Do you believe in God?

[Joel]

I'm a Christian. Jesus overruled the Old Testament laws. Paul and Ignatius warned against living according to Jewish laws. What do you think?

Fair enough. I learned the same thing in Catholic school, but the discourse around many moral issues often involves citing old testament laws, and as @Scaff mentioned, we still see the 10 Commandments all through Christianity, there's New Testament verses saying not to throw out the Old, and religious leaders reference the Old Testament frequently.

It's impossible to gain any sort of favorable outcome when you're debating a group of people that will ignore half of what you say and then respond with a passage from your own book in order to make their argument appear stronger, and then repeatedly accuse you of cherry picking. I tried to have a sensible debate on this thread, for once, by asking a simple question. Not sure why I expected that to work. I'm going to stop letting you make me look like a fool and pray for you instead. God is wiser than any of us, and I hope my failed attempts at apologetics won't keep you from seeing the light.

The whole point of your discussion about morals was that the Bible provides a set of strong codified morals for people to follow, yet when people point out that there's sections of the Bible that are either morally abhorrent or logically inconsistent, you don't have an answer. We're accusing you of cherry picking because you are. And that's OK. I would be horrified if you followed everything in the Bible, and you'd be locked up in jail if you did. It's very much a good thing you don't follow everything in the Bible. Scaff isn't quoting Matthew to make you look silly. He's quoting it to show how contradictory the Bible is for a supposedly divine book from God.

But you can't claim that your faith gives you a strong entrenched objective moral code, because you pick and choose which parts of the Bible you consider morally right, and jettison the rest. You know it's wrong to stone rape victims, and you know it's silly to forbid eating shrimp or wearing synthetic fabrics, you made these decisions for yourself. Does that mean you're rejecting God every time you buy a shrimp ring? Of course not, you're smart enough to look at the teachings of Jesus, and draw your own conclusions about his message. If that's the case, then why do we need the church for morals, when the followers of the church don't even follow the Bible fully?

 

[GTP_Ingram]

Question. What makes yours right and the others wrong?

Christianity is simply what I believe in, and there are dozens, if not hundreds of Bible verses that state God (being the God of Abraham), is the one true God. I understand how that might not sound like a real reason to anyone who isn't a Christian. I don't need scientific or historical proof to believe in God. The values of Christianity are something I want to follow, not only to please God but because I believe living by those values makes me a better person. I see the values, the morals, in other religions (or lack thereof in atheism) and I disagree with them. That's why I'm a Christian.

This has always been the question which I've wanted to be answered properly. It wasn't here, certainly. The answer "because my book says so" isn't acceptable because any other religion can use exactly the same argument.

The problem is, that's the only answer I think a theist can muster for that question, because any logical arguments used to debate against the existence of other religions are just as applicable to their own.

@JMoney689, lets make Scaff's question more specific: putting your own belief in Christianity completely to one side, what is it about Hinduism that seems so far-fetched?

 

[Scaff]

If you want to discuss abortion, there's another thread for that.

I'm well aware of the other thread. I was not discussing abortion, I was discussing the Christian churches actions against women who had been raped, but a nice attempt to deflect and utterly ignore the points raised.

What was that you were saying about people ignoring half of what you actually said? You just managed 100%.

 

[JMoney]

what is it about Hinduism that seems so far-fetched?

Too many gods; it seems unrealistic to me.

 

[ImaRobot]

Too many gods; it seems unrealistic to me.

But God, Jesus, The Virgin Mary, the Devil, angels, and demons are realistic?

 

[Dennisch]

Talking snake. Talking burning bush.

Edit.

Balaam's talking donkey.

 

[Famine]

Too many gods; it seems unrealistic to me.

That's the same problem many other people have with the Abrahamic religions...

 

[Scaff]

Talking snake. Talking burning bush.

Edit.

Balaam's talking donkey.

Lazy fig trees that need to be cursed (that's my favorite).

 

[Dennisch]

Lazy fig trees that need to be cursed (that's my favorite).

"A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

 

[TheCracker]

Too many gods; it seems unrealistic to me.

Is two or more magic sky men that much more unrealistic than just the one magic sky man?

 

[huskeR32]

It's impossible to gain any sort of favorable outcome when you're debating a group of people that will ignore half of what you say and then respond with a passage from your own book in order to make their argument appear stronger, and then repeatedly accuse you of cherry picking. I tried to have a sensible debate on this thread, for once, by asking a simple question. Not sure why I expected that to work. I'm going to stop letting you make me look like a fool and pray for you instead. God is wiser than any of us, and I hope my failed attempts at apologetics won't keep you from seeing the light.

Lots of stuff, only one small part of which was about abortion

If you want to discuss abortion, there's another thread for that.

 

[DK]

Whenever I read something like "I'll pray for you" in a discussion on the Internet, it seems so passive-aggressive to me.

