Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
  • 24,489 comments
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,042
Neither have I, but I suspect that it's only because I wasn't around when the Catholic church would say that outright.

The Catholic Church definitely considers itself the best faith however, I can assure you of that. They never missed an opportunity when a comparison was brought up to list why Catholicism is better than xxx and how it will help you get into heaven more easily. It's basically the same thing niky is talking about, only more politically correct I guess.

The Catholic Church considers itself the one and true universal Church with St. Peter as first Pope, and therefore the one that was directly founded by Jesus. That much is true.

That's not to say the catholic hierarchy does not recognize the same dinastical line in all of the major old churches, be them protestants or orthodox. The way the Catholic Church sees them, they are rogue churches in the sense they do not recognize the authority of the Roman Pope. But all their priests have acquired that "status" (I really have difficulty in expressing myself in English when the careful choice of words is needed) from bishops that have themselves become priests from older bishops. So, again according to the Catholic Church, you can trace a direct line from them to the last supper, when Jesus himself gave that same "status" to the Apostles.

Now, about "christian" sects and strange churches, mostly found in the american continent, the Catholic Church doesn't recognize them as "churches" or their priests to be priests.
 
paddyree
God - Santa for adults
Jesus - one woman's lie about an affair that got way out of hand

Here he is, trying to spread the good word of god, to save our souls, and teach us to be loving, caring, and friendly, so we can live in peace and harmony, to be united. Even if this was an affair, you have to give him credit for being a really good person.
I think the teachings of jesus should be taught, even if he is not in them.
 
Jesus was simply a wonderful speaker and one of the greatest con-artists of all time and a master of deception. People were more gullible back then, there are plenty of "Jesus" characters around today, and people don't take them seriously at all.

David Koresh could have been "our savior" if he had been alive that long ago. Instead look at how he ended up.
 
superbike81
Jesus was simply a wonderful speaker and one of the greatest con-artists of all time and a master of deception. People were more gullible back then, there are plenty of "Jesus" characters around today, and people don't take them seriously at all.

David Koresh could have been "our savior" if he had been alive that long ago. Instead look at how he ended up.

I hope your not trying to make Jesus look like a bad guy? He was trying to teach people how to live good lives in such a time. And anyone who spreads the message of being a good person, shall be rewarded, no matter who you are, i asked my priest if people from other religions if they gain entry to heaven, and he said, if they have lived a good life, they will. And by good life, i mean folowing the ten commandments to the best of your ability. And not purposely doing them.

Are you jewish by any chance?
Anyway, i have strayed to far into GTplanet. Back to the GT5 forum surface i go.
 
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The Catholic Church considers itself the one and true universal Church with St. Peter as first Pope, and therefore the one that was directly founded by Jesus. That much is true.

That's not to say the catholic hierarchy does not recognize the same dinastical line in all of the major old churches, be them protestants or orthodox. The way the Catholic Church sees them, they are rogue churches in the sense they do not recognize the authority of the Roman Pope. But all their priests have acquired that "status" (I really have difficulty in expressing myself in English when the careful choice of words is needed) from bishops that have themselves become priests from older bishops. So, again according to the Catholic Church, you can trace a direct line from them to the last supper, when Jesus himself gave that same "status" to the Apostles.


What is it that makes the Pope the supreme authority? The bishop of Rome became powerful most likely because Rome was the capital of the empire where Christianity first took hold in. I don't remember what the church says about this.

If all the churches can trace themselves back to Jesus, I don't really see what the difference is.
 
I hope your not trying to make Jesus look like a bad guy? He was trying to teach people how to live good lives in such a time. And anyone who spreads the message of being a good person, shall be rewarded, no matter who you are, i asked my priest if people from other religions if they gain entry to heaven, and he said, if they have lived a good life, they will. And by good life, i mean folowing the ten commandments to the best of your ability. And not purposely doing them.

Are you jewish by any chance?

No, I'm not Jewish, not really anything. You can call me an atheist if you want, but my mind is not completely closed to the idea of a deity. I just need hard evidence to prove to me there is one.

