Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 623 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,050 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,040
Long post alert.

In the case of the non believer you are faced with an unexplainable beginning.

Not necessarily. If the theory is correct, then the world of science will be able to explain many of the physical and astronomical happenings if the Large Hadron Collider manages to reveal the Higgs boson particle. At the moment, the theories are just that: Theories. Should the particle be discovered as expected, then the theories will become very strong answers indeed. Even if they don't discover it, I'm willing to bet there's a hundred other more likely theories waiting in the wings than "a creator".

That 1 atom or that magical big bang came from somewhere right.

Yes, they came from somewhere - the matter that already existed in the universe, moving and swirling around, perhaps very volatile already and all that was needed was the right combination of gasses and boom, we have the bang, the fusion and fission of atoms and mixtures of gasses that developed over billions of years into what we see today. There's nothing in fact to say that the same hasn't happened before, many thousands of times, and other universes have come and gone before us.

Do you believe that God is infinite, and has existed in a time before existance itself? If that is the case, why is it so hard to imagine that there was existance before the big bang?

People seem to think of time pre-big bang as a big white void with nothing in it. What's to say that's true? Pre-big bang the void would have been dark - darkness doesn't need creating, it just needs little enough light. Did time itself start with the big bang? Why would it? Time is as infinite as anything else. It's just that humans only tend to think of time as something they've created by measuring day and night in an ever more accurate fashion. It doesn't mean it was created though. Time is just the measure of the passing of events. If events have always happened, even before the supposed big bang, then time has existed too.

Why is it so hard to accept that the Creator is the All -Mighty God.

You pose this question on your beliefs, we pose the question - why is it so hard to accept that physics, chemistry and biology are responsible for the whole thing?

Personally it amuses me when people think that it's impossible it happened by chance, reasoning that the probability of us being like we are is so small without some divine being creating us this way. This is incredibly ignorant to the vastness and infinity of space, and the many billions of other galaxies, an exponentially larger amount of stars and an exponentially larger number of planets than there are stars. As we know very little about these, who is to say that these are uninhabited? The odds of life on other planets might be much higher than we think. Just because we're the only inhabited planet out of the handful in our solar system, it doesn't mean the same applies throughout the rest of the universe.

Let's put that into a believable concept - just because you can't find a particular CD (aka life) in any of your local record shops (aka our local planets), it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in another town (aka another solar system) or even another country (aka another galaxy). All the criteria for it existing are present and correct, you've seen it for sale on the internet (we are aware that life exists in the first place - the evidence is ourselves), it just isn't nearby (we know what is required to sustain even basic, single-celled life - we just need to find it elsewhere in the universe).

Deep down the rejection of God is just selfishness

That's a ridiculous thing to say, and insulting to those who actually believe in science. I don't reject God because I'm high and mighty about how I live my life, I reject the concept of a God because it's nonsensical in the extreme and I'm fascinated by the progress of science.

How could you hear and see the complex workings of a piano andthink it was just a product of chance? Or the wonders of the Human brain amazing design.

Religious believers and even those who simply don't know enough about science always make the mistake of assuming that you must have a whole brain as it is at the moment in order for it to function and in order for us to do the things we do. The other old chestnut is the eye. "How can something so complex simply have evolved", they ask. It's completely ignoring the concept that only part of a brain or part of an eye would be incapable of doing anything useful, which isn't the case. Part of a brain (even a miniscule part) is still useful for cognitive thought and descision making, even if it's on an instinctive level (an animal might shelter itself when it gets cold, even if it's brain isn't capable of coming up with the working plans for a suspension bridge).

An eye is still an eye even if the only things you can discern are light and dark. You don't need to be able to focus or even discern the shape of objects - which is likely how most eyes in creatures started, as simple light/dark receptors. They've had millions upon millions of years to evolve into the eyes we have today.

I find it so easy and perfectly comforting to know that God is the Designer

If the human race had taken the easy and comforting route throughout it's history, we'd have been extinct long ago. We need inquisition, risk and certain discomfort to advance our species. It would have been easy and comforting for the Wright brothers to stick to walking everywhere, but they wanted to soar with the birds and as a result we owe them and their fellow pioneers the glory of being able to make machines that allow us to fly.

What created the magic "evolving" thing?

People seem to believe that evolution is the product of chance, and then argue that as a reason that God must have created us instead.

Firstly, you don't create something that evolves, something evolves from something else, right back to single cells, that evolved from microbes and bacteria, that existed from the correct amounts of chemical reactions and elements already present in the universe.

