Do you believe in God?

[squadops]

@DCP How are those things you listed false idols?

 

[Danoff]

@DCP How are those things you listed false idols?

It's another irony of the fact that Satan wrote the bible. See, he says you should not worship false idols... even though the "real" idols represent stuff he made up and therefore they're false.

Christians are worshipping false idols they believe are real in an effort to adhere to a rule that was made up in the first place.

 

[DCP]

He wrote that so you'd think that.

Also.. how do atheism and evolution (neither of which are religions) follow the bible?

Oh, but that's the million, sorry billion dollar question isn't?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Atheism, Evolution, Satanism and Buddhism.

Are not religions.

Satanism

Requires Christianity.

Oh, but that's the million, sorry billion dollar question isn't?

Really it was a statement of obvious fact. Neither atheism nor evolution are religions.

 

[DCP]

@DCP How are those things you listed false idols?

Really. Aren't you guys tired of Bible verses that don't make sense to logic and reasoning?
The bible is my evidence bible...

Anything physical or created in the mind, that you place before the God of the bible, is an idol.

 

[squadops]

I never get tired of bible verses, if that is what you prefer to use it's fine with me. How are those things in your list false idols?

 

[Danoff]

Really. Aren't you guys tired of Bible verses that don't make sense to logic and reasoning?
The bible is my evidence bible...

Satan writing the bible to say that he didn't write the bible is your evidence that he didn't write the bible.

 

[DQuaN]

Really. Aren't you guys tired of Bible verses that don't make sense to logic and reasoning?

I've bolded the important part here...

 

[Mike458]

Really. Aren't you guys tired of Bible verses that don't make sense to logic and reasoning?

Isn't that the entire bible? Or almost all of it?

 

[Dan]

Isn't that the entire bible? Or almost all of it?

 

[Exorcet]

Ever heard of false Christianity?

Well I would say all of it is false.

You've never been where I am. If it doesn't work for you, that's just you. You cannot worship God and mammon. So try again, if you understand what that means.

No, I very much have been where you are. Christianity is based on faith. You have given up (or just never bothered) with evidence and take what claims to be the word of God as the word of God. You're not the only one to do so. What you haven't done is seen in the flaw in that reasoning. You're content to believe, so you'll continue to try and make things fit into your view. Actually seeking out the truth is prohibited (don't test God) and this is how Christianity catches people.

I've never worshiped anything in my life except God, but it was not very productive. My belief was as sincere as yours, if not more. This means that either the god of the Bible isn't there, or isn't accurately described. You can't just say "well you did it wrong" unless you can point out specifically what was wrong and show why it doesn't work.

You choice to dis-own God

Well, that could be said as accurate in a way. But if something doesn't exist, it's not really disowning, it's accepting reality.

that is seriously your issue to deal with.

It is dealt with. I simply don't believe, in anything. I only accept the truth now, and this means that if there really is a god I actually have a better chance of finding it than Christians.

I see you've allowed mankind to help you make that decision as well.

No one but me. It was a good portion of mankind that had me following Christianity in the first place. It was the people around me that I disagreed with when I left religion behind.

Obviously the prophecies don't matter to you, salvation either.

Because they aren't real.

So is there any point going further, because you already seem to "know" what doesn't work for you anymore.? I don't think so, unless you want to try again.

Well I am open to the truth, so all it would take to convince me of something is evidence. The point wasn't so much about me though, but that things aren't as simple as you make them out to be. You claim to be in a unique position and you use that to brush off things that go against what you want to see. However your position isn't very unique at all. If God was there and was so easy to find, who wouldn't accept him as real?

Also very good, Job is a perfect example. After all his pain and suffering, he received everything and more, and more so, in the Kingdom of God.

Based on reasoning you've used in the past, I'd have to ask how you know he went to heaven if you weren't there. All you have is a book with a story, something that is extremely easy to falsify. In fact you just claimed that it is often falsified (false Christianity).

Each man can speak for himself, though I've suffered and had tough times, but today I've conquered it all. All because I've trusted in the Lord, and His favour is upon me.

And there are tons of people who can say the exact same thing, except they thank some other god, or just don't follow a god at all. So how exactly are you any different?

 

[sammy neuman]

In the sense that people get out of it what they want to get out of it?

I'd agree with that, I think it works quite well when it's acting as an external justification for what people really wanted to do anyway. And fortunately, a lot of people are kind and giving and so act on the parts of the Bible that are kind and giving, and ignore the parts that aren't.

Of course, there are also people who want to believe that they're the chosen one and somehow better than everyone else, and that this justifies them mistreating others and generally being superior, but I'm fairly sure they're in a minority.

And I'm sure there are other types as well. There are probably as many different ways to interpret the Bible as there are people.

I find it an interesting thought that the Bible is not telling people how to behave, but instead people use the Bible to justify how they really wanted to behave all along. That explains a lot to me about how so many Christians can be so kind and generous, and yet how a few can be such colossal knobs while working from the same source material.

