Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,042
I am being very honest, what does what happened at the twin towers have to do with this? I do warn you please be respectful

You warn me? Pound sand. But here's my answer:

The individuals who flew the planes into the twin towers did so BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVED. They believed that they were doing the right thing according to Allah (yet another delusional belief system). Without said beliefs of promises of 72 virgins awaiting them in the afterlife, the event would likely not have occured. It should be a painfully good example of why it matters what we believe.


BumperStickers7.jpg
 
You warn me? Pound sand. But here's my answer:

The individuals who flew the planes into the twin towers did so BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVED. They believed that they were doing the right thing according to Allah (yet another delusional belief system). Without said beliefs of promises of 72 virgins awaiting them in the afterlife, the event would likely not have occured. It should be a painfully good example of why it matters what we believe.


BumperStickers7.jpg

Religious Extremists like that are in an overwhelming minority though. Yes they can cause devastation, but if all thiests behaved like this then the world would probably have already ended. Groups like Al-Qaeda, the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church get noticed because of their rathered skewed interpretations of their repective religions that cause them to behave irrationally, none of them are exactly popular within Christianity or Islam.
 
Here's a summary of why I feel the need to argue against religion:

It's a little harsh perhaps, and not all religious people are to blame for the problems above, but nonetheless those problems wouldn't exist without religion.

It seems like your problem is with religion, not with a belief in God. The two are mutually exclusive. You can believe in God without subscribing to religion, I honestly can't think of any religion I would want to practice. I believe in God and I'm content with that, I don't anything more in my spiritual life past that.

I've heard hundreds of answers about why you would be against religion and to some extent I can agree with it. I want to know why atheists are so against people believing in God?

The idea that holding false beliefs is harmless is FALSE.

My belief in God is harmless, I'm not going to take up arms because of it.

Made you doubt what? Atheism is not an "ism", it is merely not believing in a god or gods. That's it. Nothing more.

What unanswered questions did you have, and how did supernatural BS from primitive desert men get ushered in as a satisfying answer?

What started me to explore was that I found atheist to be rather angry and I never really knew at what, I saw myself doing it and I didn't feel that's how I wanted to live my life. You are exhibiting exactly what I didn't want to become, so I looked elsewhere and explored what I really thought about life.

This lead me to start wondering about things in the universe and left me with way to many unanswered questions. Things like what created the universe, it had to have had a start point at some time and the matter had to have been the product of something more then another universe. Just the way everything works and why it works began to make me think, you eventually run out of "whys" and "how comes" and you are left with nothing but a dead end.

I've also gone through some issues and I felt that spirituality played a positive role in trying to fix it. This wasn't a deal sealer by any means, I was already past accepting my own beliefs by then. I feel like if I was still an atheist I would have had a negative outcome.
 
It seems like your problem is with religion, not with a belief in God. The two are mutually exclusive. You can believe in God without subscribing to religion, I honestly can't think of any religion I would want to practice. I believe in God and I'm content with that, I don't anything more in my spiritual life past that.

I've heard hundreds of answers about why you would be against religion and to some extent I can agree with it. I want to know why atheists are so against people believing in God?
I don't have a problem with you believing in God if it doesn't affect anyone else. However it's important for people to understand the implications of believing things without evidence and what consequences that may have. I know you're intelligent enough to have thought about this, and though I don't know exactly why you believe there is a god, I'm totally okay with you believing it. I also know that you admit you could be wrong, something which many other believers could benefit to do.
 
Religious Extremists like that are in an overwhelming minority though.

Yes, thankfully they are, but the moderate holds virtually the same base belief system. And notice the deafening silence of the Muslim world in their condemnation of the twin tower attacks. Nay, there were many (and the footage was on TV) who were cheering at the spectical. It is this protectionism of critical inquiry that leads to, or at least gives cover for lunacy.




Yes they can cause devastation, but if all thiests behaved like this then the world would probably have already ended. Groups like Al-Qaeda, the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church get noticed because of their rathered skewed interpretations of their repective religions that cause them to behave irrationally, none of them are exactly popular within Christianity or Islam.