Many of the things Jesus taught were good, but they were also VERY much so something that can only be called COMMON SENSE. Where the con-artist part comes in is the fact that he convinced people that he was the son of a supreme being called God. He did this because he was intelligent enough to know that people (especially in those times) needed a supreme being to guide them and he used that fact to get people to follow him.

So yes, his ideas were good, and still are, but the way that he went about spreading those ideas was deceitful and very dishonest.
 
What is it that makes the Pope the supreme authority? The bishop of Rome became powerful most likely because Rome was the capital of the empire where Christianity first took hold in. I don't remember what the church says about this.

If all the churches can trace themselves back to Jesus, I don't really see what the difference is.

I'm afraid you reached a point where my culture sadly lacks. The first decades and even centuries of christianity are not my area so I fear to be inaccurate (a luxury I don't indulge myself in a thread where a christian's mistake is proof that God doesn't exist and Christ either didn't exist also or was just a cool 2000 year old guy :lol: ).

What I can tell you matter-of-factly is that the Catholic Church regards herself as the one true Church created by Jesus Christ and, after his ascension, led by Peter, the one that would become the first bishop of Rome.

Why is the bishop of Rome the head of the Catholic Church? Well, that's the orthodox problem, they do consider the oldest "churches" (Rome being one of them) to be equal in dignity but they do not accept a "primus inter pares". Anyway, politics played a major part in this first division, and I guess the fact that we had a Western Roman Empire and a Eastern Roman Empire had a major role in what would follow.

Then, many centuries later, the protestant churches. These are basically ex-catholics that for different reasons, some political, some not, parted from the hierarchy that has the bishop of Rome at its top (the Catholic Church). I'm not too sure about what then happened among protestants because they do have a few denominations and I haven't got any idea on what that means, or if it really is important.

As I said, however, among the major and more ancient churches there is this notion that all of them derive, in a unbroken line of succession, from Jesus and the Apostles to their current priests. That's why a priest in Portugal, if a couple of orthodox russians come to him with their own church credentials asking to be married, can marry them. And this marriage will be recognized by the Russian Orthodox Church as if it was done in one of their churches, by one of their priests. And vice-versa.

I think we're going a bit off-topic, and for that I'm sorry, but I guess there was no harm in answering Exorcet about this mostly "christian-only" issue.
 
To be quite honest I don't understand the catholic church. When Jesus was being questioned by Pilot he said that his kingdom was not of this world.
Sin is the anti-happiness of this world. Being a Christian you build up a relationship with God and learn to change your lifestyle.
In my evening prayer, I forgive God for the sins I have committed (mainly bad attitude to situations). I pray that God may strengthen me and help me to become a better person. I don't forgive to a priest etc, in God's eyes we are equal. The way I see it God judges us on out attitude to things. I want to help God strengthen myself through him with my will and effort. I can't understand why people think that God wants us to give donations or confess to a priest in order to by forgiven.
 
paddyree
God - Santa for adults
Jesus - one woman's lie about an affair that got way out of hand

nitrorocks
The second one is pretty messed up

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."
-Luke 23:34 (NLT)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
-Galatians 6:7 (NIV)
 
Second only works if Jesus is God. Which still only works if there is a God.

Of course, let's not be too harsh on Mary, she carried the guy to full term, raised him as a very moral, very holy guy, had high hopes for his woodworking career, and in the end, got to watch him die before his time.


I think we're going a bit off-topic, and for that I'm sorry, but I guess there was no harm in answering Exorcet about this mostly "christian-only" issue.

Some of the Protestant churches separated for theological issues that became political issues. Issues such as the rite of penance and use of tithes (which was an easy way of "buying into Heaven" and part of how the Catholic Church became so rich). Others were for purely political reasons... the Anglican Church, famously, because the King wanted to get a divorce.

Then there are the controversies over the use of graven images and icons, proscribed in the Bible somewhere, but if you're Catholic like me, you'll note the abundance of statues to the Virgin, the saints and every religious figure or angel of import in a Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church as it is now isn't the only authority on Christ. It's simply the biggest and most successful, and the one that managed to either incorporate other early sects or marginalize them.

