DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

[doblocruiser]

Regarding the tyres, tarmac is about the only thing that can be consistent between the two, the data would just be completely irrelevant to Dirt. Pirelli F1 Tyre data will not be the same as cut grooved road rally tyres. So why would they bother sharing any information at all?

Simply because the F1 game gets the feel of driving on tarmac correctly over to the player. Both are cars and are working according to the same rules so even if we have different types of tires and aerodynamics. The base rule still apply for both. I showed one example when that Porsche video came out. The way it "looked" really does look worrying. Driving on tarmac isn't Tokyo drift! It was less obvious in the recent videos, so maybe it was due to how the car was driven. Either way it doesn't help their case in actually showing a car can be run properly on tarmac.

Example:


That backend does look stable and grips. Something I don't see in the tarmac vids from Dirt2.0

With that said I am looking very much forward to try it out for myself.

 

[Theiceman1]

Didn't the bloke on the video say that he was not happy with the steering setup or something like that?. But yea do agree on the porsche gameplay video it was drifting round every corner....

 

[MagpieRacer]

Didn't the bloke on the video say that he was not happy with the steering setup or something like that?. But yea do agree on the porsche gameplay video it was drifting round every corner....

Yeah. To be fair @Jimmy B has a pretty sophisticated direct drive setup so I imagine not much feels as good as that.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I'm presuming that they are denying any and all VR support so that there won't be a backlash when they release a VR version for $20-$40 a year later. Teasing a functionality and then charging for it tends to anger customers.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm presuming that they are denying any and all VR support so that there won't be a backlash when they release a VR version for $20-$40 a year later. Teasing a functionality and then charging for it tends to anger customers.

There aren't any plans for VR as far as we know. Dirt rally 1 VR was a £9.99 expansion as I recall.

Wouldn't get any hopes up though .

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

There aren't any plans for VR as far as we know. Dirt rally 1 VR was a £9.99 expansion as I recall.

Wouldn't get any hopes up though .

Plans aren't needed until a user base is established. They already have metrics from VR purchases on the previous title. If the install base grows to a substantial degree past their Dirt VR sales, then conforming the game for a VR sku is simply money on the table.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Plans aren't needed until a user base is established. They already have metrics from VR purchases on the previous title. If the install base grows to a substantial degree past their Dirt VR sales, then conforming the game for a VR sku is simply money on the table.

Indeed. Hence there are no plans 👍.

 

[Racetee]

Plans aren't needed until a user base is established. They already have metrics from VR purchases on the previous title. If the install base grows to a substantial degree past their Dirt VR sales, then conforming the game for a VR sku is simply money on the table.

I'm pretty sure plans are already made for a few years ahead. These guys are not some garage studio where they just sit around and smoke weed until someone comes up with a new idea.
The potential income of this release has already been calculated far far ahead, otherwise they wouldn't even enter development. This is not some indie game where some guys get together, release a game and then see what happens.

 

[Rodger Davies]

I'm only interested in the Rallycross part of Dirt 2.0.

I'm presuming that they are denying any and all VR support so that there won't be a backlash when they release a VR version for $20-$40 a year later. Teasing a functionality and then charging for it tends to anger customers.

My own guess, and it's just a guess, is that they're in talks with VR hardware manufacturers about splitting costs. Remember, the hardware manufacturer(s) contributed to DR1's VR support. Now, if this is the case, they can't announce VR support until any negotiations are complete and they'll be waiting for this to be concluded before they can announce it.

With the risk of possible review downvoting backlash, I hope they do find a VR plan/resolution before the game launches.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The sad thing about review bombing is I bet most people who do it wouldn't even be affected. See it happen with a lot of games like that and it's a shame. Hopefully it doesn't come to that but I don't think they should be in a position where it needs a solution to stop it happening.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

In the interest of honesty, I wanted to post in the comments thread and announce that the article title has changed. When I went through the editing process on the weekend I zeroed in on @Jimmy B's "magical" stage design comment, but the title (which I had selected) didn't accurately reflect some of the reservations or concerns he had for other aspects of the game. The new title does a better job of that, and it's always our goal to get our writers' impressions to the community as accurately as possible.

Thanks to everyone for their continued support!