Secondly, evolution itself is very much not a product of chance. It's the complete opposite, in fact. It's non-random survival. Again, this doesn't need someone to create it - we weren't created as we are today - it just needed our ancestors to not get killed, or to breed with the stronger and more intelligent so that we could become stronger and more intelligent ourselves.

And for right now the Living can believe and act upon whatever ideal they wish,God gives you that, but every one of us WILL know for sure the truth upon the end of this VERY brief life, I really hope that you make the right choice.

If God is the sort of being that will ask St. Peter to disallow passage into heaven simply because you didn't believe in him despite leading a good life, whilst "believers" who led a bad life yet confessed all their sins are allowed in, then the passage into heaven isn't worth it anyway.

And again, it's mildly insulting to assume that all of us will eventually recant on our death beds because we're scared of what will happen otherwise. It again points to a God that isn't as merciful as he's made out, which is a bit of a crummy immage for a deity.
 
Looks as if YOU have all the wisdom of the universe,theres no point in any other discussion for you will not even accept the notion of God.

And by the way concerning being rejected in the after life,one last example say you spent your life homeless living on the street,hungry cold etc but the whole time your father has a nice home,and has invited you why could it be HIS fault if you do not accept.

Peace to You.
 
say you spent your life homeless living on the street,hungry cold etc but the whole time your father has a nice home,and has invited you why could it be HIS fault if you do not accept.
I'd ask him why he kicked me out into the street in the first place, and why is it that I have to take it on faith that he even has a home for me to go to at all.

And great post, HFS 👍
 
Looks as if YOU have all the wisdom of the universe,theres no point in any other discussion for you will not even accept the notion of God.

Did you actually read my post or does it challenge your belief too much? The thread is titled "Do you believe in God?". I answered this simply ealier in the thread, with a "no" and small explanation, but I'm entirely open to posting more if I feel it's justified. In this case, I felt justified because the statements you made and questions you asked were almost the typical response of someone who's never tried to consider any option other than God.

I've had almost 24 years to consider whether to believe in scientific theory or whether to give up trying to learn about the world around us and put it all down to a God instead. Even as a child I saw more logic in science, despite having gone to both a Catholic primary school and a Catholic secondary school and being taught religious education at least once a week over the course of twelve whole years.

Trust me, I've had plenty of time to consider the notion of a God.

And by the way concerning being rejected in the after life,one last example say you spent your life homeless living on the street,hungry cold etc but the whole time your father has a nice home,and has invited you why could it be HIS fault if you do not accept.

Bad example, though I'm sure one that's done the rounds tiresomely every time someone questions the afterlife like I did before.

The invitation would be what you'd be given at the gates of Heaven, not being on the streets your whole life believing that someone would be there to make it all better for you. "Not accepting" would be getting to the gates and then deciding not to go inside. I'd suggest it would be His fault if you'd been on the streets your whole life leading the best life you can and then he didn't let you inside.

Being a believer in science, I wouldn't be on the streets waiting for someone to offer me into their warm home anyway - I'd be picking myself up and building my life into something worthwhile.
 
Go ahead ask him,he's listening.

Been there. Done that. Didn't work. Next.

As TM said, great post by HFS.

DaddyVDUB
Deep down the rejection of God is just selfishness

Given the belief that someone created a whole universe just for us, I'd say that's a better definition of selfishness. Or maybe arrogance.
 
but every one of us WILL know for sure the truth upon the end of this VERY brief life, I really hope that you make the right choice.

Just keep in mind, that if the atheists are right, you just 'wasted' that single precious life, living according to the arcane rules of a fantasy figure.

I just thought i'd mention that, it's something that's easily overlooked but quite final and dramatic.
 
George Carlin said it best.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing to show me that there is a god. And there is nothing to show me which religion is the one that is the truth. At all.

Any religion will say you will go to Hell or equivalent if you don't worship their way. It's more than likely that it's all a load of bullocks (referring to any religion) and what really happens when we die is truthfully useless information until we do die, because we simply cannot know.

So I choose complete ignorance and to believe that there is no god. And if there is one, that's just going to be one hell of a bad trip when I die. Oh, wait.
 
Surely if the singularity “had to come from somewhere” then so did God. Why does our lack of understanding of the precursor conditions to the Big Bang make it seem ridiculous to you, while our lack of understanding of God is perfectly acceptable?

The key word is "if" in your first sentence. Big Bang had to come from somewhere because it is a scientific theory. God is a mystery, and unexplainable. One MUST rely on faith in Him. You, my, and everyones lack of understanding of God IS perfectly acceptable. But i'm testifying to you that when one truely does this, He proves himself.


