Do you believe in God?

[Lucas]

These pictures come in mind when looking at this thread:

And following the almighty AUP:

 

[Touring Mars]

Slightly freaky, as I was just thinking why there are no pictures in the Bible??

 

[Lucas]

As the image says: since there are no pictures in the Bible, it didn't happen. Can't you read? Duh!

 

[Sureboss]

Slightly freaky, as I was just thinking why there are no pictures in the Bible??

The Illustrator was on strike.

 

[mindwise]

I can send you some bills with dates from before last Thursday. Though I wouldn't mind if they didn't exist and were only a figment of my imagination!

They exist alright, but they were created last thursday, including the memory you have of paying them

 

[Sureboss]

That makes no sense.

 

[Hyst]

All I'm going to say is imagine a court case debating the existence of God.

 

[buickgnx88]

"God touched me and many others!"

"Now Timmy, show me on this doll where God touched you."

 

[Hyst]

'..so, defendant, what evidence have you got to support your belief in God?'

'..uhh..'.

 

[Lucas]

Hutz: [walking around a corner] Well, I couldn't prove God doesn't exist. Here's your pizza.
Atheist: But we could prove it!
Hutz: That's OK, the box is empty.

 

[stumpydino]

even if the stories did not happen the morals and teachings still hold weight. even though the concept of god, or the conjured image of this white man figure is not real the things it represents are still good

 

[Danoff]

even if the stories did not happen the morals and teachings still hold weight. even though the concept of god, or the conjured image of this white man figure is not real the things it represents are still good

Some of them are, some of them are not. Especially if you consider all religions.

 

[Touring Mars]

As a last thursday-ist, obviously, starting coming friday, i'll believe that the universe and all that's in it (and that includes our memories) were actually created last thursday.

Try and prove me wrong

I can send you some bills with dates from before last Thursday. Though I wouldn't mind if they didn't exist and were only a figment of my imagination!

They exist alright, but they were created last thursday, including the memory you have of paying them

That makes no sense.

It does make sense, but only if you believe in Last Thursdayism... mindwise has made a pretty safe bet - you can't prove he's wrong... but neither can anyone prove that he's right... Last Thursdayism is as likely to be correct as Last One-Secondism... (i.e. the universe was created a second ago, including this post, and all the memories and "evidence" of past events leading up to it). At which point in time you believe the starting point for our existence lies depends upon your belief system - most of choose not to trust our own arbitrary guesses (like last Thursday, or one second ago) because there is no evidential support for them... most people accept that science is able to provide the most accurate (and likely) answer by many independent lines of evidence which tell the same story. Others, however, choose to believe that this is an illusion, created by God...

Ironically, religious people have a problem with this sort of thing too - because if you believe that God creates memories and fake "evidence" to make the universe look very old (i.e. 14 billion years old) when infact it is actually only 6000 years old (or, if you are a Last Thursdayist, a mere 4 days old... or if you are a Last Secondist, a mere 1 second old!) then you'd be hard pushed not to think of God as a bit of a joker... The very idea that the universe and more specifically, all of human history is an elaborately designed/created illusion is as abhorrent to Creationists as it is to others, because it makes God look supremely deceptive. This is why they don't dismiss all scientific evidence (i.e. fossils) out of hand, but rather attempt to explain them in a way that is consistent with their arbitrarily chosen "start date" of ca. 6000 years ago. This is also why Creationists would rather we re-wrote the laws of physics in order to explain why we are able to see stars and galaxies far more distant than the 6000 light years that a Young Universe would allow...

The very idea that the universe and more specifically, all of human history is an elaborately designed/created illusion is as abhorrent to Creationists as it is to others, because it makes God look supremely deceptive

This is the killer argument against Creationism, IMO, one that I have yet to hear any reasonable answer to. What Creationism (or Intelligent Design) specifically allows within its central dogma is that no matter what the "evidence" says, the reality could be (or is) completely different. So what?

Here's what... what it means is that your parents, your children, your memories, your grandmother's stories, your country's history, the laws of physics etc. etc. are all mere artefacts of a designer's whim. e.g. You may share genes with your sister, and both of you share more genes with your parents than any other living people do. This is ultimate proof that you are a real family, right? Creationism (and indeed, Last Thursdayism) say different. They say "Ah, it only looks like this is the case, but infact, it's not!!"... how insulting can you possibly get?

 

[Sureboss]

I await with intrigue if I ever live to the day when religion tries to explain life outside of Earth.

