DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

[Scaff]

It seems that the donut in the Dirt Rally 2.0 clip isn't that realistic. I could be wrong though. The example of a real car, the Subaru, shows that a car never stays on the same spot doing donuts. In DR 2.0, it seems so easy. Just turn the steering wheel, floor the gas pedal and the car does perfect circles. IRL you don't just turn the steering wheel. You still have to make corrections with the steering wheel and the car doesn't stay on the same spot doing perfect circles.

In DR 2.0, it seems that there is a vertical pole in the middle of the car and the car is spinning around that pole. IRL the car throws around the back end of the car and turns around the front wheels.

That is how I see it and that is why I think DR 2.0 physics engine is a not pure realistic and it still not a sim but simcade.

I've watched the entire clip and it is obvious that there is a difference between how the car in DR 2.0 spins around and how the Impreza spins.
The car in DR 2.0 pivots around a central point in the middle of the car and the Impreza (in real life) pivots around a central point in front of the car in the middle between the front end wheels.

The fact that the car pivots around a central point in DR 2.0 tell me that the physics engine is probably not correct.

More accurately the RL car is rotating around the yaw point on one of the front tyres, not a point between the front wheels (that would still be wrong in terms of physics modeling).

With the DR 2.0 footage, the camera being rotated around as well makes it really hard to see exactly what is happening, but it does look off.

Its all a bit mad given that Enthusia got it right back on the PS2!

 

[bogani]

More accurately the RL car is rotating around the yaw point on one of the front tyres, not a point between the front wheels (that would still be wrong in terms of physics modeling).

With the DR 2.0 footage, the camera being rotated around as well makes it really hard to see exactly what is happening, but it does look off.

Its all a bit mad given that Enthusia got it right back on the PS2!

Enthusia is such an overlooked game! Such a gem.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm ready to add 2.0 to my collection.

 

[kikie]

More accurately the RL car is rotating around the yaw point on one of the front tyres, not a point between the front wheels (that would still be wrong in terms of physics modeling).

Visualising in my mind (yes I can do that) what you said, looks realistic. Visualising what I said looks wrong and doesn't seem to be possible in real life.

With the DR 2.0 footage, the camera rotating around as well makes it really hard to see exactly what is happening, but it does look off.

I have been thinking about the rotating camera as well but it is very clear that the car pivots around a central point in de middle of a car. And there are no steering wheel corrections, which looks strange as well.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Visualising in my mind (yes I can do that) what you said, looks realistic. Visualising what I said looks wrong and doesn't seem to be possible in real life.

I have been thinking about the rotating camera as well but it is very clear that the car pivots around a central point in de middle of a car. And there are no steering wheel corrections, which looks strange as well.

The steering part is the point I was trying to highlight earlier. Both the Subaru you posted and the Ken block spinning section, there is little to no correction. It's all power induced, turn and boot it.

Again not saying it doesn't look odd but it's far from impossible to do it without much correction on the wheel.

 

[Scaff]

Visualising in my mind (yes I can do that) what you said, looks realistic. Visualising what I said looks wrong and doesn't seem to be possible in real life.

I have been thinking about the rotating camera as well but it is very clear that the car pivots around a central point in de middle of a car. And there are no steering wheel corrections, which looks strange as well.

Having done a few donuts, you don't actually need a great deal (if any) steering input once you have got the donut going, most of the control needed is via your right foot.

 

[kikie]

Does this mean (the way the car spins in DR 2.0) that the physics engine is still flawed? Or is it possible that the rest of the physics is rather realistic?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Does this mean (the way the car spins in DR 2.0) that the physics engine is still flawed? Or is it possible that the rest of the physics is rather realistic?

Until we get our hands on it we don't know. As I said earlier, if it takes what dirt rally did and builds on it (as it sounds like they have) then it will be a very good and realistic experience.

 

[kikie]

Until we get our hands on it we don't know. As I said earlier, if it takes what dirt rally did and builds on it (as it sounds like they have) then it will be a very good and realistic experience.

Dirt 4 was an improvement over Dirt Rally according to Codematers. Rallycross in Dirt 4 was is almost it should be, so Dirt Rally 2.0 should be even better according to this reasoning.

Third time that I post this youtube clip

 

[Rodger Davies]

@kikie great clip, thanks for posting. Seems they did take that on board, hired someone full time (no small expense) to work on that aspect.

4WD and FWD were improved in D4 IMO, but RWD suffered a lot. The lack of challenge in the states didn't help either. Looking forward to continued improvements back in the challenging setting.

 

[Wolfe]

If Codemasters insists Dirt 4 was built from Dirt Rally, I'll take their word for it insofar as Dirt Rally probably behaved much like all their other games and therefore wouldn't be what I expect from a simulator.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Dirt 4 was an improvement over Dirt Rally according to Codematers. Rallycross in Dirt 4 was is almost it should be, so Dirt Rally 2.0 should be even better according to this reasoning.

Third time that I post this youtube clip

👍 . It's a great clip. It has definitely done the rounds. Personally I haven't really been looking at it versus Dirt 4 as it tried to cater for a different market so it's difficult to compare them. Roll on the 22nd.

