Do you believe in God?

[dxld]

Right... so there are those with whom God does not communicate directly?

That makes sense to me, since clearly I am one of those people - but it seems astonishingly remiss for an all-powerful creator to simply not bother with some people. Also, this being the case, it is completely understandable that those who are not selected by God for direct communication might not believe he exists at all.

As I was reading your reply and about to ready mine I forgot I left my door partially open, the wind blew it shut with a loud startling boom, so in a way God did communicate with me and I feel confident he was trying to tell me something. As I have multiple tasks to worry about, I will leave you all to ponder and absorb amongst yourselves.

 

[Liquid]

As I was reading your reply and about to ready mine I forgot I left my door partially open, the wind blew it shut with a loud startling boom, so in a way God did communicate with me it and I feel confident he was trying to tell me something. As I have multiple tasks to worry about, I will leave you all to ponder and absorb amongst yourselves.

Which is code for: idontknowkthnxbye

If you won't discuss or back up your claims, don't contribute at all.

 

[dxld]

Which is code for: idontknowkthnxbye

If you won't discuss or back up your claims, don't contribute at all.

If there was a code in what I wrote, I would have stated there was a code to decipher. I will come back later.

 

[sems4arsenal]

A lot of the time, it's the same answers someone else has given and

Sort of... I'm saying that most religious people I know all say the same thing about God, which is that they know God via a personal relationship - a direct one-to-one connection. But, when it comes to their beliefs, they are lock, stock and barrel the same as everyone else from the same religion, because they accept that their holy book is the word of God and allow that text to define what they should and should not believe.

So, on the one hand they are claiming that God communicates with them directly, while on the other they take God's word from the same source as everyone else in that religion.

My point is that, if God (or Gods) really do communicate with people directly, then what do they need holy books for?

But what is the defintion of directly? is hearing and answering your prayers considered Direct? no religion tells you that when you ask for God you will actually hear someone talking back, Holy books are teachings and rules by God sort to speak which isn't strictly communication between you and God.

they're already refuted, so it makes sense.

Why is 15 to 1 significant?


Sounds reasonable, but then you need to figure out what's static and what's not. How you do this varies wildly from religion to religion or even between individuals, and worse than that some of it just isn't logical.




There is perception, and then there is reality. You took an event a certain way, but you could be miles off what actually happened. Reality is what we'd be interested in here, and the way to find reality is the scientific method. So you would need to turn to science to confirm your feelings. Just going with your feelings won't get you anywhere.

Hence the point that this thread will always stop to, you can't using science prove without a shadow of a doubt God exists and you can't prove he does not.

 

[Touring Mars]

As I was reading your reply and about to ready mine I forgot I left my door partially open, the wind blew it shut with a loud startling boom, so in a way God did communicate with me and I feel confident he was trying to tell me something.

Seriously... your door blew shut and you interpreted this as God speaking to you?

That is taking cryptic to a whole new level.

 

[dxld]

Seriously... your door blew shut and you interpreted this as God speaking to you?

That is taking cryptic to a whole new level.

Cryptic as in a direct translation into a it to a

Seriously... your door blew shut and you interpreted this as God speaking to you?

That is taking cryptic to a whole new level.

I guess you are right, it's passed Cryptic, it's passed the understanding of Code or definition, it's simply Godly... And see it didn't take me too long to come back.

And you still have yet to provide any evidence for a million Jewish slaves in Egypt other than things like a list of names some of which sound like they might be Jewish.

How about actually backing up a claim for once, instead of just piling on more? Everything in your post quoted here is unsupported. Not to mention failing to address any of the things you've been questioned on before and ignored.


I respectfully suggest you review @dxld's history in this thread to see the refutation to that. The pattern is this:
1) Make wild claim.
2) Get called on it and asked to produce supporting evidence.
3a) Post something totally irrelevant in response or
3b) Ignore it and make yet another unsubstantiated claim (see above).

So Ancient Hebrew writing on ancient egyptian artifacts, documentation of Hebrews that lived in Egypt, slave documentation, paintings on walls that depicted slaves, and the Egyptians recording of the 10 plagues was not supporting evidence to you?

Do you know why the Egyptian Royalty built the Pyramids and grand statues? they did that do assert they were Gods among the commoners. But did they survive the plagues and assert that their Gods and their royalty were Gods of the earth? The ancient Egyptians went to great depths to show how mighty their civilization was, but now we see their once great but fallen civilization. We see the rotting grey bodies of their royalty, many of their riches stolen by Grave robbers and removed by archaeologists. We see large monuments raised for the dead, while the houses of the living are now in ruins. Gods proof that their are no other Gods before him is the downfall of the Egyptian Civilation.

