DLC a knee jerk reaction to forza 4?

[xxDingerxx]

Isn't PD a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony. If so then PD are sitting on nothing as all profits goto Sony.

The only kind of wealth at PD is the individuals within the developer, through salaries and bonuses (which are tied into sales). The only money PD has is what Sony gives them.

This is pointless anyway. For all we know PD could be going through an expansion. Splitting the developer to 2 different locations would certainly allow for it

 

[Tornado]

I think my point sailed completely over your head. My point is that CSLACR is making this very assertion, that he is acting like PD got to keep all the net profits, like a third party developer.

No I'm not. No he's not. He made one smartass response to a smartass response I made, and the entire rest of the time he's made no mention that PD are the ones holding the funds.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot with the whole "twisting words" thing.

My point still stands. But I have to wonder if CS's accusation doesn't fit himself more than me, since he's arguing pretty much with nothing whatsoever to go on than "PD is now rich because of X million GT sales."

The problem is that you have been the one asserting that only Microsoft has the kind of money to throw around to do what the Forza series does. It has nothing to do with how much money PD takes from the situation, because PD isn't self-funded and CSLACR was pretty obviously being facetious when he stated that Sony took all of PD's money and gave them nothing in return. Stop trying so desperately to change the topic. Again.



And about that topic that you keep trying to get away from:

Why else would Polyphony be rolling in yen after 7-plus million sales of GT5, and 5 or 6 million sales of Prologue, and whatever it was of GTPSP?

The net from all that is possibly way over $200 million. One would think that Kaz would be happy to make Polyphony Digital the flagship SCE development studio, and largest, if he had a budget remotely like that available to him.

Sony gets the lions share of GT profits. Sony provides the funds of those profits for future game development. Ergo, it makes very little difference to PD whether they get the money to fund GT development or they keep it themselves.

Where the hell did all that money go, and why do you keep acting like it disappeared completely and PD (through Sony or through themselves, because it makes no difference whatsoever to this discussion) therefore has no money to develop the GT games like their competitors do?

 

[Rudenut]

While we respect EA's need to run their business as they see fit, we've regularly collaborated in the past and hope we can find our way back to that approach. Forza had the exclusive license for all Ferrari cars, for example, on the Xbox and PC platforms. But at the end of the day, we've always found we just weren't willing to block other racing games from having Ferraris outright, as we believed this would do nothing but hurt the racing ecosystem.

I did not come up with it. My proof is right below.

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/underthehood1/

Either TD has something that says this is a lie, or he should remain silent on the matter of questioning as it being false.


No, it was not. GAF was solely Che; it was part of his job as the Community Manager. I'm still waiting for this "trash talk" from Dan.

While I will not argue that he may have been hinting that Ferrari license exclusivity may have been the reason.

It appears to me that he may have been simply using their actions regarding the Ferrari license as an example of how developers should treat licenses in general.

 

[Tenacious D]

While splitting PD into two divisions might imply an expansion of employees, and it could be a strong implication, Kaz mentioned in an interview a couple of months ago that he made the decision because he wanted his employees with families, and those that were worried about it, relocated to Fukuoka because it was a more stable part of Japan seismically, and because of the radiation potential from the Fukushima reactor leaks.

*whew* One sentence paragraphs.

Plus, someone dug up a webpage devoted to PD looking to hire a number of employees. Before someone draws a connection, I don't think it has much to do with the issue of DLC, though it could. It seems that from the rabid fanbase here, DLC is a matter of interest, but more so, people want the team to complete the work envisioned for GT5 to start with. More A-Spec events, perhaps even more B-Spec events too. More modification options, such as bodykits, and deeper mod potential as seen in Forza. A better online implementation, again like Forza offers, or your basic online first person shooter. Leaderboards. An Event Maker tool, for producing races or entire race series off- or online. The dreaded Livery Editor which made Forza so popular, or at least templates we can choose from, as well as a massive increase in Race Moddable cars. More DLC is in the list, but I'm not sure where it would lie in importance.

Increasing the size of the team is pretty much a given, but we don't know how much SONY will fund. They know that Gran Turismo means instant profit any time a game is released, and big productions sell much better than weaker ones, which kind of describes GT5 to more than a few of us. I'm happy with it as it is, but even I want more work done on it.

And then there's the issue of when new team members will be up to speed and cranking out content. Who knows? It could be weeks, or it could be months. As next year unfolds, we'll have a better idea of how PD is handling their franchise, though I doubt we'll have to wait long to see what they're up to.

