Do you believe in God?

[Imari]

http://www.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00017/full

A call from a number of scientists for an open, informed study of parapsychological topics, and related mysteries of consciousness.

From the article:

Contrary to the negative impression given by some critics, we would like to stress the following:
1) Research on parapsychological phenomena (psi) is being carried out in various accredited universities and research centers throughout the world by academics in different disciplines trained in the scientific method (e.g., circa 80 Ph.D.s have been awarded in psi-related topics in the UK in recent years).

The money goes where what's trendy is. This has been the case for years, and it's annoying. If you wanted to guarantee funding in the last 5 years, just work "environment" or "climate change" into your study somewhere.

It's nothing to do with psi though, it's the same with any scientific field that isn't the flavour of the month. As noted, there are people studying this. Probably not heaps, probably because there's no particular evidence that there are amazing benefits to be had by investing significant money in it. But people are picking away, and if something is there they'll eventually find it.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Yes, as the creator of all things living and non-living and no, when it comes to religious gods. Sometimes I believe that god can be vengeful, but the deity doesn't burn houses down or strike an earthquake in the Philippines. It's just a natural disaster to me.

 

[doctorrg]

I didn't know there even was a paranormal thread. Even so, I agree that the religious experience is mixed up with the UFO experience is mixed up with the paranormal experience. The common denominator (and underlying mystery) is altered states of consciousness. Which makes informed discussion of any of these topics difficult unless consciousness itself is integrated into discussion.

What do you mean by "altered" here? Anything that wouldn't be a natural part of consciousness? Or something that is a natural part of consciousness, but is somehow attributed as being "different"?

 

[Dotini]

What do you mean by "altered" here? Anything that wouldn't be a natural part of consciousness? Or something that is a natural part of consciousness, but is somehow attributed as being "different"?

Good question.

By altered states of consciousness, I mean any of the following:
- a deep meditative state induced by controlled, usually yogic, breathing practices.
- a very relaxed state induced by other means such as dancing, drumming, singing, chanting or other rhythmic or musical means, or other auditory or visual means. Prayer, poetry, hypnosis and exceptionally good sermons or sales pitches might fit here.
- dreaming
- state of mind induced by extreme emotions or glandular conditions, sometimes associated with stages of youth.
- an unusual state of mind induced by fasting, cold, heat or isolation.
- a variety of states of mind induced by drugs such as DMT, ayahuasca, LSD and so forth. Alcohol fits here, but badly.
- a state induced by controlled electromagnetic means, ranging from electrodes attached to the body to external apparatus
- alteration of mind due to naturally occurring magnetic fields, radiation, vibration or resonance effects.
- a mental state incurred from an electrical shock or lightning strike.
- alteration of mind due to a blow to the head or other head wound.
- hypoxia by altitude, centrifuge, hanging, etc.

 

[doctorrg]

Good question.

By altered states of consciousness, I mean any of the following:
- a deep meditative state induced by controlled, usually yogic, breathing practices.
- a very relaxed state induced by other means such as dancing, drumming, singing, chanting or other rhythmic or musical means, or other auditory or visual means. Prayer, poetry, hypnosis and exceptionally good sermons or sales pitches might fit here.
- dreaming
- state of mind induced by extreme emotions or glandular conditions, sometimes associated with stages of youth.
- an unusual state of mind induced by fasting, cold, heat or isolation.
- a variety of states of mind induced by drugs such as DMT, ayahuasca, LSD and so forth. Alcohol fits here, but badly.
- a state induced by controlled electromagnetic means, ranging from electrodes attached to the body to external apparatus
- alteration of mind due to naturally occurring magnetic fields, radiation, vibration or resonance effects.
- a mental state incurred from an electrical shock or lightning strike.
- alteration of mind due to a blow to the head or other head wound.
- hypoxia by altitude, centrifuge, hanging, etc.

Ok, so it does include entirely natural states of consciousness, even states that may be prevalent in certain individuals, but are different from the "common" state of consciousness of "common" modern man. Thanks for clarifying, just wanting to make sure I fully understood what you were saying.

Ignoring UFOs, and the paranormal here (as I, personally, do not like to mix these up), I'd agree that religious experience (not to be confused with rationalizations concerning the religious experience) lies within an altered state of consciousness. I equally agree that this needs to be considered in any discussion concerning the topic. Most importantly, it needs to be considered in any discussion about God, and it needs to be understood when discussing God with a "believer" that while a "believer" may well only talk about the rationalizations, these aren't actually all that relevant, what is relevant is exactly the fact that there is an altered state of consciousness which is as real as it can get. Whatever the religious experience is, it is real. Declaring some rationalization of it as "nonsense" doesn't really change a thing, it is still just as real, because it actually is. To me, that is God, and that is what is defended so vehemently. Not some abstract notion of some deity with whatever attributes, but a very real human feeling, a feeling that is so deep, that it is most often compared with love. In fact, I think it is very similar to love, though it may be much less specific.