So why did God 'design' the human body with useless things like body hair, wisdom teeth, the coccyx, nipples on men and tiny vestigial sperm ducts situated behind the ovaries of women. Or even the little toe? - None of these things are of any use to modern man, but they do point to evolution.

Can I have your nipples and little toes? Just in case...you never know.:sly:
I'm not convinced they are not of any use, simply because of what has NOT been discovered yet.

I'd ask him why he kicked me out into the street in the first place, and why is it that I have to take it on faith that he even has a home for me to go to at all.

What if He gives you a good answer?

Have you ever been forced into a requirement (say by teacher or parent or someone) that made absolutely no sense at all to you, which you hated and did not understand, but you followed do to "or else", and later on, sometimes much later on, you totally understood why going through the proceedure/requirement/experience was nessecary to learn something?

My father kicked me out, 30 years later retrospectively I'm glad he did.


Just keep in mind, that if the atheists are right, you just 'wasted' that single precious life, living according to the arcane rules of a fantasy figure.

MW MW MW, if your right every life is meaningless. But arcane rules are your opinion, what I see looking back on history is a vast majority of life improvements for the entire world population based on the "rules" layed down by Jesus, who exists and is not a fantasy figure.


George Carlin said it best.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing to show me that there is a god. And there is nothing to show me which religion is the one that is the truth. At all.

Any religion will say you will go to Hell or equivalent if you don't worship their way. It's more than likely that it's all a load of bullocks (referring to any religion) and what really happens when we die is truthfully useless information until we do die, because we simply cannot know.

So I choose complete ignorance and to believe that there is no god. And if there is one, that's just going to be one hell of a bad trip when I die. Oh, wait.

George was a legendary comedian, but it is sadly not the "Best" testimony. Why is the testimony of 10's of billions not worth anything?

tr
 
Can I have your nipples and little toes? Just in case...you never know.:sly:
I'm not convinced they are not of any use, simply because of what has NOT been discovered yet.

;) It's not that their use hasn't yet been discovered, it's more that, in the case of little toes and the appendix, that our earlier human ancestors did have use for them, but we have evolved in a way that they are no longer of any use to us. Male nipples on the other hand are there so we have something to hang our nipple clamps on.
 
MW MW MW, if your right every life is meaningless.

Actually, not.

If mindwise is correct, the life we have is the only one we have - and thus what we do now is all that has meaning. If he isn't then this life is merely a precursor to a better one and what we do only has meaning if it is according to a set of rules shouted at us by men in dresses from a book they never read the original version of written by people centuries ago.


But arcane rules are your opinion, what I see looking back on history is a vast majority of life improvements for the entire world population based on the "rules" layed down by Jesus, who exists and is not a fantasy figure.

Many, many horrors have been committed by people who believed they were following those rules - and similar rules from other mendressestranslatedoldbook.
 
1st it was the C vs E thread, now its this one..

Just want to say how awesome it is to read these debates and how much stronger my belief (maybe not quite the right word) in the evolution / famine / danoff / TM side is becoming.

Having been brought up a beliver in God by my mum and her friends, i have had lived on both sides of the arguments. Though i just want to tell 1 little story of what really caused me to start investigating and questioning what my mum and her friends pushed on me. I remember when i was younger (12-14ish) crying because the paster of a church camp i was attending with my grand parents said that the only way to get into heaven was to accept god and that jesus died for us on the cross otherwise you dont get in (basically). And i knew my dad didnt accept this, i cried because i would never see my dad in heaven... for all eternity... Now i could actully begin to fathome how long that is back and this hit me hard. Even though he is a great person with good morales and treats people how he wants to be treated and in fact taught me to be such a kind mannered and nice person, because he didnt belive in that i would not see him in heaven. What stupid principles... i dont want to belive in such a flawed system. That system has so many traits of being man made rather than "god made" that to me it seems far more likely it was created with intent to control the masses through comforting the hard questions everyone askes them selves once or twice in their life.

I mean how fear controlling is that? brain washing and controlling kids with such fear for the things AFTER death. Things like not ever being able to see or interact with people they may love to death no matter how good they are just becaues they fail to "belive". Now it sounds more like the school cool kids not letting you in their awesome club house after school because you dont share their thoughts.

I live a life where i dont agree thier is no god, but i also dont agree their is one. I mean no proof he doesnt exist and no proof he does.

