Do you believe in God?

[Scaff]

I don't follow the islamic jesus...

I didn't say you did. Jesus was quite clear in regard to the old laws in Matthew.

 

[DCP]

I didn't say you did. Jesus was quite clear in regard to the old laws in Matthew.

Back to the beginning hey? It's the end we need to be ready for...

Lets try again. Very hard to grasp, especially without Christ being your chief Cornerstone.

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html


@Scaff

It's like saying this verse is a contradiction:

Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

You will say 2000 years ago, the world was supposed to end, yet it didn't.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If you don't understand Christianity and what Jesus did for you, then you would have all the issues you mentioned

What do you say to Jesus making it clear that Adultery was not a sin (Matthew 27), his repealment of the Shabbat law (Matthew 3:16) or his entire renouncing of the Law of Moses in Ephesians 2:18.

If you take the view that you observe the letter of the bible then you enter a mighty paradox; the Old Testament ceases to be relevant or factual (and the god therein) and thence you arguably destroy the very teachings/beliefs that give life to the New Testament. To follow the new testament is to accept that God has been wrong before.. another schism.

It's that spirit of blatant self-contradiction and cherry-picked law that makes the Christian bible in its entirety such a nonsense-of-convenience when compared to other religious texts. Even the old covenant makes sense when viewed as an expression of law, magic-sky-man aside.

I suspect from reading these threads that you've had a convenient view sold to you with the promise of the same benefits that wowed the poor, uneducated citizens of 1,000 years ago and, just like them, you haven't put any brain-effort into really reading and researching the documentation (in fact the only two documents).

Your answers (when you give them) are becoming increasingly patronising and/or evasive. In fact, I wonder if you're beginning to have doubts about the person who is selling you this idea and taking 10% of your money for the privilege.

 

[Scaff]

Back to the beginning hey? It's the end we need to be ready for...

Lets try again. Very hard to grasp, especially without Christ being your chief Cornerstone.

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

Its not hard to grasp the lengths some theists will go to to make the words fit what they want, which you can kind of fudge until you get to the next bit:

"until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished"

Which confirms that the old laws stand (to the letter) until the end of days (when Jesus comes back and murders anyone who doesn't follow him blindly - regardless of how good they have been).

Also if what you say is correct then why does every church I have ever set foot in have the Ten Commandments in it?

It's like saying this verse is a contradiction:

Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

You will say 2000 years ago, the world was supposed to end, yet it didn't.

It's not like saying its a contradiction, it is a contradiction.

One of many in the Bible (how long does it take a Fig tree to wither again?).

 

[The McMerc]

What do you say to Jesus making it clear that Adultery was not a sin (Matthew 27), his repealment of the Shabbat law (Matthew 3:16) or his entire renouncing of the Law of Moses in Ephesians 2:18.

If you take the view that you observe the letter of the bible then you enter a mighty paradox; the Old Testament ceases to be relevant or factual (and the god therein) and thence you arguably destroy the very teachings/beliefs that give life to the New Testament. To follow the new testament is to accept that God has been wrong before.. another schism.

It's that spirit of blatant self-contradiction and cherry-picked law that makes the Christian bible in its entirety such a nonsense-of-convenience when compared to other religious texts. Even the old covenant makes sense when viewed as an expression of law, magic-sky-man aside.

I suspect from reading these threads that you've had a convenient view sold to you with the promise of the same benefits that wowed the poor, uneducated citizens of 1,000 years ago and, just like them, you haven't put any brain-effort into really reading and researching the documentation (in fact the only two documents).

Your answers (when you give them) are becoming increasingly patronising and/or evasive. In fact, I wonder if you're beginning to have doubts about the person who is selling you this idea and taking 10% of your money for the privilege.

Thank you! The fact that my question on wearing clothes woven out of two different materials could not be answered is a testament (no pun intended) to this.

 

[DCP]

What do you say to Jesus making it clear that Adultery was not a sin (Matthew 27), his repealment of the Shabbat law (Matthew 3:16) or his entire renouncing of the Law of Moses in Ephesians 2:18.

If you take the view that you observe the letter of the bible then you enter a mighty paradox; the Old Testament ceases to be relevant or factual (and the god therein) and thence you arguably destroy the very teachings/beliefs that give life to the New Testament. To follow the new testament is to accept that God has been wrong before.. another schism.

It's that spirit of blatant self-contradiction and cherry-picked law that makes the Christian bible in its entirety such a nonsense-of-convenience when compared to other religious texts. Even the old covenant makes sense when viewed as an expression of law, magic-sky-man aside.

