Do you believe in God?

[The McMerc]

I don't believe you grasp the gravity of the situation.
There was no other resolution available, peaceful or otherwise, and still preserve autonomy.

Perhaps I should have added these verses as well:

Gen 6:
11 The earth was depraved and putrid in God’s sight, and the land was filled with violence (desecration, infringement, outrage, assault, and lust for power).

12 And God looked upon the world and saw how degenerate, debased, and vicious it was, for all humanity had corrupted their way upon the earth and lost their true direction.

13 God said to Noah, I intend to make an end of all flesh, for through men the land is filled with violence; and behold, I will destroy them and the land.

Why didn't god choose this time to send down Jesus?

@Pollux458 - consider the impact of a flood on your country. Australia would have been the first continent to disappear under the waves. Mount Arrarat is more than twice as high as "Kozzie".

Yet all those special Australasian animals, birds and insects survived. If this flood story actually happened, then consider these few points.

• How would you transport a koala pair all that way, with a supply of its special gum leaves? Even Google Maps can't provide directions!
• Noah's family would have needed a fleet of arks to visit Australia, New Zealand, Tasmania, Antarctica, New Guinea, the Galápagos Islands, Fiji, Hawaii...........
• Don't you think that the authors of the flood story would have thought to mention the strangeness of kangaroos and platypuses aboard the ark? Or moas or emus? Did nobody in Noah's family even notice?
• How did they get all those special critters back to their home territory? Imagine the requirement for record keeping!
• Why is there no evidence of flooding of this nature in Australia?
• How did the Australian flora survive being covered by thousands of feet of water for, what was it, a year? No light or oxygen combined with incredible water pressure? Much of your flora is incredibly sensitive to environmental change.
• Finally, think about the impact of the inbreeding imposed by reducing all animal and insect species to just one mating pair!

There are just far too many ways we have suspend our disbelief in order to swallow this story

Funnily enough we are currently going through floods here in NSW. Anyway, I totally agree. There are just too many things about the story that do not make sense and just aren't possible.

 

[Dotini]

The Book of Enoch describes Noah as having the characteristics of an angel. His eyes glowed, and when he opened his mouth a light would shine out.

In Enoch, the Watchers, described as rebels from God or fallen angels, mated with human women and produced Nephilim, a race of evil giants. It was this degenerate race God supposedly sought to destroy.

Personally, I think the Watchers may well have been advanced humans spreading agriculture, kingship, weaponry, cosmetics and other technologies.

The flood myths, attributable to most if not all ancient cultures, probably date to the end of the last Ice Age when the world ocean rose hundreds of feet in not much more than centuries.

 

[DCP]

Of course. The bible is full of mindless violence, see THIS LINK. Mindless violence is a great formula for attracting readers. That's why worldwide floods are so popular in fiction worldwide - LINK.

Fortunately for us, the story of the flood, being full of preposterous absurdities, is demonstrably fiction. Even though it's poor fiction, it still has appeal to some. In my opinion, the first two "Terminator" movies did a better job of using the theme. The requirement for suspension of disbelief is placed front and center with time travel. If you accept that one premise, the rest flows quite well. The flood story has just too many inconsistencies and departures from reality.

You mean the same violence that is worse today.? You like to blame God for creating humans, and for humans to become violent. That doesn't make any sense if this is how you see it. Should I blame you, if your grandson kills his pet? If you not happy that God created you, then by all means, be unhappy. It's not going to make a difference when you die eventually.
The flood happened worldwide as Moses tells it, because it has changed the foundations of the earth. The water is still beneath the crust. How did Job know there are springs in the deep?

What proof is there that the flood story is older, in fact, the cursed nation of Shem obviously was used to create "again", a "then" evolution deception at the time.

Also, in a nut shell, because you keep failing to understand, since you are Godless, is that man rebelled, the earth was wicked before a perfect Creator, and it was cleansed completely, to lay the foundation for the perfect plan of Salvation.
Has God destroyed anything since the Cross????? NO. Why, because He said, "It Is Finished"

Why did He allow His Son to die on the Cross?, because of people like us who choose the free gift of Salvation. By us, I mean Born again Christians, and again, this gift is for mankind, if they so choose it.