 

[RedRockValley]

Overall looking forward to this title, despite some pitfalls. Let’s hope they fix up the tarmac physics during post-release support

 

[kikie]

I watched a few early access Rallycross youtube clips and it looks marvellous. Maybe Dirt 2.0 is worthwhile getting even though it's only the Rallycross part I'm interested in.

Knowing how much fun Wreckfest is, Dirt 2.0 will probably give me as much joy as Wreckfest.

 

[doblocruiser]

I watched a few early access Rallycross youtube clips and it looks marvellous. Maybe Dirt 2.0 is worthwhile getting even though it's only the Rallycross part I'm interested in.

Knowing how much fun Wreckfest is, Dirt 2.0 will probably give me as much joy as Wreckfest.

I have zero interest in rallycross but I am happy to see it ticks different boxes for different people 👍

Enjoy

 

[Moby45]

I too am interested in the RallyCross portion but not as much as the Rally side of things.

An interesting comment from the guys over at Team VVV was that a possible reason why RallyCross is in this game could come down to marketing in different areas of the world. Where as just a rally game would be great but probably wouldn't make the money it needs to make unless it offers something else to go with it, hence RallyCross.

Sad to admit, but I do fit that description. Even though I want the game to at least be 90% rally or more. I still find myself enjoying the game more when they have 1 other thing to go with it. That is just me though. I played the crap out of DR and still pick it up every now and then. SO I am really happy to test out DR2.

Eventually, maybe one day RallyCross will get big enough to have it's own stand alone game so they won't have to add it to the rally game, but that may not be likely anytime soon. So I will for sure be happy with what DR2 actually is.

 

[fernandito]

Difficult to trust Codemasters since the days of the first Dirt. Dirt Rally was the one and only surprise we got from them ten years after they forever changed their ways as a company. And still, It has suffered from the same issue all Dirt games have; just a couple of actual long stages per country (just six lol), and the rest of them being variants of the formers. Total content lackluster, that is what CM dirt games are about, first dirt rally included.

It looks like a recycled Dirt 4 to me. And oh well that Porche Video on Tarmac so many laughs. Doing that is going to be tons of fun, but you know., dirt rally is at least supposed to try on realism as opposed to its other lackluster in content too, arcady brothers.

And if memory serves me well Jimmy, hadn't you seen some magic on Dirt4 too prior release or something.

And heck trow at me with anything you have on hand right now if you wish to.., I mean.., why the heck rallycross?? why??!! Why do you have to include goddamn rallycross on a rally game, again!

Ten years same policy and on the same outdated engine. Bit sick of these guys really

 

[MagpieRacer]

All based on opinion mind you. Dirt 4 was a great game, lots of people saw some magic in that title.

They can't please everyone I guess. I really like what I've seen, recycling some stuff from Dirt 4 makes sense as there's a lot of new cars that DR1 didn't have so sensible thinking really.

Plus I'm a firm believer that the perfect rally game doesn't exist because everyone always wants more regardless what a developer does. More stages, more cars, no rallycross, more Rallycross, physics are crap, physics are too real, it's not licensed, it's licensed and there isn't enough variety, why's that there, why's that not. Same story anyone releases a new rally game.

 

[Moby45]

Plus I'm a firm believer that the perfect rally game doesn't exist because everyone always wants more regardless what a developer does. More stages, more cars, no rallycross, more Rallycross, physics are crap, physics are too real, it's not licensed, it's licensed and there isn't enough variety, why's that there, why's that not. Same story anyone releases a new rally game.

That pretty much sums up this thread. Lol

[/close thread]

 

[torque99]

@doblocruiser You are right I gave F1 2017 and Demo2018 a try again and it definitely has the upper hand with textures and graphics each time. The Photo Mode was helped by Evolution from what was said at the time (F12017).

I'm hoping they can use or transfer this tech using the upgraded Ego Engine 3.0 and take this detail to the new Dirt 2.0. 👍

 

[doblocruiser]

@doblocruiser You are right I gave F1 2017 and Demo2018 a try again and it definitely has the upper hand with textures and graphics each time. The Photo Mode was helped by Evolution from what was said at the time (F12017).

I'm hoping they can use or transfer this tech using the upgraded Ego Engine 3.0 and take this detail to the new Dirt 2.0. 👍

Plus F1 has 18 cars on track and it runs at 60fps also. So what do they do with all that overhead in DR2? Surely can't all be physics and track lenght or does it?

