Do you believe in God?

[CodeRedR51]

Sometimes I just think you guys don't want to believe. Maybe it's fear, maybe I'm wrong.

That's your opinion, and I'll disagree with it.

I'm the type of person who likes to see things with my own eyes. Goes for anything really, I don't listen to movie reviews because I want to see the movie and judge it for myself. One person may not like it, but just because he doesn't like it doesn't mean I won't.

You believe in god, but I don't. I want to see him for myself. So until he shows himself, then I'll hold my belief until that day. Chances are that day will never come, and that's fine. I'm perfectly happy with my life the way it is. I can do without people knocking on my door to sell me their beliefs, I'll skip the church channels on TV, and I'll browse threads like this and silently laugh to myself.

Fear? Absolutely not.

 

[Joel]

Absolutely not about fear. I was raised Catholic, and strongly believed in my Catholic faith for the first 15 years of my life. My "journey"to atheism began with my natural curiosity driving me to read up on evolution and do some research. I kept finding things in the church and from reading the bible that didn't make sense to me anymore.

 

[CodeRedR51]

It's like flying pigs.

Do I believe that pigs can fly? Absolutely not. If I said yes, people would say I'm a wacko.

Now if I walked out of my house tomorrow morning and saw a flying pig, well then damn right I would believe they exist. Until then, not gonna happen.

 

[Zenith]

Sometimes I just think you guys don't want to believe. Maybe it's fear, maybe I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

I don't believe in god because I choose to place my faith in something that makes sense to me. Something that uses reason, logic, and evidence.

In my opinion, belief in god is more likely due to fear than not believing.

As an atheist, I place the responsibility of morality and good-heartedness within myself. I don't need the incentive of heaven or the punishment of hell to keep me going through life. I don't have to have a book to reassure me that my life will lead up to something meaningful. I'm secure in knowledge that my life will be meaningful through my accomplishments and experiences.

Beyond this, I also don't put my own faults and the issues of the world off to "god's will", I make meaningful changes. Total freedom with total responsibility.

Of course, most of that stuff near the bottom is my personal experience, as is this thread. However, saying that atheists are afraid of believing in a god is simply backwards.

 

[superbike81]

Sometimes I just think you guys don't want to believe. Maybe it's fear, maybe I'm wrong.

Oh quite the contrary. It is believers who are living in fear. The fear that all believers have but will not admit is that there is a strong possibility that there is no afterlife. People in general find it difficult to accept that when they die it might just be over, everyone wants to live forever and Jesus knew that and used that info to pull off history's greatest con.

I on the other hand have FULLY accepted that when my time is up, it's up. No afterlife, no reincarnation, just dark silence and maybe my rotting flesh will contribute to the growth of a tree. Because I accept this, I live my life in a mental state that no believer will ever understand.

 

[nitrorocks]

Believers don't fear anything except god. I dot fear anything. I take life as it goes. If i die guess what? I die. If I get hit by a car, guess what? The same thing happens. I know I can't control anything, and in the end, my master will be waiting for me. This may sound foolish to you guys

 

[superbike81]

Can you prove your "master" will be waiting for you? Or do you simply have faith he is there?

 

[HP]

Oh quite the contrary. It is believers who are living in fear. The fear that all believers have but will not admit is that there is a strong possibility that there is no afterlife. People in general find it difficult to accept that when they die it might just be over, everyone wants to live forever and Jesus knew that and used that info to pull off history's greatest con.

I on the other hand have FULLY accepted that when my time is up, it's up. No afterlife, no reincarnation, just dark silence and maybe my rotting flesh will contribute to the growth of a tree. Because I accept this, I live my life in a mental state that no believer will ever understand.

True words for mine & precisely what I've said earlier in this thread, albeit in different words. You sir have received the daily Heathenpride + 1 billion 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

Believers don't fear anything except god. I dot fear anything. I take life as it goes. If i die guess what? I die. If I get hit by a car, guess what? The same thing happens. I know I can't control anything, and in the end, my master will be waiting for me. This may sound foolish to you guys

...which is what we've been saying all along. You fear God, and you fear what will happen if you don't keep him happy.

If you're me, or several other people here, you just get on with your life not worrying about whether things you're doing will appease or annoy whatever God you believe in.

 

[Hun200kmh]

The last few posts resemble a sort of "Marty McFly's nobody calls me chicken" game

Fear isn't a believer or atheist thing. In my own family, also among my friends, I have people that fear death, hate hospitals and refuse to go to cemeteries. And people that take the notion of death and its inevitability with great ease and tranquility. And the divide isn't related to the belief in God or lack of it.

