Do you believe in God?

[NoBloodyName]

You ask me if Heaven and Hell exist and to prove it. Well let me ask you, can you prove Love and Hate exist?

lmfao
I asked you a question and you can't even answer it,then come back and ask me another question?
Seems like you keep avoiding answering questions you have no clue of what you're talking about!

What we know of heaven and hell is intangible as well. Heaven is a place and a mindstate of Love and Goodness, while hell is a place and a mindstate of Hate and suffering. I have seen heavenly places on this earth, and I've seen Hell on earth. i've been to hot barren deserts in the middle east so hellishly hot only 15 minutes outside will sap your energy for the whole day. I've experienced heavenly times in Hawaii when it rains just enough to irrigate the grass and the trees to bright green, while the rest of the days are filled with rainbows or clear blue skies.

So where is this place you call heaven that's full of love and goodness and hell that's full of hate and suffering??
lmfao..the desert is hell?
Are you serious or deluded?
The heaven and hell you describe(on earth) sounds like nothing of what the bible says(which is full of sh#t).
You gotta be making this up dude.
The bible even mentions the "devil" .
That's the funniest sh#t i've seen .
Just check some of this bull$!@# from the bible about hell..
Sounds like something from a science fiction novel.
There's a lot of mentioning this "fiery lake of fire and sulfur".
You say you've been to hell?.
Then show me what this hell looks like!

Romans 2:6-8
"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

Revelation 21:8
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Revelation 20:14
"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

Matthew 25:46
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

John 6:58
"This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

John 6:53
"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power."

Matthew 13:42
They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Revelation 20:13-14
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So you say good for us who believe in God, yet you still laugh at us who believe? What moral standard do you have that allows you to ridicule someone who believes while you do not believe?

I'm laughing at you for believing in crap that does not exist(like hell for eg; ).

So tell me how does this promote slavery???

Dude,you said it yourself,right here..

I will stand on my position that the Bible teaches there is nothing wrong with being a Slave

 

[dxld]

lmfao
I asked you a question and you can't even answer it,then come back and ask me another question?
Seems like you keep avoiding answering questions you have no clue of what you're talking about!

So where is this place you call heaven that's full of love and goodness and hell that's full of hate and suffering??
lmfao..the desert is hell?
Are you serious or deluded?
The heaven and hell you describe(on earth) sounds like nothing of what the bible says(which is full of sh#t).
You gotta be making this up dude.
The bible even mentions the "devil" .
That's the funniest sh#t i've seen .
Just check some of this bull$!@# from the bible about hell..
Sounds like something from a science fiction novel.
There's a lot of mentioning this "fiery lake of fire and sulfur".
You say you've been to hell?.
Then show me what this hell looks like!

Romans 2:6-8
"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

Revelation 21:8
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Revelation 20:14
"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

Matthew 25:46
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

John 6:58
"This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

John 6:53
"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power."

Matthew 13:42
They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Revelation 20:13-14
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.


I'm laughing at you for believing in crap that does not exist(like hell for eg; ).


Dude,you said it yourself,right here..

It is not Sinful to BE a Slave, am I getting through to you??? Being a Slave and mistreating a Slave are two different things. The Sin resides is the ABUSE of SLAVES. the Bible teaches their is nothing sinfully wrong about being a Slave. When the Hebrew Slaves were freed from Egypt wasn't that an Anti-Slavery use perpetrated by the Bible. Am I getting through to you? Let me Say it again, nothing Sinful to BE a Slave, the Sin resides in the ABUSE OF SLAVES.

You tell me there is no heaven or hell, but you give me all these biblical passages that tell of heaven and hell.

Do we now?

Would you like to clarify what you think Love and Hate are? No proof required or anything, just describe what you actually mean by those words.

For me they're merely verbal shortcuts for a range of human behaviours. There is no one thing I would point to and say "that's Love".



The same one that Christians have, I assume. There's quite a lot of stuff in the bible about not tolerating other religions.

(To be fair, most religions have something like this, not just Christianity.)



Ah, good one. Bring up a claim that he never made and ask him to prove it.

He Spoke of the more questions he asked of his religion, the more he failed to understand, so I gave him another question.

 

[Imari]

He Spoke of the more questions he asked of his religion, the more he failed to understand, so I gave him another question.

To help him fail to understand more? What a nice chap you are.

I'm still interested in how you know Love and Hate exist. In terms of having objective reality, they really don't. They're a linguistic convenience, and the definition of Love and Hate is outlined by the language in which you use the word.