Now, what exactly causes this particular human emotion, I'm not entirely sure, but I wouldn't ever doubt its existence.

 

[Liquid]

Yes, as the creator of all things living and non-living and no, when it comes to religious gods. Sometimes I believe that god can be vengeful, but the deity doesn't burn houses down or strike an earthquake in the Philippines. It's just a natural disaster to me.

But surely he is also responsible for your mentioned natural disasters.

By your own admission, god is the creator of all things living and non-living. How do you differentiate between what he is responsible for and not responsible for, and, if you explain that point, why isn't he responsible for the things you say he isn't?

 

[turismoslayer]

Wow. This thread exists, because of god or God? Lol. But seriously, I do believe in, God. No vote on poll though. Things do exist without God. With god sure. God? Of course. I wouldn't say nothing exists without god or God. Jesus saves.

 

[Liquid]

Jesus saves.

Only in Grand Theft Auto 2.

 

[turismoslayer]

Only in Grand Theft Auto 2.

Lol! Only 2? He saved me several times in III and Vice City. That's where I left off. I used the Jesus saves code often. :-)

 

[FiLaM1989]

But surely he is also responsible for your mentioned natural disasters.

By your own admission, god is the creator of all things living and non-living. How do you differentiate between what he is responsible for and not responsible for, and, if you explain that point, why isn't he responsible for the things you say he isn't?

Because the creator made us this way. What else is new? Something is out there created this whole universe we're living in. If this "biblical god" is real, then why doesn't the lord attacks the politicians? No, the deity doesn't do that because that book we were reading in church and at home, was written by men in robes during the years of the Roman empire. *sighs* I don't see god as the bearded guy with long white hair to strike lightning to burn a house down. Natural disasters and other incidents are done by humans, environmentally and physically. Take that fracking in Colorado, USA or the riots in Sweden for example. We did these things ourselves and they're surely not an act of god. That's why I can't vote on this.

 

[Liquid]

"Because the creator made us this way" is the equivalent of shouting "Look over there!", pointing in a random direction and closing your eyes.

Baseless, lacking any credibility and indeed creativity. Sure, god doesn't interfere with politicians or other generic things you couldn't be arsed to list. But he used to, allegedly. But not in this day and age. Stepping in to resolve the Irish famine or stopping the Holocaust is something you might imagine god doing if he was to maintain his own set precedence with the Israelites or Methusela.

Also, suggesting that natural disasters are caused by humans is also pretty unfounded and equally and coincidentally ludicrous, given that a British politician claimed yesterday that the recent floods and bad weather were linked to our Government legalizing gay marriage.

 

[Imari]

Natural disasters and other incidents are done by humans, environmentally and physically.

I see. Would you care to explain how the natural disasters that occurred before humans existed were caused by humans? I'm pretty sure there have been hurricanes for a lot longer than there have been homo sapiens.

 

[FiLaM1989]

I see. Would you care to explain how the natural disasters that occurred before humans existed were caused by humans? I'm pretty sure there have been hurricanes for a lot longer than there have been homo sapiens.

Oh yes and there were dinosaurs causing these acts of rampage. Then the meteors came out... *sighs* to be honest, I know you're really sure there are disasters long before we came into existence. I don't know how humans act so stupid or something. Are we really like this every day? So tell me, how humans kill, steal, lie, cheat, get uneducated and came in jumping on the beds all night? Are we doing this for god? Hehehe...

"Because the creator made us this way" is the equivalent of shouting "Look over there!", pointing in a random direction and closing your eyes.

Baseless, lacking any credibility and indeed creativity. Sure, god doesn't interfere with politicians or other generic things you couldn't be arsed to list. But he used to, allegedly. But not in this day and age. Stepping in to resolve the Irish famine or stopping the Holocaust is something you might imagine god doing if he was to maintain his own set precedence with the Israelites or Methusela.

Also, suggesting that natural disasters are caused by humans is also pretty unfounded and equally and coincidentally ludicrous, given that a British politician claimed yesterday that the recent floods and bad weather were linked to our Government legalizing gay marriage.

I'm not that smart, really. I don't believe what a deity or a human does this and that. It's just that I disagree with all organized religions amd cults. Yeah, natural disasters. Sure, "global warming" is man-made. How did corporate men in suits come up with that? What about typhoons? Is it man-made, is it by god or is it by a flying spaghetti monster? Ooo... scary. Blah. Okay, I can't debate much. Why don't you tell me how god is responsible for the Tohoku earthquake and the Typhoon Haiyan?

In all seriousness, I can't come up with the answers. Sorry.

 

[Imari]

Oh yes and there were dinosaurs causing these acts of rampage. Then the meteors came out... *sighs* to be honest, I know you're really sure there are disasters long before we came into existence. I don't know how humans act so stupid or something. Are we really like this every day? So tell me, how humans kill, steal, lie, cheat, get uneducated and came in jumping on the beds all night? Are we doing this for god? Hehehe...