In my case, I do in fact embrace the notion of death and I think it is death, in the end, that makes our life so precious and so worth of a "living it to the full" attitude. Time is something you don't stop or rewind, there's only one way in life and that way is forward. Destination, death. No problem.

How does my faith enter this equation? Well, true faith always travels with doubt as companion, so indeed the logical thought happens. "What if ... there's nothing?". Well, in that case I can say that it doesn't matter what I believe in. After I die one of two things happen: a) I don't exist anymore - no existence means no problem; b) I do exist - time for a new adventure I guess.

 

[PeterJB]

The last few posts resemble a sort of "Marty McFly's nobody calls me chicken" game

Fear isn't a believer or atheist thing. In my own family, also among my friends, I have people that fear death, hate hospitals and refuse to go to cemeteries. And people that take the notion of death and its inevitability with great ease and tranquility. And the divide isn't related to the belief in God or lack of it.

In my case, I do in fact embrace the notion of death and I think it is death, in the end, that makes our life so precious and so worth of a "living it to the full" attitude. Time is something you don't stop or rewind, there's only one way in life and that way is forward. Destination, death. No problem.

How does my faith enter this equation? Well, true faith always travels with doubt as companion, so indeed the logical thought happens. "What if ... there's nothing?". Well, in that case I can say that it doesn't matter what I believe in. After I die one of two things happen: a) I don't exist anymore - no existence means no problem; b) I do exist - time for a new adventure I guess.

Couldn't agree more. 👍

 

[superbike81]

I never said believers feared death. I said believers fear the possibility of no afterlife. I (and many others) have already accepted that there is no afterlife so I have a feeling inside me that no believer could understand. It's probably very similar to how I will never understand how you feel.

 

[PeterJB]

but if there is no afterlife, what is there to fear? It's not like you'll be blind, deaf, dumb and paralysed for all eternity. You become nothing, and lose all consciousness.

 

[superbike81]

If they didn't fear the possibility of no afterlife, why would they fabricate some higher power and "paradise-like" place that you go after you die?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Fear has nothing to do with that. Giving a purpose to life might have (from an atheist point of vue, sounds a logical explanation).

Of course, from a "theist" point of vue, the existence of an higher power is no fabrication. The "paradise-like" place might still be.

 

[homeforsummer]

Fear has nothing to do with that. Giving a purpose to life might have (from an atheist point of vue, sounds a logical explanation).

Let's concentrate on that then - I'm inclined to believe that some theists - Christians in particular - fear that life is without purpose, and then we die and there's nothing after.

Personally, I don't see life as having any purpose beyond what you make of it - in which case, I'd much prefer to make the most of this life, rather than banking on there being something better waiting for me after.

That way, if there's something after - score! I've had a great life, and I can enjoy the afterlife. If there isn't - score! I've enjoyed the one, single, purposeless life I've had, and my body can decay in the ground and the cycle of life continues.

I quite like Professor Brian Cox's take on the afterlife anyway. He deems it impossible because of the laws of thermodynamics. Humans are essentially "heat engines" - in order to do work, we require heat energy, and we get that from processing food, and similar.

Once we die, we can no longer process food, so no energy transfer takes place, so we do no work. If no energy is being transferred, then no part of us can live on in the afterlife. If humans have such thing as a soul, the laws of the universe dictate that we'd still need energy in order to power it. Our dead body isn't making that energy, and nobody else is... so there can't be an afterlife.

He sums it up as saying that if he died and found himself in heaven, he'd then have to ask, "well... how do refrigerators work then?!", since fridges operate on a very basic principle of thermodynamics - to remove heat energy from the inside of the fridge, the elements at the back must be hotter than their surroundings, transferring heat away.

If there's an afterlife, then fridges have to be impossible.

Think about that next time you're making a sandwich

 

[huskeR32]

Let me put in my 2c.

.....

Atheists are on the other end. Not believing in God. But who are they to say? As I said there was no real (in my opinion) proof God does exist, there is no proof that there is no God. And sorry atheists, but I think that is really ignorant. What proof do you have that God isn't real? Science? Well several religions accept science, and some even believe that God created science.

What a surprise, another complete misunderstanding of what atheism means.

Atheism doesn't need proof of anything because it's not claiming anything. Look at the picture below:

There's me in the middle of a circle. Let's say that circle represents the world as I see it; a world defined by logic and reason and only containing things I have evidence for.

There are things outside of that circle that I don't believe in. I don't actively make definitive claims that none of these things exist, I just choose not to believe in them without evidence.

