- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
demo physics discussion
- Thread starter BLACK86
- 550 comments
- 48,608 views
Finally I had a chance to try demo with dfgt. First the ffb had to be adjusted, I ended up with settings: simulation, power steering on and 7.
Had only 13-15 laps in stock 370z and ended up with 1:50:1 and after 5 laps in tuned 1:38:9. Also done some drifting in stock and race version.
First of all, I think the graphics were absolutely awesome. On screenshots it didn't look so smooth, audiences didn't look good as sprites, trees seemed ****, but when driving it all blends in an awesome way. It's best looking racer there is definitely.
Now the ffb.. It is good, especially after turning on powersteering, as it improved countersteering, but still somethings is wrong. Something during drifting, the ffb doesn't aid you the way it should exactly. In real life you don't really think how far will the wheel countersteer when you let it spin or throw it. In GT5TT I had to be very careful when countersteering. Over all I had to be "on my toes" to not spin out when drifting. But the way drift ended sometimes and the way I could exit the corner with power on - it felt nice. It's just as I've said - sometimes it felt nice, but sometimes it bited for reasons I can't explain.
In stock 370z:
Low speed physics definitely were improved, which I am very happy about. I could do circles and 8 figures in second gear, could do some 2nd gear swinging too. Also the sequence of 3 corners at the end could be linked in a drift. It felt pretty good, but it often definitely was too snappy and not stable enough. It almost felt like sometimes something happend in a scripted way, and sometimes it felt realistic.
During racing slides could be controlled nicely. But sometimes things were getting out of control quite weirdly.
Race 370z:
It was super fun to drive it, I could feel the tires nicely and suprisingly the tires were more forgiving after the limit than street tires in stock version. I never drove with slick tires in real life as a driver in a car so I won't comment on that.
Sound:
In my opinion engine sounds were really nice. Tire sound were okay too, but they didn't give much feedback. Tires were making too much noise when they shouldn't and too little when they should. Rather than giving feedback, I felt they were making things only harder.
Also I didn't like the feel of understeer. It just feels off.
Going back to the good things, suspension movement gives very good immersion while driving, I liked it a lot.
To sum it up,
+ very good graphics
+ nice sounds
+ good physics, which I feel can be improved and I hoped they will be for the full version.
+ fun factor, addicting
- understeer feels off
- tire sounds give wrong feedback
- physics over the limit especially during drifting often feel wrong and too unforgiving
- tires feel bit too much like a solid material and not like tires.
If physics and ffb will be improved in full version of gran turismo 5, then I think I will buy myself a ps3 + GT5.
Had only 13-15 laps in stock 370z and ended up with 1:50:1 and after 5 laps in tuned 1:38:9. Also done some drifting in stock and race version.
First of all, I think the graphics were absolutely awesome. On screenshots it didn't look so smooth, audiences didn't look good as sprites, trees seemed ****, but when driving it all blends in an awesome way. It's best looking racer there is definitely.
Now the ffb.. It is good, especially after turning on powersteering, as it improved countersteering, but still somethings is wrong. Something during drifting, the ffb doesn't aid you the way it should exactly. In real life you don't really think how far will the wheel countersteer when you let it spin or throw it. In GT5TT I had to be very careful when countersteering. Over all I had to be "on my toes" to not spin out when drifting. But the way drift ended sometimes and the way I could exit the corner with power on - it felt nice. It's just as I've said - sometimes it felt nice, but sometimes it bited for reasons I can't explain.
In stock 370z:
Low speed physics definitely were improved, which I am very happy about. I could do circles and 8 figures in second gear, could do some 2nd gear swinging too. Also the sequence of 3 corners at the end could be linked in a drift. It felt pretty good, but it often definitely was too snappy and not stable enough. It almost felt like sometimes something happend in a scripted way, and sometimes it felt realistic.
During racing slides could be controlled nicely. But sometimes things were getting out of control quite weirdly.
Race 370z:
It was super fun to drive it, I could feel the tires nicely and suprisingly the tires were more forgiving after the limit than street tires in stock version. I never drove with slick tires in real life as a driver in a car so I won't comment on that.
Sound:
In my opinion engine sounds were really nice. Tire sound were okay too, but they didn't give much feedback. Tires were making too much noise when they shouldn't and too little when they should. Rather than giving feedback, I felt they were making things only harder.
Also I didn't like the feel of understeer. It just feels off.
Going back to the good things, suspension movement gives very good immersion while driving, I liked it a lot.
To sum it up,
+ very good graphics
+ nice sounds
+ good physics, which I feel can be improved and I hoped they will be for the full version.
+ fun factor, addicting
- understeer feels off
- tire sounds give wrong feedback
- physics over the limit especially during drifting often feel wrong and too unforgiving
- tires feel bit too much like a solid material and not like tires.
If physics and ffb will be improved in full version of gran turismo 5, then I think I will buy myself a ps3 + GT5.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,282
- United States
So after playing for about 20 minutes tonight, I have confirmed that I no longer want to play this demo and the full version better get here soon. Spinning about 10 times within 20-30 minutes and hitting restart so many times I can't count, it's just not fun anymore.