The Pharoahs were not Gods, their idols like Ra, Anubis, Set... they were not Gods.

The proof the multitude of Jews that lived in Egypt is that today Millions of Jews live and succeed throughout the world to this very day, yet the culture and the bloodline of the Ancient Egyptians is now dead.

 

[Dennisch]

How do you come up with this stuff? Do you read parts of everything and just combine them as you like?

 

[Famine]

The proof the multitude of Jews that lived in Egypt is

Finally! Documented evidence of the "million Jewish slaves in Egypt" claim!

that today Millions of Jews live and succeed throughout the world to this very day, yet the culture and the bloodline of the Ancient Egyptians is now dead.

The... what?

Millions of Irish people live and succeed throughout the world to this very day, yet the culture and the bloodline of the Ancient Sumerians is now dead. Apparently this is proof that the Sumerians had a million Irish slaves.


Incidentally, did you know that you're claiming that around 1 in every 15 people on the planet at that time was a Jew, enslaved by Egyptians?

 

[DK]

It's also proof that the Sumerians were wiped out because they took our booze away.

 

[PsuPepperoni]

Can anyone prove to me that unicorns don't exist?

 

[BobK]

So Ancient Hebrew writing on ancient egyptian artifacts, documentation of Hebrews that lived in Egypt, slave documentation, paintings on walls that depicted slaves, and the Egyptians recording of the 10 plagues was not supporting evidence to you?

No, that is not supporting evidence. You have provided evidence of a million or so Jews in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that. You have provided evidence of lots of slaves in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that either. What you have not supplied any evidence at all for aside from a list of slave names some of which sound like they might, maybe be Jewish, is a million Jewish slaves in Egypt. This has been pointed out to you many times, by many of us, yet you continue to avoid it. Evidence for a million Jews, all of whom were also slaves. That's what you have failed to establish.

Do you know why the Egyptian Royalty built the Pyramids and grand statues? they did that do assert they were Gods among the commoners. But did they survive the plagues and assert that their Gods and their royalty were Gods of the earth? The ancient Egyptians went to great depths to show how mighty their civilization was, but now we see their once great but fallen civilization. We see the rotting grey bodies of their royalty, many of their riches stolen by Grave robbers and removed by archaeologists. We see large monuments raised for the dead, while the houses of the living are now in ruins. Gods proof that their are no other Gods before him is the downfall of the Egyptian Civilation.



The Pharoahs were not Gods, their idols like Ra, Anubis, Set... they were not Gods.



The proof the multitude of Jews that lived in Egypt is that today Millions of Jews live and succeed throughout the world to this very day, yet the culture and the bloodline of the Ancient Egyptians is now dead.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. It certainly has nothing to do with millions of Jewish slaves.

 

[dxld]

No, that is not supporting evidence. You have provided evidence of a million or so Jews in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that. You have provided evidence of lots of slaves in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that either. What you have not supplied any evidence at all for aside from a list of slave names some of which sound like they might, maybe be Jewish, is a million Jewish slaves in Egypt. This has been pointed out to you many times, by many of us, yet you continue to avoid it. Evidence for a million Jews, all of whom were also slaves. That's what you have failed to establish.



I have no idea what point you're trying to make. It certainly has nothing to do with millions of Jewish slaves.

My point is the vast and great Egyptian civilaization Collapsed, the vast and great Hebrew Nation prevailed.

 

[orimarc]

Can anyone prove to me that unicorns don't exist?

YOU say unicorns exist, it's YOUR duty to provide proof.

 

[Denur]

My point is the vast and great Egyptian civilaization Collapsed, the vast and great Hebrew Nation prevailed.

Did they now? According to Wikipedia there are about 84 million inhabitants in Egypt and some 14 million Jews word wide (according to this site). But maybe you have a nice definition for what makes a civilization both vast and great. Besides, why would you want to make that point anyway (I think I know why, but I'd like to hear you say it).

 

[Touring Mars]

I guess you are right, it's passed Cryptic, it's passed the understanding of Code or definition, it's simply Godly...

You believe it is Godly, but do you also entertain the possibility that it might not be? Also, and I'm genuinely interested to hear what you have to say about this - determining that a particular event or observation is a sign or communication from God is one thing, but ascribing a meaning to it is quite another. In this case, what exactly was the message being communicated by the door blowing shut?

 

[Spurgy 777]

Obviously god was telling him to close his door... Either that or he was trying to say aliens were invading, but who would be silly enough to believe in aliens?