Now, are you requiring that I prove that dragons don't exist? No, you're not. Why?

Are you saying I'm ignorant because I don't believe in unicorns? No, you're not. Why?

See what I'm getting at here? You recognize my non-belief in those things as logical, you don't demand that I prove my disbelief (which is a ridiculous demand in any context) and you don't think me ignorant.

But when it comes to god, suddenly everybody wants to play by different rules. I say "I don't believe in god because there's no evidence of god's existence." What claim am I making that needs proof?

Now, if I instead said "I am 100% sure that there is not a god, and I will never, ever believe in one," you could make a somewhat reasonable demand that I prove that statement.

But I didn't say that. Why? Because that's not what atheism is about. The true ignorance in this entire thread is the constant inability of theists to even understand what they're trying to argue against.

 

[BobK]

This is going to be my attempt to support the argument for the existance of Jesus. As the old saying goes: "I will use all the brains I can borrow".

First we will hear some vioces from some leading historiansBiblical scholars:

Fixed that for you.

From these quotes alone we can see that Bertand Russell was talking in sheer ignorance of the facts, when he wrote in his book 'Why I Am Not a Christian', in which he wrote:
"Historically it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and even if he did we know nothing about him." - (Bernard Russell, 'Why I Am Not a Christian, London, George Allen and Unvin, 1957, p.16.)

Actually, what we can see is that three Biblical scholars disagreed with Bertrand Russell which, all things considered, isn't terribly surprising.

This is what really annoys me in this thread. Everyone keeps shouting "no evidence" and even after I spend ages researching and typing stuff into my computer it just gets ignored.

So I researched your claims and guess what, it's still no evidence. Doesn't matter how long it took you to research and type (or cut n paste) stuff into your computer.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Let's concentrate on that then - I'm inclined to believe that some theists - Christians in particular - fear that life is without purpose, and then we die and there's nothing after.

Personally, I don't see life as having any purpose beyond what you make of it - in which case, I'd much prefer to make the most of this life, rather than banking on there being something better waiting for me after.

That way, if there's something after - score! I've had a great life, and I can enjoy the afterlife. If there isn't - score! I've enjoyed the one, single, purposeless life I've had, and my body can decay in the ground and the cycle of life continues.

I quite like Professor Brian Cox's take on the afterlife anyway. He deems it impossible because of the laws of thermodynamics. Humans are essentially "heat engines" - in order to do work, we require heat energy, and we get that from processing food, and similar.

Once we die, we can no longer process food, so no energy transfer takes place, so we do no work. If no energy is being transferred, then no part of us can live on in the afterlife. If humans have such thing as a soul, the laws of the universe dictate that we'd still need energy in order to power it. Our dead body isn't making that energy, and nobody else is... so there can't be an afterlife.

He sums it up as saying that if he died and found himself in heaven, he'd then have to ask, "well... how do refrigerators work then?!", since fridges operate on a very basic principle of thermodynamics - to remove heat energy from the inside of the fridge, the elements at the back must be hotter than their surroundings, transferring heat away.

If there's an afterlife, then fridges have to be impossible.

Think about that next time you're making a sandwich

I think we agree, although you probably misunderstood me. I was exactly stating that the "need for finding a purpose in life" is one of the many possible logical atheist explanations for the fact that some people in this world believe in a Creator and in an after-life. I have heard that often from atheists.

About fridges, sandwiches and souls, in all honesty I think Professor Brian Cox, as intelligent as he may be, is totally missing the point. Is there, for Professor Brian Cox, a relevant difference between a fridge and a human being? The way I see it he thinks we all work the same.

But there's one fundamental difference. Humans have invented fridges. Fridges are unable to invent humans. Creator and Creature, see?


And of course there'll be a whole number of equally smart professors that will explain that the "Mind" and the "spirit" humans have are nothing but enhanced fridges, because it's all in the brain cells and the brain, as everything else including fridges, operate on a very basic principle of thermodynamics.

Yeah, right.

 

[Jawehawk]

I find it amazing that people still believe in the biggest reason for genocide in human history. I respect that people have a right to choose religion as they please, but I have zero respect for any religion.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What a surprise, another complete misunderstanding of what atheism means.

Atheism doesn't need proof of anything because it's not claiming anything. Look at the picture below:

There's me in the middle of a circle. Let's say that circle represents the world as I see it; a world defined by logic and reason and only containing things I have evidence for.

There are things outside of that circle that I don't believe in. I don't actively make definitive claims that none of these things exist, I just choose not to believe in them without evidence.