Right. But I respectfully suggest that the moderate gets his/her moderation not from the texts of their particular brand of religion, but from secular modernity. The maniacs you refer to were just being more true to the texts than the moderate. The radical muslim with bombs for a cumberbun can find loads of support from the Koran for said attire.

It matters what people believe.
 
I don't have a problem with you believing in God if it doesn't affect anyone else. However it's important for people to understand the implications of believing things without evidence and what consequences that may have. I know you're intelligent enough to have thought about this, and though I don't know exactly why you believe there is a god, I'm totally okay with you believing it. I also know that you admit you could be wrong, something which many other believers could benefit to do.


This, but from the other side too.

I will respect an athiests beliefs if they respect mine. I don't plan on trying to convert others to Christianity or whatever, but I will challenge those that have the stubbornness to, lets be honest, preach that their is no God and that 70% of the world are idiots. The same goes for fundamentalists, asides from the ones that blow up buildings, you find most won't state their opinion with the same level of anger and aggression that athiests do.
 
I don't have a problem with you believing in God if it doesn't affect anyone else. However it's important for people to understand the implications of believing things without evidence and what consequences that may have. I know you're intelligent enough to have thought about this, and though I don't know exactly why you believe there is a god, I'm totally okay with you believing it. I also know that you admit you could be wrong, something which many other believers could benefit to do.

I understand what believing does, but I feel as there is enough evidence out there to convince me. Everyone's interpretation of the way the world works is differently so we all come to different conclusions.

I will freely admit though I am probably an agnostic with a belief in God, I don't really know what God is or really if it even exists. I do feel that with what we currently know it points more to a supernatural being then not, however if something comes along to prove it to me otherwise I am always open to listening.

I think there are probably more theists out there that believe the same thing, but they tend not to share their opinion since they were get it from both the religious and the atheists. But I do also believe it's like anything else, the most vocal people tend (not everyone though) to be at the extreme ends of the spectrum while the people who are content with the way they think don't bother to say anything at all.
 
A question for any religious person or any person that believes in a God / God like entity -

If Science ever finds out & proves without a shadow of a doubt that the Universe was not created by a God . Will you drop the concept of religion & accept their findings ? Or conversely , will you refute that evidence & carry on with your exact beliefs as before ?

A serious question by the way , I would like to hear some truthful opinions . 👍
 
I will respect an athiests beliefs if they respect mine.

Groan. When are y'all going to get this: An atheist generally doesn't have any "beliefs!" Yes, you might find an atheist who holds some crackpot "belief" like astrology, or some such other thing, but an atheist simply doesn't believe in gods. Now, if a person who holds another (opposing) supernatural, religious belief were to be in dialogue with you, then fine, you can both have a "respect fest" 'til you drop, because you're both coming at it from the same stance. But please don't demand respect (beyond the normal personal respect we ought to give one another) when you assert wild, fantastical obserdities.




I don't plan on trying to convert others to Christianity or whatever, but I will challenge those that have the stubbornness to, lets be honest, preach that their is no God

Nonsense. I don't know anyone who does this. The voices we are now witnessing debunking religious assertions is way overdue. The end of the priviledged protectionism from criticism that the religious have enjoyed is naturally going sting a little, but I suggest that it's for the best, and will help drag humanity (kicking & screaming) out of primitive, infantile beliefs, and into a more rational, reasoned future.





....and that 70% of the world are idiots.

That sounds a lot like an arguement ad populem.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/
 
A question for any religious person or any person that believes in a God / God like entity -

If Science ever finds out & proves without a shadow of a doubt that the Universe was not created by a God . Will you drop the concept of religion & accept their findings ? Or conversely , will you refute that evidence & carry on with your exact beliefs as before ?

A serious question by the way , I would like to hear some truthful opinions . 👍

Personally, yes.

It would be a kind of depressing thought though, that this is all there is. We live, we die, and thats it. Everything just happened to happen and exist that way it did with no real reason for it.
 