 

[TheCracker]

I await with intrigue if I ever live to the day when religion tries to explain life outside of Earth.

They can explain dinosaurs, carbon dating and rock layering. I'm sure they can twist something already written to explain alien life.

 

[Hyst]

I still haven't figured out how you can tell someone about your beliefs in God and not go red to the point of maroon in the face just listening to yourself throw up such fairy tales.

 

[Duke]

I still haven't figured out how you can tell someone about your beliefs in God and not go red to the point of maroon in the face just listening to yourself throw up such fairy tales.

All right, easy there, big fellas. Let's play the ball, not the men. I happen to agree with the atheist side, but lets try to keep the discussion focused on the strengths of our argument, not the weaknesses of the people who disagree. Thanks.

 

[Lucas]

I don't have a problem with people who believe in God, but when they want to turn you into a believer, that just cracks my nerve. When I told my mom that I had stop believing in "Him", she told me that I wanted to be like my brother. Not only that, but she did not wanted me to become an atheist. I mean, what's the problem? You want to believe in him? Do so, but let me think for my own.

 

[Danoff]

I don't have a problem with people who believe in God, but when they want to turn you into a believer, that just cracks my nerve. When I told my mom that I had stop believing in "Him", she told me that I wanted to be like my brother. Not only that, but she did not wanted me to become an atheist. I mean, what's the problem? You want to believe in him? Do so, but let me think for my own.

The problem is that if, she's a true believer, you're removing yourself entirely from her future life in an eternally blissful wonderland and condemning yourself to unspeakable evils in an everlasting pit of torment.

So you can see why, for your own well-being, she'd be wanting you to change your mind.

 

[Lucas]

So true, and at the same time so sad, considering the high chance that such paradise doesn't exist.

 

[Sage]

Which reminds me:

 

[Skynyrd1977]

The problem is that if, she's a true believer, you're removing yourself entirely from her future life in an eternally blissful wonderland and condemning yourself to unspeakable evils in an everlasting pit of torment.

So you can see why, for your own well-being, she'd be wanting you to change your mind.

Danoff, excellent analysis, +100:tup: It warmed my heart. I wish more folks would recognize that it is out of love and care that we promote our belief and faith.

So true, and at the same time so sad, considering the high chance that such paradise doesn't exist.

Codename, many including myself would argue the chance is high that it does.

Which reminds me:
(Penn YouTube clip)

Sage, very good piece! Well said by Penn. Admirable. I would pose one observation though, Penn states matter of factly that he "knows" God does not exist. But he also tells us that Psalms is from the New Testament. But it's from the Old Testament. My point being; what he "knows" may be incorrect.

So much to talk about here, so little time. Love this thread!

 

[DaddyVDUB]

A Little food for thought;
The debate whether or not you believe in God will always go back to creation. In the case of the non believer you are faced with an unexplainable beginning. I'm not talking specifics,in general something has a beggining which we cannot fathom.Whether you think the universe all started from 1 single atom, or a magical big bang.That 1 atom or that magical big bang came from somewhere right. Why is it so hard to accept that the Creator is the All -Mighty God. All creation has different "levels" of abilitys and intelligence, different special gifts and talents so to speak.Just as the difference in individul people can be so vast. Deep down the rejection of God is just selfishness,I want to live on MY TERMS, At least when I was a non believer I can say that was my stance.It is just un imaginable to look at how complex the design of all of nature and the universe and think seriously that there was'nt a DESIGNER.How could you hear and see the complex workings of a piano andthink it was just a product of chance? Or the wonders of the Human brain amazing design. I find it so easy and perfectly comforting to know that God is the Designer,He is in Control even while the world is in caos, due to OUR hand.

 

[Zrow]

Why is it so hard to accept that the Creator is the All -Mighty God.

So what created God?

Deep down the rejection of God is just selfishness,I want to live on MY TERMS

While it's true that athiests want to live on their terms, I wouldn't say this is a real impetus to becoming an athiest. The reason people are athiests is that they actively don't believe God exists. Believing in and rejecting God is different than not believing in the first place.

It is just un imaginable to look at how complex the design of all of nature and the universe and think seriously that there was'nt a DESIGNER.How could you hear and see the complex workings of a piano andthink it was just a product of chance? Or the wonders of the Human brain amazing design

It doesn't matter what we think - science has shown us time and time again that things evolve. The world is extremely complex, and that's okay. There doesn't have to be an easy answer (like God) for these things.