 

[MarcoM]

Dirt rally 2.0, my body is ready for you

 

[fernandito]

For hardcore rally fans viewing pleasure

 

[MarcoM]

^^ In some places it's just plain stupid where those crowds are standing.

Lovely footage though!!!

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

For hardcore rally fans viewing pleasure

It wouldn't be a rallying compilation without Gigi Galli, that hairpin in the Mitsubishi is legendary.

^^ In some places it's just plain stupid where those crowds are standing.

The crowds in Portugal are most crazy look at this onboard with McRae/Grist:

 

[MagpieRacer]

So tomorrow marks the announcement of the first season of DLC. Little is known other than it will be all rally based content. Expected to be 3 locations and 5 (although some believe 6) cars. Will be interesting to see what comes. Wouldn't be surprised is we see Group B RWD and 3 F2 kit cars.

Location wise, one can only hope we get Galway international rally which is where Codemasters and Dirt team have been supporting John Armstrong's entry and first rally in over a year. Here's some Craig Been footage.



But I won't get my hopes up. I think we will get Sweden, Wales and Germany with 1 uprated stage from DR1 and a brand new route for each.

 

[cjr3559]

Am I missing something in the example?

There were some good explanations posted, but the video isn’t the only reason to wait on this game for me. Not only am I too busy with other games, but almost every time I get excited and preorder a game I’m usually underwhelmed. I can wait until summer or fall when WRC8 comes out and get them together. Maybe by then it’ll drop 10 bucks. Who knows. And I don’t really need the preorder bonus cars.

While I got DR 1.0 after it had been around for a couple years and really enjoyed it, it didn’t take long to memorize the stages and found them to get kind of stale. And just trying them again with faster cars didn’t get me all that excited. Even with the new cars, stages, and features, DR2 gameplay seems to be a repeat.

I got PC2 a couple months after release and basically didn’t touch it much until recently and I really like it. Again, I could have just waited and got it at half the price.

Plus, it will be good to watch others delve into DR 2.0 so I can see what career mode is really like.

 

[Pfei]

There were some good explanations posted, but the video isn’t the only reason to wait on this game for me. Not only am I too busy with other games, but almost every time I get excited and preorder a game I’m usually underwhelmed. I can wait until summer or fall when WRC8 comes out and get them together. Maybe by then it’ll drop 10 bucks. Who knows. And I don’t really need the preorder bonus cars.

While I got DR 1.0 after it had been around for a couple years and really enjoyed it, it didn’t take long to memorize the stages and found them to get kind of stale. And just trying them again with faster cars didn’t get me all that excited. Even with the new cars, stages, and features, DR2 gameplay seems to be a repeat.

I got PC2 a couple months after release and basically didn’t touch it much until recently and I really like it. Again, I could have just waited and got it at half the price.

Plus, it will be good to watch others delve into DR 2.0 so I can see what career mode is really like.

I got PC2 Day One edition from Amazon two months after release for $24. Ditto on PC1 GOTY a year after the base release. I played the hell out of PC1 but PC2 I've barely touched.

Got Driveclub free from PS Plus
.
I pre-ordered DR1 and do not regret it one bit. You're correct in that it is very lacking in stage quantity, but what's there is excellent. The physics are weird (paperweight cars and arcade-like powerslides) but the whole package is so intense and immersive that between getting the platinum and twelve league seasons with my buddies I put hundreds of hours into it. And now with PSVR I'm playing it more than ever again.

I bought SLRE full price and that's my favorite rally game. Best bang for your buck if you don't mind the graphics and sounds. 500km of stages, awesome car list, great physics (but you already knew that
).

I got GT Sport two months after release after skipping GT6. I was intrigued by the multiplayer and I wasn't let down. Total addiction to racing online.

I got F1 2017 at half price and got some enjoyment out of it, but it didn't last long. I love F1 but I'm not a big open wheel fan in sims, and it felt more game than sim.

V-Rally 4, well, it's got some good points but I'm glad I got it half off.

Assetto Corsa, obviously I pre-ordered that. It's AC, can't go wrong with that driving experience.

D4 pre-order left me feeling scammed.

Picked up Driveclub VR for $15 and am loving it. The only racer on PSVR with more than one opponent on the grid . Well, DR has RX online but after playing RX in PC2 I can't go back to it in the DiRTs.

I expect the usual improvements in WRC 8 that we have seen from Kylotonn since they got the license. But I will wait to see if they can do 60fps on console. V-Rally at 30fps is very jarring. Worse than WRC7. I liked 7 a lot but they really have to smoothen out the experience on console.

I am with you regarding DR2.0. Not enough to pique my interest right now. DLC1 being all rally sounds good, but I might wait for PSVR support or a sale before I buy it. Depends on how long it takes for CM to add leagues. Out of the twenty-odd DR fans in our WhatsApp group only three have pre ordered DR2.0. That goes to show you how damaging the D4 fiasco was.