It would be a kind of depressing thought though, that this is all there is. We live, we die, and thats it. Everything just happened to happen and exist that way it did with no real reason for it.

Why? Why does your consciouness surviving death make your life more meaningful? How does a wonderful moment like holding the hand of your girlfriend/wife/whatever.....looking them in the eye and saying "I love you" and having a very real, loving connection, all deemed "meaningless" unless of course you get to live forever? No, I suggest that the here & now is as meaningful......even more meaningful because it's temporary.

The universe doesn't owe you meaning.



That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet. (Emily Dickinson)
 
A question for any religious person or any person that believes in a God / God like entity -

If Science ever finds out & proves without a shadow of a doubt that the Universe was not created by a God . Will you drop the concept of religion & accept their findings ? Or conversely , will you refute that evidence & carry on with your exact beliefs as before ?

A serious question by the way , I would like to hear some truthful opinions . 👍
I'm not religous person, but I'll still play the ball.

Science will never prove without doubt that there is no God. The history of science is littered with facts that were later proved incorrect.

Evolution is logical, and evidence supports it. But it's not a fact, it's still a theory as we haven't observed or viewed records of first hand accounts. Fossil records and minor mutations all support it, but there'll never been an irrefutable proof.

Just look at the doubt over the speed of light being the fastest speed a mass can travel. Just recently an experiment has disproved this, but a re-run of the test will be carried out to cover criticisms of the method voiced by others.
 
Why? Why does your consciouness surviving death make your life more meaningful? How does a wonderful moment like holding the hand of your girlfriend/wife/whatever.....looking them in the eye and saying "I love you" and having a very real, loving connection, all deemed "meaningless" unless of course you get to live forever? No, I suggest that the here & now is as meaningful......even more meaningful because it's temporary.

The universe doesn't owe you meaning.



That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet. (Emily Dickinson)

Life is extremely short in comparison to the age of the universe. Yes I believe it should be lived to the fullest, but if you're just going to die and leave no legacy (apart from maybe on a human population than will then eventually die out as well) or have any longlasting effect on the grand scheme of things, and that the universe itself will eventually die, then why is it all here?
 
Personally, yes.

It would be a kind of depressing thought though, that this is all there is. We live, we die, and thats it. Everything just happened to happen and exist that way it did with no real reason for it.

👍 For your honesty .

This notion isn't depressing at all in my view , as life as a cycle will continue . And even if we find out the true answer to the debate of where the Universe originated from & why , we still have a life to lead .

An atheist for example isn't depressed about death & the meaning of life for example . Life is beautiful & rare , and an atheist or in this example , someone who has just found out the true origin of the Universe from Science . Would continue in life and see everything in a different light perhaps ?

Thanks again for your honest reply . 👍
 
Tic Tach
You warn me? Pound sand. But here's my answer:

The individuals who flew the planes into the twin towers did so BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVED. They believed that they were doing the right thing according to Allah (yet another delusional belief system). Without said beliefs of promises of 72 virgins awaiting them in the afterlife, the event would likely not have occured. It should be a painfully good example of why it matters what we believe.

Being atheist does not mean that you are good or peaceful. Some of the worst dictators ever were atheists, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Milosevic, Lenin, Ceausescu and possibly Hitler. As someone else stated here, crazy people will be crazy people, no matter the belief or non-belief.
 
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An atheist for example isn't depressed about death & the meaning of life for example . Life is beautiful & rare , and an atheist or in this example , someone who has just found out the true origin of the Universe from Science . Would continue in life and see everything in a different light perhaps ?

Thanks again for your honest reply . 👍
Why wouldn't an atheist be depressed about death? I'd hate to think of the pain it would cause my nearest and dearest if I was to die, why shouldn't I feel that if I'm non-religious?
 