No I'm not. No he's not. He made one smartass response to a smartass response I made, and the entire rest of the time he's made no mention that PD are the ones holding the funds.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot with the whole "twisting words" thing.

Well, then you're going to have to get him to clarify just what the heck he's arguing, because everything he and a few others have said boils down to one premise:

"Polyphony made a ton of money, therefore they should be hiring a ton of new employees to do... something (DLC or whatever their beef is)."

The problem is that you have been the one asserting that only Microsoft has the kind of money to throw around to do what the Forza series does. It has nothing to do with how much money PD takes from the situation, because PD isn't self-funded and CSLACR was pretty obviously being facetious when he stated that Sony took all of PD's money and gave them nothing in return. Stop trying so desperately to change the topic. Again.

I'd like to know how I'm changing the topic at all. This is my assertion, as others have echoed themselves in this thread:

First party developers such as Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 are reliant on their parent companies, SONY and Microsoft respectively, to operate and continue to exist.

The parent companies reap the cash rewards of the game software they produce, the first parties do not. I have seen no indication of Dan Greenawalt or Kazunori Yamauchi buying immense mansions, or having them built, as Bill Gates has. Yes, Kaz has money, is quite possibly a millionaire, but that's to be expected with someone so successful and a member of the board of SONY. How PD gets funded isn't completely his decision, which is clear if you guys know anything about Japanese business attitude.

As a result, the many hundreds of people working on Forza have no bearing whatsoever on how much Forza has sold. Rather, it's an indication of how insanely rich Microsoft is, and how willing it is to use that wealth to their advantage. Note: by all indications, SONY Corp is not rich.

Now, if you have something more substantial to add to the discussion, I'm all eyes.

 

[xxDingerxx]

Where the hell did all that money go, and why do you keep acting like it disappeared completely and PD (through Sony or through themselves, because it makes no difference whatsoever to this discussion) therefore has no money to develop the GT games like their competitors do?

Where did the money go?

Well you answered part of that yourself, future games development. When you have over 20 internal developers, where you wont see any turnover from them for a year or two, doesn't come cheap. What about the projects that barely brake even.

How about all those working at Sony on the publishing side of things. They have to be paid for as well.

Distribution, production, advertising. Not to mention some of that money will goto shareholders.

Oh lets not forget Sony are still buying developers like media molecule and sucker punch.

Thats only a small part of it. What do you mean where does the money go...

 

[xxDingerxx]

EDIT. Jesus Tenacious D...Hope your keyboard survived that little post

Dont you just hate it when you hit quote instead of edit. opps

 

[CSLACR]

While splitting PD into two divisions might imply an expansion of employees, and it could be a strong implication, Kaz mentioned in an interview a couple of months ago that he made the decision because he wanted his employees with families, and those that were worried about it, relocated to Fukuoka because it was a more stable part of Japan seismically, and because of the radiation potential from the Fukushima reactor leaks.

*whew* One sentence paragraphs.

Plus, someone dug up a webpage devoted to PD looking to hire a number of employees. Before someone draws a connection, I don't think it has much to do with the issue of DLC, though it could. It seems that from the rabid fanbase here, DLC is a matter of interest, but more so, people want the team to complete the work envisioned for GT5 to start with. More A-Spec events, perhaps even more B-Spec events too. More modification options, such as bodykits, and deeper mod potential as seen in Forza. A better online implementation, again like Forza offers, or your basic online first person shooter. Leaderboards. An Event Maker tool, for producing races or entire race series off- or online. The dreaded Livery Editor which made Forza so popular, or at least templates we can choose from, as well as a massive increase in Race Moddable cars. More DLC is in the list, but I'm not sure where it would lie in importance.

Increasing the size of the team is pretty much a given, but we don't know how much SONY will fund. They know that Gran Turismo means instant profit any time a game is released, and big productions sell much better than weaker ones, which kind of describes GT5 to more than a few of us. I'm happy with it as it is, but even I want more work done on it.

And then there's the issue of when new team members will be up to speed and cranking out content. Who knows? It could be weeks, or it could be months. As next year unfolds, we'll have a better idea of how PD is handling their franchise, though I doubt we'll have to wait long to see what they're up to.


Well, then you're going to have to get him to clarify just what the heck he's arguing, because everything he and a few others have said boils down to one premise:

"Polyphony made a ton of money, therefore they should be hiring a ton of new employees to do... something (DLC or whatever their beef is)."