And I suppose it extends to most religions. People do what they want to do, but use what they have to hand as justification. Interesting.

Wow! I've been reading in since the last time I posted, and it's like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral, except that no one seems to be getting any hits and everyone just keeps on shooting.

Anyway, the short answer IMO is yes, one can find what one is looking for, and I think that an individual's conception of God and Jesus contributes to the shape of their interpretation. I'm pretty sure that God has a sense of humor because He more or less moons Moses at Sinai. I think of the times I had to "rebuke" my children while trying not to laugh, and it made the Bible much more fun to read and contributed greatly to my understanding of grace and forgiveness after I imagined God laughing at me. And I have to admit that I see Jesus as being pretty much like me.

Besides, the book of Job is essentially about a bet between God and Satan.

edited till I was happy with it

 

[bigbear]

I've never met anyone who really seemed to know what was going on, myself included.



" A man who knows that he is a fool is not a great fool." - Chuang Chou

 

[DCP]

I never get tired of bible verses, if that is what you prefer to use it's fine with me. How are those things in your list false idols?

Commandment two.
The moment you create something in your mind to find alternate ways to disobey / ignore Gods commands, that is an idol one creates for themselves, to please their own standards and desires.

Well I would say all of it is false.


No, I very much have been where you are. Christianity is based on faith. You have given up (or just never bothered) with evidence and take what claims to be the word of God as the word of God. You're not the only one to do so. What you haven't done is seen in the flaw in that reasoning. You're content to believe, so you'll continue to try and make things fit into your view. Actually seeking out the truth is prohibited (don't test God) and this is how Christianity catches people.

I've never worshiped anything in my life except God, but it was not very productive. My belief was as sincere as yours, if not more. This means that either the god of the Bible isn't there, or isn't accurately described. You can't just say "well you did it wrong" unless you can point out specifically what was wrong and show why it doesn't work.

You are entitled to say it's all false. Every man to his own.
Also, if you truly believe in your heart, that by Gods standards, you have tried to receive Him, then only you and God knows that. It will never work by your own standards though, never.
I've done everything that you currently do, and yet I was rescued. All about the heart, because nothing else can bribe the God of the Bible.

 

[Scaff]

Commandment two.
The moment you create something in your mind to find alternate ways to disobey / ignore Gods commands, that is an idol one creates for themselves, to please their own standards and desires.

Hold on. You're the one who in a number of threads has said that the OT laws are for the Jews and Jesus got rid of them, now you citing them as needing to be followed (a point you argued with me here).

So which is it? Are the old laws still valid (as I have said) or not (as you have said in the past an now seem to have changed stance on)?

 

[niky]

Commandment two.
The moment you create something in your mind to find alternate ways to disobey / ignore Gods commands, that is an idol one creates for themselves, to please their own standards and desires.

In other words, whenever a Biblical figure or writer justifies adultery, genocide, racism, misogyny, homophobia or whatever personal biases or petty selfish interests they hold by quoting it as the word of God, even if it contradicts the word of God in other parts of the Bible? Do tell.

-

There is a big difference between the absolute will of a Perfect God, and the collected ramblings and writings of dozens (hundreds) of different authors. All of whom are fallible, imperfect filters for the said word (and some of whom are false witnesses).

And remember, these words and writings have been edited over the centuries by people we know to be imperfect: The Church Hierarchy.

-

TL/DR: Your evidence consists of the words of men... not God. Men.

 

[JKgo]

....The more I read, even I'm beginning to believe DCP's a troll....has to be. He says he has three kids, runs a business (or about to) but he spends a considerable amount of time going here, there, everywhere, AND AT THE SAME TIME, going nowhere.

Maybe it's time you guys just move on....this ain't gonna go nowhere productive, methinks.

 

[DCP]

Hold on. You're the one who in a number of threads has said that the OT laws are for the Jews and Jesus got rid of them, now you citing them as needing to be followed (a point you argued with me here).

So which is it? Are the old laws still valid (as I have said) or not (as you have said in the past an now seem to have changed stance on)?

I'm pretty sure I told you, that you will find them all in the NT as well...

@niky

Yep, hence now you know that there are NO perfect men on earth. The men God chooses is perfectly up to God.
Lean not onto your own understanding, unless you freely and happily prefer doing your own thing, of which you are entitled to.
The absolute will of God is the Cross. Everyone of those men, separated by centuries, all wrote about it, and in great detail. You see, only God knows that, and can use these men, so allow us to know He is there, and His promises.
You wouldn't know that, because you wilfully reject Him, which off course was foretold, even 700 years before Christ.

 

[Scaff]

I'm pretty sure I told you, that you will find them all in the NT as well...

And yet you have still to cite them in the NT, not in an 'I interpret this in this way' manner, but the ten commandments in the NT.

