DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

Well done to Codemasters for getting the rights implementing Oculus Rift VR in DiRT Rally 2.0, now they'll sell an additional 10 copies of the game! ;)
 
Pfei
@fernandito what you do not understand is that this is a DiRT game. They have always been multi-discipline. I don't like RX, either, but this being a DiRT game, well, it's multi-discipline. If this were called "Pure, 100%, AndNothingButPointToPointRally 2.0" then yes, I would be angry if RX was part of it.

@fernandito is salty and, frankly, I am too. IMO this is just a cash grab with a re-skinned DiRT 4 and taking advantage of DiRT Rally's good name. Why do I think that?

  • Snip

There is lots of negativity floating around regarding DR2.0, whereas for DR and D4 it was pure hype and excitement. Even the Codies DiRTY Gossip thread is "quiet" if you compare it to the months leading up to D4's release. It seems a lot of people have abandoned ship and are in "wait and see" mode.

Personally I don't see enough content or improvements to justify eighty dollars. The only way CM could get me on board at this point is if the DLC locations are all new, and some remastered DR locations were coming for free. Or PSVR support.
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Hey man, what a great post. I'm completely on the other side of the fence to you but with all the childish bashing in this thread it's nice to see a really well thought out post like this.

I'm looking at it a different way. I agree that Codemasters could have taken bigger steps and sometimes it seems like you're trying to work out whether they've moved further backwards or forwards. That said, DR1 is possibly my favourite game in recent memory. I only paid £20 for it too, so this one is 2.5x more expensive. However, I'm still really looking forward to it. If I may...


  • Thin on content again. Only six rally locations with 25-30km each (Argentina only has 16km).
Agreed, this is my biggest disappointment. Especially Argentina. Looks like there will be about 140km of unique stage mileage in game at launch. However, I loved the locations in DR1 and these are simply the best crafted rally locations in any game ever, a real quality over quantity approach. I prayed for more locations to be added to DR and finally they have done.

  • The stages look completely boring and uninspired. To my eyes, most of them look like they were created with Your Stage. Poland and Argentina seem to be the exception.
When they announced the locations I wasn't too impressed. USA? It was awful in D4. However, now that I've seen a stage in each, I am really looking forward to each - I wish Spain wasn't the tarmac choice but I know the real stage and it's superb. Australia looks incredibly challenging, a bit like Wales in DR1. USA, surprisingly, seems to be a forest full of hairpins and junctions, each one looking unique. When they add some upgraded DR1 locations to the list, we're going to have 9 top quality locations with all major styles covered.

  • Leagues are not available at launch.
They've said they should follow on in a matter of weeks (if not days) after launch. Their new forum seems to be tied into them so Ive no doubt.

  • Possible witholding content behind a paywall. Gr. B RWD for example. They were in DR and D4. They will be here, but this time they will likely charge us for them.
This doesn't bother me. They're upgrading the physics and adding new cars to the class; it doesn't bother me paying a little extra for this work.

  • "More of the same" car list that lost lots of good cars.
The car list is a similar length and it lost good cars - that feels a little contradictory to me. The DS, 240Z, Golf, Polo, Fabia, C3, 208 R2, Camaro, Mustang, Aston, 911, S1 RX, Megane RX, Impreza RX, Fiesta MkVIII are all new and the Audi S1 E2 and Mitsubishi Evo VI are new to DR. The Escort MkII and Polo RX are new models. That's a huge percentage of new cars to play with and that's before the DLC which will likely have the Group B Porsche included.

  • We will likely see remastered DR stages in the paid DLC.
To me that's a consumer friendly approach. They could have done it the other way around and included them in the base game and kept three new venues for the DLC but this makes the old stages a choice and everyone gets the new ones on day one. The old stages will have new textures, new foliage models, new spectator models, new weather effects, surface degredation and updated AI. We're likely to get three of those in one pack for the price of a pizza. Bring it on!

  • No VR support.
Already fixed for Oculus and it's obvious they're in discussion with the other manufacturers. I hope you get the PSVR option.

  • Your Stage dropped (it's a wonderful idea - just needs more development and variety).
It is, but they clearly know it's not ready. There was an interview with Paul Coleman talking about the D4 locations needing three times the work of DR1 ones; for now give me more of the great handcrafted stages until the tech is better.

  • Paid DLC locations will split the PvP and league userbase.
Let's see how these will be implemented.



So my summary - I loved DR. I disliked D4. But this feels like a proper sequel. Within the next three months, I’ll have a game with the 9 best crafted rally locations in gaming and 200km of stage, (with weather variants that weren’t in DR1) with 44 cars covering the history of rally.