Since this thread has popped back to the top, I thought I'd spout off a bit on a few ideas that have been bouncing around in my head recently. (And no, I haven't read up on the current discussion above me)

So we start with nothing.... But since that doesn't really work, let's start with something a bit more simple, the big bang. Now, as far as we know, life was a byproduct of the big bang (Not directly, but when you boil it down, the big bang is what it all comes down to, so keep that in mind). Now, life, in its most advanced form, is intelligent. In fact, it's so intelligent it practically knows how it all started (Hence, we traced ourselves all the way back to the big bang). If that's so, wouldn't logic then declare the big bang itself as an intelligent act of some sort? As far as we know, the big bang was, in simple terms, a massive explosion. And as far as we know, explosions are not intelligent nor are they even living. So how can something with no intelligence create something that is so intelligent that it can understand what it was? And why? I know this sounds a bit like one of those dumb questions theists pose when they're about to give out in an argument, but it's more complicated than just asking, "So you tell me how the universe started", if you know what I mean.

Anyway, don't waste your time on this if it sounds to deep or just plain over thought.
 
👍 For your honesty .

This notion isn't depressing at all in my view , as life as a cycle will continue . And even if we find out the true answer to the debate of where the Universe originated from & why , we still have a life to lead .

An atheist for example isn't depressed about death & the meaning of life for example . Life is beautiful & rare , and an atheist or in this example , someone who has just found out the true origin of the Universe from Science . Would continue in life and see everything in a different light perhaps ?

Thanks again for your honest reply . 👍

I for one am not scared of death, hopefully it will come later than sooner, the unknown outcome of the transition is what bothers me. But at the end of the day, either you'll be nothing, or you'll be living a second life that is hopefully more pleasant than the first one.

I am currently studying Physics and I'm an amateur astronomer, so I tend to pursue Science a lot more than my religion. I don't attend church, but I believe in intelligent design, an afterlife, and I go by the moral values Christianity has to offer. It's easy enough for me to do scientific research without bringing God into the mix, unless of course the HST looks back 14.5 billion years and sees God lighting some TNT or whatever! :D
 
Life is extremely short in comparison to the age of the universe. Yes I believe it should be lived to the fullest, but if you're just going to die and leave no legacy (apart from maybe on a human population than will then eventually die out as well) or have any longlasting effect on the grand scheme of things, and that the universe itself will eventually die, then why is it all here?

Perhaps there is no "why", and if there is no "why", then one will indeed pound their head against a wall for their whole life. After jettisoning christianity ~25 years ago, I must say that I feel like a weight has been lifted off of my back. No more wondering about what this imaginary father figure's "will" is for life, no more fear, guilt, shame, and seeing the world/universe in both a stunted, and yet egotistical way.
 
I'm not religous person, but I'll still play the ball.

Science will never prove without doubt that there is no God. The history of science is littered with facts that were later proved incorrect.
I don't see how you could know that .
Evolution is logical, and evidence supports it. But it's not a fact, it's still a theory as we haven't observed or viewed records of first hand accounts. Fossil records and minor mutations all support it, but there'll never been an irrefutable proof.
Evolution is science fact , tried and tested .

Just look at the doubt over the speed of light being the fastest speed a mass can travel. Just recently an experiment has disproved this, but a re-run of the test will be carried out to cover criticisms of the method voiced by others.
Neutrinos are not mass , they are small non-zero mass . The speed of light barrier has little to do with the question I asked . And no , the experiments re-run does not disprove evolution as a fact . 👍
 
I don't attend church, but I believe in intelligent design

Some books you might find interesting:


http://www.amazon.com/dp/1591020840/?tag=gtplanet-20


http://www.amazon.com/dp/0813538726/?tag=gtplanet-20


http://www.amazon.com/dp/0879754516/?tag=gtplanet-20


http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307277224/?tag=gtplanet-20





...and I go by the moral values Christianity has to offer.

I suggest that you don't.


1Tim2-11.jpg


I suggest that you are a good guy and follow your own natural moral intuitions.
 
Being atheist does not mean that you are good or peaceful.

Who suggested that it does?


Some of the worst dictators ever were atheists, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Milosevic, Lenin, Ceausescu and possibly Hitler.