Now, are you requiring that I prove that dragons don't exist? No, you're not. Why?

Are you saying I'm ignorant because I don't believe in unicorns? No, you're not. Why?

See what I'm getting at here? You recognize my non-belief in those things as logical, you don't demand that I prove my disbelief (which is a ridiculous demand in any context) and you don't think me ignorant.

But when it comes to god, suddenly everybody wants to play by different rules. I say "I don't believe in god because there's no evidence of god's existence." What claim am I making that needs proof?

Now, if I instead said "I am 100% sure that there is not a god, and I will never, ever believe in one," you could make a somewhat reasonable demand that I prove that statement.

But I didn't say that. Why? Because that's not what atheism is about. The true ignorance in this entire thread is the constant inability of theists to even understand what they're trying to argue against.

Sorry for quoting the whole post, but:

 

[Exorcet]

And of course there'll be a whole number of equally smart professors that will explain that the "Mind" and the "spirit" humans have are nothing but enhanced fridges, because it's all in the brain cells and the brain, as everything else including fridges, operate on a very basic principle of thermodynamics.

Yeah, right.

That is what they work on. We're chemistry. Advanced fridges if you will. Where do you see something more than that?

How do stars fit into the creator/creature thing? Stars created everything beyond Hydrogen in the periodic table, and that includes a whole lot of us. Creators?

 

[homeforsummer]

About fridges, sandwiches and souls, in all honesty I think Professor Brian Cox, as intelligent as he may be, is totally missing the point. Is there, for Professor Brian Cox, a relevant difference between a fridge and a human being? The way I see it he thinks we all work the same.

But there's one fundamental difference. Humans have invented fridges. Fridges are unable to invent humans. Creator and Creature, see?

I think unfortunately you've missed the point on his point He was trying to explain that the laws of thermodynamics are unchanging. An afterlife, and therefore the potential for any part of us, no matter how small (for argument's sake, the soul), to go to it, would require some sort of energy transfer to take place.

For any part of us to live, an energy exchange takes place. When we're dead, this doesn't happen - so how can a part of us live on? From what does our soul derive its energy to continue existing?

The fridge example was simply an illustration of another object that relies on thermodynamics to function. His point was that if he found himself in heaven after death, then the concept by which we know fridges work is fundamentally wrong...

Edit: I meant to clarify: He's not saying "humans are like fridges", he's saying "humans work according to the laws of thermodynamics. So do fridges. If heaven is real, then fridges are impossible"

 

[TankAss95]

Fixed that for you.

Actually, what we can see is that three Biblical scholars disagreed with Bertrand Russell which, all things considered, isn't terribly surprising.

So I researched your claims and guess what, it's still no evidence. Doesn't matter how long it took you to research and type (or cut n paste) stuff into your computer.

What?!

Provide evidence for your hypothesis that Jesus didn't exist. Jesus' life is a historical fact just as the fact that the Roman Empire invaded Britain.

 

[Dennisch]

What?!

Provide evidence for your hypothesis that Jesus didn't exist. Jesus' life is a historical fact just as the fact that the Roman Empire invaded Britain.

No it isn't.

 

[TankAss95]

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

 

[Dennisch]

Yes it is.

Please provide evidence about Jesus.

 

[Denur]

I think unfortunately you've missed the point on his point He was trying to explain that the laws of thermodynamics are unchanging. An afterlife, and therefore the potential for any part of us, no matter how small (for argument's sake, the soul), to go to it, would require some sort of energy transfer to take place.

For any part of us to live, an energy exchange takes place. When we're dead, this doesn't happen - so how can a part of us live on? From what does our soul derive its energy to continue existing?

The fridge example was simply an illustration of another object that relies on thermodynamics to function. His point was that if he found himself in heaven after death, then the concept by which we know fridges work is fundamentally wrong...

Edit: I meant to clarify: He's not saying "humans are like fridges", he's saying "humans work according to the laws of thermodynamics. So do fridges. If heaven is real, then fridges are impossible"

If I were a theist, I'd say we get the energy from God Himself.

 

[TankAss95]

Please provide evidence about Jesus.

I don't have a degree in history. I have provided 3 quotes from leading experts in the field.
I don't expect you to provide actual evidence that the Roman Empire invaded Britain, it is a widely accepted fact by mainstream history.
Just as you put your trust in scientists, I put my trust in historians (who mostly are not Christians by the way).
To say that the existence of Jesus isn't a fact, you have to prove me, along with the historians wrong.

 

[Pyle_PMG]

I really need to learn to read. Delete me please.