 

[Exorcet]

Hence the point that this thread will always stop to, you can't using science prove without a shadow of a doubt God exists and you can't prove he does not.

It all depends on whether a claim is testable or not. The vaguest concept of God is not. Many here go more specific and point to certain gods like the god of the Bible. The Bible is testable and is subject to scientific evidence. Experiences can be as well.

 

[BobK]

My point is the vast and great Egyptian civilaization Collapsed, the vast and great Hebrew Nation prevailed.

Just how is this connected to a million Jewish slaves? You know, the thing you've still to produce any credible evidence for?

Or are you again trying to change the subject, hoping people will forget that you cannot back up your claims?

 

[huskeR32]

Or are you again trying to change the subject, hoping people will forget that you cannot back up your claims?

I hope it's this. Because at this point, the only alternative is that he honestly has no idea that you're asking him something he hasn't answered yet.

 

[Dennisch]

Just how is this connected to a million Jewish slaves? You know, the thing you've still to produce any credible evidence for?

Don't you see the evidence??

 

[dxld]

Did they now? According to Wikipedia there are about 84 million inhabitants in Egypt and some 14 million Jews word wide (according to this site). But maybe you have a nice definition for what makes a civilization both vast and great. Besides, why would you want to make that point anyway (I think I know why, but I'd like to hear you say it).

Inhabitants of Egypt, not the same inhabitants of Ancient Egypt, the culture and especially the Ancient Egyptian practice of religion is long gone.

No, that is not supporting evidence. You have provided evidence of a million or so Jews in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that. You have provided evidence of lots of slaves in ancient Egypt. Nobody is disputing that either. What you have not supplied any evidence at all for aside from a list of slave names some of which sound like they might, maybe be Jewish, is a million Jewish slaves in Egypt. This has been pointed out to you many times, by many of us, yet you continue to avoid it. Evidence for a million Jews, all of whom were also slaves. That's what you have failed to establish.



I have no idea what point you're trying to make. It certainly has nothing to do with millions of Jewish slaves.

Jewish writing in ancient Egypt, Jewish slaves in ancient Egypt, numerous grand monuments in ancient Egypt, documentation of the biblical plagues in ancient Egypt, evidence of dead infants in ancient Egypt, the collapse of the Egyptian empire, all consistent with the biblical texts... It's pretty much like 90% of the crossword puzzle exists....given they didn't have video or photo cameras, there is enough evidence there were a great number of Jewish slaves in Ancient Egypt.

Not only that but God proved The Egyptian Pharoahs or there Idols were not true Gods and preserved the Nation of Hebrews to increase in number and thrive and succeed when they abide by Gods rules.

 

[Danoff]

Jewish writing in ancient Egypt

Slaves...

Jewish slaves in ancient Egypt

Evidence...

, numerous grand monuments in ancient Egypt

Built by?

, documentation of the biblical plagues in ancient Egypt,

This has to do with?

evidence of dead infants in ancient Egypt,

...that would make sense given medical technology at the time.

the collapse of the Egyptian empire

...as is typical of historical empires.

all consistent with the biblical texts...

Benign examples are evidence of the really radical stuff? Interesting.

there is enough evidence there were a great number of Jewish slaves in Ancient Egypt.

Where?

Not only that but God proved The Egyptian Pharoahs or there Idols were not true Gods and preserved the Nation of Hebrews to increase in number and thrive and succeed when they abide by Gods rules.

...and now you're just pointing to a book.

 

[Famine]

there is enough evidence there were a great number of Jewish slaves in Ancient Egypt

Then there should be nothing stopping you from providing it. Seriously, how many weeks have you been avoiding this now?

Provide evidence of your claim that one million Jewish slaves - 8% of the world population at the time - were held in Egypt. Or retract the claim.

 

[Touring Mars]

From Haaretz, Israel's oldest newspaper...

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world...laves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844

'Were Jews ever really slaves in Egypt, or is Passover a myth?'

The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. Yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source. I'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources. Of these, nothing exists.

Of course, what do the Israelis know about Jewish history?

 

[BobK]

Inhabitants of Egypt, not the same inhabitants of Ancient Egypt, the culture and especially the Ancient Egyptian practice of religion is long gone.



Jewish writing in ancient Egypt, Jewish slaves in ancient Egypt, numerous grand monuments in ancient Egypt, documentation of the biblical plagues in ancient Egypt, evidence of dead infants in ancient Egypt, the collapse of the Egyptian empire, all consistent with the biblical texts... It's pretty much like 90% of the crossword puzzle exists....given they didn't have video or photo cameras, there is enough evidence there were a great number of Jewish slaves in Ancient Egypt.