You came to close to your limit that is very respectful for controller user. Maybe it's time to buy a wheel
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,282
- United States
Give this man a gold star, what i been thinking since like page 1 of this thread as i read up about half of the entire thread.
The drifters say the game sucks, cause your driving a car that is set to race not drift. You do not want to drift when racing because drifing slows down your lap times period. Nevermind that if there was tire wear your would be trashing your tires in one lap.
When gt5 officially comes out with tuning, modifications and all you will have drift setups that will allow you to drift.
Beyond all that i found the physics solid, the car had weight it behaved like you would expect a car to behave, and the inputs for corrections felt like what you would expect.
Will it be 100% perfect? probably not. Few things all racing sims lack, outside some mega setups that 98% of all people do not have. Is lack of g force inputs, the feel of the tires through the wheel, that all combines when you know a car to tell you almost all you need to know.
Plus your normal road going car you do not have the ability to turn off driving aids, anti lock brakes, etc etc like you can in gt games.
The job of all racing sims, no matter how real they claim to be, is a compromise between the game engine, the platform, and the control schemes to create an illusion of realism to the best of their abilities. And i think from gt5p spec 1 to spec 3 to gt5d they have improved each step of the way.
I done about 25 30 laps in the gt5d started off slow worked my speed up got used to the car and the physics, took about 10 seconds off my early lap times to sit last i checked in the 22k range. Though i will probably hop back into it to just get used to the game and try and imprive my lap times some, when i saw the prizes they were offring it tempered my excitement some lol. Do not own a psp and i have no interest to going to the indy 500 or whatever 1st place is.
One aside is my poor old dfp after being hooked up to my pc for ages seems to be stuck in 270 degree mode, and will not lock into 900 degree mode anymore. But i had little trouble in controlling oversteer with it, ordered a dfgt that should be here in a week or so. Interested to try it with a 900 degree wheel again and see how things differ.
But either way i cannot wait for gt5.
Just want to add about the grass i like that it is like ice, it will discourage people from cutting corners, intersted to see if the full game it is the same way. If it is like gt5p i am positive that rear end braking will be in full effect like gt5p to try and punt people off into the grass.
Last edited:
- 163
- jonzster
Got back into the Tuned car last night after several nights trying to lower my Normal car time(finally acheived that - just), and wow I forgot how fast this thing is, it's a joy to drive. I also noticed more feedback through the wheel when going over bumps /curbs, I guess because of the harder suspension. I love this game 
If anything the stock car would be neutral, the tuned car would be set for pure race. Drift cars are specially tuned for drift. Stock road cars are not cause most people would kill themselves period. Yes you can drift some normal roads cars, and of course you can force oversteer in high end sports cars and exotics, but the hi tech computer systems can make even the most middle of the road drivers look like "drift" experts. Turn off driver aids and forcing oversteer becomes a very tricky affair, for even skilled drivers.
In the full game day one i am positive people will be tuning cars for drifting and setups will soon follow online. Complaining that these cars that have locked suspension settings, differential, and tire compounds are difficult to drift is a tad silly. Nevermind that i am pretty sure gt5 will have drift races like gthd did.
- 454
- Australia
wrong.........Tiff is a racer not a drifter, but if given more time to practice (a couple of days perhaps) he should do ok. If you ever saw Chris Harris from Autocar disspell the myth on how the drift footage of Topgear and Fifth gear is done (on youtube somewhere) you will see how the filming is not continuous and is edited in such a way to hide the spins and looses but show max smoke and angles! Tiff did drift an M5 around some circuit in Spain (???) but it was not true drifting in the D1 sense.......lots of power oversteer and some feignt intiated stuff....but no handbrake (i hate the US e-brake terminology) clutch-kicking, full lock D1 antics.
My work car is a stock 09 Ford Falcon and everytime I attempt to drift it......epic understeering fail.....or carry way too much speed and unsettle it to the point of no return and maybe carry a slide for 3 seconds before it trys to kill me......nah I 'd rather a D1 drift car please!
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
Tiff has made even car handling video from car tricks and drifting so he can handle most cars very nice. http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=8438
Stock cars are tuned to understeer at the limit, It's the safer, more user friendly option of the two... I'm thinking most the people complaining about the drifting have been trying to do it at ridiculous speeds that they would never attempt in a real car in the real world... try and drive/drift the 370z in the TT at medium speeds (or speeds you've actually acheived in real life) and it's quite tame and easy and won't bite ur head off.
I think GT5 demo, is definately improved over GT5p at low speed, first thing I noticed was for the first time since GT3 it is possible to do a donut, vaguely similar to real life:tup: but it's still not right for drifting and I don't agree with what people are saying about car setup. Even a standard 20 year old bmw 325i e30 can do a propper wide donut in second gear with oposite lock.
