Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
  • 24,489 comments
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,042
Well "by chance" and "not created by higher power" are not synonymous and you should not use them as if they were. Honestly, by chance is a silly phrase. If I were incredibly religious I could say the world occurred by chance: God, being all powerful and all, certainly had the option to create or not to. So we only exist by the 50% chance that he chose to.

I digress but my point is that in metaphysical conversation you need to be literal and specific with what you say as much as possible or else we all lose each other's positions and things go to hell (so to speak :sly:).

Well said. 👍

So yes, we DO believe that existence was "not created by a higher power". I should think that would be self-evident by now, which leads me to think that you probably DID mean "by chance" when you said "by chance".

Semantics aside, I've been trying to put the onus on the believers to offer a positive argument, which I think may have been a mistake. I think what I'd REALLY like to see is some honest introspection.

I challenge the "true believers" here to take a rigorously honest look within and trace the "evolution" of your belief. Why do you believe what you believe? What influences brought you to the conclusions you've drawn?
 
Only one problem, where did those 2 dimensions come from? That's the one question science can't seem to answer, which is, how can something come from nothing.

It is true that science does not have all the answers - but what does that have to do with religion? Also, would you care to comment on this?

Sam
So you believe everything in the universe was purely by chance.

me
Nope. Not sure what makes you think that.
 
Son of a son of a preacher, I guess. just the way I was raised. Tear it apart all you like, that's just the way it is.
 
I think the common answer is that God is so powerful he doesn't need a creator. Is it not possible that the physics of the universe is so complex that our assumption that something needs to come from something else does not apply?
 
According to the Bible, God is/was eternal.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but that argument is simply lame. It's just "Because I say so". If I wrote "Because I say so" in one of my philosophy papers I'd be doomed. That's my problem with the catholic church, it leaves no space for the excersise or development of the mind or the body, everything is "Because I say so". "Don't think by yourself, because everything is X or Y Because I say so", "Don't act by yourself Because I say so" 👎👎👎. If is true that god made me, he made me one rational and logical being, and if he made me a rational and logical being he should know I won't buy a "Because I say so" argument.
 
God isn't in part of the universe.

Doesn't matter.

God was still created from nothing, which you are knocking science for. Nothing can just always exist as it has to have a starting point somewhere. No religious person has ever been able to answer who created God or how God was created. Saying he always existed is just proving the ridiculousness of religion and seems like a major cop of addressing a huge flaw.
 
Doesn't matter.

God was still created from nothing, which you are knocking science for. Nothing can just always exist as it has to have a starting point somewhere. No religious person has ever been able to answer who created God or how God was created. Saying he always existed is just proving the ridiculousness of religion and seems like a major cop of addressing a huge flaw.

Which is why I believe the true knowledge about God is beyond human comprehension. And thats why, back to my first post here, I'm agnostic. Does god exist? Who is god? Who created god? Don't know, Don't care. Though I love to discuss it and use it as a mind-crunching excersise. I think it's logical that god exists, but then I'm a human, and as the human I am, I'll just live my life to the maximum, enjoy, learn, suffer, evolve.

From Cambridge web dictionary:

Agnostic - Noun
/ægˈnɒs.tɪk/
Someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, whether a god exists.

"Although he was raised a Catholic, he was an agnostic for most of his adult life." (Duuude!!! Cambridge nows me quite well :sly:).
 
So, if there was something before the Big Bang (and I'm not questioning that there was, I'm sure there was), what was it? And where did it came from? How did it came to be? Questioning it that way is like dividing by zero, you'll follow infinetely, until you arrive to a point where you say "I don't know/I can't think of it/I don't care".

I agree, but then if the concept of the Universe being infinate is difficult to grasp (and by rights it should be, if space and time isn't mind-boggling to you then you aren't looking at it in enough detail!), then I find it amusing that people can believe in a God that created all that's around us without questioning where the God came from, as surely it would pose the same problems of an infinite backwards cycle.

Regarding the universe - yes, the numbers are hard to understand. That certainly doesn't make them impossible. We only can't comprehend those numbers (infinity) as we're naturally conditioned to believe that there has to be a start and an end to everything. That isn't necessarily the case.
 
Which is why I believe the true knowledge about God is beyond human comprehension. And thats why, back to my first post here, I'm agnostic. Does god exist? Who is god? Who created god? Don't know, Don't care. Though I love to discuss it and use it as a mind-crunching excersise.

I am very much an agnostic. I don't know the answers to any of those questions and I don't think it's possible to ever know the answers but it doesn't mean I don't care and it doesn't mean I not always going to seek out answers.

I believe in evidence and no one has ever presented me with evidence one way or another to make me say if there is or is not a supernatural being. However, as of right now the non-existence of supernatural being seems to be more plausible then the existence. However, present with new evidence I would easily change my tune.

