Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Patrik
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Yes, I'm not particularly fond of false assumptions.
No, the image doesn't exactly contain the same kind of false assumptions. In fact, what it contains is some cold hard reality about how harmful religion can be to completely normal people. Something's definitely wrong when the average religious person is talking about atheists and a 12 gauge in the same sentence.
What exactly makes atheists more distrusted than, say, rapists? Is it the fact they're stereotyped as angry? No, not quite. It's because they pose a clear and obvious threat to religious oppression. Those people have become immune to the fairytales that some still try to brainwash their kids with, and the number of them keeps on growing thanks to education and the internet.
Speaking of false assumptions on Reddit, let me tell you a little story. You see, there's another sub aside from r/atheism that I like to visit quite a lot. Coincidentally, it's also one of the most hated subs on the site. And as a further coincidence, it covers a lifestyle that directly contradicts the religious way of life. In fact, it's quite a taboo subject in public discussion. However, I probably did it a small favor by starting a GTP thread about it not too long ago.
The reason it's so hated is because outsiders don't actually read through it properly. They simply cherry pick the worst-looking links they can find and share them all over the site to get more people to hate the sub without bothering to check if things really are as bad as the original poster makes them appear. But as a person who actually goes there and reads most of the new links, I can confirm things are completely different. The people in there are actually quite nice and even support the lifestyle of other people whose viewpoints don't necessarily agree with theirs.
Long story short, the haters of the sub can be easily categorized into two groups. One I talked about already - the ones who don't bother checking out the place and resort to cherry-picking. The other group is the close-minded bigots who think everyone should be like them. Religious people are much more likely to belong to this second group than atheists, as a matter of fact.
I present to you, r/childfree.
Have fun, unless you identify yourself as a member of one of those groups. (I thankfully doubt it)
Moral of the story? Whether it's atheism or any other "unpopular" way of life, it's not as bad as the religious want to make it look like.
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- Dagger31198
My personal life.
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Never knew about that sub, definitely gonna spend some time there 👍
I'm currently in a relationship with a girl who shares my desire to never have children, and it's interesting how people react to that. I'm 29, and for the most part, people react to me by assuming I'll grow out of it - "Oh, you're still just young and enjoying your freedom, you'll have kids someday," or something to that effect.
My girlfriend, of course, is subjected to judgment that's a little less subtle, thanks to her gender. She's 32, which elicits a lot of "Oh, you'd better hurry and find a man and have kids - time's running out for you!" Not usually quite that blunt, of course, but it's always pretty easily inferred.
The reactions I get are mildly insulting, but also easy to just laugh off, as such statements don't objectify me, and paint me as a tool failing to live up to its purpose. The reactions she gets, on the other hand, are pretty unconscionable. It's also undeniable that many people come to view women in such degrading ways because of religious dogmas. So @Noob616, sometimes, atheist anger is just a little bit more than a "circle jerk" - it's a wish to rid the world of it's most prevalent source of narrow-minded bigotry and self-righteous, presumptive superiority.
mister dog
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For those who talk about how bad religion is...you should look up what man was BEFORE religion.
If a human wants to believe in God, he HAS to LOOK for Him.
He has to have that need to search for something greater than himself.
For the wise, who can actually imagine, speculate and philosophize, there are signs everywhere.
Imo, an atheist is nothing more than a dictionary. He understands the world around him like a robot.
There is no room for argument with such, as they arnt open to anything they cant physically see or feel.
they are VERY open to scientific advances, even if they havent experienced the phenomenon themselves.
All it takes for such a person to change sides is "Doctor so and so in some part of the world discovered today that so and so is true"
Their minds are rigid like the medievals who claimed the world was flat. And would adamantly defend that observation with harsh penalties. Until one day...
this is human nature though. youll find close minded extremists in all societies.
Problem is, What most understand about religion is based on media and corruption. It is not the true face of religion.
If a human wants to believe in God, he HAS to LOOK for Him.
He has to have that need to search for something greater than himself.
For the wise, who can actually imagine, speculate and philosophize, there are signs everywhere.
Imo, an atheist is nothing more than a dictionary. He understands the world around him like a robot.
There is no room for argument with such, as they arnt open to anything they cant physically see or feel.
they are VERY open to scientific advances, even if they havent experienced the phenomenon themselves.
All it takes for such a person to change sides is "Doctor so and so in some part of the world discovered today that so and so is true"
Their minds are rigid like the medievals who claimed the world was flat. And would adamantly defend that observation with harsh penalties. Until one day...
this is human nature though. youll find close minded extremists in all societies.
Problem is, What most understand about religion is based on media and corruption. It is not the true face of religion.
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Strange you would say that. Although no one ever thought the world was flat, many thought it was the center of the solar system and the universe. They would adamantly defend that observation with harsh penalties.
I think you have it mixed up. In my mind Theists are rigid robots and Atheists have an open mind and are receptive to new ideas.
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Are there? Please share with us.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You say later on that most understanding of religion is based on media and corruption. Where is your information on atheism coming from? Because it's not correct.
