DLC a knee jerk reaction to forza 4?

[peterjford]

Spec 2 release on the day of Forza's release was a pure coincidence of 365/1. Nothing more.

Since releases happen on Tuesdays, its more like 52.14/1, but I don't think it was that much of a coincidence.

I don't think DLC is a reaction to Forza in any way. I feel plenty of DLC was planned, got delayed for various reason, not only the earthquake, but also programming patches and updates.

Though I will say this. While I think 2.0 was planned regardless of Forza, I do think Sony sort of "pulled rank" and specifically decided to release 2.0 when Forza released. And in term s of the DLC, that probably couldn't be implemented until 2.0. That's a business move on Sony's end, and not really a bad one, though a bit petty. Reminds me of Dana White counter-programming other MMA org events with UFC events on TV.
But I honestly doubt Yamauchi-San even knew when Forza 4 was releasing. He doesn't come off as the kind of developer who would even pay attention to anything his competition is doing. If Forza didn't even exist I think we would have gotten the same exact things added to GT5, just 2.0 and the DLC may have come a couple months sooner.

That's my take on it.

I agree. I think that on PD's part, spec 2.0 on DLC probably go delayed due to the earthquake, etc, but the ultimate release date was probably decided by Sony. I don't think its any kind of knee jerk reaction, actually quite the opposite. It was a carefully thought out business decision. If it wasn't delayed for the Forza 4 release I doubt we would have gotten it much sooner anyway. Without any influence from Sony I would have expected it on or before the 1 year anniversary of the release of GT5, so maybe Sony actually sped up the release.

 

[vandaliser]

I think spec 2.0 was an attempt by sony to deflate forza. Kinda what MS did when Gt5 was launched. A little pay back of sorts. The Japanese never forget and forza 4 bombed as per usual. Just like it's other 3 predecessors

 

[HAL20XX]

The Japanese never forget and forza 4 bombed as per usual. Just like it's other 3 predecessors

Uh... what?

For starters, I believe it's elephants that never forget. Obviously you would have known the correct saying had you been an elephant. Since so few of us are, I can hardly fault you for forgetting.

Second, there's something just a "hair" off about your facts. Something to do with 3 predecessors and bombed in the same sentence. I can't quite figure it out. DON'T TELL ME! It has something to do with... seeing how much money... Microsoft... can... lose...?

Nailed it.

 

[LarryL]

You can't really call Forza a "flop" in general. I'm sure it makes plenty of money selling 750k-1million units per title. Now this is my opinion because I'm a fan of real simulations, but I don't feel Forza's production values are SUPER high (meaning how much it costs to make), so that makes it even LESS of a flop. Profit is what determines if something is a flop, not your or my opinion of a game.

But if you go in expecting Forza to sell like Gran Turismo, then yeah, you could call it a flop. But really......aside from a handfull of GIANTS in the industry like the Call of Doodies, the GTAs, the WoWs and maybe the FFs you could consider almost ANYTHING a flop compared to Gran Turismo when you're talking units moved.

It's not many games that you can invest 60 MILLION fricken DOLLARS into and make that money back just by releasing a paid demo of sorts (GT5P)!!!! nevermind the actual game release itself which cost more to buy and sold more than the prologue. And what was it?......about A MILLION people who bought that $13 DLC? Think about that. That's the power of 1 Gran Turismo game. And that's even on a console that you can't really call the darling of the gaming media, eh?

 

[t.o.]

I think they ARE thinking about GT6. And I think every car that gets added to GT5 through DLC is made so that it can just be "dagged and dropped" into GT6. BUT you and I have to ASSume that they've (PD and Sony) already decided that GT6 is going to be a PS4 game, not PS3. So, that being the case, wouldn't you like GT5 to be continually expanded at least until PS4 comes out.

If you and I love GT5 (I know I do, I don't know about you), doesn't it make more sense for us as consumers to spend little amounts of money here and there to expand the game we already know we love as opposed to spending $60 on a whole new game that may not even be as good? A game that's going to have to start all the way back at the beginning with patches and fixes?