Not to mention, like you, I am overwhelmed with games. Just Dakar 18 alone could take up all my gaming time if I wanted it to.

Now I have started Resident Evil 7 in VR. Wow, what an experience that is. VR has brought me back to traditional, non-car gaming, so games like DR2.0 have even more competition than before in my home. If PSVR support appeared I would buy it in a heartbeat, and would even be happy to pay extra for it like I did the VR DLC for Dirt Rally.

The silver lining in all this is that it's a lucky time to be a console racer. Never before have we had so many sims to choose from. I spent all my time on PS3 with Superstars V8 and Ferrari Challenge. There weren't really many sims to play and by that time the GT car collecting had gotten boring for me.

Plus I have ten years of free PS Plus games, most of which I never even downloaded.

So yeah, no need to jump into anything at the moment, be it DR2.0 or Ace Combat 7.

It's a good time to be a 45-year-old gamer 👍

 

[MrCrynox]

@cjr3559 @Pfei I'm in exactly the same boat, even when restricted to racing games there is simply too much stuff to play with too little time due to work and family. And to make it worse I also have an Xbox so add the Forza games to the mix.

I'm not complaining either though, it is indeed a good time to be a gamer This generation has been kind to us and we are spoilt for choice, which gives us flexibility when to buy due to the ever growing queue

It's obvious to me that I won't be needing a next gen console for a long time

 

[kikie]

Knowing that according to Codemasters, the Rallycross has realistic car behaviour I wouldn't be surprised if CM will announce a dedicated Rallycross game.

 

[MarcoM]

While I got DR 1.0 after it had been around for a couple years and really enjoyed it, it didn’t take long to memorize the stages and found them to get kind of stale. And just trying them again with faster cars didn’t get me all that excited. Even with the new cars, stages, and features, DR2 gameplay seems to be a repeat.

That is the purpose of rally and race games: memorize the tracks and shave off seconds.

 

[Racetee]

That is the purpose of rally and race games: memorize the tracks and shave off seconds.

That's not the purpose of rally. Why do you think there are even pacenotes then?

 

[Scaff]

That is the purpose of rally and race games: memorize the tracks and shave off seconds.

Track based stuff I would agree on, stage based rally however isn't.

In reality reccie's get carried out at limited speeds and the only full speed runs are when the stages are run in anger. Organisers will also change stages, layouts, etc on a regular basis to make it harder to 100% reuse pace notes from past years.

Its why a good stage generator is the holy grail of rally titles (and despite its other shortcomings V-Rally 4 has done best on this front to date).

 

[kikie]

That is why I love Rallycross. Closed circuit, directly competing with each other, knowing the circuits by heart, not having to listen to pace notes ...............

 

[bogani]

Thing is, if a stage generator means what we had in D4, no thanks. I'd take bespoke stages with heart and soul every day. It needs to be much better than that.

 

[MagpieRacer]

That's not the purpose of rally. Why do you think there are even pacenotes then?

It's a 50/50 argument. There's no right or wrong way. I understand the argument for stage generators and dirt 4 did a reasonable job with it. However, year on year, the most famous rally routes don't really change that much. Obviously new stages can appear and old ones disappear, minor adjustments to routes etc, but the Turini, Myherin, panzerplatte, Ouninpohja (until last year) and many more remain the same.

A good balance would be having your stage from Dirt 4 alongside 1 real stage. Keep the variety but also keep what makes the rally famous. Wales isn't Wales without Sweet Lamb, Monte isn't Monte without the Col du Turini and Argentina isn't Argentina without el Condor. Doesn't mean we can't have both.

Be like a good album, couple of big hits and some decent filler.

 

[Rodger Davies]

@MagpieRacer whilst that's the case, there's a big difference between pros who run the stage twice per year (often in the middle of a 200-400km event) and in game where doing a 200km event means running each stage 10 times.

That said, I memorised the stages in CMR1 and RBR quickly enough, so there's no real way to make this anything like real ATM, bearing in mind Your Stage just didn't work out. I'd rather have the excellent handcrafted stages with that downside for now.

DLC1 will take us to 9 locations, each with ~20-30km of stags, so that's a good start - doesn't bother me if they're upgraded DR1 locations - hopefully more stages and/or locations will be added in future.

Be like a good album, couple of big hits and some decent filler.

Lol, I like that approach - but at the moment, we definitely have the hits but not the filler!

 

[MagpieRacer]

@Rodger Davies you make a good point. What would you think to combing a few handcrafted stages with your stage?

 

[Scaff]

Thing is, if a stage generator means what we had in D4, no thanks. I'd take bespoke stages with heart and soul every day. It needs to be much better than that.

I would agree, which is why the approach V-Rally 4 took was much better.

In that each location had a massive grid of road and/or dirt track networks and the random part basically mixes and matches these, closing off roads with proper barriers, etc. The end result was a massive amount of variety, which looks much closer to how rally stages are actually created in reality and gives a great combination of 'I know this bit', followed by 'oh ****, I don't know this bit'.

This is how it works:


And this is what the end results can be (16 - 17k stages are quite possible)