Atheists can be described the way you have, just as theists can be described as "not open to anything not written in their holy texts". It's a massive oversimplification in order to make the other side look bad, and it's only accurate in the broadest sense.
Any atheist who accepts random news article about some discovery by Doctor So-and-so without looking into it further themselves is an idiot. But then again, theists would never accept the word of some guys dead for thousands of years on how they're supposed to live their lives.
There's people all over that will believe whatever they're told. It's not an theist/atheist thing.
Ah, abuse by comparison to flat-earthers. Nice.
Hooray! It's not a theist/atheist thing, it's a people thing. Some people are just wacky. Attributing that to atheism is not correct, any more than calling all theists religious nutjobs is correct just because a few of them detonate themselves in the name of God. There's plenty of atheist out there exploding themselves too.
So why don't you educate us, instead of calling us closed-minded flat earthers? Or are you so sure that all atheists are closed minded that you won't even try?
That would be hilariously ironic.
Scaff
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Citation required.
And these signs are....?
And you know they relate to god(s) how............?
Total and utter nonsense.
As a statement that is so far from correct that almost laughable (unless you are describing idiots), firstly you seem to be mixing up atheists with scientists, the two do not automatically go hand in hand. Secondly no one who looks to science blindly accepts the word of anyone, that's exactly why things like the scientific method and peer review exist. Blindly accepting something simply because its been written down by someone is not a trait of science at all, it is ironically a trait of theists however.
Nope, once again your describing theists. You may want to look at the case of teh church vs Galileo as an example.
Close minded is most certainly not how science could be described, oddly enough however it is rather apt for large amounts of theists. as an example do you entertain the possibility that either your god doesn't exist or that other gods could exist (given that in the most common religions at present that would be to go against doctrine)?
All science does is ask for evidence (to a set standard)
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If you mean that atheists aren't willing to accept as true any claim that cannot be substantiated by evidence, then you are correct. As such, that would explain the openness to science, since reliance on evidence is the very bedrock of science itself.
I'm not seeing how atheist's "minds are rigid" and how there can be "no room for argument with such" while at the same time "all it takes for such a person to change sides is (evidence)". That's a direct contradiction. Atheists and theists alike who accept the value of scientific evidence are always open to persuasion, and therefore they are the very opposite of what you are suggesting e.g. close-minded. On the contrary, not being open to evidence and holding on to provably wrong concepts is the definition of close-mindedness.
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ok, im not going to pick on every little line and definitions in your responses.
heres a broad vague answer to whoever quoted me.
what were humans before religion? history can answer that. Your modern science, society and philosophy has deep roots in religion.
What signs are around you? YOU have to look for them. For some it can be the birth of a child, for others it can be the existance of a tree in his backyard. This is not something one can figure out with qualitative or quantative analysis.
If it were so....science.
I say atheists are rigid because they talk based on definitions.
This nature prevents them from arguing in a real philosophical manner.
What is the meaning of life?
For an atheist, there is no meaning. Life is a random occurence.
It came into being without meaning, and will extinguish without meaning.
Its not the same for a "religious" person. There is a huge difference there.
...And as far as his subject goes, the arguments are always circular and never ending.
So it gets boring and moot.
NOONE can prove to you God exists.
Youll have to find Him for yourself.
heres a broad vague answer to whoever quoted me.
what were humans before religion? history can answer that. Your modern science, society and philosophy has deep roots in religion.
What signs are around you? YOU have to look for them. For some it can be the birth of a child, for others it can be the existance of a tree in his backyard. This is not something one can figure out with qualitative or quantative analysis.
If it were so....science.
I say atheists are rigid because they talk based on definitions.
This nature prevents them from arguing in a real philosophical manner.
What is the meaning of life?
For an atheist, there is no meaning. Life is a random occurence.
It came into being without meaning, and will extinguish without meaning.
Its not the same for a "religious" person. There is a huge difference there.
...And as far as his subject goes, the arguments are always circular and never ending.
So it gets boring and moot.
NOONE can prove to you God exists.
Youll have to find Him for yourself.
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The way I view people:
Atheist: I'll believe it when somebody shows it to me
Scientist: I'll believe it if I can test it
Theist: That sounds good, I'll believe that
It does seem to me though, that it's only some actual scientists* and theists that are actively looking for 'answers' to the questions of life, the universe and all that stuff.
*plenty of people bang on about scientific method etc. but once they finish GCSE Science they just go through their lives simply accepting what is around them, waiting for other people to give them new knowledge - I don;t see that being so different to many casual 'believers'.
Atheist: I'll believe it when somebody shows it to me
Scientist: I'll believe it if I can test it
Theist: That sounds good, I'll believe that
It does seem to me though, that it's only some actual scientists* and theists that are actively looking for 'answers' to the questions of life, the universe and all that stuff.
*plenty of people bang on about scientific method etc. but once they finish GCSE Science they just go through their lives simply accepting what is around them, waiting for other people to give them new knowledge - I don;t see that being so different to many casual 'believers'.
