Do you believe in God?

[Scaff]

Like I said, there are many bibles popping up, true, false and deceptive.

You mean like your one, as the one I mentioned is the oldest in existence

 

[Aphelion]

Ok, let us not get spiteful now...

 

[DCP]

No, I try and get away as soon as possible. Anyway, it seems to me that the whole point of going to church is to worship, at least when I've been there that's been the main focus. This completely contradicts what you said before. By your logic, I have no need to go to church at all. If I want to socialise with other "brethren" then I don't have to go to a church to do that, and according to you god can only be worshipped in spirit, so please tell me why there is a need to go to church.

You lost me when I said socialize and fellowship. Stay with me now...
You fellowship with people during service, and perhaps socialize after church, even if for a few minutes.
Jesus said, " When two or three and gathered, I am there in the midst"
I'm starting to wonder, have you ever seen anyone filled with the Spirit in your church?

 

[The McMerc]

Ok, let us not get spiteful now...

Oh, but that's what makes it entertaining!

You lost me when I said socialize and fellowship. Stay with me now...
You fellowship with people during service, and perhaps socialize after church, even if for a few minutes.
Jesus said, " When two or three and gathered, I am there in the midst"
I'm starting to wonder, have you ever seen anyone filled with the Spirit in your church?

No, I didn't lose you...what I was saying was that if going to church is all about socialising and having fellowship with brethren (I hate that word) then why is it necessary to go through a whole service devoted to worshipping god when that can only be done in spirit, not in a physical church?

 

[Aphelion]

Oh, but that's what makes it entertaining!

Not for the person who is on the other end, even in 'spite' of his bests attempts to remain diplomatic.

 

[The McMerc]

Not for the person who is on the other end, even in 'spite' of his bests attempts to remain diplomatic.

Haha no, I was joking. I too would prefer if all debates remained diplomatic.

 

[Aphelion]

Haha no, I was joking. I too would prefer if all debates remained diplomatic.

Good.

 

[Scaff]

Not for the person who is on the other end, even in 'spite' of his bests attempts to remain diplomatic.

The diplomatic person who said I was being controlled by the devil and would kill myself? That diplomatic person?

 

[Aphelion]

The diplomatic person who said I was being controlled by the devil and would kill myself? That diplomatic person?

If he genuinely believes that you have been controlled by the devil then he is still technically being diplomatic...

 

[DCP]

Oh, but that's what makes it entertaining!

No, I didn't lose you...what I was saying was that if going to church is all about socialising and having fellowship with brethren (I hate that word) then why is it necessary to go through a whole service devoted to worshipping god when that can only be done in spirit, not in a physical church?

Socializing "before", and "after" church.
Worshiping the Lord, "during" the service, while in "fellowship" with the "Spiritual" church. Not the physical building.
Lets try again. The "church", is the body of Christ.

To answer your question in the natural, you can worship on an empty field if you want.
Where do you think early Christians worshiped Christ before church buildings were built? Anywhere convenient.
The church building, is called the House of God. It can be distinguished by anyone who wants to enter it.


@Scaff
Led by him unknowingly, ultimately leading to spiritual death, yes. The spiritual death you say doesn't exist because you don't see evidence...

 

[Scaff]

If he genuinely believes that you have been controlled by the devil then he is still technically being diplomatic...

So you find it acceptable and diplomatic to tell people that they will commit suicide?

 

[The McMerc]

Socializing "before", and "after" church.
Worshiping the Lord, "during" the service, while in "fellowship" with the "Spiritual" church. Not the physical building.
Lets try again. The "church", is the body of Christ.

To answer your question in the natural, you can worship on an empty field if you want.
Where do you think early Christians worshiped Christ before church buildings were built? Anywhere convenient.
The church building, is called the House of God. It can be distinguished by anyone who wants to enter it.


@Scaff
Led by him unknowingly, ultimately leading to spiritual death, yes. The spiritual death you say doesn't exist because you don't see evidence...

So would you say that the physical building would be called a church? Because that's what I've been led to believe.

 

[Aphelion]

So you find it acceptable and diplomatic to tell people that they will commit suicide?

no, but that is from a logical standpoint. But either way, i don't know why we are having this discussion considering what i originally said is "Ok, let us not get spiteful now...". I wasn't saying that to just you, i was saying it to everyone. I had not read the comment about you being controlled by the devil, but what i said still applies to it.

 

[Scaff]

no, but that is from a logical standpoint. But either way, i don't know why we are having this discussion considering what i originally said is "Ok, let us not get spiteful now...". I wasn't saying that to just you, i was saying it to everyone. I had not read the comment about you being controlled by the devil, but what i said still applies to it.