This is not a reflection of course, of the actual teachings of Christ, but there's a hell of a lot of dogma contained within the Church that's outdated, outmoded and purely the result of personal bias by the men in power who seek to keep the status quo.

Part of this dogma was why Galileo was so persecuted, despite being a devout Catholic, and why Darwin was so afraid to publish his work during his time.

Just ask your Catholic priest about contraception. And if he's okay with condoms, ask him what the Vatican's stand on them are, and why they contend that latex rubber that has finer pores than surgical gloves apparently allows HIV through, wholesale. This is the great ministerial work of the Church in Africa, teaching people to not use condoms. Apparently it's more moral to let your sperm die inside a woman during her infertile period than to let them die inside a sheepskin. Ask him what the only valid reasons are for annulment. Then ask him why there are no women priests. Should be an entertaining afternoon's conversation.
 
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TankAss95
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."
-Luke 23:34 (NLT)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
-Galatians 6:7 (NIV)

A double post with the second one being bible verse quotations... Tank Tank Tank, what ever will we do with you!

Now mods if you see this biblical transgression before you act, with your über modfist, you gotta ask yourself... WWJD? :lol:
 
TankAss95
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."
-Luke 23:34 (NLT)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
-Galatians 6:7 (NIV)

Pretty good lesson to me 👍
 
It's interesting on how most of the atheists on this thread know a lot about Christianity and catholics and such. You guys gave up on it I guess? You were once Christian/Catholic and something happened. God didn't help you or something? I just think its fear.

You mean the fear-mongering the Christians try to foist upon everybody?

Haha. I was raised catholic and frankly I still am but I have been going to a Christian church for about 6-7 years. I still need to officially convert or be baptized. I never have liked the Catholic way that much compared to Christianity because you have to confess, catechism, communion, and it's just way more strict.

So you're telling us that Catholics aren't Christians?

Maybe it's just all the college level writing classes I've done, but I cringe every time I see someone capitalize the word "him" or "he" in the middle of a sentence. Even if i did believe in God I think I would refuse to capitalize a pronoun in mid-sentence. :)

Since the tradition amongst Christians is to capitalize the word God and any pronouns referring to Him (OT: Why "Him"? Why not "Her", or even "It"? Does God have a penis or something?). So it's a sign of respect for a sincerely held belief. Even if one does not happen to share that belief, one should still respect anothers's belief.

And if we were discussing Islam and showed a similar lack of respect they'd be going all jihad on our butts, declaring fatwas and whatnot.
 
So you're telling us that Catholics aren't Christians?

No, they are a sub-genre of Christians, because they do believe in Christ. It's kinda like metal music: there are dozens of sub-genres and classifications.
 
A double post with the second one being bible verse quotations... Tank Tank Tank, what ever will we do with you!

Now mods if you see this biblical transgression before you act, with your über modfist, you gotta ask yourself... WWJD? :lol:

I like how he didn't even bother to fix the quotation mistakes.
 
No, they are a sub-genre of Christians, because they do believe in Christ. It's kinda like metal music: there are dozens of sub-genres and classifications.

You heard it here first people: Christianism is like metal music :sly:

I like how he didn't even bother to fix the quotation mistakes.

There's not a great deal of thought process between copying and pasting, that's why...
 
Heathenpride
Tank Tank Tank, what ever will we do with you!
:nervous:
Heathenpride
Now mods if you see this biblical transgression before you act, with your über modfist, you gotta ask yourself... WWJD? :lol:

If more people asked themselves WWJD, the world would be a far, far, far better place than it is today.
 
Here he is, trying to spread the good word of god, to save our souls, and teach us to be loving, caring, and friendly, so we can live in peace and harmony, to be united. Even if this was an affair, you have to give him credit for being a really good person.
I think the teachings of jesus should be taught, even if he is not in them.