 

[JMoney]

Whenever I read something like "I'll pray for you" in a discussion on the Internet, it seems so passive-aggressive to me.

Why? It's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[DK]

Why? It's exactly what I'm doing.

It reads like a snooty attempt to claim superiority - if someone says they'll pray for them because they're on the opposite side of a debate, it's them showing condescending pity.

 

[Dennisch]

But it's useless since us non-believers will go to Hell anyway.

 

[JMoney]

It reads like a snooty attempt to claim superiority - if someone says they'll pray for them because they're on the opposite side of a debate, it's them showing condescending pity.

But it's useless since us non-believers will go to Hell anyway.

I'm praying that you'll realize God is real and accept Christ as your savior. I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm trying to make amends and stop debating.

 

[dddsprayshop]

But it's useless since us non-believers will go to Hell anyway.

Heaven and hell are the same place.
People that love it are in heaven, people that hate it are in hell.
Just like our planet..and sometimes you are rewarded and sometimes you are punished.
When i'm dead, i probably end up as a poltergeist.

 

[Denur]

I'm trying to make amends

For what?

 

[TheCracker]

Whenever I read something like "I'll pray for you" in a discussion on the Internet, it seems so passive-aggressive to me.

It could also be taken as offensive. You wouldn't want a satanist to say 'I'll sacrifice a goat for you' even if they genuinely meant well.

I'm trying to make amends and stop debating.

I don't think anyone thinks you have any need to make any amends. The whole point of the thread is to debate!

 

[mistersafeway]

I'm praying that you'll realize God is real and accept Christ as your savior.

Which god and which christ? Neither are names, but descriptions. Oh, 💡 you mean the god who killed more than his "evil" counterpart who only killed a few people, on the aforementioned god's orders no less, and the christ who destroyed a fig tree just because he was hungry. No, I'm good thanks.

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm trying to make amends and stop debating.

No, you're trying to skip the convincing arguments and go straight to the brainwashing. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd appreciate it if you were at least more honest than your god and church.

 

[Com Fox]

Talking snake. Talking burning bush.

Edit.

Balaam's talking donkey.

My brother made a joking theory that was a marijuana bush

A crazy story I heard when I was in Christian School was that when someone was blind, Jesus threw mud on his eyes. After the guy washed it away. He was no longer blind!? (Still confuses me to this day)

 

[JMoney]

No, you're trying to skip the convincing arguments and go straight to the brainwashing.

I'm not brainwashing you, I'm trying to convince you God is real so you can be saved!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd appreciate it if you were at least more honest than your god and church.

How am I being dishonest, of all things?

 

[Jet Badger]

I'm not brainwashing you, I'm trying to convince you God is real so you can be saved!

Well... Despite the total lack of objectively convincing material that you've presented so far, saved from what exactly?

 

[Com Fox]

I'm not brainwashing you, I'm trying to convince you God is real so you can be saved!

That's pretty much the Christian brainwashing technique.

 

[JMoney]

That's pretty much the Christian brainwashing technique.

It's called evangelism.

Well... Despite the total lack of objectively convincing material that you've presented so far, saved from what exactly?

Hell.

 

[Com Fox]

It's called evangelism.

Had to Google that word . It's been nearly 10 years since I went to a Christian School where I was brainwashed.

Do we even know what Hells like?

 

[JMoney]

Do we even know what Hells like?

Unpleasant, to say the least. It's where Satan, or the Devil, lives, along with demons. It's very dark and fiery.

 

[mistersafeway]

My brother made a joking theory that was a marijuana bush

A crazy story I heard when I was in Christian School was that when someone was blind, Jesus threw mud on his eyes. After the guy washed it away. He was no longer blind!? (Still confuses me to this day)

I can think of three explanations straight off, it was a lie/"story", Jesus threw mud in someone's eyes because he was being mean (Lo! He doth see [how great I am] now! ), or the man had conjunctivitis and was too stupid to just clean his eyes.

I'm not brainwashing you, I'm trying to convince you God is real so you can be saved!

I did say trying, although I concede brainwashing may have been a little harsh, but how else to describe an attempt to convince someone of an illogical thing without evidence or reasoned debate?

How am I being dishonest, of all things?

Dishonest about your motives for wishing to stop debating. You appear to be claiming that it's because you're right, when it's pretty obvious the real reason is because you have no convincing arguments.

It's called evangelism.

Which is generally used for brainwashing purposes and speaking to converts.

Hell.

Haven't heard that argument 100 times already.

 

[JMoney]

Haven't heard that argument 100 times already.

Why else would I be here debating? I don't want anyone to go to hell, especially car guys.

 

[Com Fox]

Unpleasant, to say the least. It's where Satan, or the Devil, lives, along with demons. It's very dark and fiery.

Any evidence to highlight what it looks like.

If anything it could be a nice place and Satan turns out to be a nice dude who stood up against God for being the real mean guy. I don't see much evidence to go against that.