How do we know the end is near, because finally all the prophecies have been fulfilled, of which 2 remain. The gathering of the Saints (Church/ Believers), and the Wrath of God, to destroy all sin and wickedness once and for all, at the end of the tribulation which lasts for 7 years. It begins, I might add, the moment a peace treaty is signed between Israel and Palestine.

God told Abraham that he would spare Sodom if he found 5 righteous men. They couldn't find one. The Boss, God, is very much entitled to destroy wickedness. People can choose not to be wicked and sinful.
Noah preached for over 3 generations before the flood, yet all they did was mock him.
Jesus said that as were the days of Noah, so will it be for the coming of the Son of Man.
Jesus is the ARK my friends, and the bible was very clear that God shut the ARK door, not Russell Crow.
When Jesus comes, you can rest assured that the ARK door will be shut, because He is the same yesterday, today and forever more. Call on Christ, while the ARK is open, instead of trying to justify why it isn't real.


Without any of this happening, we wouldn't have a choice today. We would all go to hell for our crime.
If you want hell, that's fine. At least you choosing it, whether you believe it or not.
The God of the Bible offers Jesus as the hope of nations. The god of other religions offers paradise for actions and deeds. Go figure.

@Scaff

http://www.godsholyspirit.com/christian_desk/commandments_nt.htm

 

[Famine]

You mean the same violence that is worse today?

Violent crime is at a record low. Want to try with a different sweeping statement?

 

[Danoff]

He didn't screw up, he gave man a choice (little thing called freewill)

If you put a gun to someone's head and tell them to rob a gas station, do they have free will?

, going back to the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were given one rule: don't eat of the tree of good and evil, what did they do - eat from the tree of good and evil.

Yea, so God decided to punish all of their decendents, who did nothing, with a life of pain, under a threat of being drowned or sent to a lake of fire to burn in eternal pain unless they step in line. Seems like a very moral dude, not insane with violence at all.

He could have just as easily stopped them and made them do his will, but he didn't want robots walking around worshiping him, he wanted man to worship him of their own accord.

...with the help of threats of drowning or being set on fire forever.

When he saw that only Noah and his family where the only humans abiding by his laws he then decided that the best way to rid the world of man's evil was to cause a flood to destroy everything.

pretty barbaric way to commit genocide if you're all powerful. Why couldn't everyone just not wake up? Nope, gotta drown to death. Gotta burn forever. Everything has to be as violent and painful as possible.

In this case it accomplished ridding the world of evil for a time, but yes it seems that even after the flood people have reverted to disobeying his will. Thankfully he promised never to flood the entire world ever again, otherwise we might be sitting here with this technology and knowledge of the universe.

Yea, he toned down a little since Jesus. Still, that's your man, the guy who tortured and killed and commanded others to torture and kill. Nice of you to forgive him.

I don't believe so.
His mistakes? Hardly. You sound just like Adam. The woman you gave me, it was her fault.

We are his creation, and he did decide to drown us all and try again.

Tempting I'm sure.
But would that have actually been just?
Or just an easy way out?

You ignored half of that. There are more benevolent ways to start over than to murder everyone by drowning. How about going back in time and trying again? How about making everyone not wake up? Why the barbarism.

I must admit it does appear to be a classic case of the end justifying the means.
And in fact it actually does.

God doesn't understand logic either apparently.

 

[DCP]

Violent crime is at a record low. Want to try with a different sweeping statement?

Come to ZA. Would love to see you make it out of Soweto in 2 days alive, even if the stats say its a non violent town.
Anyway, the world is massive. Nobody can keep track of violence. Statistics don't run our lives.
Christ does, and because He knows all these things are the beginning of sorrows, He knows that the gathering is soon upon us.

@Dotini

Good story mate. The bible does mention giants after the flood, and while the Nephilim was destroyed in the flood, it's possible that they were still inherited by Shem and his wife. Shem was cursed for what he did to Noah. I must brush up on that a bit. I've just been enjoying the evolutionists debating the creationists recently.