I agree, but then if the concept of the Universe being infinate is difficult to grasp (and by rights it should be, if space and time isn't mind-boggling to you then you aren't looking at it in enough detail!), then I find it amusing that people can believe in a God that created all that's around us without questioning where the God came from, as surely it would pose the same problems of an infinite backwards cycle.

To add to this I would like also to see what believers have to say about other life forms on other planets. If space is so mind boggling huge then how can we, humans think we are it in the universe in terms of intelligent life. Seems like a waste of God's time and energy to make something so freakin huge and only make one little rock, orbiting a star on one of the arms of the Milky Way be inhabitable.
 
I agree, but then if the concept of the Universe being infinate is difficult to grasp (and by rights it should be, if space and time isn't mind-boggling to you then you aren't looking at it in enough detail!), then I find it amusing that people can believe in a God that created all that's around us without questioning where the God came from, as surely it would pose the same problems of an infinite backwards cycle.

That's true indeed. Once talking to a dude of my age that was Catholic, this same thing happened. We were watching the stars drinking a bit of...coke...and he began slightly walking towards logical questioning, and then I dropped the bombshell on him "But then what created god?" He took it in the right way, liked the argument, pondered even more, and got me another drink...of coke.

Also, I agree about how mind-boggling the concept of infinity is. I believe it's as far as human understanding goes, and even goes a tad beyond...Infinity. Imagine one apple, imagine three apples, now imagine an infinite amount of apples...
 
I believe in evidence and no one has ever presented me with evidence one way or another to make me say if there is or is not a supernatural being. However, as of right now the non-existence of supernatural being seems to be more plausible then the existence. However, present with new evidence I would easily change my tune.

To add to this I would like also to see what believers have to say about other life forms on other planets. If space is so mind boggling huge then how can we, humans think we are it in the universe in terms of intelligent life. Seems like a waste of God's time and energy to make something so freakin huge and only make one little rock, orbiting a star on one of the arms of the Milky Way be inhabitable.

I'm agree again, and I guess I used "Don't care" inappropiately. The real idea behind the "Don't care" is "It doesn't affect my will to live". Also, I'm agree on the Alien argument, it's just human ego.
 
Would intelligent design be a better word in describing how the universe came to be?

No, that's just a synonym for creation and that means we still have the same issue we've been debating.

And I still want to know why it's OK to slag on science for not having a good answer to how all the matter in the universe was created but it's not OK to slag on religion for not having an answer at all to how God came into being. Please enlighten me, I'm curious.
 
No, that's just a synonym for creation and that means we still have the same issue we've been debating.

And I still want to know why it's OK to slag on science for not having a good answer to how all the matter in the universe was created but it's not OK to slag on religion for not having an answer at all to how God came into being. Please enlighten me, I'm curious.

Science is a branch of study dedicated to observable facts. Religion is more of a mental belief system where almost nothing is proven using observation. Religion is the answer to science, but science can't explain religion.
 
Your straying from the point, which, simply, is that you don't have to see, hear, or feel something to believe in it. You know it's possible, but it's never been done. It can't be done, yet you could easily imagine it. ( like parallel lines)

Very late response, but this:

You describe parallel lines as an ideal. An ideal of ines that do not touch, and where every congruent point is equidistant between the two lines. You can illustrate this and anyone who understands the principle can tell you you're illustrating parallel lines. =

Nobody agrees on God. On his shape, form or sect. Which of his chosen people are the chosen people. Whether he's a he, a she (Mary (yes, Marianism is a widely accepted heresy), Gaia) or an it... (errh... Gaia). You can't draw a picture of God. You can't describe God in an equation.

Why should I assume that there's only 1 God? Many religions on earth account for multiple deities. In some cases it would be better for me to not attempt to falsely pray on my deathbed out of a selfish desire to avoid some sort of hell. Even with Christianity it would do no good to pray just-in-case.

I had a good friend in College who was Hindu. Before every exam, he'd visit every mosque, church and temple in the city (Hinduism embraces polytheism). When he left for the US, he married a Catholic. I guess he has his bases covered. :lol:

If you pray to God (no name, no nothing, just God) you basically cover all of them. (except roman gods and indian and pagan gods)

Not those that require blood sacrifice. And most monotheistic gods have a rule: "no other god before me..."

God isn't in part of the universe.

Not in your religion, he isn't. The Egyptians worshipped him as the Sun. Many pagan religions worship nature. There are religions which put a Heaven and a Hell on a separate but very physical plane of existence... an idea that has been co-opted by the Christians from the Romans (Hades).

And many versions of Paradise have a very real, material element to them. Virgins don't grow on trees, you know.

Would intelligent design be a better word in describing how the universe came to be?

Intelligent Design describes nothing. It isn't even a valid philosophy. A philosophy of Intelligent design would allow that the parameters that describe our Universe were set by an outside influence, and this led our Universe to develop into what it is today.