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Openly giving a vague and evasive answer, stormbringer. Nice.
Please state:
Why life must a meaning at all
What it is to you
What humans were before religion
Why your religion is more correct than thousands of other mythological prophecies
Why philosophy, a science with plenty of applications of logic, justifies unprovable claims
And why you openly contribute to discussion to which you purposefully give vague answers, and do not attempt to think critically.
Please state:
Why life must a meaning at all
What it is to you
What humans were before religion
Why your religion is more correct than thousands of other mythological prophecies
Why philosophy, a science with plenty of applications of logic, justifies unprovable claims
And why you openly contribute to discussion to which you purposefully give vague answers, and do not attempt to think critically.
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You brought it up, you answer it.
I'm not sure that there was a time when humans didn't ascribe supernatural explanations to things they didn't understand - our very earliest recorded histories all include some belief or other - so I'd love to find out what humanity was like before religion.
Science's only religious root is in not being satisfied with the stock religious answers to questions and setting out to find out itself.
Then you've not read anything posted by the more prominent GTPlanet atheists in this forum.
Uhh, no. Your two sentences don't agree and your first one is wrong.
Since God is nonfalsifiable.
Nothing else that exists is nonfalsifiable. Why does this ONE deity - and not any one of the thousands of others - get a free pass?
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No, you answer it. You made the statement.
How is it that everyone can have an apparently unique experience, yet somehow they know that they're all linked to the same deity. I mean, if they're all unique then how does one come to the conclusion that they're various aspects of one God?
In what manner is a real philosophical argument conducted?
Oh, you are so wrong. SO wrong. I mean, how do you even come into the discussion believing rubbish like this?
An atheist's life has any meaning he or she chooses to give it.
Good one. It's like telling a child that there is a treasure map hidden somewhere in the house. After they've spent a week looking and are rightly skeptical that you're telling the truth, is an appropriate answer to say "you're just not looking hard enough"? Is that really helpful?
Normal children would say "well, I made an effort and I found nothing. If it turns up then cool, but unless someone else has any bright ideas I'm not going to waste more time on this. I don't even really know if there is a treasure map or not, it's just something my Dad said and he says some pretty wacky stuff".
If you're playing the part of the parent, you can hardly blame the child for giving up. It's the rational thing to do. If you've got some reason why they should believe the story of the treasure map, or maybe some advice on treasure map hunting technique, or even a story about how you found a treasure map in your house when you were a boy to get them motivated, then any of that stuff would help.
Just telling someone "look harder" is about an useful as a slap in the face with a wet fish. Obviously people who haven't found God are doing it wrong, so they're going to need some help.
Scaff
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So you have no source for that claim then.
How exactly does tree prove god? As in your god, why does it not prove other gods? You want a philosophical discussion then answer that.
More nonsense, I asked you (and you didn't answer)....
"...do you entertain the possibility that either your god doesn't exist or that other gods could exist (given that in the most common religions at present that would be to go against doctrine)?"
....a very philosophical question, yet one you have not engaged in.
You seriously don't have a clue what you are on about and I would appreciate it if you stopped assigning positions to entire groups of people that they don't have.
Nice attempt at an out, yet you complain that its atheists that are close minded and unwilling to discuss. Rather ironic.
which can also be said for every god ever claimed to exist, yet you will not discuss that.
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By nature, us humans do not seek God!
Psalms 53: 2-4
2 "God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God."
3" Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
4 "Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God."
Rom. 3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
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As opposed to making up the meaning of words as we go along?
Guilty as charged, your honour.
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Forms of religion have, as far as we can gather from, y'know, science, existed pretty much as long as man has existed. There is no "before religion", unless you're speaking of a time before human beings.
Of course, there hasn't always been a regimented, indoctrinating, secular religious structure like we get today - the kind that causes people to have wars with those on the other side of the world over differences in their beliefs, for example - so arguably the religion of early man, worshiping gods of the sun or the weather and recording it all in petroglyphs, was arguably a better state of affairs.
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Finding God is alot like finding love. You can attempt to describe it, tell someone what love is, definitions, quote the first person to ever fall in love, point out the scientific origin of love and how to fall in love and whatnot.....
Do you think a person whose never fallen in love will be able to understand you?
ultimately, Love has a different meaning to everyone. But once you find love, youll know what it is.
If you dont understand the simple point im trying to make here, you cant even begin to understand God, Religion or Philosophy.
Its "blind" faith.
Do you think a person whose never fallen in love will be able to understand you?
ultimately, Love has a different meaning to everyone. But once you find love, youll know what it is.
If you dont understand the simple point im trying to make here, you cant even begin to understand God, Religion or Philosophy.
Its "blind" faith.
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Yep. Making "love" a poor analogy - especially since you can explain it completely with the accumulated scientific knowledge we have. And even generate it.
Love isn't nonfalsifiable.
king ford III
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The only reason one would rebel at the concept of God must be because you are not willing to be subject to God.
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