I suspect from reading these threads that you've had a convenient view sold to you with the promise of the same benefits that wowed the poor, uneducated citizens of 1,000 years ago and, just like them, you haven't put any brain-effort into really reading and researching the documentation (in fact the only two documents).

Your answers (when you give them) are becoming increasingly patronising and/or evasive. In fact, I wonder if you're beginning to have doubts about the person who is selling you this idea and taking 10% of your money for the privilege.

Oooh, I'm now directly rebuking.

Anyway, please be specific on Matthew 27 and adultery again?
Again, the law of the old covenant is for "THE JEWS" and not for the christians and salvation.
My answers is supposed to annoy those not of Christ, who refuse to surrender, else what is the point?
Again, your opinion is exactly that, yours alone to deal with.
Be of good cheer though, because you keep asking, means you fighting it to learn something, else you wouldn't bother...


@Scaff

Also if what you say is correct then why does every church I have ever set foot in have the Ten Commandments in it?


DCP said
It's like saying this verse is a contradiction:

Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

You will say 2000 years ago, the world was supposed to end, yet it didn't.
It's not like saying its a contradiction, it is a contradiction.

One of many in the Bible (how long does it take a Fig tree to wither again?).

Because the commandments are given it's fullness in the New covenant.
It will wither for as long as you eventually understand it's context...
It's not all that easy unless you:

Seek he "first" the Kingdom of God, and His "righteousness", THEN all things will be added unto you. Peace

 

[Scaff]

Because the commandments are given it's fullness in the New covenant.
It will wither for as long as you eventually understand it's context...
It's not all that easy unless you:

Answer the questions, don't preach and lay off the patronizing tone while you do so.

If the old Laws are only for Jews then why do Christian Churches have the Ten Commandments in them and why are Christian children taught them?

Answer that question and do so in a direct and straightforward manner.

 

[squadops]

Salvation through faith, reward through works. That is what you will find in the Protestant churches I am familiar with at least.

 

[DCP]

Answer the questions, don't preach and lay off the patronizing tone while you do so.

If the old Laws are only for Jews then why do Christian Churches have the Ten Commandments in them and why are Christian children taught them?

Answer that question and do so in a direct and straightforward manner.

I did answer. I said it is because they are brought up in it's fullest, in the New testament. I'll give you one in it's fullest.

Ephesians 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.…

Notice the difference. Obey your parents "IN THE LORD". There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids, abusive, vulgar etc. How can a child obey this parent? A parent who knows the Lord "completely", a child can obey and learn from.

Salvation through faith, reward through works. That is what you will find in the Protestant churches I am familiar with at least.

Yes, but then there is also a whole other world for Christians to understand before receiving Gods full promises.
Salvation is key first, obviously.

 

[Famine]

There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids

Is that prohibited in the Bible?

abusive

Oh I know. I heard about this guy who raped his own daughter, but he paid himself 50 pieces of silver so it's all okay now.


Wait...

 

[Com Fox]

I did answer. I said it is because they are brought up in it's fullest, in the New testament. I'll give you one in it's fullest.

Ephesians 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.…

Notice the difference. Obey your parents "IN THE LORD". There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids, abusive, vulgar etc. How can a child obey this parent? A parent who knows the Lord "completely", a child can obey and learn from.



Yes, but then there is also a whole other world for Christians to understand before receiving Gods full promises.
Salvation is key first, obviously.

You're forgetting the line in the Bible that says the Parents are allowed to kill the Child if they Swear... practically highlighting that every Parent is abusive .

 

[Carbonox]

I did answer. I said it is because they are brought up in it's fullest, in the New testament. I'll give you one in it's fullest.

Ephesians 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.…

Notice the difference. Obey your parents "IN THE LORD". There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids, abusive, vulgar etc. How can a child obey this parent? A parent who knows the Lord "completely", a child can obey and learn from.



Yes, but then there is also a whole other world for Christians to understand before receiving Gods full promises.
Salvation is key first, obviously.

Oh, of course! Of course Hana Williams would've lived long on earth if she had just been a good Christian child and honored her parents just a little more!

 

[The McMerc]

I did answer. I said it is because they are brought up in it's fullest, in the New testament. I'll give you one in it's fullest.

Ephesians 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.…

Notice the difference. Obey your parents "IN THE LORD". There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids, abusive, vulgar etc. How can a child obey this parent? A parent who knows the Lord "completely", a child can obey and learn from.



Yes, but then there is also a whole other world for Christians to understand before receiving Gods full promises.
Salvation is key first, obviously.

Honestly you're fighting a losing battle.

 

[DCP]

You're forgetting the line in the Bible that says the Parents are allowed to kill the Child if they Swear... practically highlighting that every Parent is abusive .

Would love to see that in the New Covenant.