Personally, I'd much rather put $30 or more into GT5 through DLC over the next year than buy any new sim-style racing game. For me I don't even know why they release any new racing games at all this gen since GT5. Not sim-style anyway. They've got no chance to get my money now. Maybe next gen.......as long as they release it before GT6 that is LOL.

From your point of view that makes sense. It's a valid point of view too. If you're not looking to try other games. From my point of view though it doesn't. To me GT5 is a write-off. It won't be getting very much time of day in my play schedule. So the way I look at it is I'm already playing another game so I'd rather they just give up this go around and put their full concentration into GT6.

After GT5 debacle many people are going to be putting GT6 in a show-and-prove category, myself included. I'm only wishing it'll be the product I thought GT5 was going to be.

The Japanese never forget and forza 4 bombed as per usual. Just like it's other 3 predecessors

Bombed? Are you serious? Lord have mercy what people think they know. FM4 "bombed" so good the LCE's sold out before they even hit the shelves. I don't think I ever saw a game's Limited Edition fly so fast that even Best Buy, Gamestop and other B&M stores pulled the item from the websites so there would be NO chance of someone accidentally ordering it. Man I wish I could invent something that can bomb like this. I'd be the happiest, very rich, bomber who ever bombed a bomb.

Other areas in life I wish I "bomb":
On my deathbed I hope those gathered around me say "Man he sure bombed at life"
When making love with a women for now I want to hear "Damn , you sure bombed baby. Don't go, I want you to bomb again"
After spending a week in Vegas "BABY DID WE BOMB THIS WEEK OR WHAT!!!"
Playing Lotto and reading my ticket numbers while listening to them draw them at the same time "BABY WE'RE BOMBING, WE'RE BOMBING"

 

[GTShadowKing]

It's a swift response to something or a quick reaction.
PD can never be accused of that.

Spec 2 release on the day of Forza's release was a pure coincidence of 365/1. Nothing more.

So turtle jerk reaction is more apropriate I guess...

 

[t.o.]

This game NEEDS a livery editor. I don't think it's going to be an easy task for them to pull off either. I'm sorry but a bunch of plain cars running around a track is just not appealing for replays. Let's be honest, these guys don't "do up" their race cars in real life for nothing. It's part of the sport as much as uniforms are part of major sports. Check this vid, EVERY livery you see was homemade by either me or a member of the group I race with. THIS is what a race is supposed to look like.

 

[E28]

More like a knee jerk reaction to the increasing demand for it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think spec 2.0 was an attempt by sony to deflate forza. Kinda what MS did when Gt5 was launched. A little pay back of sorts. The Japanese never forget and forza 4 bombed as per usual. Just like it's other 3 predecessors

I doubt many people were swayed from purchasing an entire game over a handful of DLC Touring Cars and two tracks (as great as Spa is). Many people have made their minds up about which games they'd prefer to play. People like you, who haven't even touched one of the others, but speak about them as if they know anything at all about playing them.

In relation to GT5, perhaps Forza hasn't shone as well, sales-wise (although I really hope this isn't going to lead to some lunacy about how sales numbers = a better game). But FM3 has sold a hair under 5 million units, and FM4 is up to 1.5 million after two months. That's hardly "bomb" appropriate numbers.

...

Again, on-topic, DLC seems to be far more of a reaction to us, the outspoken GT communities, than any competition. PD is fairly knew to the more interconnected, social media-enabled landscape than companies like T10, so it looks like they're having a bit of a time adjusting to it. But it can only improve over time - T10 has an unprecedented (in this genre) rapport between themselves and their communities, and I for one would love to see PD echo that, with things like Game With Devs, or DLC packs chosen based on community polls.

 

[t.o.]

I doubt many people were swayed from purchasing an entire game over a handful of DLC Touring Cars and two tracks (as great as Spa is). Many people have made their minds up about which games they'd prefer to play. People like you, who haven't even touched one of the others, but speak about them as if they know anything at all about playing them.

In relation to GT5, perhaps Forza hasn't shone as well, sales-wise (although I really hope this isn't going to lead to some lunacy about how sales numbers = a better game). But FM3 has sold a hair under 5 million units, and FM4 is up to 1.5 million after two months. That's hardly "bomb" appropriate numbers.