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so. (Adolf Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941)

I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our almighty creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work. (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 65)

Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it. (Adolf Hitler)

The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life. (Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 1933, first radio address after coming to power)

The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society. (Adolf Hitler, speech at the Reichstag, March 1933)

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith. We need believing people. (Adolf Hitler, April 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat)

The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with fascist Italy, proves beyond doubt that the fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism.
(Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, 1929)

I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted. (Adolf Hitler)

As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service. (Adolf Hitler)

The work that Christ started but could not finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude. (Adolf Hitler, December 1926)






But Pleeeeease watch this:



http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector#p/u/30/LZr-JZYctvA
 
I for one am not scared of death, hopefully it will come later than sooner, the unknown outcome of the transition is what bothers me. But at the end of the day, either you'll be nothing, or you'll be living a second life that is hopefully more pleasant than the first one.

I am currently studying Physics and I'm an amateur astronomer, so I tend to pursue Science a lot more than my religion. I don't attend church, but I believe in intelligent design, an afterlife, and I go by the moral values Christianity has to offer. It's easy enough for me to do scientific research without bringing God into the mix, unless of course the HST looks back 14.5 billion years and sees God lighting some TNT or whatever! :D

Lol , awesome 👍 .
Good luck in your studys too . 👍

cullenand
Being atheist does not mean that you are good or peaceful. Some of the worst dictators ever were atheists, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Milosevic, Lenin, Ceausescu and possibly Hitler. As someone else stated here, crazy people will be crazy people, no matter the belief or non-belief.
Ahhh , that's what they taught you in school right ? All atheists are evil ? ..... Hmm interesting.
Personally I would add George Bush Jr to that list , but that's for a different thread.
 
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I don't see how you could know that .
How can science prove something without doubt? To do that would require universal understanding, or at least accepting, of the method and findings of the scientists involved. Scientists have claimed unquestionable certainty before, and been later proved wrong. Hence a doubt will always remain amongst even the learned population.

Evolution is science fact , tried and tested .
Incorrect. Genetic mutation is fact. Adapt and survive is fact. But evolution takes millions of years to show significant results in large multi-cell organisms, hence we haven't had the time to prove it with experimental data. It's like testing medicine on mice and applying the results to humans when comparing few-cell "evolutions" with large multi-cell organisms. I don't dispute evolutionary theory, but I you shouldn't maintain it as fact.

Neutrinos are not mass , they are small non-zero mass . The speed of light barrier has little to do with the question I asked . And no , the experiments re-run does not disprove evolution as a fact . 👍
The speed of light has been taken as fact for several decades now. And in contemporary physics was believed to be indisputable.

Neutrinos have mass, hence they are non-zero mass, and hence they are a mass. This apparent disproving of the speed of light limit in contemporary physics shows that the previously indisputable can be brought into dispute. This can be applied to evolution theory just like it can to particle physics.
 
You warn me? Pound sand. But here's my answer:

The individuals who flew the planes into the twin towers did so BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVED. They believed that they were doing the right thing according to Allah (yet another delusional belief system). Without said beliefs of promises of 72 virgins awaiting them in the afterlife, the event would likely not have occured. It should be a painfully good example of why it matters what we believe.


BumperStickers7.jpg

They believed in the wrong God my freind the God Muslims beleive in and the God as in the trinity God the father son and Holy Ghost are 2 different things also there are people that are warped that htink blowing up an abortion clinic is the right way to do things. I fully disagree with all of that please do not assume and put everyone in the same catagory. the warning is that the towers are a sensative subject as I have lost freinds of my own soilders too
 
They believed in the wrong God my freind the God Muslims beleive in and the God as in the trinity God the father son and Holy Ghost are 2 different things also there are people that are warped that htink blowing up an abortion clinic is the right way to do things. I fully disagree with all of that please do not assume and put everyone in the same catagory. the warning is that the towers are a sensative subject as I have lost freinds of my own soilders too

God and Allah are the same entity, just with 2 different prophets.
 
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