Instead, they insist that everything that we see today is static and unchanging and is as it was designed from the beginning. An idea that's laughable in the face of very real evidence of the mutability of organisms, actual tectonic shifts and changes occuring within our lifetime and even measurable climate change (whether or not you ascribe to anthropogenic global warming, there is no doubting that climate changes over time).

It's a childish reaction to the science of evolution and biology. Simply a bunch of otherwise intelligent people saying: "It can't be so because it's too complex to understand."

Science is a branch of study dedicated to observable facts. Religion is more of a mental belief system where almost nothing is proven using observation. Religion is the answer to science, but science can't explain religion.

Religion doesn't answer science at all. It often, in fact, denies it.
 
Science is a branch of study dedicated to observable facts. Religion is more of a mental belief system where almost nothing is proven using observation. Religion is the answer to science, but science can't explain religion.

How is religion the answer to science? Religion was invented to explain the unexplainable way back when homo sapiens were a very new species. Even Neanderthals were thought to have had religion of sort. It makes sense when you lay all the pieces out.

Say you were an early human, you saw the aurora borealis, how would you explain it? Or say you saw a meteor? Or felt an earth quake? Whatever the natural phenomena would've been you wouldn't have had the knowledge to know what it was or what caused it. You ask your shaman and in order to not really show his lack of knowledge he says it's a message from the gods for whatever. This helps with the morality of the group and keeps everyone in check. Right there you have the start to religion, explaining the unexplainable by starting a unseen being or beings is responsible.

Granted that is just one theory and its been extremely simplified but it makes a point. Religion is being replaced by science because the unexplainable is progressively becoming explainable. So science is explaining religion, with every discovery we make we are explaining something that was at one time unexplainable.
 
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Science is a branch of study dedicated to observable facts. Religion is more of a mental belief system where almost nothing is proven using observation. Religion is the answer to science, but science can't explain religion.

I'm more inclinded to say that science is an evolved form of religion, basically what Joey D said.

Also, why did a storm of posts happen when I was away? (No need to answer of course, just don't do it again lol)
 
How is religion the answer to science? Religion was invented to explain the unexplainable way back when homo sapiens were a very new species. Even Neanderthals were thought to have had religion of sort. It makes sense when you lay all the pieces out.

Religion is sciences last resort effort at explaining how the universe came to be. Which is why religion is the answer to science.

Edit. well well, look what's come up at the top of the page.
 
Religion is sciences last resort effort at explaining how the universe came to be. Which is why religion is the answer to science.

Edit. well well, look what's come up at the top of the page.

How is that possible when

-religion predates modern science.

-religion doesn't answer anything.

At the top of the page, there is an add for AEM intakes.
 
Religion is sciences last resort effort at explaining how the universe came to be. Which is why religion is the answer to science.

Edit. well well, look what's come up at the top of the page.

Says who?

Since when?

Early religion started as a way for man to explain nature and natural phenomenon... well... not religion per se... but folklore, superstitions, etcetera.

Science started as a rational and systematic way of describing the universe. Unlike religion or folklore, which were invented by someone and passed down via word of mouth, the practice of science was rigorous and exacting. If your particular pet theory or explanation could not match observable data, it was discarded. If your particular pet folktale about Man's origins didn't stand up to scrutiny, it became that quaint old story about how Man and Woman were fashioned from Clay, Wood, Bamboo, Feathers, whatever.

Religion is not discarded. If anything, despite being superseded or becoming outdated from a sociological standpoint, old religious customs and beliefs are adhered to, no matter how old-fashioned they become.

While the fact that there is a point beyond which we can know no more about the Universe causes much speculation of what actually is beyond it... such speculation shouldn't be confused with religion.

Simply: theories of hyperspatial curvature have nothing at all to do with the existence of a homo-centric god.
 
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Says who?

Since when?

Early religion started as a way for man to explain nature and natural phenomenon... well... not religion per se... but folklore, superstitions, etcetera.

Science started as a rational and systematic way of describing the universe. Unlike religion or folklore, which were invented by someone and passed down via word of mouth, the practice of science was rigorous and exacting. If your particular pet theory or explanation could not match observable data, it was discarded. If your particular pet folktale about Man's origins didn't stand up to scrutiny, it became that quaint old story about how Man and Woman were fashioned from Clay, Wood, Bamboo, Feathers, whatever.

Religion is not discarded. If anything, despite being superseded or becoming outdated from a sociological standpoint, old religious customs and beliefs are adhered to, no matter how old-fashioned they become.

While the fact that there is a point beyond which we can know no more about the Universe causes much speculation of what actually is beyond it... such speculation shouldn't be confused with religion.

It's very simple. Science cannot answer they question, where did the universe come from. Religion can.

@Exorcet- there was an ad at the top of the page saying "6 reasons to believe in God". Guess it went away.
 

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