Do you believe in God?

[Denur]

I think it's the other way around...

That little "mistake" was quite intensional.

 

[LeMansAid]

The first few lines are not really very interesting. Holy god, let's follow your commandments. Ok fine whatever that's part of Christianity. But then we get into the "daily bread" line where we're somehow supposed to praise God for our own work, and that's something I really hate about religion. Why must we absolutely refuse to take credit for anything in religion.

I've never read The Bible, and don't expect to. I also have no idea of what the official interpretation of that line is, but I read a sense of being humble in that. "Give us our daily bread" in place of "give us a big screen tv". Or whatever one needed to keep up with the Jonahs, back in the day.

 

[Grayfox]

According to Dr Jones the cup of christ is not made of gold since gold was a the cup was not a cup of a carpenter.

So the cup of christ in the spanish church is clearly a fake.

 

[Famine]

According to Dr Jones the cup of christ is not made of gold since gold was a the cup was not a cup of a carpenter.

So the cup of christ in the spanish church is clearly a fake.

You appear not to be looking at the screen at all today when you post. I can't see anything above about a grail in a Spanish church.

 

[Agent_47]

Why do people who don't believe in God always try to force their opinions on people who do? If you don't believe in God, then don't, nobody is making you.

According to Dr Jones the cup of christ is not made of gold since gold was a the cup was not a cup of a carpenter.

So the cup of christ in the spanish church is clearly a fake.

Does it matter anyway? Who says that the Holy Grail is even a cup? The church? People should be more concerned about trying to be good people, or good Christians if they are Christians, than finding the Holy Grail.

 

[Dagger311]

And besides, everyone knows this is the real Holy Grail...

Indiana Jones For The Win!!!

 

[Famine]

If you don't believe in God, then don't, nobody is making you.

Sure, if you ignore the doctrine in many religions about converting the unbelievers and the entirety of history involving the persecution of nonbelievers by "the faithful".

Sharing opinion in a forum thread is hardly "forcing".

 

[Agent_47]

Sure, if you ignore the doctrine in many religions about converting the unbelievers and the entirety of history involving the persecution of nonbelievers by "the faithful".

Sharing opinion in a forum thread is hardly "forcing".

Then be the better man. If you don't believe in God, then stop yelling about people who do. Yes sharing your opinion is fine, arguing with people and getting mad when they don't see it your way is something else.

 

[Famine]

Then be the better man. If you don't believe in God, then stop yelling about people who do.

Why is that "better" when religion is trying to force its way into science teaching and lawmaking in place of sense?

Yes sharing your opinion is fine

Thanks for the permission.

arguing with people and getting mad when they don't see it your way is something else.

What about adult debate without anyone getting mad? That's what happens here most of the time.

 

[Danoff]

Why do people who don't believe in God always try to force their opinions on people who do? If you don't believe in God, then don't, nobody is making you.

Don't you have that backward?

Ok, imagine for a moment that most of the people around you smeared poo on their foreheads every day. All kinds of bad things happen, they get sick, they get pimples, they smell terrible, and yet they continue every single day to smear poo on their foreheads. Would you not mention to them that what they're doing is silly and counter productive? Ok now imagine that they do something even worse than that - like wearing Uggs boots. Imagine that 90% of the people around you wore Uggs boots (I know, not that hard), doesn't it make sense to point out to them that their boots are overpriced, ugly, and non-functional?

If someone has a bad habit, I don't shy away from pointing it out unless it is patently obvious that they already know what I'm about to say - like smokers.

Believing in God is one of the more amazing applications of the human mind (I think both sides see it that way). I, for one, am fascinated by the fact that people are able to twist their heads into believing a santa clause fairy tale for their entire adult lives. It is remarkable, and I like to learn more about it. One of the best ways to do that is to approach religious people with reason and see how it fits with their beliefs.


In the words of Six... [humans] have an amazing capacity for self-deception. How do you do that?

 

[Agent_47]

Why is that "better" when religion is trying to force its way into science teaching and lawmaking in place of sense?

It' not. Just because someone wants to say a prayer in school doesn't mean you have to. OTOH, I've seen plenty of times where someone is harassed for being religious or expressing their religious beliefs. That very thing is happening with Hobby Lobby and the Obamacare contraceptive mandate right now.