The absolute will of God is the Cross. Everyone of those men, separated by centuries, all wrote about it, and in great detail.

How do you know it was a cross?

The Romans didn't exclusively use the cross for crucifixion, it was also done on a Y shape, a T shape and on a pole (hands and arms overhead).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Cross_shape

You see all the men you cite as evidence for this, not one of them was present at the time and they often contradict each other (did anyone help Jesus carry the cross or not - even on that they don't agree).

 

[KSaiyu]

I'd love to watch The Da Vinci Code with you @DCP

I'll bring the popcorn.

 

[GBO Possum]

The bible is my evidence bible...

So how about actually reading the bible rather than cherry picking sentences which appear to mostly not contradict your pre-conceived notions. Or is reading an activity which is completely off the table for you? Even if the book in question is a Christian bible?

 

[Danoff]

Hold on. You're the one who in a number of threads has said that the OT laws are for the Jews and Jesus got rid of them, now you citing them as needing to be followed (a point you argued with me here).

So which is it? Are the old laws still valid (as I have said) or not (as you have said in the past an now seem to have changed stance on)?

This is one of my favorite Christian cop-outs. They think they get to ignore all the fire and brimstone because Jesus. Turns out, though, that they still have to believe the OT, even if they think the NT undid some of it. And the God of the OT was an immoral jerk who loved violence. Yup, it's still the Christian God.

 

[Scaff]

This is one of my favorite Christian cop-outs. They think they get to ignore all the fire and brimstone because Jesus. Turns out, though, that they still have to believe the OT, even if they think the NT undid some of it. And the God of the OT was an immoral jerk who loved violence. Yup, it's still the Christian God.

I predict I will just get random verses cited at me that have nothing to do with the question as a response however (see if t happens, will I get to be prophetic as well).

 

[Brett]

I predict I will just get random verses cited at me that have nothing to do with the question as a response however (see if t happens, will I get to be prophetic as well).

If your prophecy comes true, then do we need to worship at the altar of Scaff? Or what are we going to call this new religion?

 

[Scaff]

If your prophecy comes true, then do we need to worship at the altar of Scaff? Or what are we going to call this new religion?

'Don't-bother-with-all-the-worship-and-go-out-and-do-something-worth-while-instead-or-lie-around-and-do-bugger-all-if-you-like-I-don't-mind-ism'

Seems snappy.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There'll be wine and biscuits though, right? That's one of the better church-ey bits.

 

[Mike458]

There'll be wine and biscuits though, right? That's one of the better church-ey bits.

Good bread I hope?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

This is one of my favorite Christian cop-outs. They think they get to ignore all the fire and brimstone because Jesus. Turns out, though, that they still have to believe the OT, even if they think the NT undid some of it. And the God of the OT was an immoral jerk who loved violence. Yup, it's still the Christian God.

Its not a cop out or ignoring.
I'm not under the law anymore.
I accepted and received the full pardon.
That's the whole point.

The law is the standard by which everyone is judged.
And every person is guilty under the law.
If you wish to assume you are wiser and more righteous than God, go ahead.
But I seriously doubt you will prevail.

Just as the civil justice system isolates the guilty from the general population,
at the appointed time those who reject the pardon will be isolated.

Its clear and evident, God is not a immoral jerk who loves violence, or he would not have gone to the trouble to implement the plan of redemption, in an effort to save mankind from the law and its penalty.
Likewise to preserve that plan, Israel had to be preserved.
Wherein now we are presently under the season of grace, and all have the opportunity to accept the pardon.
And yes it's still the same God.

 

[Mike458]

Its not a cop out or ignoring.
I'm not under the law anymore.
I accepted and received the full pardon.
That's the whole point.

The law is the standard by which everyone is judged.
And every person is guilty under the law.
If you wish to assume you are wiser and more righteous than God, go ahead.
But I seriously doubt you will prevail.

Just as the civil justice system isolates the guilty from the general population,
at the appointed time those who reject the pardon will be isolated.

Its clear and evident, God is not a immoral jerk who loves violence, or he would not have gone to the trouble to implement the plan of redemption, in an effort to save mankind from the law and its penalty.
Likewise to preserve that plan, Israel had to be preserved.
Wherein now we are presently under the season of grace, and all have the opportunity to accept the pardon.
And yes it's still the same God.

Who? The same God that tells you to stone people to death? The same God that sends people to hell for wearing polyester? The same God that has allowed several genocides to occur? The same god that permits rape?

I don't see that as a moral God at all.

 

[squadops]

Usually Christians are questioned about this perceived discrepancy when they use the bible to defend or define a social stand. Homosexuality is a popular one followed up with the 'do you eat pork' question. This time DCP, not wanting to address idolatry in his own words, simply stated 'commandment 2' when I asked him why he considered certain things idolatry. Not much of an answer but maybe he is struggling how he defines the OT and NT in his daily life.