...

Again, on-topic, DLC seems to be far more of a reaction to us, the outspoken GT communities, than any competition. PD is fairly knew to the more interconnected, social media-enabled landscape than companies like T10, so it looks like they're having a bit of a time adjusting to it. But it can only improve over time - T10 has an unprecedented (in this genre) rapport between themselves and their communities, and I for one would love to see PD echo that, with things like Game With Devs, or DLC packs chosen based on community polls.

A-FREAKIN-MEN on all points. Great reply. One day we may have two equally outstanding racing games on both consoles but until that point it's up to the community to light the fire under both dev houses when appropriate. Love making to an unfinished product helps NOBODY.

 

[phil_75]

Hi folks I love GT5 but im starting to think the dlc is a knee jerk to forza 4 . According to PD they can have content every 2 months , yeah they may well do but what will it be down to in the end 1 car and a helmet , as they funnel more resources into gt6 . The first dlc was cool and people are expecting that amount every time now . Why dont they just say were just going to concentrate on gt6 so we can get it as best as we can for the ps4 release ? And to be honest the cars in the new pack are dull , love the gtr but id rather have the gt1 version it seems to me all the cars people want hsv10 ,aventador etc etc wont appear only to be saved for gt6 . Anyhow the updates are excellent and obviously they are beta testing for gt6 so they can get it spot on so PD keep up the good work .

They have approx PS4 specs already, when they see what graphics and performance that will pull off their interest in GT5 will wane!

 

[phil_75]

This game NEEDS a livery editor. I don't think it's going to be an easy task for them to pull off either. I'm sorry but a bunch of plain cars running around a track is just not appealing for replays. Let's be honest, these guys don't "do up" their race cars in real life for nothing. It's part of the sport as much as uniforms are part of major sports. Check this vid, EVERY livery you see was homemade by either me or a member of the group I race with. THIS is what a race is supposed to look like.

WOW Impressed!

The replays look so much more "real" than GT5's, captures the BTCC/WTCC perfectly!

When I played Forza4 - NSX on the ring - I wasn't impressed, maybe I need to dig deeper!

But if I played Forza4 I would get the same feeling as if I was cheating on my wife!

 

[AnPrionsaBeag]

Great vid!

 

[Tenacious D]

This game NEEDS a livery editor. I don't think it's going to be an easy task for them to pull off either. I'm sorry but a bunch of plain cars running around a track is just not appealing for replays.

(YouTube snip)

AS appealing. Obviously, I beg to differ.

While that YouTube of yours is great looking, and your fellow racers' rides outstanding, I have to say that Forza's replays are almost as boring as those of my PC sims, which are truly boring. Still, I wish that the GT5 production team would break out of that Best Motoring style replay rut they're in.

Now to the real point of your post, yes, having a game with a thousand cars in it but limited body kits and no Livery Editor is truly exasperating. If I got along with Forza 4 well, I'd most likely be spending two to four times as much in it as I would in GT5. Mostly creating and painting up cars, but oh well. In fact, the guys here were astonished that I raced so little online in Forza 3 because I spent so much time doing my "race mods" that I didn't know any of the tracks.

Will we get a Livery Editor any time soon? One in GT6? I don't know for sure, but it can't be that hard to do if most other racers have some sort of paint shop with decals and vinyls. Even ModNation Racers has one. Kaz knows we want one, so as with all things GT, we'll see. Merry Christmas from across the Great Divide.

 

[Sach]

How good can you possibly make the liveries though without being able to import graphics?

 

[Spagetti69]

How good can you possibly make the liveries though without being able to import graphics?

Depends on your talent mate.

 

[Sach]

True...

 

[t.o.]

WOW Impressed!

The replays look so much more "real" than GT5's, captures the BTCC/WTCC perfectly!

When I played Forza4 - NSX on the ring - I wasn't impressed, maybe I need to dig deeper!

But if I played Forza4 I would get the same feeling as if I was cheating on my wife!

Thanks phil. Some of the liveries are dead on to the real thing, some are close/loose interpretations and others just liveries to, as you put it well, capture the BTCC/WTCC essence.

