Devastating Demolition of Moore's Major Points in, F9/11

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Newsweek: More Distortions From Michael Moore.

This completely undermines the major theses (and I saw the film, so I know what they were) of Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, and proves that Mikey is every bit as dishonest here as he was in Bowling For Columbine.

But I've wasted my time posting this, haven't I? Nothing I or anyone else could say would cause any of you to swerve from your beliefs that Bush is evil, venal, or that nearly everything Moore says is true, right? Not even the fact that some of his major points, as demonstrated in this article by Mike Isikoff and Mark Hosenball (who are NOT partisan hacks but real pros), are in truth totally hollow?

Will anyone here even grant that Moore may have really lied to them now? I mean, you can still not like Bush; you don't have to forfeit your anger or anything. Just acknowledge that Moore really is a wilfully misleading propagandist. And that it's not okay "because he's on our side" or "doing the right thing."

Yeah, I've probably wasted my time.
 
As far as I'm concerned -

Bush is a retard,

Moore is a kid who didn't get enough attention...

I've seen Bowling, and if you don't see anything else, I can see why someone would really start to dislike Bush. If you have just the slightest bit of common sense, you'll discover, all by yourself, that Moore is a ****head..

Oh well.. Somewhat glad I live in Europe.... Then again... :guilty:
 
Its almost to the point were you can make up anything as long as you use "real film footage' and call it a "documentry" just like Saturday night live used to do, only they called it comedy. You would be surprised at all the idiots that take Mr. Moores films as the gospel truth. Its sickening and its sad. Worse than sheep.
 
ATTENTION: George W. Bush is not from the original cast of Bonanza!!! That liar Moore!!! This completely untermines the major themes of the movie!!!

i can't believe i actually wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that article...

what about the people who knew most of the stuff from the film before they saw it? are they sheep too leddy boy? psychic sheep maybe?

have you guys even seen his films?
 
Flerbizky
I've seen Bowling, and if you don't see anything else, I can see why someone would really start to dislike Bush. If you have just the slightest bit of common sense, you'll discover, all by yourself, that Moore is a ****head..

I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and I've seen Bowling For Columbine. I don't think it takes too much effort to see reasons not to like Bush as Flerbizky says and I didn't really need to see this movie for it to give me a reason to. I was however, disturbed, depressed and scared by this movie because of stuff that was said or shown on screen.

Flerbizky
As far as I'm concerned -

Bush is a retard,

Moore is a kid who didn't get enough attention...

Bush: that's a given, I didn't realize that the election went the way it was depicked in Fahrenheit 9/11?

Moore: could be but at least he does make you think about things.

To not post the same thing in two threads this applies to the Know who Moore is and what he represents thread as well.

Anyway, I didn't know about Micheal Moore untill Bowling For Columbine but I knew that it would be foolish to believe everything he says in his movies but I do think that he does raise questions and issues that this country should seriously look at.
 
wellyrn
ATTENTION: George W. Bush is not from the original cast of Bonanza!!! That liar Moore!!! This completely untermines the major themes of the movie!!!

i can't believe i actually wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that article...
Why, because it might actually have made you question your own preconceived ideas, and it might have pointed out flaws in your hero's actions?

This wasn't just mindless Moore-bashing. Did you get to the part where they mentioned that some of the points Moore poses were good ones? I did. It was a very balanced and fair article, if you happened to actually read it without turning your mind off 3 sentences in when you realized it might have something bad to say about suburban quasi-intellectual poster boy Moore.

Considering that several major points that Moore rests his case on happen to be weak at best, I'd say yes, it does undermine the major theme of the movie. But of course, every pearl of wisdom he utters is lapped up by his horde of sychophants, because they get to feel rebellious and smart and superior, just like he does.
 
Moore is the revenge for the Star commision that tortured Clinton :) . @ Welryn : not physic..maybe physcho ?
 
It's msnbc... and no nothing is undermined. If it were even possible for a film to be 'undermined' it doesn't happen here.

Did charlton hestons watch undermine the theme of Ben Hur? Did Ben Affleck's ****ty acting undermine Pearl Harbour?

This article could be easily dissected in the same way F9/11 could. I won't waste my time because they have a right to thier opinion however irrelevant it may be.
 
Did Ben Affleck's ****ty acting undermine Pearl Harbour?

Yes.

I won't waste my time because they have a right to thier opinion however irrelevant it may be.

They proved that they can dissect the movie. I'd like to see you prove that you can dissect that article.
 
Star commision investigated whitwater and anything and anybody they could to hang Clinton..it was a disgrace and Star should have been disbarred for all the leaks and slander he let go, an impartial person could see the guy had a vendetta , the guy should have recused himself, but instead he pressed ahead on the most flimsy excuses for evidence and innuendo. he tried witness intimidation and kept the so called commision going far longer than justified, it was a plainly partisan republican attempted lynching of a President they felt unworthy of defeating there guy..it was bogus a collosal waste of money and transparent to all but the most jaded syncopants of the far right...much like Michael Moore to the left without the umbrella protection of the courts. Moore is just ruining the reputations of honest journalist by calling his comedy a documentry.
 