I mean, look at the fact that at some point someone usually has to point out that biblical Love does not include sexual love. Both Love and Hate are hugely broad categories that are defined as whatever the people say they're defined as. It's not objective.

 

[G_T_R]

Nope, but i believe in other life forms like aliens, sooo yeah...

 

[Famine]

I'm still interested in how you know Love and Hate exist. In terms of having objective reality, they really don't. They're a linguistic convenience, and the definition of Love and Hate is outlined by the language in which you use the word.

I mean, look at the fact that at some point someone usually has to point out that biblical Love does not include sexual love.

And that Biblical "hate" can mean "love a bit less" if the circumstances make it look like hate or even mild dislike would be barbaric and abhorrent.

 

[NoBloodyName]

He Spoke of the more questions he asked of his religion, the more he failed to understand, so I gave him another question.

Did I even mentioned I have a religion?
Stop making 🤬 up.

 

[BobK]

When the bible describes the Hebrews under slavery in Egypt, they are shown to be suffering under that slavery. Moses demanded the freedom of the Hebrew Slaves, and God Punished the Pharoah for not releasing the Slaves.

You have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence that the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt, don't forget. Not silly things like a list of names some of which sound like they might be Jewish.

 

[dxld]

Did I even mentioned I have a religion?
Stop making 🤬 up.

You were raised in a Christian environment right? A Christian environment that somehow made you hate God?

 

[Carbonox]

One of my friends jokingly says I will go to hell as I am atheist. I always say "Sure, send me a postcard!"

Love can be proved by your feelings towards someone. So can hate. Feelings and emotions are provable as you can see them in plain view. Heaven and hell however is a perception. One persons idea of heaven maybe another individuals view of Hell.

If only everyone saying that was merely joking.

 

[MatskiMonk]

To help him fail to understand more? What a nice chap you are.

I'm still interested in how you know Love and Hate exist. In terms of having objective reality, they really don't. They're a linguistic convenience, and the definition of Love and Hate is outlined by the language in which you use the word.

I mean, look at the fact that at some point someone usually has to point out that biblical Love does not include sexual love. Both Love and Hate are hugely broad categories that are defined as whatever the people say they're defined as. It's not objective.

Love and hate exist in the same fashion has religious belief; in brain chemistry. It's as simple as that.

 

[dxld]

Love and hate exist in the same fashion has religious belief; in brain chemistry. It's as simple as that.

It's said that Love is the most powerful force in the universe, which I believe to be true. Love can exist outside of brain chemistry, like if a loved one passes away his/her body may be gone, but that Love you share with that person Love lasts forever.

 

[Touring Mars]

It's said that Love is the most powerful force in the universe, which I believe to be true. Love can exist outside of brain chemistry, like if a loved one passes away his/her body may be gone, but that Love you share with that person Love lasts forever.

While that is an understandable, commendable or even a beautiful sentiment/reality, it doesn't necessarily follow that the origin/source of love is anything beyond natural, in stark contrast with what many religions might say. That love might be a 'natural' thing... an emergent property... a simple yet beautiful manifestation of consciousness (in turn itself a consequence of evolution, chemistry, physics etc.) is a possibility seemingly precluded by the somewhat blinkered view that 'God done it'.

 

[NoBloodyName]

You were raised in a Christian environment right? A Christian environment that somehow made you hate God?

Now you're making assumptions..good one(shakes head).
Like I said,you make 🤬 up as you go along.

 

[LeMansAid]

Now you're making assumptions..good one(shakes head).
Like I said,you make 🤬 up as you go along.

There's been plenty of stupid stuff written in this thread, and dxld may well be a culprit. However, your posts have the ugliest countenance I've come across so far.

I'm not surprised that assumptions were made.

 

[NoBloodyName]

There's been plenty of stupid stuff written in this thread, and dxld may well be a culprit. However, your posts have the ugliest countenance I've come across so far.

I'm not surprised that assumptions were made.

It's my opinion mate,and if you don't like it too bad.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's my opinion mate,and if you don't like it too bad.

I don't think your opinion is so much the issue, as your attitude to others opinions.

 

[dxld]

While that is an understandable, commendable or even a beautiful sentiment/reality, it doesn't necessarily follow that the origin/source of love is anything beyond natural, in stark contrast with what many religions might say. That love might be a 'natural' thing... an emergent property... a simple yet beautiful manifestation of consciousness (in turn itself a consequence of evolution, chemistry, physics etc.) is a possibility seemingly precluded by the somewhat blinkered view that 'God done it'.