The release is 3 weeks away and I am looking forward to it. Fresh stages which seem to be created with great care and love but will they match those awesome stages of WRC7 and SLRE? Wait and see I guess. People have been raving about Poland but that will bé a tough nut to crack seen how great it is in WRC7.

 

[fernandito]

Yeah yeah and the cool "you can't please everybody" story that is also told in all directions year after year comes forward too. Look, if you are going to please rally fans, then just release a game featuring Rally only. It's just that easy, and you will please them all. Remove Rallycross, and then you won't get that flak, because that alone would kinda guarantee a couple of countries more at release at the very least., making it a total of eight like in the old glorious days of CM, when they truly cared about things. Why the heck do they have to put Rallycross in a game that is supposed to be dedicated to rally fans (so you can please them). And like this ten years in a row alread, first dr included.

That said I've found this line on youtube comments on the Audi Video that is pretty cool actually, and basically sums it up to perfection:

Roman Kopp 3 days ago
"Another Codemasters reskin of old games and again lack of content."

The only time CM has really tried hard to be the old good school CM again was when doing and releasing Dirt Rally1. All that Early Access process they did, with that cool community manager "on a diet", and the original team of programmers interacting with us all day.., now that was the best of CM since the ColinMcRae gold days. In the end of course almost all of them got fired in the usual line of CM. Or did anyone here think dr2 has been developed by the original team.

Then you know, Dirt 4 lol. And now this barebones continuation of that one charged full €60-70. Okaay right send my ten copies please.

 

[Pfei]

No trophies related to multiplayer or leagues/clubs.

I already knew leagues weren't in the game, but the lack of online multiplayer achievements is worrying.

https://www.trueachievements.com/game/DiRT-RALLY-20/achievements

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yeah yeah and the cool "you can't please everybody" story that is also told in all directions year after year comes forward too. Look, if you are going to please rally fans, then just release a game featuring Rally only. It's just that easy, and you will please them all. Remove Rallycross, and then you won't get that flak, because that alone would kinda guarantee a couple of countries more at release at the very least., making it a total of eight like in the old glorious days of CM, when they truly cared about things. Why the heck do they have to put Rallycross in a game that is supposed to be dedicated to rally fans (so you can please them). And like this ten years in a row alread, first dr included.

That said I've found this line on youtube comments on the Audi Video that is pretty cool actually, and basically sums it up to perfection:

Roman Kopp 3 days ago
"Another Codemasters reskin of old games and again lack of content."

The only time CM has really tried hard to be the old good school CM again was when doing and releasing Dirt Rally1. All that Early Access process they did, with that cool community manager "on a diet", and the original team of programmers interacting with us all day.., now that was the best of CM since the ColinMcRae gold days. In the end of course almost all of them got fired in the usual line of CM. Or did anyone here think dr2 has been developed by the original team.

Then you know, Dirt 4 lol. And now this barebones continuation of that one charged full €60-70. Okaay right send my ten copies please.

Yeah yeah and the cool "you can't please everybody" story that is also told in all directions year after year comes forward too. Look, if you are going to please rally fans, then just release a game featuring Rally only. It's just that easy, and you will please them all. Remove Rallycross, and then you won't get that flak, because that alone would kinda guarantee a couple of countries more at release at the very least., making it a total of eight like in the old glorious days of CM, when they truly cared about things. Why the heck do they have to put Rallycross in a game that is supposed to be dedicated to rally fans (so you can please them). And like this ten years in a row alread, first dr included.

That said I've found this line on youtube comments on the Audi Video that is pretty cool actually, and basically sums it up to perfection:

Roman Kopp 3 days ago
"Another Codemasters reskin of old games and again lack of content."

The only time CM has really tried hard to be the old good school CM again was when doing and releasing Dirt Rally1. All that Early Access process they did, with that cool community manager "on a diet", and the original team of programmers interacting with us all day.., now that was the best of CM since the ColinMcRae gold days. In the end of course almost all of them got fired in the usual line of CM. Or did anyone here think dr2 has been developed by the original team.

Then you know, Dirt 4 lol. And now this barebones continuation of that one charged full €60-70. Okaay right send my ten copies please.

You just keep saying "Dirt 4 lol" without elaborating what you disliked but anyway.

Again it's all opinion based and no one can change your opinion. You do seem to think that this whole game making malarkey is easy and that content can just, be there all the time. You can't compare new games to old games it just doesn't work. How studios work now vs then is just too different to really compare.