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."
-Luke 23:34 (NLT)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
-Galatians 6:7 (NIV)

I do agree completely Pawel. I don't believe in God but I do think that the base philosophy behind Christianity is something everyone should strive for, it's just a pity that so many so called christians and members of the clergy don't seem able.
I try to live my life well, as you said, loving, caring, friendly etc, so even though I don't believe in God, I should in theory go to heaven if there was such a place.
It just seems strange to me that we still believe in something that was written 2,000 years ago when the people were a lot less educated than they are today. Christians tell us that basically L . Ron Hubbard is talking BS with his little green men stories, but, why is that any less believable than the bible or the Greek, Roman or Egyptian Gods.
Tankass, thanks for the scripture, but, I do know what I'm doing, I can mock God because he supposedly created me with the ability to do this and if I reap what I sow then hopefully I've been good enough in my life to reap quite a good harvest.
 
:nervous:


If more people asked themselves WWJD, the world would be a far, far, far better place than it is today.

There'd be more people drowning after they tried to walk on water. I believe he walked on water, but it was frozen :sly:.
 
paddyree
I do agree completely Pawel. I don't believe in God but I do think that the base philosophy behind Christianity is something everyone should strive for, it's just a pity that so many so called christians and members of the clergy don't seem able.
I try to live my life well, as you said, loving, caring, friendly etc, so even though I don't believe in God, I should in theory go to heaven if there was such a place.
It just seems strange to me that we still believe in something that was written 2,000 years ago when the people were a lot less educated than they are today. Christians tell us that basically L . Ron Hubbard is talking BS with his little green men stories, but, why is that any less believable than the bible or the Greek, Roman or Egyptian Gods.
Tankass, thanks for the scripture, but, I do know what I'm doing, I can mock God because he supposedly created me with the ability to do this and if I reap what I sow then hopefully I've been good enough in my life to reap quite a good harvest.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayings_of_Jesus_on_the_cross

Perhaps you should go and study who exactly you are mocking.

I have been brought up around people who have mocked Jesus. Honestly it makes me really sad after reading about what he went through for us.
And God gave us free will. He gave you the ability to mock him, but that doesn't justify your actions.
 
TankAss95
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayings_of_Jesus_on_the_cross

Perhaps you should go and study who exactly you are mocking.

I have been brought up around people who have mocked Jesus. Honestly it makes me really sad after reading about what he went through for us.
And God gave us free will. He gave you the ability to mock him, but that doesn't justify your actions.

God didn't give me anything, evolution did.

You seem to be under the assumption that I should believe that the things in the bible are true. They have as much truth to me as The Lord of the Rings. Just because something is written down, whether it be now or 2,000 years ago, it doesn't make it true.
I agree that a person called Jesus once existed, but, these supposed great deeds of his are as likely as the tales of Perseus or Hercules.
However, as I have said before, I agree wholeheartedly with the ideals of the original message.
 
Since the tradition amongst Christians is to capitalize the word God and any pronouns referring to Him (OT: Why "Him"? Why not "Her", or even "It"? Does God have a penis or something?). So it's a sign of respect for a sincerely held belief. Even if one does not happen to share that belief, one should still respect anothers's belief.

And if we were discussing Islam and showed a similar lack of respect they'd be going all jihad on our butts, declaring fatwas and whatnot.

Respect is one thing, but disobeying the rules of the English language is another thing altogether.

So if someone hands in a paper to their college professor and they just so happen to mention God in the text as "Him" is it disrespectful for the professor to mark the student down for a grammar error? The professor is only upholding the same rules of the English language for every student. Correct?
 
TankAss95
:nervous:

If more people asked themselves WWJD, the world would be a far, far, far better place than it is today.

I reckon you will be fine this time Tank, just don't do it again :mad: :waggles finger:

Aaaaaaaaaand:

No one picked it up, HAR!!!

What Would JORDAN Do!

:bowdown:

:lol:
 
:lol:

I did not know this acronym before so I did not understand what "WWJD" was supposed to mean. I'd never be able to do the "Jordan" guessing, even with your "mods" reference.