I'd like to know how I'm changing the topic at all. This is my assertion, as others have echoed themselves in this thread:

First party developers such as Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 are reliant on their parent companies, SONY and Microsoft respectively, to operate and continue to exist.

The parent companies reap the cash rewards of the game software they produce, the first parties do not. I have seen no indication of Dan Greenawalt or Kazunori Yamauchi buying immense mansions, or having them built, as Bill Gates has. Yes, Kaz has money, is quite possibly a millionaire, but that's to be expected with someone so successful and a member of the board of SONY. How PD gets funded isn't completely his decision, which is clear if you guys know anything about Japanese business attitude.

As a result, the many hundreds of people working on Forza have no bearing whatsoever on how much Forza has sold. Rather, it's an indication of how insanely rich Microsoft is, and how willing it is to use that wealth to their advantage. Note: by all indications, SONY Corp is not rich.

Now, if you have something more substantial to add to the discussion, I'm all eyes.

Amazing you can continue the posting, but not understand the point.
You're general claim to fame, is that MS is evil and spends more money then they make, despite the companies insane profit margins.

Well, the GT series also makes tons of money, so whomever or whatever is raking in all that money, also has plenty of money to spend to make GT as expensive as FM.
I do not care who holds the money, nor is it relevant. the point is GT is a cash cow, so if more money needs thrown into it, then they should be throwing more money into it, period.

You try to portray it as though FM has endless financial support, and GT's support is very limited. The only way GT's financial support would be so limited as you claim, is if someone in charge of all this money isn't allocating it properly.

Once again you've totally derailed an entire thread with your MS antics, so don't expect another response from me on your ongoing "M$" war campaign in random GT threads. It's typical crap, you feel you're defending GT by putting FM down, guess what? FM could cost a billion dollars and suck, and it still wouldn't make GT any better ro worse of a game, it's totally and wholly irrelevant.
Let alone it's relevance to the subject of whether or not this DLC was a reaction to FM4's release.

Where did the money go?

Well you answered part of that yourself, future games development. When you have over 20 internal developers, where you wont see any turnover from them for a year or two, doesn't come cheap. What about the projects that barely brake even.

How about all those working at Sony on the publishing side of things. They have to be paid for as well.

Distribution, production, advertising. Not to mention some of that money will goto shareholders.

Oh lets not forget Sony are still buying developers like media molecule and sucker punch.

Thats only a small part of it. What do you mean where does the money go...

And none of these things are costs the FM games don't have, so again, what's the point of bringing them up?
The GT series brings in more then enough money to support itself, whether Sony, PD or anyone else allows it to be spent properly is not my concern as a consumer.
How much money MS spends on FM is also not relevant, because they haven't spent more then what could be spent on GT games.

If MS starts spending 500 million to make an FM game, while GT simply can't generate that kind of cash, it may gain some substance, but even then very little. The cost of one game vs another has no real relevance to either's superiority.

 

[McLaren]

McLaren....

When it comes to PR between two companies like EA and MS. Never take either one's word on it as the truth is always somewhere in the middle. So to trust Turn 10's version of events is like trusting a vamipe to give you oral sex....

This is the last time I will say this. Unless you have proof that says this is possibly false, keep it to yourself. I've presented my evidence, where's yours that counters it? Your opinion doesn't hold any water that T10 is actually lying. Otherwise, I can just as easily say PD was planning DLC from the get go & that my proof is that you should never trust PD to say it wasn't.

As for DG, Che and MS doing some trash talking, here is a small collection

http://gamer.blorge.com/2009/09/29/...urismo-5-as-forza-3-is-good-on-its-own-merit/

Whilst Dan has pushed buttons, most people also forget this paragraph including your link.

“Absolutely. Kazunori Yamauchi-san is someone I have tremendous respect for. I have tremendous respect for the work of team, but I am a GT fan. I bought my first car that I stressed out about buying because I played it in Gran Turismo. I’m in this industry because of that game.

Nearly every other bit of your article is constantly talking about Che. Forza fans have already shown disappointment for him. Your link doesn't give any detail about the other employee other than him bashing GT, but no proof.

EDIT. Oh, your also reading their statement wrong. They are saying they wouldn't block Ferrari's from other games. Not that EA were trying to get MS to block Ferrari's.

I read it correctly, you did not. Try reading the link. EA would not give T10 Porsche. T10 asked people within' Porsche who could not persuade EA either. T10 says this is the end of their collaboration. They respect EA's business tactics, but they can not go through with blocking Ferrari from other Xbox titles. Put 2 and 2 together....