Rallycross is neither here nor there but has been part of the series since 2007 so it's as engrained into the history of this game as rally is.

 

[Wolfe]

...I'm a firm believer that the perfect rally game doesn't exist because everyone always wants more regardless what a developer does. More stages, more cars, no rallycross, more Rallycross, physics are crap, physics are too real, it's not licensed, it's licensed and there isn't enough variety, why's that there, why's that not. Same story anyone releases a new rally game.

It wouldn't hurt if we had a game that made procedurally-generated stages its thing, leaving other games to offer a select number of hand-crafted real world stages. A game that did a real great job of rallycross so that discipline could be covered (coughPCARS2cough), allowing for games to focus exclusively on rally without disappointing rallycross fans. A rally game with polished arcade-style physics that aren't just wobbly vague pivot-steering, and a legitimate polished rally simulator...

Instead we almost always get messy slippery physics, and only the occasional stab at a simulator (with limited success); a choice between Codemasters' shenanigans or a relatively unpolished game from the likes of Milestone or Kylotonn; and games that are forced to diversify just to survive.

It's just a niche (sub-)sub-genre that can't seem to attract bigger or better developers, or healthier competition. So yeah, players with different interests are stuck in the same boat.

 

[Silver Arrows]

a choice between Codemasters' shenanigans or a relatively unpolished game from the likes of Milestone or Kylotonn

This is the salient point that should be taken from this discussion being had. No matter how much praise is given to them in other aspects, games from both Milestone and Kylotonn look like ****, and play about the same. I've played SLRE, and both Ride 1 and 2, hell Gravel as well. I come away from all three games with the same opinion: they feel cheap, they look like crap, and more often then not, they only are marginal successes because they go into incredibly niche genres where they can try just hard enough where it looks like they struggle, but not enough where it's obvious it's a cashgrab. Ditto for the WRC games too - aside from the latest cars and licensed stages, what makes it actually worthwhile as a title for me to drop at least 80 dollars a year on? Because playing WRC 6 when it was the free game on Xbox Live gave me no confidence that I would be playing any WRC game longer then 10 minutes with how cheap it felt.

Ultimately, I will still probably enjoy DiRT Rally 2.0, mainly because at their core, Codies' games are polished (for the most part) look decent enough where I don't feel like i'm playing a game from the beginning of the last generation, and they have the best mix of content and simulation that I am looking for. (Plus, not being totally hostile to pad users ala SMS is nice)


To make the (valid, and by this point deafening) complaints about the DiRT series that have been present for years by this point out as

They can't please everyone I guess.

is honestly a tad bit insulting. Again - sim racers will drag other companies for the smallest things, and hold grudges. What makes Codemasters any different - is it because of their position on a market where really, it's just them and a couple of also-rans?

 

[fernandito]

You do seem to think that this whole game making malarkey is easy and that content can just, be there all the time.

Ah yes I have heard that one too. I think you have to say it second right after the "you can't please everybody" automated quote. That was the correct order if I recall well.

In all seriousness now, look around you and you will see companies with a much more smaller budget such as sms making games with insane content like project cars 2. And let's not forget about the very Ego engine because there really is where the laughs could begin to be heard out loud. Actually, the main culprit for this series to continue to make tarmac driving that mediocre and unrealistic is the very nature of the engine which is outdated to the core, made from the scratch to be arcade in nature. And there they are, twelve years after still squeezing it to the last penny.

The lecture got already old man.

You just keep saying "Dirt 4 lol" without elaborating what you disliked but anyway.

I didn't think it was necessary to elaborate on the obvious, unless.., oh wait you mean you find d4 handling more realistic than Dirt Rally, or at the very least less arcade?

Rallycross is neither here nor there but has been part of the series since 2007 so it's as engrained into the history of this game as rally is.

Rallycross is not rally, and if you wanna make rally fans happy, which is what you seek on the dirt rally spin-off right, you then remove it and that could for sure allow to more rally locations, which is the main complaint most of rally fans have with Dirt Rally, too.

 

[Moby45]

Rallycross is not rally, and if you wanna make rally fans happy, which is what you seek on the dirt rally spin-off right, you then remove it and that could for sure allow to more rally locations, which is the main complaint most of rally fans have with Dirt Rally, too.

Rally fans will never be happy though. That is kind of the point the guy was making earlier. The WRC series is rally only and people aren't really happy with that game either.