Oh, of course! Of course Hana Williams would've lived long on earth if she had just been a good Christian child and honored her parents just a little more!

Why would she honor an abusive father? Children inherit the Kingdom of heaven. Guess what?

Honestly you're fighting a losing battle.

Oooh, the beauty of opinion.

 

[Scaff]

I did answer. I said it is because they are brought up in it's fullest, in the New testament. I'll give you one in it's fullest.

Ephesians 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.…

Notice the difference. Obey your parents "IN THE LORD". There are parents that are doing drugs in front of kids, abusive, vulgar etc. How can a child obey this parent? A parent who knows the Lord "completely", a child can obey and learn from.



Yes, but then there is also a whole other world for Christians to understand before receiving Gods full promises.
Salvation is key first, obviously.

Why are you now shouting at me? Stop doing so now or you are going to get a holiday from GTP for the weekend.

No, you have not answered the question at all, if what you say was correct then churches would have the NT verse up on the wall, they do not, they have the OT 10 commandments (which are the old laws only for Jews according to you).

 

[Com Fox]

Oooh, the beauty of opinion.

Stuff like this, is what makes you too blind to see the bigger picture.

 

[The McMerc]

Oooh, the beauty of opinion.

Indeed, the whole idea of this forum - to share opinions.

 

[DCP]

Why are you now shouting at me? Stop doing so now or you are going to get a holiday from GTP for the weekend.

No, you have not answered the question at all, if what you say was correct then churches would have the NT verse up on the wall, they do not, they have the OT 10 commandments (which are the old laws only for Jews according to you).

So sorry, it was the copy and paste.
As far as I know, the church is just the building. The Real Church is the Body of Christ, the Saints (born again Christians). Having a Cross, or two tablets of the old or new commandments, or a picture of the Last Supper in the building, should be just that. A decoration. If such things are distracting the congregation, then someone needs to speak to the Pastor. The Cross and the commandments should really be placed in a persons heart.

@The McMerc
Lets test that. What would you say if you were told that which you told me?

 

[The McMerc]

So sorry, it was the copy and paste.
As far as I know, the church is just the building. The Real Church is the Body of Christ, the Saints (born again Christians). Having a Cross, or two tablets of the old or new commandments, or a picture of the Last Supper in the building, should be just that. A decoration. If such things are distracting the congregation, then someone needs to speak to the Pastor. The Cross and the commandments should really be placed in a persons heart.

Oh please...As someone who goes to a Christian high school I can say right now that is a complete load of nonsense. I am always asked to "observe the various symbols" when I am in a church. I fail to believe that they're simply "decorations" especially something as important as the Ten Commandments.

@DCP I would argue my case in a justified and respectful way. I don't see your point.

 

[Scaff]

So sorry, it was the copy and paste.
As far as I know, the church is just the building. The Real Church is the Body of Christ, the Saints (born again Christians). Having a Cross, or two tablets of the old or new commandments, or a picture of the Last Supper in the building, should be just that. A decoration. If such things are distracting the congregation, then someone needs to speak to the Pastor. The Cross and the commandments should really be placed in a persons heart.

Still doesn't answer the question. These are not just decorations.

The Ten Commandments are taught to Christians, that's not decoration it's instruction (the name kind of gives it away).

 

[Com Fox]

So sorry, it was the copy and paste.
As far as I know, the church is just the building. The Real Church is the Body of Christ, the Saints (born again Christians). Having a Cross, or two tablets of the old or new commandments, or a picture of the Last Supper in the building, should be just that. A decoration. If such things are distracting the congregation, then someone needs to speak to the Pastor. The Cross and the commandments should really be placed in a persons heart.

@The McMerc
Lets test that. What would you say if you were told that which you told me?

Yet words a fine to shove down our throats...

 

[squadops]

Well I gave him the answer but he didn't want to accept it

 

[DCP]

Oh please...As someone who goes to a Christian high school I can say right now that is a complete load of nonsense. I am always asked to "observe the various symbols" when I am in a church. I fail to believe that they're simply "decorations" especially something as important as the Ten Commandments.

@DCP I would argue my case in a justified and respectful way. I don't see your point.

Still doesn't answer the question. These are not just decorations.

The Ten Commandments are taught to Christians, that's not decoration it's instruction (the name kind of gives it away).

The bible says God is Spirit, and can only be Worshiped in Spirit
Being taught to observe what is naturally placed on the walls means nothing. It's becomes the same indoctrination as any other religion.
God cannot be bribed by material things.
I've said it before, a person can recite the Bible, or memorize all of the commandments on the wall, but if they truly don't know Christ in their "hearts", then they have serious distraction issues that they need to get rid of.