And you are not a member of staff here, so please don't play the role.

If you think a post breaks the AUP report it.

 

[Aphelion]

And you are not a member of staff here, so please don't play the role.

If you think a post breaks the AUP report it.

Errr mate, i don't think you are reading me in the right way here...

 

[Scaff]

Errr mate, i don't think you are reading me in the right way here...

Your instructing members on how to behave, I'm reading it just fine.

 

[Aphelion]

Your instructing members on how to behave, I'm reading it just fine.

i don't think this is the correct place for this conversation...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Anyway, please be specific on Matthew 27 and adultery again?

Apologies, 5:27, a man who looks at a woman with lechery has already committed adultery. In this way the Bible is interpreted to demonstrate that some of the OT commandments (particularly 7, I think) are unsustainable.

Again, the law of the old covenant is for "THE JEWS" and not for the christians and salvation.

And Jesus is the Son and Embodiment of the God of that covenant, yet Christians accept that the OT God is flawed and was incorrect.

If the laws of the OT are for the Jews and for neither Christians nor salvation then why do we read in Matthew 5 that

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

That seems to me to be a fine example of cherry-picking.

Be of good cheer though, because you keep asking, means you fighting it to learn something, else you wouldn't bother...

Pure patrony aside...you should think that reply through. Why else might I bother?

 

[Famine]

Holy Spirit is key man. It leads one into all truth. The Spirit is key and is vital.
You will be able to discern anything false, not of God. This is where non believers lose us completely unfortunately, instead of pursuing it.

Like I said, there are many bibles popping up, true, false and deceptive

And you know that your one isn't deceiving you because...?

 

[dylansan]

So you are either unable or unwilling to answer the question.

That certainly is a surprise!

Maybe instead of getting an answer, you'd prefer to recieve an hour long video unrelated to your question which supports his views. That would be fine, right? Right? And then you can be accused of not wanting to learn anything.

 

[Spurgy 777]

And you know that your one isn't deceiving you because...?

He is being extremely arrogant.

have you ever seen anyone filled with the Spirit in your church?

You mean drunk?

 

[Exorcet]

Here, maybe this will help you guys understand. I know how difficult it is to, with natural eyes though. I've been there.

Having received the Holy Spirit while accepting Jesus I've been where you are. None of it is true, and none of it works. You aren't really in a position to claim that you've been in my current shoes because you don't share any of my views so far as I can tell.

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other

How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers.

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

It's clear God is warning all of us of bad things happening, and bad things to come.

No, that's the problem. This is not clear at all. What is happening is this: A book is making a claim and not providing anything to support the claim. This makes the book irrelevant. To follow its advice is to put many in grave danger, so there isn't really an incentive to follow the book unless you just don't care very much about other people.

If you want your questions answered, at least try reading with an open heart, instead of fulfilling prophecy all the time.. Here http://www.gotquestions.org/bad-things-good-people.html
It's pretty clear and straight to the point.

This supports what I say above. No proof for God, no logical reasoning applied to what he allegedly says. Instead, we're just to accept that we all deserve whatever happens to us and that God, despite being able to step in and stop out (all without violating our free will) is morally correct for standing around and doing nothing. The same act would spark outrage if done by a person while a young child near by dashed out into a highway.

"Job did not understand why God had allowed the things He did, but he knew God was good and therefore continued to trust in Him. Ultimately, that should be our reaction as well."

Following this logic, we should do nothing about earthquakes and flooding, even if we can. We shouldn't even resist the anti-christ. We're just supposed to sit back, ignore our (supposedly God given) intelligence, and suffer.

I mean, if a man could not give up on God in this condition, how much more for you who has everything?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Vujicic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Vujicic
What is the point here? He may have suffered quite a bit but that doesn't make his religion true. He suffered and clinged to lies, some people will do that.

So I ask you, if science is sharp, why can't they warn people in areas where is will happen?
I'll tell you, because there is someone sharper that you'll temporarily block out.

And that someone sharper doesn't warn people either?

Scientists don't claim to know anything. They will do what they can. It's pretty simple. You can't expect someone to do something impossible.

You see, man cannot stop the inevitable, no matter how much blood, sweat and tears come out of him.

That's obvious. What we can do though, is try to determine what is inevitable. And at the moment, this is not:

the world has fallen, clear that people can escape it through Jesus, and it's also clear that no man is forced to do so.

Both because there is no proof and because it contradicts itself as God is forcing everyone to obey him with the threat of fire.

 

[DCP]

So would you say that the physical building would be called a church? Because that's what I've been led to believe.

Yes.

Apologies, 5:27, a man who looks at a woman with lechery has already committed adultery. In this way the Bible is interpreted to demonstrate that some of the OT commandments (particularly 7, I think) are unsustainable.