GT still has the same problem since GT4, it's like drifting with out an lsd, you have to keep reducing the amount of opposite lock to keep the drift (which is not really drifting). Hope they sort this out for the full game, but it's doubtful. The other thing that I find unrealistic in the GT series, is the wheels feel like they are connected to an electric motor rather than an engine. Some cars seem to be able to spin wheels from idle, in low gear low speed or standing start situations, which is not the case for any of the cars I've tried in real life.
GT still has the same problem since GT4, it's like drifting with out an lsd, you have to keep reducing the amount of opposite lock to keep the drift (which is not really drifting). Hope they sort this out for the full game, but it's doubtful. The other thing that I find unrealistic in the GT series, is the wheels feel like they are connected to an electric motor rather than an engine. Some cars seem to be able to spin wheels from idle, in low gear low speed or standing start situations, which is not the case for any of the cars I've tried in real life.
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
yeah the tyre model lacks linear acceleration grip, ridiculous braking grip and ok lateral grip. Which is probably why drifting is odd. And maybe due to a lack of rearward weight transfer when accelerating.
man I hope GT5 can at least match Enthusia when it comes to correct tyre slip feeling and drifting
MR cars in Enthusia actually grip like they should with all that extra weight over the rear tyres
man I hope GT5 can at least match Enthusia when it comes to correct tyre slip feeling and drifting
MR cars in Enthusia actually grip like they should with all that extra weight over the rear tyres
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
has anyone noticed with the first turn after the long straight, when braking, you can make the turn at exactly the same time, wether you brake just in time, really hard, or brake early, gently and coast in?
You would think that by braking later and hard you'd would end up entering the turn earlier...
very strange, it's almost like the physics in that corner is just some preset value....
You would think that by braking later and hard you'd would end up entering the turn earlier...
very strange, it's almost like the physics in that corner is just some preset value....
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,282
- United States
The Outlaw
Premium
- 3,042
- Bay Area, California
- GTP_timeattack
Same...so where does that leave us?
Is it an issue of some of us having different versions of the games, with varying physics? (again
jk)
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
talking about turn 1
yeah, if you brake too late you miss the turn, but I have the no.1 player's ghost here, and sometimes I brake too early, and then ease off the brakes and follow his ghost, catch up and enter the turn at exactly the same time he does
and other times I can brake at the same time he does, really hard and enter at the same time....
doesn't make sense at all!!
yeah, if you brake too late you miss the turn, but I have the no.1 player's ghost here, and sometimes I brake too early, and then ease off the brakes and follow his ghost, catch up and enter the turn at exactly the same time he does
and other times I can brake at the same time he does, really hard and enter at the same time....
doesn't make sense at all!!
- 183
- Gaviao; GTP_Gaviao; Gaviao_GTPT
Another explanation may be that the no.1 players's approach lets him attack corners 2 and 3 faster. Maybe you can get to corner 1 at the same time as him but will be left behind on corner 2. I know this happens to me
I mean that the no.1 player could be at corner 1 sooner than either of us but he chooses not to
I mean that the no.1 player could be at corner 1 sooner than either of us but he chooses not to
- 403
- ozstig / GTP_kayman
Another explanation may be that the no.1 players's approach lets him attack corners 2 and 3 faster. Maybe you can get to corner 1 at the same time as him but will be left behind on corner 2. I know this happens to me
I mean that the no.1 player could be at corner 1 sooner than either of us but he chooses not to
They sacrifice a little speed at corner one to get a better run and carry more speed through two all the way to the entry of three.
edit: You can brake later at 1 but you wont be able to enter corner 2 from far enough right. if you brake earlier at 1 this means you can get on the gas earlier in 2.
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
that's besides the point - even when I compare braking to myself I notice this
if you brake as late as possible and brake hard to 100, you should enter the turn before someone who brakes early
the fact you can brake early and then let off the brakes at bit and catch up to someone who brakes late and still enter the turn at 100, and make the turn, tells me something is wrong
It's like the brakes don't slow you down as much after a point. Which I think is also tied in with the lack of engine braking. There is hardly any engine braking compared to real life and other games....
Engine braking should be twice as much in the lower gears compared to what we have in the TT
if you brake as late as possible and brake hard to 100, you should enter the turn before someone who brakes early
the fact you can brake early and then let off the brakes at bit and catch up to someone who brakes late and still enter the turn at 100, and make the turn, tells me something is wrong
It's like the brakes don't slow you down as much after a point. Which I think is also tied in with the lack of engine braking. There is hardly any engine braking compared to real life and other games....
Engine braking should be twice as much in the lower gears compared to what we have in the TT
- 403
- ozstig / GTP_kayman
i disagree, to me there seems like there is sufficient engine braking. are you slamming down the gears quickly or slowly.
brake at the same spot (150yard marker), once in 6th and then the other shift down to 3rd, youll find with only the brakes you wont make the corner at all.
i've pretty much got turn one down with holland, i have my ghost within his at the braking zone to turn 3 50% of the time.
edit: i find there problem is they wont let you overrev the engine on downshifts.
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