However, Ferrari's not showing up in Shift 2 while the italia 458 being blocked in TDU 2 on the 360 (while appearing on the PS3 version) kinda paints a different story to that statement

The 458 Italia was Forza 3's golden car. Every other Ferrari, however was allowed in TDU. Shift 2 not getting Ferrari was probably the result of T10 & EA butting heads again over an issue.

 

[thelvynau]

I was always wondering why the 458 italia was in the ps3 version of tdu2 and not xbox 360 version

 

[Da-Bomber]

Why does gt lack so many up to date cars? I don't believe this was ever answered.

 

[CSLACR]

Why does gt lack so many up to date cars? I don't believe this was ever answered.

It was, just very poorly. Somehow it has something to do with Microsoft being a monopoly.

It would be great to see some DLC with some new cars though, "up to date" versions of what we already have usually tend to be the same as what we already have.
Some honest-to-god new content for DLC would be super.

Since I do believe the DLC timing to be set up intentionally for FM4's release, it would have made more sense to include new content, rather then some very expensive alterations of what we already have in the game.

 

[thelvynau]

It was, just very poorly. Somehow it has something to do with Microsoft being a monopoly.

It would be great to see some DLC with some new cars though, "up to date" versions of what we already have usually tend to be the same as what we already have.
Some honest-to-god new content for DLC would be super.

Since I do believe the DLC timing to be set up intentionally for FM4's release, it would have made more sense to include new content, rather then some very expensive alterations of what we already have in the game.

Would you say the release in conjunction with forza 4s release was a success?

 

[GT6mebe]

The Huuurayyah or what ever it is called was a limited exclusive for EA I believe.
Not sure how long they had the rights for but it was a bonus in shift 2.
That was probably unavailable at launch and can be excused for recent release.

Cars can be bought individually if needed.

It still does not negate the fact that those 30 cars were modelled in 3 months which is impossible as Turn 10 only managed to model 90 or so cars in two years (whats on the disc) Its pretty clear that it was content held back, as people noticed cars on poster in world tour etc.

This is a bad thing and many people do not want this 👎

I was always wondering why the 458 italia was in the ps3 version of tdu2 and not xbox 360 version

Exactly thats what many people who weren't narrow minded said...maybe Microsoft did not allow EA to use Ferrari and in response Ea said you cannot use Porsche. Ironic when the guys at Turn 10 said they should share their license

You're right, FM4 doesn't need track DLC, it came out with a much better MUCH better real world track listing then GT5 has.
By miles and miles and miles and miles.
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/Tracks/TrackList.aspx

Excuse me if I don't pat PD on the back for adding and charging for the addition of a single track when their competition's track list is THIS much better.

Well track list is entirely opinion...but it is obvious Gt has the most appealing tracks to race fans.

Forza's tracks are greatly american based and lack vital tracks like Monaco, Spa, Monza. Not to mention a great deal of tracks in Forza are really inaccurate (Nurburgring is so bad that it cannot be even recognised at some points).

Whilst Dan has pushed buttons, most people also forget this paragraph including your link.

Did you not read it properly lol.
Dan Greenawalt's words "they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now."

"We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it."

"In a recent interview Greenwalt stated, “I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.” Greenwalt pretty much bashed every racing studio out there by implying Forza 3 is years ahead of everyone else. I can see that he is trying to be modest here because after all no one would ever makes that claim unless its generally accepted."

If the folks at Polyphony Digital are showing respect to Turn 10, equally show them the same kind of respect instead of bashing them as soon as their backs are turned.

End of discussion.

Back on topic...even if DLC was a reaction to Forza 4 it would have been more of a SONY decision rather than a PD decision.

EDIT; Oh crap did not see the moderator's post hopefully this does not go too of topic and get me banned Sorry.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Why does gt lack so many up to date cars? I don't believe this was ever answered.

I don't know why for sure, but my theory on this is that due to GT games taking some what longer to be released. Maybe car companies and racing series aren't willing to let GT sit on their license when other games can produce a sim to fan base in a faster time with close to or perhaps better results depending on user response. Or maybe these groups see beyond GT and are willing to put themselves on a game that they think is equal to GT.