John 4:24
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

You know, the beauty of God is, He loves you just as much as He loves me, even though you have no interest in Him.

 

[Com Fox]

Still waiting for a proper answer......

 

[The McMerc]

The bible says God is Spirit, and can only be Worshiped in Spirit
Being taught to observe what is naturally placed on the walls means nothing. It's becomes the same indoctrination as any other religion.
God cannot be bribed by material things.
I've said it before, a person can recite the Bible, or memorize all of the commandments on the wall, but if they truly don't know Christ in their "hearts", then they have serious distraction issues that they need to get rid of.

John 4:24
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

You know, the beauty of God is, He loves you just as much as He loves me, even though you have no interest in Him.

So if the church is only spiritual and everything in a physical church is simply decoration, and God can only be worshipped spiritually, then why in the world am I expected to go to this big wooden structure, (which I am taught is a church), and worship there for an hour and a half every week?

@DCP ? You're getting into a bad habit of not answering questions...

 

[Famine]

John 4:24
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 4:24
"God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Two completely different meanings there - your version suggests God is a characteristic (from context that characteristic being life itself) and many others suggest he's a ghost... Meanwhile the Wycliffe Bible substitutes "behoove" in place of "must" - the suggestion that it would benefit one more from doing so, rather than an explicit instruction.


It's almost like the different agendas of the different versions can be read right off the page and you're just picking the agenda of the translator you like (or someone taught you to like) rather than the original intent of the writer.

 

[DCP]

So if the church is only spiritual and everything in a physical church is simply decoration, and God should only be worshiped spiritually, then why in the world am I expected to go to this big wooden structure, (which I am taught is a church), and worship there for an hour and a half every week?

Because it's good to fellowship with the brethren. Do you socialize before and after church with total strangers?

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

That's why there are things like Home-cell, bible studies, prayer night etc.
I do much of that at home though. The world is so modern, we watch most of it on TV, Sid Roth, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, John Hagee, Jesse Du Plantis, and my favorite, Perry Stone.

@Famine
Holy Spirit is key man. It leads one into all truth. The Spirit is key and is vital.
You will be able to discern anything false, not of God. This is where non believers lose us completely unfortunately, instead of pursuing it.

Like I said, there are many bibles popping up, true, false and deceptive.

 

[The McMerc]

Because it's good to fellowship with the brethren. Do you socialize before and after church with total strangers?

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

That's why there are things like Home-cell, bible studies, prayer night etc.
I do much of that at home though. The world is so modern, we watch most of it on TV, Sid Roth, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, John Hagee, Jesse Du Plantis, and my favorite, Perry Stone.

No, I try and get away as soon as possible. Anyway, it seems to me that the whole point of going to church is to worship, at least when I've been there that's been the main focus. This completely contradicts what you said before. By your logic, I have no need to go to church at all. If I want to socialise with other "brethren" then I don't have to go to a church to do that, and according to you god can only be worshipped in spirit, so please tell me why there is a need to go to church.

 

[Scaff]

The bible says God is Spirit, and can only be Worshiped in Spirit
Being taught to observe what is naturally placed on the walls means nothing. It's becomes the same indoctrination as any other religion.
God cannot be bribed by material things.
I've said it before, a person can recite the Bible, or memorize all of the commandments on the wall, but if they truly don't know Christ in their "hearts", then they have serious distraction issues that they need to get rid of.

John 4:24
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

You know, the beauty of God is, He loves you just as much as He loves me, even though you have no interest in Him.

So you are either unable or unwilling to answer the question.

 

[Imari]

You guys are missing the point.
God gave us all the attributes. How we use them is our free will.

And the free will is the important bit. That was the bit that decided whether or not the doctor diagnosed and treated you, whether or not your company paid you, whether or not other people will help you start your business.

God may have given them the tools, but it's the people doing all the hard work. I don't send Black and Decker thank you notes for building my house, I thank the builder. I'm grateful to the construction workers for making the roads, not Komatsu. I sent gifts to the doctor that healed me, not his professor or his university.

Yes, there's a whole line of things that had to happen to put those people in the situations where they were able to do the work that they did, but they were the individuals that actually decided to put in the hard work, and so normal people credit them for that.

If I give you a lawnmower, and you use it to mow your neighbour's lawn, your neighbours shouldn't be thanking me.

God may have made people what they are, but free will means that people choose what to do with that. Which means that it's the people who make good stuff happen, not God. Just as it's people who decide to make bad stuff happen.

You can't blame the bad on people and the good on God. You're cherry picking like a mofo, and it's not right. Either we have free will and the people who chose to help you are responsible for their own good acts, or we don't and God is. You can't have this both ways.