And Jesus is the Son and Embodiment of the God of that covenant, yet Christians accept that the OT God is flawed and was incorrect.

If the laws of the OT are for the Jews and for neither Christians nor salvation then why do we read in Matthew 5 that



That seems to me to be a fine example of cherry-picking.



Pure patrony aside...you should think that reply through. Why else might I bother?

Not sure what your thinking, but you are allowed to interpret adultery how you must, because without believing in God, you just won't get it unfortunately. Perhaps begin with "seeking "First", the kingdom of God and........
You tell me why you bothering, if you know you're not interested in God?

And you know that your one isn't deceiving you because...?

After years of the flesh, my home and my heart is cleaned completely, from the desires of the world. Just for the asking, and for change, only God can rescue a person from such things.
Whatever I do, or go, I know my last breath here on earth, will be my first with Christ.
Trying to compare and use other people as examples don't work. Start with your own heart, and not using your own standards.

Having received the Holy Spirit while accepting Jesus I've been where you are. None of it is true, and none of it works. You aren't really in a position to claim that you've been in my current shoes because you don't share any of my views so far as I can tell.

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.




No, that's the problem. This is not clear at all. What is happening is this: A book is making a claim and not providing anything to support the claim. This makes the book irrelevant. To follow its advice is to put many in grave danger, so there isn't really an incentive to follow the book unless you just don't care very much about other people.



This supports what I say above. No proof for God, no logical reasoning applied to what he allegedly says. Instead, we're just to accept that we all deserve whatever happens to us and that God, despite being able to step in and stop out (all without violating our free will) is morally correct for standing around and doing nothing. The same act would spark outrage if done by a person while a young child near by dashed out into a highway.

"Job did not understand why God had allowed the things He did, but he knew God was good and therefore continued to trust in Him. Ultimately, that should be our reaction as well."

Following this logic, we should do nothing about earthquakes and flooding, even if we can. We shouldn't even resist the anti-christ. We're just supposed to sit back, ignore our (supposedly God given) intelligence, and suffer.

What is the point here? He may have suffered quite a bit but that doesn't make his religion true. He suffered and clinged to lies, some people will do that.



And that someone sharper doesn't warn people either?

Scientists don't claim to know anything. They will do what they can. It's pretty simple. You can't expect someone to do something impossible.


That's obvious. What we can do though, is try to determine what is inevitable. And at the moment, this is not:



Both because there is no proof and because it contradicts itself as God is forcing everyone to obey him with the threat of fire.

Ever heard of false Christianity? You've never been where I am. If it doesn't work for you, that's just you. You cannot worship God and mammon. So try again, if you understand what that means.
You choice to dis-own God, that is seriously your issue to deal with. I see you've allowed mankind to help you make that decision as well.
Obviously the prophecies don't matter to you, salvation either. So is there any point going further, because you already seem to "know" what doesn't work for you anymore.? I don't think so, unless you want to try again.

Also very good, Job is a perfect example. After all his pain and suffering, he received everything and more, and more so, in the Kingdom of God. Each man can speak for himself, though I've suffered and had tough times, but today I've conquered it all. All because I've trusted in the Lord, and His favour is upon me.


@Imari

Must I thank the clients that have given me the change to treble my wages, or thank their suppliers all over the world?
You don't make any sense, but it's obvious, because we share two different world views.
All I know is, seek he First, and all shall be added. God places people around us, to bless us. While giving all praise to God for Him keeping His promises, we show gratefulness to the people God uses. Those people don't know that God is using them. As much as it may have been tough at my previous job, I was still grateful to have a job, and still asked God to bless the people around me, even in their bad ways.

You've never asked God to bless anyone around you, because you agree with Darwin and science that He doesn't exist.
Think about that one.

 

[Famine]

After years of the flesh, my home and my heart is cleaned completely, from the desires of the world. Just for the asking, and for change, only God can rescue a person from such things.

Or a powerful being that is deceiving you into thinking that it is god.

How can you tell?

 

[DCP]

Or a powerful being that is deceiving you into thinking that it is god.

How can you tell?

If it's good for the heart and soul, I rather stick to this deceiving God...
If it's evil, wicked and hateful, oh I would be able to tell straight away.
Each man for himself. Forget about what the world is doing. They can't decide for the other.

 

[Famine]

If it's good for the heart and soul, I rather stick to this deceiving God...

That'll be a fun sentence for you to read back to yourself.

If it's evil, wicked and hateful, oh I would be able to tell straight away.

How? Why do you think you have the wisdom, intellect and knowledge to tell when an evil superior being is misleading you into thinking you're worshipping a good superior being and when you're actually worshipping a good superior being - but no-one else does?