I'm not sure I understand any of this. Are you being facetious or is this a legitimate attempt at an explanation of natural disasters and you just happen to get sidetracked into "humans kill, steal, lie, cheat, get uneducated and came in jumping on the beds all night"?

You claimed that natural disasters were done by humans.
Natural disasters can and have happened without humans on the planet.
You mention that dinosaurs caused "these acts of rampage", by which I must assume you mean natural disasters.
Do you then mean that natural disasters are all caused by living beings?

If dinosaurs are capable of creating natural disasters, why should it be humans specifically that create the current natural disasters? Why not say, beavers? Or frogs?

Why don't you tell me how god is responsible for the Tohoku earthquake and the Typhoon Haiyan?

Because if he created the world and everything in it, he inherits responsibility for everything that happens because of that creation. He created a world that generates large earthquakes and typhoons with regularity.

If I'm an engineer and I design a bridge, I inherit responsibility for everything that happens to that bridge consequent to my design. If it falls over in a light breeze, that's because of something I did (or didn't) do. If it periodically drops beams on people's heads, killing them, that's because of something I did (or didn't) do.

I don't see how creating a world that randomly throws disasters at people is different from a bridge that randomly drops beams on people.

 

[MatskiMonk]

If I'm an engineer and I design a bridge, I inherit responsibility for everything that happens to that bridge consequent to my design. If it falls over in a light breeze, that's because of something I did (or didn't) do. If it periodically drops beams on people's heads, killing them, that's because of something I did (or didn't) do.

I don't see how creating a world that randomly throws disasters at people is different from a bridge that randomly drops beams on people.

Can you imagine what God's insurance premiums would be for public liability insurance.

 

[Imari]

Can you imagine what God's insurance premiums would be for public liability insurance.

I'm not sure he's a registered member of the World Creator's Association. No insurance company will touch an unregistered tradesman.

 

[FiLaM1989]

I'm not sure I understand any of this. Are you being facetious or is this a legitimate attempt at an explanation of natural disasters and you just happen to get sidetracked into "humans kill, steal, lie, cheat, get uneducated and came in jumping on the beds all night"?

Yeah, I'm joking. Actually, I do believe in gods. I just have mixed reactions to the Catholic church. Whatever pope Frankie says, I just don't care.

 

[Imari]

Yeah, I'm joking. Actually, I do believe in gods. I just have mixed reactions to the Catholic church. Whatever pope Frankie says, I just don't care.

So would like to explain seriously why you think that humans cause all natural disasters?

 

[BobK]

Jesus saves.

...and Crosby scores on the rebound!

@FiLaM1989. what is it you don't understand about the word "natural"?

 

[FiLaM1989]

So would like to explain seriously why you think that humans cause all natural disasters?

Because I lied. I don't think humans cause all natural disasters. If I see man-made disasters, then some kind of weather machine will definitely make a town into a new ice age.

 

[Imari]

Because I lied. I don't think humans cause all natural disasters. If I see man-made disasters, then some kind of weather machine will definitely make a town into a new ice age.

Ah. So you're a troll. Good to know.

 

[Azuremen]

Ah. So you're a troll. Good to know.

Well, this exchange helped me understand the rest of his posts in this section.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Not the rest of it, I disagree with many beliefs people tell me what. How am I going to believe that humans are not species? Care to explain.

 

[DQuaN]

I think first you have to understand the meanings of words before you start believing them or not.

 

[Azuremen]

Not the rest of it, I disagree with many beliefs people tell me what. How am I going to believe that humans are not species? Care to explain.

Is English your first language? Many of your sentences have an extremely confusing structure and I'm fairly sure most of us have no idea what you're attempting to communicate.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Is English your first language? Many of your sentences have an extremely confusing structure and I'm fairly sure most of us have no idea what you're attempting to communicate.

No, but are you a grammar Nazi?

 

[Azuremen]

No, but are you a grammar Nazi?

No, I just like to understand what point people are attempting to make, especially when they frequently are putting it out there. Currently, it is extremely difficult to figure out what you are saying, and this isn't helped by your random non-sense that you later claim to be joking.

 

[Mike Rotch]

FiLaM1989, you are advised to read your PM's and adjust your behaviour accordingly.

 

[Carbonox]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/20/maajid-nawaz-cartoon_n_4631609.html
www.jesusandmo.net
Here we go again.

I think this is a great time to share this "little" picture I came across today on Reddit. May it be a summary of what I think about religion in general.

http://i.imgur.com/mpQA0.jpg

 

[Joel]

2edgy4me

You could make one of those to justify hating pretty well any race, nation or culture. I grew out of being an angry atheist when I got out of high school, it doesn't make you the enlightened one to make sweeping broad generalizations about religious people.

Are there systematic problems in the world that religion is a part of? Of course. That doesn't mean the average people are a problem. Most religious people just believe what they were brought up believing and most I've met don't preach hate.

I don't have any place for religion in my life but I don't have any place for angry atheism either. Would also suggest to maybe consider unsubscribing from r/atheism because it is the worst circlejerk imaginable.