Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Patrik
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MazdaPrice
I assume you accept the structure of atoms?
I also assume that you have not proved this to yourself. You put trust in scientists, but if you were ever sceptical about the model of atoms you could research it for yourself. I'm sorry but I don't have all the time in the world to read over historical textbooks and such.
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There is that, but then God would have to be a physical presence somewhere in the universe. And he'd also have to eat, to maintain his own energy...
I suppose, you could consider the sun our "God", since the majority of what we're all made of has been created in the sun at some stage. And the sun "eats", as it burns through hydrogen.
This being the case, things like ancient Greek and Roman Gods are more realistic than the Christian one. Since the sun really is life-giving.
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There's a difference between the scientific world around us and historical 'facts'.
I question a lot of the things that have happened throughout history. Somethings we 'know', some things we don't know. Some things we will never know.
I don't believe Cadwaldr or King Arthur was/were factual, but linking back to the example; the Romans invading Britain, I can believe because I have actually seen evidence. I grew up near Chester and have been to the city many times. The artifacts there are astounding and observable.
What happened to the Princes in the Tower? We don't know. We only speculate.
Almost everything we accept as 'fact' about the ending of the War of the Roses, culimation of the Battle of Bosworth and the foundation of the Tudor dynasty was Henry VII propaganda. And William Shakespeare's plays are heavily romanticised and written as many as 150 years after the events passed. Shakespeare was a playwright, not a historian.
It is a good thing to ensure what we accept as being historically accurate is actually so. Learning broadens the mind.
I question a lot of the things that have happened throughout history. Somethings we 'know', some things we don't know. Some things we will never know.
I don't believe Cadwaldr or King Arthur was/were factual, but linking back to the example; the Romans invading Britain, I can believe because I have actually seen evidence. I grew up near Chester and have been to the city many times. The artifacts there are astounding and observable.
What happened to the Princes in the Tower? We don't know. We only speculate.
Almost everything we accept as 'fact' about the ending of the War of the Roses, culimation of the Battle of Bosworth and the foundation of the Tudor dynasty was Henry VII propaganda. And William Shakespeare's plays are heavily romanticised and written as many as 150 years after the events passed. Shakespeare was a playwright, not a historian.
It is a good thing to ensure what we accept as being historically accurate is actually so. Learning broadens the mind.
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- nitrorocks
What about Bethlehem and Jeruselam? There all real and they were in the I bible
CodeRedR51
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Never really considered that. 💡
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1 - On the existence of Jesus -
Again this? I suggest the atheists that are claiming (in a supposedly scientific way) that Jesus THE MAN didn't exist ... do some study on the subject. As far as scientific historical research is concerned, the evidence for the physical existence of Jesus is more than enough.
I won't bother writing more about it because I did exactly that when I was faced with an atheist proclaiming that Jesus didn't exist (based on ZERO or atheist sites with an agenda, which is the same as ZERO anyway) And I published in this thread whatever I managed to find. Not doing it again.
2 - On fridges, humans, the Sun and God -
This exchange gets funny, going around and around in an endless circle. But it is interesting to notice that fridges are to humans what the Sun is to God. Meaning ... (I'll try to be clear now). The fridge is a thing, the human body is a thing. But there's a difference, because a human isn't (only) a body. I get it that the atheists think this is bull:censored: but that's not my concern, I already knew of our disagreement before I stated that the difference between a fridge and a human is more than just the kind of materials they're made. I expect you atheist guys to dissagree, in fact I would be very surprised if you didn't.
Same really applies to the Sun and God. God may be the ultimate source of spiritual energy (if you believe in such load of bull:censored: LOL ) while the Sun is like the fridge, and the human body. A thing.
Again this? I suggest the atheists that are claiming (in a supposedly scientific way) that Jesus THE MAN didn't exist ... do some study on the subject. As far as scientific historical research is concerned, the evidence for the physical existence of Jesus is more than enough.
I won't bother writing more about it because I did exactly that when I was faced with an atheist proclaiming that Jesus didn't exist (based on ZERO or atheist sites with an agenda, which is the same as ZERO anyway) And I published in this thread whatever I managed to find. Not doing it again.
2 - On fridges, humans, the Sun and God -
This exchange gets funny, going around and around in an endless circle. But it is interesting to notice that fridges are to humans what the Sun is to God. Meaning ... (I'll try to be clear now). The fridge is a thing, the human body is a thing. But there's a difference, because a human isn't (only) a body. I get it that the atheists think this is bull:censored: but that's not my concern, I already knew of our disagreement before I stated that the difference between a fridge and a human is more than just the kind of materials they're made. I expect you atheist guys to dissagree, in fact I would be very surprised if you didn't.
Same really applies to the Sun and God. God may be the ultimate source of spiritual energy (if you believe in such load of bull:censored: LOL ) while the Sun is like the fridge, and the human body. A thing.
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A decade or two I would have agreed with you, without a doubt. But now I'm not so sure. There is dark matter to consider, which made the forming of galaxies possible, but only seems to interact with 'our' universe through gravity. And then there is dark energy, the most elusive of all energies we've heard of (is it a form of energy?), but with an incredible influence on all we know (or think to know).