The real issue is that there aren't enough fans out there that buy rally games because it is such a niche market and it seems that nobody in that niche market likes to agree on anything. Lol

Also, on your SMS comment. THe content of PC2 was very wonderful. But all that content was rather pointless when the game itself was not really fun to play. So that small budget does show off in that game with its drawbacks. They have all that content and plenty of bugs to go with them. I still own PC2 and it is still loaded on my PS4 but I hardly touch the game because it really wasn't all that great. It felt like PC1 with new tracks and cars. So, it is kind of like they did the same thing that you dislike about codemasters. Codemasters have just been doing it longer so [sarcasm]I guess that makes them a crappier developer.[\sarcasm]

 

[fernandito]

Rally fans will never be happy though.

oh really, wasn't aware of that. Must have been really desconected from the rally scene these last twenty years. But luckily for me I have you now to debrief me about my own community!, Your feedback should prove invaluable, as such seems to be your wisdom too on the matter.

The real issue is that there aren't enough fans out there that buy rally

Dirt Rally1 total copies sold make me think you may be very much mistaken. And now a sequel's been done and about to hit the shelves. I guess this is only because rally fans are very few indeed and CM probably don't make revenue from making games such a minority.

Not sure what you are on, but I'll do a special effort for you on the next ones.

The WRC series is rally only and people aren't really happy with that game either.

Almost no one including me ain't happy with the WRC series because of its very bad physics tittle after tille, instalment after instalment, year after year. I other words, the complaints about the WRC saga have nothing to do with content which is pretty good in terms of number of stages, as well as design wise.

You have to try harder man. Very very weak.

Also, on your SMS comment. THe content of PC2 was very wonderful. But all that content was rather pointless when the game itself was not really fun to play.

Not sure if serious. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in case you wanna reply and try explaining what you mean with pc2 not being fun, but a little more elaborated.

And what's that /sarcasm thing. Look you really don't look like the brightest one of your promotion, but still I'd ask you to at least try making your point on why pc2 is that bad, but now while sustaining more coherence to it, as well as making it understandable if possible. If it is that you just don't like the physics and all that then fair enough; but if you have truly meant that the content doesn't make for it then you have to be kidding epic time.

 

[MagpieRacer]

In all seriousness now, look around you and you will see companies with a much more smaller budget such as sms making games with insane content like project cars 2.

The lecture got already old man.

I didn't think it was necessary to elaborate on the obvious, unless.., oh wait you mean you find d4 handling more realistic than Dirt Rally, or at the very least less arcade?

Rallycross is not rally, and if you wanna make rally fans happy, which is what you seek on the dirt rally spin-off right, you then remove it and that could for sure allow to more rally locations, which is the main complaint most of rally fans have with Dirt Rally, too.

it's not a lecture. It's a difference of opinion. You cant "lecture" someone when they simply have a different view to you.

At no point do I claim Dirt 4 to be more realistic or anything of the sort. Dirt 4 is a very enjoyable game, my most played game of 2017 and still gets very regular outings today. Only the Forza Motorsport games have raked in more gameplay hours on my Xbox than Dirt 4. You don't like it, I do like. You like project cars 2, I don't. Simple stuff.

Ultimately, I will still probably enjoy DiRT Rally 2.0, mainly because at their core, Codies' games are polished (for the most part) look decent enough where I don't feel like i'm playing a game from the beginning of the last generation, and they have the best mix of content and simulation that I am looking for. (Plus, not being totally hostile to pad users ala SMS is nice)


To make the (valid, and by this point deafening) complaints about the DiRT series that have been present for years by this point out as

is honestly a tad bit insulting. Again - sim racers will drag other companies for the smallest things, and hold grudges. What makes Codemasters any different - is it because of their position on a market where really, it's just them and a couple of also-rans?

This is it really. It's not like the early to mid 2000s where there was immense competition in the rally game segment. Realistically we have 2 developers releasing rally games with any regularity and that's a shame. I think the lapse in popularity of the WRC in general has a massive effect on this.

 

[Racetee]

No trophies related to multiplayer or leagues/clubs.

I already knew leagues weren't in the game, but the lack of online multiplayer achievements is worrying.

https://www.trueachievements.com/game/DiRT-RALLY-20/achievements

I'm sure online leagues are comming soon after release like in Dirt 4.