Great vid!

Thanks

How good can you possibly make the liveries though without being able to import graphics?

I've seen guys create photo-realistic photos of people with the editor. I don't know how one guy did it but he had a black and white picture of some actress back in the 50's or so and I swear he had to cheat and upload that thing somehow but since we know that's impossible you just have to tip your hat at the talent of some of these guys.

It is quite possible to make dead-on accurate liveries. Just a matter of the amount of time and attention to detail one wants to put into it.

 

[Sach]

That would be pretty epic then, IF people are allowed to share liveries. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.

 

[t.o.]

That would be pretty epic then, IF people are allowed to share liveries. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.

Just me and one other guy (and his wife) made all those liveries. We then spread them out amongst the drivers. Normally we let a person make their own but for this series I really wanted to control the look of the racecars to make sure they're all something you would see in a BTCC/WTCC race so this time around we created all the liveries and gave them out. We , of course, personalized them with each drivers name and number and some we just did a color change on the liveries. But , YES you are allowed to share, sell, give away liveries like this one I created a while ago

This one is a loose interpretation, can you guess the original?

 

[E28]

That would be pretty epic then, IF people are allowed to share liveries. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.

You can buy and sell liveries online via the 'Storefront' system. This allows you to make money out of your own liveries and spend money on others. You'll also see uniquely painted cars selling on the auction house for massive amounts of money.

 

[Sach]

Nice. Are those from Forza? I've never played, or even seen that game played. Not joking.

 

[t.o.]

Nice. Are those from Forza? I've never played, or even seen that game played. Not joking.

Yes, all Forza. Barring financial reasons of course, I never understand the one system mentality. Well I wont say that. What I don't understand is the one system mentality and then to nerve to comment on the other without having put ANY time in on it. Not talking about you Sach but you know the type. I suggest you give the game a shot. And not "one race now I'm an expert" shot but like I did with GT5. Buy it, play it, give it months and explore it and THEN form an opinion.

 

[Sach]

I play F1 2011 on the PC, GT5 and F1 CE on the PS3. That's literally all I have the time for. I forced myself not to get MW3 or BF3. Nothing against the 360 at all, I just don't have the time.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

...
I've seen guys create photo-realistic photos of people with the editor. I don't know how one guy did it but he had a black and white picture of some actress back in the 50's or so and I swear he had to cheat and upload that thing somehow but since we know that's impossible you just have to tip your hat at the talent of some of these guys.
...

Ok, how is this done if graphics cannot be imported... the photo realisted insert???? I am amazed at the creativity and talent of the community artists

 

[Vaxxtx]

Nice. Are those from Forza? I've never played, or even seen that game played. Not joking.

I play F1 2011 on the PC, GT5 and F1 CE on the PS3. That's literally all I have the time for. I forced myself not to get MW3 or BF3. Nothing against the 360 at all, I just don't have the time.

Really need to check out FM4 if you like those games. I wish I had more time with F1 2011, but FM4 came out right after, so I didnt get to dig deep in it...yet. Time is hard to split across games if you have a busy RL sometimes.

But as a Fuzzy said a while back...good to have too many good racing games, then not enough. If you have all 3 medias (PC,PS3,Xbox), you are in quality racing game heaven, but also need 30 hour days to get some time into all of them lol.

Back on topic. If people think PD didnt release spec 2 and the newly added DLC's in a response to T10, I think you are fooling yourselves. I am glad they did. It makes both companies work hard, and I have high hopes PD takes cues, and tries to compete with FM4 in areas FM4 had done well.

 

[Imari]

Ok, how is this done if graphics cannot be imported... the photo realisted insert???? I am amazed at the creativity and talent of the community artists

If it can be done, someone will do it, regardless of how long it might take them. It's seriously impressive.

 

[t.o.]

I can't believe nobody guessed yet what the original was that I made my loose interpretation from. Guess nobody cared
Well here it is.....

This one is a loose interpretation, can you guess the original?

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Maybe loose as you would call it but very well done!

 

[t.o.]

Maybe loose as you would call it but very well done!

Thank you Fuzzy.