Nice one 👍
 
BobK
Since the tradition amongst Christians is to capitalize the word God and any pronouns referring to Him (OT: Why "Him"? Why not "Her", or even "It"? Does God have a penis or something?). So it's a sign of respect for a sincerely held belief. Even if one does not happen to share that belief, one should still respect anothers's belief.

And if we were discussing Islam and showed a similar lack of respect they'd be going all jihad on our butts, declaring fatwas and whatnot.

In the same way Christians respect the conventions and lifestyles of everyone who disagree with them? Do you want to follow the grammar rules of every sincerely held belief? They'd probably conflict over the same tiny space because they both feel that a certain rule had been promised to them.

And my sarcasm detectors have never been good over the Internet, but that second part was a joke, right?
 
This is going to be my attempt to support the argument for the existance of Jesus. As the old saying goes: "I will use all the brains I can borrow".

First we will hear some vioces from some leading historians:

"There are no substantial doubts about the general course of Jesus' life: when and where he lived, approximately when and where he died, and the sort of thing that he did during his public activity... I shall first offer a list of statements about Jesus that meet two standards: they are almost beyond dispute; and they belong to the framework of his life,and especially of his public career: Jesus was born c. 4BCE, near the time of the death of Herod the Great; he spent his childhood and early adult years in Nazareth, a Galilean village; he was baptised by John the Baptist; he called disciples; he taught in the towns, villages and counrtyside of Galilee (apparently not the cities); he preached 'the kingdom of God'; about the year 30 he went to Jerusalem for Passover; he created a disturbance in the Temple area; he had a final meal with the disciples; he was arrested and interrogated by Jewish authorities, specifically the High Priest; he was executed on the orders of the Roman perfect, Pontius Pilate. We may add here a short list of equally secure facts about the aftermath of Jesus' life: his disciples fled; they saw him (in what sence is not certain) after his death; as a consequence, they believed that he would return to found the kingdom; they formed a community to await his return and sought to win others to faith in him as God's Messiah." - Ed Sanders of Duke University (USA), one of the leading figures in the historical study of Jesus over the last three decades, and a self-confessed agnostic (E. P. Sanders, 'The Historical Figure of Jesus', Penguin Books, 1993, p.11.)

"All this does is render highly implausable any far fetched theories that even Jesus' very existance was a Christian invention. The fact that Jesus existed, that he was crucified under Pontius Pilate (for whatever reason) and that he had a band of followers who continued to support his cause, seems to be part of the bedrock of historical tradition. If nothing else, the non-Christian evidence can provide us with certainty on that score." -Christopher Tucket, University of Oxfprd, author of the Cambridge University textbook on the historical Jesus (Christopher Tuckett, "Sources and Methods", in 'The Cambridge Companion to Jesus', ed. Mark Bockmuehl, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2001, p.124.)

"The mentions of Jesus in ancient historians allay doubt about his historicity. The notices about Jesus in Jewish and pagan writers... - especially those in Josephus, the letter of Sarapion and Tactitus - indicate that in antiquity the historicity of Jesus was taken for granted, and rightly so, as two observations on the above mentioned sources show:
The notices about Jesus are independent of one onother. Three authors from different backgrounds utilize informatioon about Jesus independently: a Jewish aristocrat and historian, a Syrian philosopher, and a Roman statesman and historian.
All three know of the execution of Jesus, but in different ways: Tacitus puts the responsibility on Pontius Pilate, Mara bar Sapapion on the Jewish people, and the Testimonium Flavianum (probably) on a co-operation between the Jewish aristocracy and the Roman governor. The execution was offensive for any worship of Jesus. As a "scandal" it cannot have been invented" - Gerd Thiessen, a leading German New Testament historian (Gerd Theissen and Annette Marz, 'The Historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide', Minneapolis, Fortress Press, 1998, pp.93-94)

From these quotes alone we can see that Bertand Russell was talking in sheer ignorance of the facts, when he wrote in his book 'Why I Am Not a Christian', in which he wrote:
"Historically it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and even if he did we know nothing about him." - (Bernard Russell, 'Why I Am Not a Christian, London, George Allen and Unvin, 1957, p.16.)
 
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