Star commision investigated whitwater and anything and anybody they could to hang Clinton..it was a disgrace and Star should have been disbarred for all the leaks and slander he let go, an impartial person could see the guy had a vendetta , the guy should have recused himself, but instead he pressed ahead on the most flimsy excuses for evidence and innuendo. he tried witness intimidation and kept the so called commision going far longer than justified, it was a plainly partisan republican attempted lynching of a President they felt unworthy of defeating there guy..it was bogus a collosal waste of money and transparent to all but the most jaded syncopants of the far right...much like Michael Moore to the left without the umbrella protection of the courts. Moore is just ruining the reputations of honest journalist by calling his comedy a documentry.

Be that as it may...

Clinton was breaking the law and got away with it with only a little impeachment that everybody has already forgotten.
 
They didn't prove anything... they just decided what people are "supposed to think" when they see the movie and then give some half-baked explanation of why they shouldn't think that. If you think the article "proves" something then you let me know what it is...

How did Clinton come up? If you think an ex-presidents penis is relevant to this discussion then you just think about penis too much. Penis.
 
They didn't prove anything...

They proved they can dissect the movie.

they just decided what people are "supposed to think" when they see the movie

Were they wrong? Was it not what you were "supposed to think"?

and then give some half-baked explanation of why they shouldn't think that.

Or explain why Moore's reasons why you should think that are half-baked.
 
Wha-wha-wha-what?

I know you are but what am I!?



"Were they wrong? Was it not what you were "supposed to think"?"

It is open to interpretation. They are wrong for trying to tell people what to think.

"Or explain why Moore's reasons why you should think that are half-baked."

Is this a sentance?
 
Here's another article in from todays Phila. Daily News to ignore.
MOORE FICTION THAN FACT

By DOM GIORDANO


The summer movie season is a great way to escape the real world for a couple of hours. You can choose from the earth freezing over in "The Day After Tomorrow," Harry Potter's latest adventures, or Spider-Man facing the evil Doctor Octopus.

And if those film fantasies don't pop your popcorn, you can watch Michael Moore battling the truth and facts in his latest documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Let me be upfront in my background in addressing the inaccuracies and exaggerations in "Fahrenheit 9/11." I liked "Roger and Me" and admired Moore's doggedness and storytelling ability in that film. However, since that time I have seen Moore in many disputes over accuracy and fairness in his subsequent films and books.

One other piece of information - I support President Bush and the war in Iraq.

In his boorish acceptance speech at the 2003 Academy Awards, Moore proclaimed that President Bush was a fictitious president and the reasons for the Iraq conflict were false and misleading. How ironic that Moore is now getting similar criticism for playing loose and fast with the facts in this film.

One of the most troubling parts of Moore's film is how he mocks President Bush for the seven minutes he continued to read to schoolchildren in Florida after learning of the 9/11 attacks. Gwendolyn Tose-Rigell, the principal at Emma E. Booker Elementary School, and a woman who says she did not vote for Bush, told a Florida newspaper "I don't think anyone could have handled it better." She says the video doesn't convey all that was going on in the classroom and that Bush's posture had a calming effect and "helped us get through a very difficult day."

One of the best examples of Moore's vision colliding with the facts is Moore's claim that President Bush arranged special flights to get 142 Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, out of the country due to special business connections with the Bush family.

Ironically, this is contradicted by major Bush critic and former terrorism czar Richard Clarke, who recently told Hill Magazine that he was responsible for allowing the Saudis to leave with the help of the FBI. The 9/11 Commission also stated that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

Moore even exaggerates Bush's vacation time, inferring that he took off 42 percent of his first eight months in office. Moore counts weekends at Camp David and working vacations at the Texas ranch where Bush met at length with Tony Blair, Vincente Fox, and others. The actual figure of real vacation time comes out to about 15 percent. But why let real numbers get in the way of a documentary's agenda?

Moore also makes much of the fact that President Bush had ties to the bin Laden family through Bush's father's relationship with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm. It is true that until recently that Bush Sr. was a senior adviser and some members of bin Laden's family did have $2 million invested with Carlyle. However the group has a bipartisan list of partners, including President Clinton's SEC chairman Arthur Levitt.

The film also claims that the group gained from 9/11 because it owned United Defense, a military contractor. However, this firm's $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system is one of the only weapons systems canceled by the Bush administration.

Moore's most misleading attempt to connect Bush business interests to the war on terror is when Taliban leaders visited Texas and Washington in 1997. It's true that in December 1997, a delegation of Taliban officials visited Unocal, a gas and oil company with interests in Texas. Unocal was trying to strike a deal to construct a gas pipeline through Afghanistan. Moore implies the delegation met with Bush. The fact is the delegation did not meet with Bush but did meet with Clinton administration officials at the State Department.

No doubt Moore has a great eye and a good comedic touch.