Love existed before we were born, Love was the reason we were born. So could not it be possible that Love existed before the Universe was created?

 

[Famine]

Love was the reason we were born.

Tell that to Joseph Fritzl's kids.

Or any child born as a result of any other rape.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Love existed before we were born, Love was the reason we were born. So could not it be possible that Love existed before the Universe was created?

No, not really. Our brain rewards us for finding a suitable mate by releasing a variety of chemicals (adrenaline, dopamine, seratonin, +others). We call it love, and it most definitely exists, but it is not a force and once you die, and your brain stops functioning no more chemicals are produced and the electrical signals that trigger whatever memories you had cease to exist too.

I'm not ragging on you, and I like the romantic notion of love, I am very much under the influence of that curse emotion at the moment. 'Love' can be shown in neuro-science with brain scans (and stuff), there is an explanation for it.

As I've indicated previously in this thread, my standpoint is that "religious belief" exists in a similar way. Our natural tendency towards love is in our genes, and I believe there is a natural tendency towards belief in a higher power too. Being in love, and experiencing spiritual experiences even release some of the same chemicals in the brain.

Does this make the bible real? No, of course not. Does it make peoples 'belief' real, yes of course it does. Does it mean there is no 'creator' of sorts, not really. As I've said before, the sooner we separate out the various aspects of "god", and stop arguing about religious texts the better!

 

[Touring Mars]

could not it be possible that Love existed before the Universe was created?

Good luck testing that hypothesis.

 

[BobK]

It's said that Love is the most powerful force in the universe, which I believe to be true.

It is also said that a half-human half-ape creature inhabits the Himalayas. It's said a prehistoric large creature inhabits Loch Ness in Scotland. It's said the earth is flat. Etc, etc. Just because something is repeated a lot doesn't make it true. This seems to be a point you still haven't grasped.

Love can exist outside of brain chemistry, like if a loved one passes away his/her body may be gone, but that Love you share with that person Love lasts forever.

If they're dead you're no longer sharing love. Sure you still love them, but that's because of what's happening in your own brain chemistry. When you're both dead, the love is no more.

As for love existing before the universe was created, that's just plain silly.

Oh, and you still have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence that the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt, don't forget. Not silly things like a list of names some of which sound like they might be Jewish.

 

[LeMansAid]

It's my opinion mate,and if you don't like it too bad.

I just have one question: Did you pray to God when you and your daughters, Mercedes and Chardonnay, were in the midst of Cyclone Shazza?

And yes, you can chalk up another assumption....... mate.

 

[PletdeKoe]

The question we should ask is:

What are you getting out of believing in God or whatever and how is that working out for you?

Then look at your last posts and think again.

 

[Duke]

Love existed before we were born

Provide evidence for your assertion.

Love was the reason we were born.

Provide evidence for your assertion.

So could not it be possible that Love existed before the Universe was created?

It is possible. However, mere possibility is not direct grounds for belief, or else you need to - quite literally, and quite insanely - have to believe everything. If the possibility of something's existence is the criteria for belief in it, then you can't say you disbelieve anything, because anything might possibly exist.

 

[LeMansAid]

The question we should ask is:

What are you getting out of believing in God or whatever and how is that working out for you?

Then look at your last posts and think again.

You might want to make it clear who your comment is directed at.

 

[Mark T]

Love existed before we were born, Love was the reason we were born. So could not it be possible that Love existed before the Universe was created?

Well, love could have existed before our universe expanded into life if we assume that our universe is constantly in a state of contraction/expansion. There may have been an infinite number of random universes and some of those may have developed life and a biological system which we could interpret as love.

However, since their is no evidence for the above we have to assume that love didn't exist before our universe came into being. We have to follow the evidence.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-consciousness-universal
An interesting article concerning panpsychism, universal consciousness, and the nature of subjective experience.

http://www.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00017/full

A call from a number of scientists for an open, informed study of parapsychological topics, and related mysteries of consciousness.

 

[BobK]

You may wish to put that in the paranormal thread. This is the God thread.

 

[Danoff]

You may wish to put that in the paranormal thread. This is the God thread.

Like there's a difference.

 

[Dotini]

I didn't know there even was a paranormal thread. Even so, I agree that the religious experience is mixed up with the UFO experience is mixed up with the paranormal experience. The common denominator (and underlying mystery) is altered states of consciousness. Which makes informed discussion of any of these topics difficult unless consciousness itself is integrated into discussion.