The career mode looks like a step forward from DR1 (simple mode done well, rather than D4s advanced career done badly) as do the physics (cars have weight, 4WD was improved in D4 and so long as RWD is similar to DR then I’m laughing). I can also finally play DR online.

Are there downsides? Sure, but I’m not going to let my want of perfection turn me away from more of what I loved about the first game in an improved package.

Anyway, great post - hope to see you on the leaderboards one day.
 
Thanks @Rodger Davies for the great post and intellegent rebuttal. I know you from the Codies forums (I used to be LudwigVonMises but am now having some problems with my account, and Codies is trying to resolve 👍).

I WILL buy DR2.0. But it's a question of when. I love all sim and sim-lite driving games. But my D4 pre-order left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's not just Codies. I haven't pre-ordered anything since D4.

I love DiRT Rally and my recent acquisition of PSVR has breathed new life into the game. I own everything on PS... DiRT 1,2,3,4, the Grids, DR, Assetto Corsa, GT Sport, Project CARS 1&2, Sébastien Loeb Rally EVO, Gravel, WRC 5,6,7, BAJA, Dakar 18, Driveclub and Driveclub VR, V-Rally 4, Ferrari challenge, Superstars V8. Not to mention that I began simming with NASCAR and GP Legends in the '90s.

DR2.0 got some great news today: Oculus support coming and evidently DLC1 is pure rally. Which means I can skip DLC2 if it's only RX. Nice to have that choice.

I'm just not ready to jump into DR2.0 at this price. But for sure I'll be there somewhere in the leaderboards soon.

Cheers!
 
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MarcoM
This Clio will not be in DR2, but to up the spirits here I just leave this:
It was featured in one of the WRC games by Evolution on the ps2.
Click to expand...
WRC4, the one people liked the most. I preferred WRC3 with the controller. So much fun.


kikie
:ouch:

Do I need to be worried?

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-expectations-behind-dirt-rally-2-0.161327/
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Good to see race department on the skepticism every CM tittle deserves. At least RD guys know through experience that you have to keep your cool and expectations tight when It comes to these CM guys.

The line that reads..

"A continuous stream of content, even if just one minute long at times, sponsoring the new game. This is a matter of concern to me. The first Dirt Rally came out unexpectedly. One day, it was there, without anyone really knowing it was going to, and leaving everyone speechless. It was not perfect, but it was an amazing and well-received"

...particularly demonstrates that he knows what he's talking about, as this is the same feelings soooo many have about dr2.

Pfei
I WILL buy DR2.0. But it's a question of when.
Click to expand...
Same story here. No way I'm tossing my money on CM until I have tried this game thoroughly.
 
fernandito
WRC4, the one people liked the most. I preferred WRC3 with the controller. So much fun.
Click to expand...

Both were amazing but WRC3 definitely felt like it had the edge, loads of stages as well really helped. Brilliant game, still have my copy somewhere which I still fire up from time to time.
 
I never considered the WRC franchise to be a worthy sim but it seems that I was wrong.
 
MagpieRacer
Both were amazing but WRC3 definitely felt like it had the edge, loads of stages as well really helped. Brilliant game, still have my copy somewhere which I still fire up from time to time.
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WRC4 was liked mostly by the very few people with a ps2 wheel back in those days. Certainly, handling wise WRC4 was the better game as long as you played it on that wheel and of course on manual, given wrc3 handling was still very arcade and somewhat basic but imo much more thrilling and fun for the day too. And omg the sound of the cars, specially the Focus. Game was soooo good. Also, and as you pointed out too, the stage variety that was still the norm (not anymoe sadly) by those tittles was still remarkable. The Turkish Rally in particular was so awesome, and of course Australia too.

One dream rally game by then to me was the combination of WRC2 stages and weather with the handling of WRC3. WRC2 was imo the best actually, but the handling had some serious issues that ruined cool the experience of cutting through those long realistic stages. Hence WRC3 was the crowning tittle to me.

kikie
I never considered the WRC franchise to be a worthy sim but it seems that I was wrong.
Click to expand...
I meant the old WRC games for the ps2. Those from the awesome and so so talented UK based Evolution Studios, that $ony decided in one of their most infamous decisions ever to dismantle, all of that it just to keep feeding the Yamauchi Dinosaur and his ambitions. Damn you sony, serioulsy.
 
Rodger Davies
Hey man, what a great post. I'm completely on the other side of the fence to you but with all the childish bashing in this thread it's nice to see a really well thought out post like this.