As a Human i think we all would love to believe we are not alone and something else, something higher up exists that can be some sort of guardian over us to teach us and to spread wisdom, be it god or intelligent aliens. However sadly no proof that this is "thing" is existing right now in our known universe.

So basically ive come to the conclusion that all i know for certain is the life i have right now, might be life after death, hell might be life before we were born, who knows im open to suggestions i love debating it, but there is no solid evidence or even shaky evidence to support either theory... yet (always open)..

So i go on what is for certain, and thats the current life i have. Live it to the best way i know how and enjoy it and hope others whom are in contact with me enjoy it too. Im not gonna waste the only thing i know for sure, live it how some guys thousdands of years ago wrote a book over hundreds of years based on a guy who we cant prove existed in the way they wrote just because it promises to answer my greatest fears/questions and gives me eternal life (which again is a human desire as we fear death/unknown, which in itself is natures way of ensuring evoltuion... but we wont go there) as long as i throw out anyting that contradicts the story no matter how logical it may be just so i can cling to the happy feeling this book gives me knowing that nothing is unasnwered or undiscovered and now i will live forever with an awesome all powerful being watching and guiding my every step through this life.

So i guess to answer the thread.. I dont belive in god, though if he was to be proven i would.

Edit:
just want to add, just because i dont live by the bible im now free of moral and im some axe weilding madman who murderds innocent life.... Contrary i think people whom arnt driven by religion could even be "better" people, i only need to mention alah and you understand where im coming from. Ive never smoked a cigarette or had any drugs other than what was prescribed. Though i do drink alcohol i manage it and dont become legless and do stupid stuff. I think that is also a big mosconception that because people dont belive in the bible or god they are some how removed from moral and live "bad" lives with no fear of concequences...


btw i know i may not be the best speller or the best at grammer but dont hold that against me or use it to degrade my intelligence.... My mind is heavily biased towards patterns and numbers / mathimatics / logic. Sadly i never found spelling or grammer any of the above.
 
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if your right every life is meaningless.
I don't follow how you get to this conclusion - As Zrow said, life has plenty of meaning with or without God... suggesting that life is meaningless without a proper knowledge of our true origins is simply not true, although I think that it is a fundamentally important thing for us to understand. It is a bitter irony, then, that there are so many people, mostly (if not exclusively) religious people, who can look at the masses of evidence relating to our true origins and dismiss it as "meaningless" or some sort of illusion. It kind of begs the question, if the meaning of life is such an important issue, then why reject the answers when we actually find them?

How knowledge influences one's views on the "meaning" of life is a highly subjective matter, but the nature of knowledge itself is not. You can choose to believe whatever you like in order to give your life "meaning", but it doesn't change the fact that what you choose to believe may be demonstrably false. While the presence of a supernatural creator is not "demonstrably false", the belief that life could not have arisen without one is... Similarly, although we cannot say for absolutely certain than heavy elements are not created by a divine hand, we can say for certain that heavy elements can form via the process of stellar nucleosynthesis... the presence of this fact, however, means that although we cannot disprove the first idea (that elements are made by a divine hand), we can say for sure that we needn't rely on this idea to explain where heavy elements come from, since we have discovered the presence of a natural phenomenon (stellar nucleosynthesis) which does the exact same thing.

(9000th post, FTW!)

edit: Didn't see your post S_F as I was typing mine while you posted...

Small_Fryz
I dont belive in god, though if he was to be proven i would.
👍 Sums it up nicely...
 
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How knowledge influences one's views on the "meaning" of life is a highly subjective matter, but the nature of knowledge itself is not. You can choose to believe whatever you like in order to give your life "meaning", but it doesn't change the fact that what you choose to believe may be demonstrably false. While the presence of a supernatural creator is not "demonstrably false", the belief that life could not have arisen without one is... Similarly, although we cannot say for absolutely certain than heavy elements are not created by a divine hand, we can say for certain that heavy elements can form via the process of stellar nucleosynthesis... the presence of this fact, however, means that although we cannot disprove the first idea (that elements are made by a divine hand), we can say for sure that we needn't rely on this idea to explain where heavy elements come from, since we have discovered the presence of a natural phenomenon (stellar nucleosynthesis) which does the exact same thing.
Wish i could word posts like this... totally agree and if i had the ablility to express myself its exactly how i would write it 👍
(9000th post, FTW!)
Its OVER 9000!!!!111!!!oneone!!!


Sorry had to be done...
 
I've always wondered about this:

God does not approve war and/or murder. Muslims say that "Allas does not like the agressive". Why did the crusades ever take place then? What I fail to understand is how religion disapproves of murder and war, yet religious people were fighting a war in "The Holy Land" which turned out to be a masscre...