 

[Danoff]

It' not. Just because someone wants to say a prayer in school doesn't mean you have to. OTOH, I've seen plenty of times where someone is harassed for being religious or expressing their religious beliefs. That very thing is happening with Hobby Lobby and the Obamacare contraceptive mandate right now.

It may be difficult to see, but that's not driven by people attacking religion, that's driven by people wanting free handouts. Totally different.

 

[Famine]

It' not.

Did we all imagine the teaching of evolution as fact being banned then? Did we imagine that science textbooks had to include phrasing that suggested evolution was "only a theory" and a single explanation of many that could be equally valid?

Have we imagined the abortion and gay marriage issues being fought on religious grounds? Really?

Just because someone wants to say a prayer in school doesn't mean you have to.

I've not been to school for many, many years now - but when a science textbook has to, by law include idiotic Creationist fantasies that evolution is no more valid that "poof, God did it in 7 days", you're in a situation where religion is forcing its way into science teaching in place of sense.

OTOH, I've seen plenty of times where someone is harassed for being religious or expressing their religious beliefs. That very thing is happening with Hobby Lobby and the Obamacare contraceptive mandate right now.

And you'll find the atheists on this forum defending them - while attacking Obamacare itself.

 

[Scaff]

It' not.

So why has the UK had to put in place legislation to stop faith school redacting exam questions that mention evolution?
http://www.education11kbw.com/2014/03/31/faith-schools-banned-from-redacting-evolution-questions/

Why has an entire country stated that being an atheist makes you a terrorist?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

Religion is far from 'hands off' when it comes to every area of life, so given that it wants to try and walk right over mine I think I will continue to exercise the right of reply.

Now please don't get me wrong I totally support your right to religious freedom (almost certainly to a far greater degree than many religions do - which is kind of ironic), but I certainly don't respect religion itself and certainly do not recognise that religions as having any 'right' (people have rights, religions don't).

Just because someone wants to say a prayer in school doesn't mean you have to.

Yes because school behave ideally in this regard don't they.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...led-told-to-accept-it-leave-school-or-convert

 

[Agent_47]

So why has the UK had to put in place legislation to stop faith school redacting exam questions that mention evolution?
http://www.education11kbw.com/2014/03/31/faith-schools-banned-from-redacting-evolution-questions/

Why has an entire country stated that being an atheist makes you a terrorist?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

Religion is far from 'hands off' when it comes to every area of life, so given that it wants to try and walk right over mine I think I will continue to exercise the right of reply.

Now please don't get me wrong I totally support your right to religious freedom (almost certainly to a far greater degree than many religions do - which is kind of ironic), but I certainly don't respect religion itself and certainly do not recognise that religions as having any 'right' (people have rights, religions don't).


Yes because school behave ideally in this regard don't they.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...led-told-to-accept-it-leave-school-or-convert

Saudi Arabia? Really? You're going to use them to support your point?

 

[DK]

Why has an entire country stated that being an atheist makes you a terrorist?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

When you're a king who rules a theocratic state with an iron fist, you'd probably feel terrorised by someone who doesn't follow your religion.

For the record, the Republic of Ireland also has a poor record when it comes to the church sticking its nose into other people's lives. We didn't even decriminalise homosexuality until 1992, and divorce was banned by our constitution until 1996! And don't get me started on the RCC's grip on education and health...

 

[homeforsummer]

Saudi Arabia? Really? You're going to use them to support your point?

He actually supported his point in several ways. What I don't see is you refuting it in any way...

 

[BobK]

Why do people who don't believe in God always try to force their opinions on people who do? If you don't believe in God, then don't, nobody is making you.

I've had lots of people come knocking on my door trying to persuade me to adopt their religion. I've had any number of people handing me flyers about their God(s) in airports and other public facilities. I have never, ever seen an atheist do anything remotely similar.

Contrariwise, I've known a number of atheists who never tried to force their opinions (about religion, maybe not true of other subjects such as sports for instance) on anybody in my presence. So what prompts you to say atheists are always trying to force their opinions on others when my experience says it's the religious folks trying to force beliefs on others?