I'm looking at it a different way. I agree that Codemasters could have taken bigger steps and sometimes it seems like you're trying to work out whether they've moved further backwards or forwards. That said, DR1 is possibly my favourite game in recent memory. I only paid £20 for it too, so this one is 2.5x more expensive. However, I'm still really looking forward to it. If I may...


  • Thin on content again. Only six rally locations with 25-30km each (Argentina only has 16km).
Agreed, this is my biggest disappointment. Especially Argentina. Looks like there will be about 140km of unique stage mileage in game at launch. However, I loved the locations in DR1 and these are simply the best crafted rally locations in any game ever, a real quality over quantity approach. I prayed for more locations to be added to DR and finally they have done.

  • The stages look completely boring and uninspired. To my eyes, most of them look like they were created with Your Stage. Poland and Argentina seem to be the exception.
When they announced the locations I wasn't too impressed. USA? It was awful in D4. However, now that I've seen a stage in each, I am really looking forward to each - I wish Spain wasn't the tarmac choice but I know the real stage and it's superb. Australia looks incredibly challenging, a bit like Wales in DR1. USA, surprisingly, seems to be a forest full of hairpins and junctions, each one looking unique. When they add some upgraded DR1 locations to the list, we're going to have 9 top quality locations with all major styles covered.

  • Leagues are not available at launch.
They've said they should follow on in a matter of weeks (if not days) after launch. Their new forum seems to be tied into them so Ive no doubt.

  • Possible witholding content behind a paywall. Gr. B RWD for example. They were in DR and D4. They will be here, but this time they will likely charge us for them.
This doesn't bother me. They're upgrading the physics and adding new cars to the class; it doesn't bother me paying a little extra for this work.

  • "More of the same" car list that lost lots of good cars.
The car list is a similar length and it lost good cars - that feels a little contradictory to me. The DS, 240Z, Golf, Polo, Fabia, C3, 208 R2, Camaro, Mustang, Aston, 911, S1 RX, Megane RX, Impreza RX, Fiesta MkVIII are all new and the Audi S1 E2 and Mitsubishi Evo VI are new to DR. The Escort MkII and Polo RX are new models. That's a huge percentage of new cars to play with and that's before the DLC which will likely have the Group B Porsche included.

  • We will likely see remastered DR stages in the paid DLC.
To me that's a consumer friendly approach. They could have done it the other way around and included them in the base game and kept three new venues for the DLC but this makes the old stages a choice and everyone gets the new ones on day one. The old stages will have new textures, new foliage models, new spectator models, new weather effects, surface degredation and updated AI. We're likely to get three of those in one pack for the price of a pizza. Bring it on!

  • No VR support.
Already fixed for Oculus and it's obvious they're in discussion with the other manufacturers. I hope you get the PSVR option.

  • Your Stage dropped (it's a wonderful idea - just needs more development and variety).
It is, but they clearly know it's not ready. There was an interview with Paul Coleman talking about the D4 locations needing three times the work of DR1 ones; for now give me more of the great handcrafted stages until the tech is better.

  • Paid DLC locations will split the PvP and league userbase.
Let's see how these will be implemented.



So my summary - I loved DR. I disliked D4. But this feels like a proper sequel. Within the next three months, I’ll have a game with the 9 best crafted rally locations in gaming and 200km of stage, (with weather variants that weren’t in DR1) with 44 cars covering the history of rally.

The career mode looks like a step forward from DR1 (simple mode done well, rather than D4s advanced career done badly) as do the physics (cars have weight, 4WD was improved in D4 and so long as RWD is similar to DR then I’m laughing). I can also finally play DR online.

Are there downsides? Sure, but I’m not going to let my want of perfection turn me away from more of what I loved about the first game in an improved package.

Anyway, great post - hope to see you on the leaderboards one day.
Click to expand...

RWD's are not on the same level as DR, they are even better this time 👍
 
doblocruiser
Yup, WRC4 was my absolute favorite back in those days :bowdown:

BTW: funny when you think that back in the PS2 days we had 20km stages and some serious content.
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I guess that the talent was always there but with much less demanding hardware. They were fabulous games though. Along with CMR3/4/5 and RBR it was a great time for rally games.
 
MrCrynox
I've got all of the Evo WRC PS2 games but never played them! You guys are making me think I should fire them up ! What about the 5 the title, evolved I think it was called ?
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Evolved is good but it started to steer away a bit from what made 4 so great. Still a very good game. Yes, fire them up :D
 
MrCrynox
I've got all of the Evo WRC PS2 games but never played them! You guys are making me think I should fire them up ! What about the 5 the title, evolved I think it was called ?
Click to expand...