Thoughts?
 
Interpretation.

People interpreted God to say he didn't approve war and/or murder, other interpreted God to say that all non-believers should be killed. All religion is interpreted differently, by so many different groups and in so many different ways.

Touring Mars
Stellar Nucleosynthesis
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-stellar-nucleosynthesis.htm

I googled and come up with the above, seems like a very good and brief explanation. For me, I didn't know what caused stars to go supernova.

Small Fryz
but there is no solid evidence or even shaky evidence to support either theory... yet (always open)..

I'd disagree with that.
 
God does not approve war and/or murder. Muslims say that "Allas does not like the agressive". Why did the crusades ever take place then? What I fail to understand is how religion disapproves of murder and war, yet religious people were fighting a war in "The Holy Land" which turned out to be a masscre...

Because there are some in this world, now and in the past, who claim to have listened to their God telling them that a crusade or a war is the right path, and other people are gullible enough to believe them.

"If king whoever or prophet whatshisname said God told them to do it, it must be right"

What the gullible masses didn't know or were too ignorant to believe, was that king whoever and prophet whatshisname were basically megalomaniac individuals, and using their God's word was just a simple way to get the ignorant or those scared of their God's wrath to follow their wishes.

For example, Muslims are a peaceful religious group for the vast majority, but there will always be fundamentalist individuals claiming that they were told "Jihad" is the only option, their impressionable followers will believe them, and before long you have an army of fundamentalists believing the war they're involved in is their God's wishes. The same happened with the Crusades.
 
George was a legendary comedian, but it is sadly not the "Best" testimony. Why is the testimony of 10's of billions not worth anything?

Er, what?

I was referring to the "Religion is ********" skit. In fact, those exact words. It's exactly how I feel.

Shoot me for it. Someone probably will too.
 
Imagine a world without religion, now that would be paradise!

My guess is that without religion there would be no war (way less anyway), no biases against other religions and cultures since there are no religions and only one culture. Everyone is just living their own life and just living it. Probably a lot more would be better as well! Well, different cultures between different countries should excist, otherwise it would be boring and you'd not have anything to be proud of. But it should have nothing to do with faith and religion.

Maybe it wouldn't work at all, but religion has for sure screwed it up in many ways I think.
 
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I think about this topic this way:

Buddha and Muhammad actually existed. I Heard about that one time.

God, on the other hand, has no proof that he actually existed.

I think that people that believe in God are brainwashed By the "bible", by church, and by other people who Believe in this fake god.

In fact, my dad once told me that the "bible" is "a great work of fiction".

and guess what? I believe him!

in fact, i call Christianity and all offshoots of it (with the exception of judaism, of course) "The God Complex"

a closing thought: It really pisses me off when people make the common assumption that religion causes all wars.

Just for the record: religion didn't cause the American Civil War, The American Revolution, The War of 1812, WWI, WWII, The Korean War, the Vietnam war, and almost any other war than America been a part of that you can think of

In fact, out of ALL the practicing religions in America, the only one that can say it caused wars is Muslim.

(and don't give me any crap about the Christians and the"crusades" because, quite frankly, they brought that on themselves.
 
In fact, out of ALL the practicing religions in America, the only one that can say it caused wars is Muslim.

You're probably thinking of recent wars when you wrote this sentence. If so, I've got news for you: The events that started off the whole "terrorist" fear a the beginning of the decade weren't done in the name of holy war, so Muslims can't be accused of starting it - invididuals who happen to be Muslim can.

And if you remember correctly, war was declared by non-Muslim Americans, over dis-proven claims about weapons of mass destruction and false, dis-proven claims that Saddam Hussain was in league with Al-Qaeda. So basically that wasn't started by religion either, it was started by lies, and some might say by megalomaniacal power.

In fact, if one line on Wiki is anything to go by (best take anything on Wiki with a pinch of salt), then Christianity is more to blame than Islam - "U.S. President Bush allegedly told Palestinian officials either that God inspired him to end the tyranny in Iraq, or to hit Saddam"

But frankly, I'd not be keen to lay the blame on any religion. It shocks me more when people show surprise that there's been conflict after US and UK forces invaded Iraq. What, really? You mean countries don't like being invaded? I thought they were meant to lay down and capitulate?

As for which religions are responsible for what, you can't lay the blame on one more than any other, and I suspect your comment about Muslims would be rather offensive should there be any Muslims on this forum.
 
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