The only things that make you think you're on the right side is a book (that could be a deception), the people who interpret it for you (who could be evil spirits in disguise) and the trust that everything good coming your way is because of goodness and not a temptation into evil. After all, what better way to tempt someone than to give them what they desire - and what better way to keep them ignorant of the fact than to tell them they cannot question it if it is good?

 

[The McMerc]

Beautifully said.

 

[DCP]

That'll be a fun sentence for you to read back to yourself.How? Why do you think you have the wisdom, intellect and knowledge to tell when an evil superior being is misleading you into thinking you're worshipping a good superior being and when you're actually worshipping a good superior being - but no-one else does?

The only things that make you think you're on the right side is a book (that could be a deception), the people who interpret it for you (who could be evil spirits in disguise) and the trust that everything good coming your way is because of goodness and not a temptation into evil. After all, what better way to tempt someone than to give them what they desire - and what better way to keep them ignorant of the fact than to tell them they cannot question it if it is good?

Because it must have it's evil wicked intent, else what's the use.
A being already has that job, so ifs and buts and could or should just don't cut it.

 

[Famine]

Because it must have it's evil wicked intent, else what's the use.

The will of your chosen deity is, according to his own book, ineffable. You cannot know either his plan or intent - you just have to unquestioningly trust in it. It stands to reason that Satan - formerly one of his own angels - as a similarly powerful deity (albeit lesser, according to the book) would also have an ineffable will. Indeed Satan's own fall was something known to God and something he allowed to happen for reasons that you cannot ever know...

So while everything that is going nicely for you appears to be just reward for being good, it could in fact be Satan making it appear that way and tempting you into unwittingly worshipping him for unknown reasons. God could be allowing it to happen for unknown reasons too. You could reach your afterlife and have God reveal to you that all your life you have been worshipping Satan and denied entry to your afterlife paradise.

Do you believe that when Satan tempts mortals he appears in front of them saying "I am Satan, here to tempt you" - or do you believe that Satan, "The Great Deceiver", employs deceit when tempting people? It's worth noting that a lot of Christians belief you must suffer in this life to be rewarded in the next. You're claiming that you're being rewarded in this one...


You are dealing with superior beings. You cannot comprehend their will, their motives or their reasons. There is no way for you to know that you are not worshipping an evil superior being by mistake.

A being already has that job

According to the book that could be a deception and the priests who interpret it for you who could be evil spirits.

 

[DCP]

The will of your chosen deity is, according to his own book, ineffable. You cannot know either his plan or intent - you just have to unquestioningly trust in it. It stands to reason that Satan - formerly one of his own angels - as a similarly powerful deity (albeit lesser, according to the book) would also have an ineffable will. Indeed Satan's own fall was something known to God and something he allowed to happen for reasons that you cannot ever know...

So while everything that is going nicely for you appears to be just reward for being good, it could in fact be Satan making it appear that way and tempting you into unwittingly worshipping him for unknown reasons. God could be allowing it to happen for unknown reasons too. You could reach your afterlife and have God reveal to you that all your life you have been worshipping Satan and denied entry to your afterlife paradise.

Do you believe that when Satan tempts mortals he appears in front of them saying "I am Satan, here to tempt you" - or do you believe that Satan, "The Great Deceiver", employs deceit when tempting people? It's worth noting that a lot of Christians belief you must suffer in this life to be rewarded in the next. You're claiming that you're being rewarded in this one...


You are dealing with superior beings. You cannot comprehend their will, their motives or their reasons. There is no way for you to know that you are not worshipping an evil superior being by mistake.According to the book that could be a deception and the priests who interpret it for you who could be evil spirits.

That's the problem non believers have, obviously so, hence the reason non believing.
Anyway, the Bible confirms God is just and true, and He is the same yesterday, today and forever. So we can rest assured on His promises.
According to the Christian (BA), Gods prophecies came happened.

We've seen people affected by evil spirits, and those not of God.
Satan, like all other angels also have free will, and satan been given the highest post at the time, rebelled against God, like most people today, anyway, the bible confirms it, so I don't see any problem here.

Satan comes in the form of an angel to deceive people, yes, but if you don't know how to command it, how would you know if it's satan or just a normal angel? You see, wolf is sheeps clothing, ready to devour.

I have all power over satan, since I have the power of Christ in my spirit.
I admit, once upon a time satan had me, but not today, and not ever.

Which ever Christians believe they must suffer, are deluded.
We live in a world full of suffering, yet Christ says, be of good cheer, for I have over come the world.
Put your trust in Christ, and you won't have to suffer. People only expect God to help them when they need help. God is non existent when they are sinning sadly.