 

[Scaff]

Saudi Arabia? Really? You're going to use them to support your point?

Actually I used numerous example to support my point, one of them being Saudi (and given that its an area of the world I work in from time to time its rather relevant to my point).

Would you like some more examples that clearly and categorically refute the point you made? As they are not exactly hard to find.

Now please clarify exactly what is wrong with using Saudi as an example of theist influence in law?

To be blunt Sharia (and its entire sliding scale) is an excellent example of religion going to places it doesn't belong, just as use of the OT laws to attempt to criminalise and/or persecute certain groups is (and not a major leap as both have origins in the same texts).

However if you would like a more Christian example, then lets take the role of evangelical US lobbying groups in Uganda shall we. Once again an entire subset of the population criminalised due to the direct actions of religion.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264289/-Uganda-s-American-Religous-Anti-Gay-Lobby

 

[LeMansAid]

Believing in God is one of the more amazing applications of the human mind (I think both sides see it that way).

Hehe, for some reason I initially read that as both the lateral and logical sides of the brain.

 

[BobK]

I've seen plenty of times where someone is harassed for being religious or expressing their religious beliefs.

This is invariably at the hands of people who are themselves religious, of a different religion obviously.

 

[LeMansAid]

I'd want some clarification on exactly what that "expressing" actually involved.

 

[Touring Mars]

My mate reposted this on Facebook....

http://www.christianapologeticsalli...ason-why-the-quran-cannot-be-the-word-of-god/

The fact that it was published on 1st April but is evidently not a joke just adds to the fun factor.

Premise 1: Either the Bible is the Word of God or it is not.

Premise 2: If the Bible is the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.

Premise 3: If the Bible is not the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.

Conclusion: Therefore, the Qur’an is not the Word of God.

I will confess, I didn't make it beyond this pseudo-logical deduction (OK, so I didn't read the bit before it either) but it is still chucklesome.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable rebuttal:

Premise 1: Either the Qur’an is the Word of Allah or it is not.

Premise 2: If the Qur’an is the Word of Allah, the Bible is not.

Premise 3: If the Qur’an is not the Word of Allah, the Bible is not.

Conclusion: Therefore, the Bible is not the Word of Allah.

 

[Mustangmiha]

 

[dxld]

My mate reposted this on Facebook....

http://www.christianapologeticsalli...ason-why-the-quran-cannot-be-the-word-of-god/

The fact that it was published on 1st April but is evidently not a joke just adds to the fun factor.



I will confess, I didn't make it beyond this pseudo-logical deduction (OK, so I didn't read the bit before it either) but it is still chucklesome.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable rebuttal:

Christians and Jews may disagree with the Koran but if they know their bibles, they will agree upon Gods blessings of the Arab people.

All three agree on only One God, who is the God of Abraham and the God of Noah, but they disagree on how to serve and worship God.

Also Jews and Muslims can't eat Bacon and Pork, Christians can eat pork.

 

[Scaff]

Christians and Jews may disagree with the Koran but if they know their bibles, they will agree upon Gods blessings of the Arab people.

All three agree on only One God, who is the God of Abraham and the God of Noah, but they disagree on how to serve and worship God.

So how come a god can't get the right message out? Seems to have managed to get three groups of people who follow him (not including the hundreds of sub-sects) to dedicate thousands of years killing each other instead?

Also Jews and Muslims can't eat Bacon and Pork, Christians can eat pork.

Which is why again? Seeing as all three groups have texts that specifically state your not allowed to follow god and eat pork (or prawns for that matter), yet Christians simply ignore it? Oh and please don't try the nonsense that the NT removes the OT laws, because it clearly doesn't.

 

[Liquid]

And the bit about eating pork is roughly in the same part about a passage regarding homosexuality being a sin.

So yeah, hate gays and eat bacon guys.

 

[Danoff]

@Liquid

It's actually fairly consistent. Men should not eat pork, and also not eat pork.

 

[killerjimbag]

Yes and let all religions go on killing the masses in the name of their god. I'm going to have a BLT.

 

[Liquid]

@Liquid

It's actually fairly consistent. Men should not eat pork, and also not eat pork.

And also eat every living thing that moveth. Genesis 9:3.