 

[psntomaz]

I think it has nothing to do with car companies, its just PD's access to cars is limited, thats why its sooo many of Japanese cars on GT5 than anything

PD should have a studio or atleast team in the US that focus's only on DLC. its sad that Forza has all the latest cars and then some after its release and we only gotten 3 new cars thats new to the game.

dammit im having a ball with my 2011 Dodge Charger SRT8 on forza4. PD wheres our 2013 BMW M5??? Forza had thiers around the time the car debuted!!

 

[Spagetti69]

It still does not negate the fact that those 30 cars were modelled in 3 months which is impossible as Turn 10 only managed to model 90 or so cars in two years (whats on the disc) Its pretty clear that it was content held back, as people noticed cars on poster in world tour etc.

This is a bad thing and many people do not want this 👎
( Sorry.

I can understand that. I have also said to the previous poster I understand his feelings.

GT is no different in this regard though. Many of the DLC cars are in the game already. It's just that T10 had the foresight to leave them off I suppose.

Just vote with your wallet.

 

[Imari]

I'd like to know how I'm changing the topic at all. This is my assertion, as others have echoed themselves in this thread:

First party developers such as Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 are reliant on their parent companies, SONY and Microsoft respectively, to operate and continue to exist.

The parent companies reap the cash rewards of the game software they produce, the first parties do not. I have seen no indication of Dan Greenawalt or Kazunori Yamauchi buying immense mansions, or having them built, as Bill Gates has. Yes, Kaz has money, is quite possibly a millionaire, but that's to be expected with someone so successful and a member of the board of SONY. How PD gets funded isn't completely his decision, which is clear if you guys know anything about Japanese business attitude.

As a result, the many hundreds of people working on Forza have no bearing whatsoever on how much Forza has sold. Rather, it's an indication of how insanely rich Microsoft is, and how willing it is to use that wealth to their advantage. Note: by all indications, SONY Corp is not rich.

To get away from the whole "who has the richest parent company" argument, we know that Sony gave PD at least $80 million to pay for GT5s development. Probably more, when all was said and done.

Is that not a :censored:load of money?

I mean, do we have a reasonable estimate on the actual amount of money spent on producing FM4? They're certainly getting more mileage out of their content production by including as DLC when it's initially created and then using it in further editions of FM. (NOTE: I think this is an excellent tactic, and one I endorse.)

 

[chabbles]

next dlc needs to be a track pack.

any work on new tracks or cars will probably help when creating gt6 anyway

 

[Ramosis]

After many updates GT5 has a good basis (could be better, but ok, new patches are coming). So now it really needs content like '10, '11, '12 and classic cars, and two or three new race tracks (with weather changes). So the answer to the OP is no.

 

[yoman297]

You're taking this to a GT forum...

 

[thelvynau]

It still does not negate the fact that those 30 cars were modelled in 3 months which is impossible as Turn 10 only managed to model 90 or so cars in two years (whats on the disc) Its pretty clear that it was content held back, as people noticed cars on poster in world tour etc.

This is a bad thing and many people do not want this 👎

Exactly thats what many people who weren't narrow minded said...maybe Microsoft did not allow EA to use Ferrari and in response Ea said you cannot use Porsche. Ironic when the guys at Turn 10 said they should share their license

Well track list is entirely opinion...but it is obvious Gt has the most appealing tracks to race fans.

Forza's tracks are greatly american based and lack vital tracks like Monaco, Spa, Monza. Not to mention a great deal of tracks in Forza are really inaccurate (Nurburgring is so bad that it cannot be even recognised at some points).

Did you not read it properly lol.
Dan Greenawalt's words "they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now."

"We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it."

"In a recent interview Greenwalt stated, “I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.” Greenwalt pretty much bashed every racing studio out there by implying Forza 3 is years ahead of everyone else. I can see that he is trying to be modest here because after all no one would ever makes that claim unless its generally accepted."

If the folks at Polyphony Digital are showing respect to Turn 10, equally show them the same kind of respect instead of bashing them as soon as their backs are turned.

End of discussion.

Back on topic...even if DLC was a reaction to Forza 4 it would have been more of a SONY decision rather than a PD decision.

EDIT; Oh crap did not see the moderator's post hopefully this does not go too of topic and get me banned Sorry.

You mentioned my post but your response was regarding ea or ms when tdu is made by atari what would having the italia in ps3 and not in xbox version got to do with ea or ms? Just curious

 

[Scaff]

Well to say that I am rather annoyed at being ignored by the members in this thread on two separate occasions would be a massive understatement.

Thread locked and you can all consider yourselves lucky to not be spending New Year away from GT Planet.


Scaff