One last thing...

I find it so easy and perfectly comforting to know that God is the Designer,He is in Control even while the world is in caos, due to OUR hand.

If your faith makes you happy and gives you peace, then that's what is important. 👍

 

[DaddyVDUB]

What created the magic "evolving" thing?

You see that what created God argument doesnt hold up because whatever you believe to be the "creator" the same can be ask.

And for right now the Living can believe and act upon whatever ideal they wish,God gives you that, but every one of us WILL know for sure the truth upon the end of this VERY brief life, I really hope that you make the right choice.

At that time I really dont think there will be a Scientific discussion.

"Professing themselves to be wise,They became Fools".

 

[Sage]

I would pose one observation though, Penn states matter of factly that he "knows" God does not exist. But he also tells us that Psalms is from the New Testament. But it's from the Old Testament. My point being; what he "knows" may be incorrect.

I’m 100% positive that was just a brain fart on his part and that he actually knows it’s from the Old Testament (he doesn’t allow himself to do re-takes on these videos, so even if he knows he made a mistake, it goes up) – I’ve heard him talk on the radio for hours about the Bible, and I know for a fact that he’s read it all the way through at least several times.

Plenty of creationists (maybe 100%?) have made slip-ups regarding science, so it works the other way around too.

What created the magic "evolving" thing?

Evolution is far from magic – it’s pretty much a guaranteed reaction of the laws of physics. I posted a highly schematic description earlier in this thread. Knowing a little science goes a long way…

 

[Famine]

In the case of the non believer you are faced with an unexplainable beginning.

And?

Does everything need to be explained right now? Or are there things which we can't yet explain and are discovering all the time?

Just because I don't yet have an answer for something doesn't mean I have to fill the gap with "God did it".

I find it so easy and perfectly comforting to know that God is the Designer,He is in Control even while the world is in caos, due to OUR hand.

Ease and comfort being the hallmarks of fact, right?

 

[Blake]

You see that what created God argument doesnt hold up because whatever you believe to be the "creator" the same can be ask.

So while you admit that you don’t know what was there before God, you are sure he created us.

Seems kind of similar to the Big Bang theory, in that we have no idea what was there before the singularity. Yet you’re rubbishing this idea because of an unexplained beginning… am I the only one confused by this logic?

Surely if the singularity “had to come from somewhere” then so did God. Why does our lack of understanding of the precursor conditions to the Big Bang make it seem ridiculous to you, while our lack of understanding of God is perfectly acceptable?

every one of us WILL know for sure the truth upon the end of this VERY brief life, I really hope that you make the right choice.

Unless you’re wrong, in which case every one of us will know exactly nothing at the end of our lives.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

And?

Does everything need to be explained right now? Or are there things which we can't yet explain and are discovering all the time?

Just because I don't yet have an answer for something doesn't mean I have to fill the gap with "God did it".



Ease and comfort being the hallmarks of fact, right?

No it dosent ,and that was my point,I cant explain where God came from any more than you can explain where the first atom of matter did. With or without God.

Im not filling a gap with "God did it."

Just is more logical for me to to believe there is an intelligent creator.

Both sides have to agree that there is a mystery,before there was any of creation,there was some thing that started it all,I just believe that it is God.
You have heard this before but,if a native of the Amazon rain forrest found a digital phone in the jungle do you think he would believe that was part of nature or some one MADE and designed it.

If say for example anyone ever cracks open a chicken egg and there is a Corvette inside then I may accept that there is no design in creation.And the universe is completly random.

And no," ease and comfort" are not the hallmarks of fact, that was a personal statement.

Evolution does not scare me at all,I think there has been some changes to animals and the Earth its self. Which describes design even further,placed into the "programming" is the ability to adapt to survive.

 

[TheCracker]

If say for example anyone ever cracks open a chicken egg and there is a Corvette inside then I may accept that there is no design in creation.And the universe is completly random.

And no," ease and comfort" are not the hallmarks of fact, that was a personal statement.

Evolution does not scare me at all,I think there has been some changes to animals and the Earth its self. Which describes design even further,placed into the "programming" is the ability to adapt to survive.

So why did God 'design' the human body with useless things like body hair, wisdom teeth, the coccyx, nipples on men and tiny vestigial sperm ducts situated behind the ovaries of women. Or even the little toe? - None of these things are of any use to modern man, but they do point to evolution.