What if God is/uses some kind of dark energy and when we die, we become a form of dark energy/part of Him?
I think the question I'm really asking, is whether dark energy can be said to be part of the universe as we know it.
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You can't say this without backing it up.
There may very well have been a man called Jesus. Today, there are several.
But looking at the bigger picture, that doesn't make one particular fellow a mystic who is responsible for dealing with all the sin in the world. Why do people still go to hell if Jesus absolves us of sin? I'm not a bible scholar so I don't really understand the inconsistencies.
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Everything is "a thing"
Things can be proven to exist. God has no proof beyond the minds of the people that believe he exists. And to me, that means no more existence than anything else you can imagine.Given that its existence can be seen by its effect on other things, I'd say that it is a part of the universe as we know it. Of course, it's dependent on our models of physics being accurate, but scientific theory is better than guessing.
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Hun200kmh
I've never met a historian who has denied the existence of Jesus as a man. As for Jesus to be the Son of God then that is a different matter, but there is evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.
I'll tell you what guys, I'll take a break from this thread and make a singular case for Christianity to the best of my ability. I'll research some stuff and try to give as much evidence as I can and answer some of your questions.
Just give me some time. It's really exhausting arguing in this thread.
CodeRedR51
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dylansan
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Is this because they had evidence for it or just because it's commonly accepted (by the general population) and they haven't questioned it or done much research on it? Also, how often do you meet historians?
It's important to note that science is not a majority vote. The results of experiments are published only if they are accurate and testable, and every piece is reviewed to ensure it's acceptable. I don't know much about historians but I know the good ones have to act like scientists, looking for evidence and proposing hypotheses and theories to explain it. And as far as I know, there hasn't been enough evidence to end the debate on whether the "theory" of Jesus' existence is accurate. I hear more about how some historians have fudged the truth to support their case then actual evidence, but I should look into it more.
Edit: Also, this seems like a bad idea:
Argue one point until some sort of agreement can be reached. If you can't support one minor point adequately, I don't see how you can expect to support an entire argument about all aspects of your belief. I expect that would get quite messy, with many people discussing many points at once.
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What "evidence" outside of writing in the bible proves that Jesus rose from the dead?
Funny thing about history is that almost 100% of ancient history has likely been altered, and even much of modern history. I've been lucky enough to live all over the world and interact on an intellectual level with many different cultures. The Japanese for example are taught many of the small details of World War II much different than what we are taught in American schools. Who is right? Us? Them? People will write "history" the way that best suits them. Nowadays it's a little more difficult because of things like video cameras, cell phone cameras, and high-tech monitoring equipment. Back in Jesus' time, it was up to whomever was writing the "history" to be completely honest about it. You have faith that he rose from the dead, we as a society have ABSOLUTELY ZERO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE SAYING HE DID.
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As far as I know, dark energy doesn't fit our current models of physics and it is only a place holder for our lack of understanding regarding the increasing rate of universe expansion. We can calculate how much there is, but haven't got the foggiest what it really is.
Anyway, because we can see its effect, I can live with calling it being part of our universe.
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Guys, dark energy is a theory, just like many other scientific explanations we have. I'm all for science, but just like the belief in God, widely accepted scientific theories don't hold much more water than the belief in God until we can absolutely prove it exists.
I hold more faith in things like dark energy over "God" though because at least we have some of the world's greatest minds working on proving they exist, instead of just saying "Have faith that God is there"
I hold more faith in things like dark energy over "God" though because at least we have some of the world's greatest minds working on proving they exist, instead of just saying "Have faith that God is there"
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The Big Bang is said to have created the universe and we evolved from Bacteria Jai. A better question would be how would God create himself? I just don't see how if he created the universe who created him?
CodeRedR51
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Nobody ever thinks of that....
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The theists state that God is omnipotent; he is always existing, and has always existed and has always been. He wasn't created, he has just always been so.
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That just doesn't make sense to me.
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Doesn't matter, it's God, they are taught to just blindly believe, they just use the word "faith" to justify their beliefs. Nothing in the religious world is required to make even a little bit of sense. Everything that happens to us is "God's will" which is complete and utter BS. But tell someone that they will get to into paradise by blindly following faith and you will get many many gullible and scared people to follow you.
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And thus ends an important concept known to mankind ever since the days of classical greek philosophy. Thank you superbike81, oh wisest among the wise, now it all became clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
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Of course it's been around for a long time. Did you not read my post earlier? The majority of people in this world are not willing to accept that their existence is over when they die. So people will fabricate and believe anything they can to affirm the belief that they will exist forever.
Aristotle simply shared his belief. Regardless of what other work he did, he had no proof of their being an omnipotent being either, he developed a theory.
Aristotle simply shared his belief. Regardless of what other work he did, he had no proof of their being an omnipotent being either, he developed a theory.
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superbike81
To me it seems like death is the same as the time before you were born. I guess it is since you don't exist at the time but before you were born there was nothing. I imagine that's what death is like. Just nothing. What would the point of living this life be if we have another life which is supposed to be a lot better?
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- nitrorocks
Afterlife is when you have already experienced life and know what it's like. Before you are born you aren't even made yet. You haven't lived before (or experienced life yet) so it wont matter before your born.
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