But we are at war and a presidential election hangs in the balance. Thanks to our hard-fought freedoms, Moore is entitled to make his cinematic rants against what he claims is a "fictitious president." Of course, it's equally fair to criticize him when he's guilty of fictitious filmmaking.
Edit; end of origional article...

Of course as soon as he said "Bush supporter" some just said " ha! so it can't be true" or "he's got an adgenda right wing lies crap etc. etc." instead of "hmmm he may have a point maybe its worth checking out"..nothing like keeping an open mind.
 
Wha-wha-wha-what?

I know you are but what am I!?

Read my post again, think about it for a second. Let the meaning of the words sink into your head... then try again.
 
One of the best examples of Moore's vision colliding with the facts is Moore's claim that President Bush arranged special flights to get 142 Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, out of the country due to special business connections with the Bush family.

Ironically, this is contradicted by major Bush critic and former terrorism czar Richard Clarke, who recently told Hill Magazine that he was responsible for allowing the Saudis to leave with the help of the FBI. The 9/11 Commission also stated that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

Notice that no one can refute any of the actual facts. Like that 142 Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, DID get out of the country due to special business connections with the Bush family. So 1 person says it was not handled well and 1 person says it was. That sounds like you typical partisan situation. Now thats the best?!?! The only question it raises in my mind is whos the idiot on the commission that thinks letting the Saudis out of the country after 9/11 was professional!
 
How about the guys that determined they were innocent and it was best that they leave ..maybe for there own protection ? Or how about we just kill everybody named Bin Laden and just call it a day ? I guess you think they should all be in jail for having a bum relative ? Or better yet since you seem to think that all Saudi's are guilty of something..lets invade them ! Think of all the oil ! So FREAKIN WHAT ! THEY LEFT AND THEY NEW SOMEBODY ! BIG FRICKIN DEAL !
Thats a conspiracy ? WHAT THE FRICK DID THEY DO ? WHAT ARE THEY GUILTY OF ?
 
that 142 Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, DID get out of the country due to special business connections with the Bush family.

It's the part about the special business connections that is refuted.
 
ledhed
How about the guys that determined they were innocent and it was best that they leave ..maybe for there own protection ? Or how about we just kill everybody named Bin Laden and just call it a day ? I guess you think they should all be in jail for having a bum relative ? Or better yet since you seem to think that all Saudi's are guilty of something..lets invade them ! Think of all the oil ! So FREAKIN WHAT ! THEY LEFT AND THEY NEW SOMEBODY ! BIG FRICKIN DEAL !
Thats a conspiracy ? WHAT THE FRICK DID THEY DO ? WHAT ARE THEY GUILTY OF ?

i think anyone will see how hypocritical this is so i'll leave it alone...

It doesn't matter that the entire US airspace was shut down and no one else was allowed to fly?

Im not going to speculate just how 'special' thier relationships are but it is common knowledge that they exist.
 
So whats hypocritical about it ? After all this time name ONE of the people that left , who were investigated that should have not been allowed to go ?
No one can or did , although they WISH they could . Its all a bunch of smoke and no fire. Who left that should not have left , who got away ? What did they do ?
 
wellyrn
They didn't prove anything... they just decided what people are "supposed to think" when they see the movie and then give some half-baked explanation of why they shouldn't think that. If you think the article "proves" something then you let me know what it is...
wellyrn
You guys are incredible. You haven't even seen the movie and you are trying to preach the truth about it to people! Just keep your eyes and ears closed, your mouths open and im sure things will blow over before it is proven how ignorant and gullible you are.
Way to go, hypocrite. You're an "intellectual" chicken****. Take your little pot shots, recite your little script, and then try to dodge any questioning of your ideals by accusing the questioners of doing exactly what you do.

Nobody with any sense needs to take a word you say seriously any more, if they ever did.
 
danoff
Translation: Guilty until proven innocent.
Of course. Due process doesn't apply to the wealthy. ;)

But it is difficult to think of an issue on which Bush has not suppressed the truth if not outright lied. While "stretching the truth" is a deplorable trait in a film producer, it is a far more dangerous one in a president.
 
wellyrn do you even know how to read? is someone reading things for you and then typing your responses? Did you really read the MSNBC article? It has been PROVEN that President Bush was in no way responsible for letting the Saudis go. It was also proven in that the "special business connections" are crap. There never were any. Bush was not even involved in the companies that were dealing with the Bin Laden family. Hey, how bout this: Did you know that the Bin Laden family of Saudi Arabia has disowned Osama and does not even recognize him as a member of the family? So even if there were connections to between the Bushes and the Saudi Bin Ladens, that still does not make a George-Osama connection. Can you actually stop telling us we're all stupid for one second and support your own theories? Our side consistently produces supporting evidence for our arguments that are trustworthy, you have yet to produce anything substantial to support your side........... :odd:
 
But it is difficult to think of an issue on which Bush has not suppressed the truth if not outright lied. While "stretching the truth" is a deplorable trait in a film producer, it is a far more dangerous one in a president.

I'm not claiming you can't do it, but I'd like to see some supporting evidence.
 
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