Not only that but God proved The Egyptian Pharoahs or there Idols were not true Gods and preserved the Nation of Hebrews to increase in number and thrive and succeed when they abide by Gods rules.

None of this whatsoever is evidence of a million Jew slaves in Egypt. You're just repeating the claim when you say "Jewish slaves in ancient Egypt", repetition is not evidence, except perhaps in your world of "logic".

If, as you claim, there is enough evidence there were a great number of Jewish slaves in ancient Egypt, why have you not been able to supply a single scrap of evidence in support of it outside of some list of names, some of which might be Jewish, maybe?

Key words here: great numbers of Jewish slaves. A million of them, or somewhere in the neighborhood anyway. Why do you keep ducking this and coming up with irrelevant things like the collapse of the ancient Egyptian empire?

 

[Hun200kmh]

[jk]
Is the collapse of the ancient Egyptian Empire irrelevant?
[/jk]


Well, in all seriousness, I don't think there's a doubt, even among scholars, that a great leader of what would become the jewish people led a mass of people out of Egypt and that for these people he was both a liberator, a man inspired by God and a lawmaker.

You don't need to believe in God to accept this, and indeed you may not believe in God and still accept this. True also that you may believe in God and not accept the entirety of Moses story as told in the Torah, later imported to be part of the Bible. In any case, please oh atheists, don't let yourselves get too tight on the detail of a million or a few thousands. Just say the full historic account is unclear and that you do not think the Bible is to be regarded as a book that depicts historic events in a way scientifically acceptable. And therefore that you disagree with the religious view as defended by dxld.

 

[dxld]

[jk]
Is the collapse of the ancient Egyptian Empire irrelevant?
[/jk]


Well, in all seriousness, I don't think there's a doubt, even among scholars, that a great leader of what would become the jewish people led a mass of people out of Egypt and that for these people he was both a liberator, a man inspired by God and a lawmaker.

You don't need to believe in God to accept this, and indeed you may not believe in God and still accept this. True also that you may believe in God and not accept the entirety of Moses story as told in the Torah, later imported to be part of the Bible. In any case, please oh atheists, don't let yourselves get too tight on the detail of a million or a few thousands. Just say the full historic account is unclear and that you do not think the Bible is to be regarded as a book that depicts historic events in a way scientifically acceptable. And therefore that you disagree with the religious view as defended by dxld.

A core of the Hebrew faith is the celebration if Passover, it specifically is stated in the Bible to Celebrate Passover(Easter in gentile terms) to Remind the Jews of their time as Slaves in Egypt and God set them free. It's really not that harmful to remember such an event in their History. If you are not religious what direct impact on your life will acknowledging the Jews Slavery in Egypt do for you? Almost none, because Slavery is almost non-existent in these times. The only people that would have a small reason to be upset would be today's Citizens of Egypt.

It's bad enough when people say the Bible is Pro Slavery when God Chose Moses to free them from oppression and slavery.

Would you prefer God did nothing and let the Jewish people say ho Hum, Slavery is better than being unemployed, let's just help the Egyptians build more grand monuments and tombs and pyramids.
Acknowledging the Historical Event of Hebrew Slaves produces positive more than negative results. During the time of the American Civil War the story of Moses and the freedom of the Slaves was used as inspiration to call for the freedom of African Slaves.

Let me add one more reason why remembering the Hebrews time as slaves in Egypt is important! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

 

[Liquid]

What would I prefer?

I'd prefer, IF god was real, to not give his creations free will then punish them for it. And for making greed and aggression trademark characteristics of humans.

Pretty shoddy workmanship if you ask me. Any decent foreman would have halted production and gone back to the drawing board.

Also, I can't go back and reedit in the quote, but the line about modern slavery being non-existent is utter nonsense. More people are in forced servitude now than when slavery was legal and acceptable. If you think slavery is not an issue in today's society, you are living in a dream world.

 

[dxld]

What would I prefer?

I'd prefer, IF god was real, to not give his creations free will then punish them for it. And for making greed and aggression trademark characteristics of humans.

Pretty shoddy workmanship if you ask me. Any decent foreman would have halted production and gone back to the drawing board.

Also, I can't go back and reedit in the quote, but the line about modern slavery being non-existent is utter nonsense. More people are in forced servitude now than when slavery was legal and acceptable. If you think slavery is not an issue in today's society, you are living in a dream world.

Some would say that type of modern slavery is not the definition of slavery, but I'm sick of people trying to turn my words into a trap.

 

[Imari]

Let me add one more reason why remembering the Hebrews time as slaves in Egypt is important! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

It'll be fine, because it never happened in the first place.