Ah rally evolved. Less stage content but much more challenging to drive. Cool random events like rockslides, crashed cars, forest fires etc. Lots of fun that game. Also finally let us drive Manfred Stohls OMV Xsara .
 
I'm looking forward to dirt rally 2.0 and I will purchase but as some of you I will hold off buying until it's cheaper.

Absolutely loved the first dirt rally, I even still play it now but I don't understand why time and resources are put into rally cross, I would prefer if rally cross was left to the numbered dirt series and then we may get a couple more.locations on DR 2.0. 6 locations is not enough!

Also not going to knock it until I played them for myself but the locations in DR2 don't seem half a interesting as the locations in DR1, hope I'm wrong!

Will defo still pick this up further down the line, loved DR1 and I'm sure I will love DR2 but this rally content is low.
 
kikie
That doesn't seem to be realistic.



Click to expand...


After seeing that 360 example I’ve decided I’m in no rush on this game. Plus I’ve already got a glut of games I don’t have enough time for. Will wait for price drop.
 
Well, tarmac physics still aren’t perfect, this is known.

I’m mainly a gravel guy though so I’ll probably pre-order. Hoping for tarmac physics improvements in due time though
 
cjr3559
After seeing that 360 example I’ve decided I’m in no rush on this game. Plus I’ve already got a glut of games I don’t have enough time for. Will wait for price drop.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something in the example?
 
It seems that the donut in the Dirt Rally 2.0 clip isn't that realistic. I could be wrong though. The example of a real car, the Subaru, shows that a car never stays on the same spot doing donuts. In DR 2.0, it seems so easy. Just turn the steering wheel, floor the gas pedal and the car does perfect circles. IRL you don't just turn the steering wheel. You still have to make corrections with the steering wheel and the car doesn't stay on the same spot doing perfect circles.

In DR 2.0, it seems that there is a vertical pole in the middle of the car and the car is spinning around that pole. IRL the car throws around the back end of the car and turns around the front wheels.

That is how I see it and that is why I think DR 2.0 physics engine is a not pure realistic and it still not a sim but simcade.
 
kikie
It seems that the donut in the Dirt Rally 2.0 clip isn't that realistic. I could be wrong though. The example of a real car, the Subaru, shows that a car never stays on the same spot doing donuts. In DR 2.0, it seems so easy. Just turn the steering wheel, floor the gas pedal and the car does perfect circles. IRL you don't just turn the steering wheel. You still have to make corrections with the steering wheel and the car doesn't stay on the same spot doing perfect circles.

In DR 2.0, it seems that there is a vertical pole in the middle of the car and the car is spinning around that pole. IRL the car throws around the back end of the car and turns around the front wheels.

That is how I see it and that is why I think DR 2.0 physics engine is a not pure realistic and it still not a sim but simcade.
Click to expand...

I can see the perspective. While the Impreza doesn't stay on the same spot he is the doing much correction either? Bit like old Ken Block with his spin dryer..



Time will tell, if it continues what Dirt Rally started then it already isn't simcade. The Rallycross is the segment that actually has the best Tyre modelling direct from Avon with RX data. Not sure on the spot donuts is the best example of it but I see what your saying.

Edit: curiously Dirt Rally 1 yields different results, the car seems to surge forwards between spins.
 
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MagpieRacer
Click to expand...
I've watched the entire clip and it is obvious that there is a difference between how the car in DR 2.0 spins around and how the Impreza spins.
The car in DR 2.0 pivots around a central point in the middle of the car and the Impreza (in real life) pivots around a central point in front of the car in the middle between the front end wheels.

The fact that the car pivots around a central point in DR 2.0 tell me that the physics engine is probably not correct.
 
Oh yeah I'm well aware of how it looks. Just levying the effort side of.

It looks like that in DR1 but sure as hell doesn't feel like it so I'll remain optimistic and happy :D
 
MagpieRacer
I can see the perspective. While the Impreza doesn't stay on the same spot he is the doing much correction either? Bit like old Ken Block with his spin dryer..



Time will tell, if it continues what Dirt Rally started then it already isn't simcade. The Rallycross is the segment that actually has the best Tyre modelling direct from Avon with RX data. Not sure on the spot donuts is the best example of it but I see what your saying.

Edit: curiously Dirt Rally 1 yields different results, the car seems to surge forwards between spins.
Click to expand...


The RX cars in DR1 behaved very oddly when trying to do donuts.
 

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