than scientific knowledge. I have a lot of respect for those fields, but the kind of people I am looking for are those that you can sit there with interest how they preach about respect and dealing with things. I guess it's the kind of knowledge that would raise excellent children, and it makes you think about it and how you can apply those kinds of things to your life to make things better and easier. The kind of things that make you think about "and the moral of the story is..." but without the story and without the punctual moral. Those people are the ones that I'm looking for, they're the ones who put a fresh breath of air into my day. It's definitely not the same effect if I was questioned for 45 minutes about why this molecule is trigonal bipyramidal... Get bent.

 

[Danoff]

After reading "The Sparrow", I was interested in the concept of bifurcation in the dominant species on the planet.

This morning, as I was walking to my office from the car, I realized that bifurcation is actually quite likely and almost happened in humans. Native Americans were separated geologically from the rest of the world for quite a while. As such, they developed an entirely different culture and pace for technological development. They were so separated that when the Europeans came over they brought a plague with them.

An interesting thought experiement occurs when you consider what might have happened if it had taken a few more thousand years for Europe to become technologically advanced enough to sail to America.

That's easily conceivable. Suppose that a major plauge, or event happened in Europe (like bubonic), and killed off enough of them that it prevented them from developing as quickly. Suppose they had developed as the native Americans did. Instead of learning to develop technology, they became spiritual and content.

Consider the impact of spirituality for thousands of years as the Native Americans and the Native Europeans follow animal herds and dance for rain. Thousands more years could pass with these two intelligent groups staying genetically distinct from each other. The result could be a bifurcation in the human species - a sufficient genetic diversity that we'd be unable to interbreed (thereby exacerbating the genetic differences).

Can you imagine? Two sentient species sharing the planet?

 

[GT4_Rule]

I'm studying about this - how isolation works to specialize the specie in where it is residing. It's kind of similar to what Darwin observed in Galapagos islands.

I read in my biology text that North Americans seem to be missing an alelle for B type blood, whereas Alaskans and Asians have 25% chance of inheriting them. But scientists say that North American ancestors came from Asia.

I wonder whether if the ancestors who trekked across the Bering straight were missing B type blood alelle.

Did I explain it clearly enough?

 

[exigeracer]

It is impossible to have bad weather, there is only bad clothes.

 

[Danoff]

There is a fine line between food and trash. Isn't it funny that something can be so close to going in the trash can, and end up in your body?

This kind of binary decision shows up in relationships as well.

Husband/Wife or dumpee?
Food or Trash?

Keep it forever and make it part of your life? Or toss it out as completely useless to you?

I see how it happens, it's just a little odd.