@Danoff

Pollux458 said
, going back to the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were given one rule: don't eat of the tree of good and evil, what did they do - eat from the tree of good and evil.
Click to expand...

Yea, so God decided to punish all of their decendents, who did nothing, with a life of pain, under a threat of being drowned or sent to a lake of fire to burn in eternal pain unless they step in line. Seems like a very moral dude, not insane with violence at all.

All the descendants stilled sinned, and still do so till this very day. One more time.
Sin is a crime before a Holy God. Through one man, sin entered the world (his children), and through One Man, the world "MIGHT" be saved. Emphasis on might, because that becomes each persons individual choice.

 

[Danoff]

Come to ZA. Would love to see you make it out of Soweto in 2 days alive, even if the stats say its a non violent town.
Anyway, the world is massive. Nobody can keep track of violence. Statistics don't run our lives.
Christ does, and because He knows all these things are the beginning of sorrows, He knows that the gathering is soon upon us.

@Dotini

Good story mate. The bible does mention giants after the flood, and while the Nephilim was destroyed in the flood, it's possible that they were still inherited by Shem and his wife. Shem was cursed for what he did to Noah. I must brush up on that a bit. I've just been enjoying the evolutionists debating the creationists recently.

@Danoff

Pollux458 said
, going back to the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were given one rule: don't eat of the tree of good and evil, what did they do - eat from the tree of good and evil.
Click to expand...

Yea, so God decided to punish all of their decendents, who did nothing, with a life of pain, under a threat of being drowned or sent to a lake of fire to burn in eternal pain unless they step in line. Seems like a very moral dude, not insane with violence at all.

All the descendants stilled sinned, and still do so till this very day. One more time.
Sin is a crime before a Holy God. Through one man, sin entered the world (his children), and through One Man, the world "MIGHT" be saved. Emphasis on might, because that becomes each persons individual choice.

Original sin is an interesting, weird, and immoral way to blame infants for the crimes of their fathers.

 

[Famine]

Come to ZA. Would love to see you make it out of Soweto in 2 days alive, even if the stats say is a non violent town.

And yet murder rates across South Africa are 20% lower than they were a decade ago.

Anyway, the world is massive. Nobody can keep track of violence. Statistics don't run our lives.

Let's assume you're right. If that's the case, then you cannot claim that violence is better or worse today - so your statement that it is worse is not only false but knowingly so. That's what we call "a lie".

However, you're not right. Violent crime is tracked and the rates of violent crime (including, but not limited to, murder, rape, armed robbery, mugging and assault) are trending down in nearly every country on Earth and have been for over 20 years. The exceptions are countries with very low levels of violent crime and small populations where each crime causes a significant impact on crime statistics (Bhutan, for example) or countries with extremely high levels of violent crime (Mexico), which are a bit erratic.

So just like your early statement that animals are never gay, the concept that violence is worse now than ever is fundamentally false. You should be questioning who's feeding you this rubbish...

 

[Grandea GTR]

Interesting topic. I just want to nit-pick about the fact that the poll has some rather vague choices. I believe in god (catholic), but am not that devout to the religion, not to the point where I would say "without him, the world wouldn't exist."

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff

http://www.godsholyspirit.com/christian_desk/commandments_nt.htm

I asked......

And yet you have still to cite them in the NT, not in an 'I interpret this in this way' manner, but the ten commandments in the NT.

....so I will take it that you can't.

 

[niky]

Even so, and to a degree I cannot argue with your reasoning.

But let me ask you this:
If the God of the Bible is who he claims to be, with all the power and attributes he says he has,
do you think he could author a Book and have it penned by "imperfect men" and yet still get his point across?

Basically, errh... this down here:

But let me ask you this:
If the God of the Bible is who he claims to be, with all the power and attributes he says he has,
don't you think he could author a Book and have it be internally consistent and non-contradictory?

And if he had truly "got his point across", how come there are so many competing gods and religions? The bible has succeeded in being printed in vast numbers, however there are only a very few who have actually read it cover to cover. Often, reading it "cover to cover" is a good way to find reasons to reject it.

Most bible-followers require someone to cherry pick for them. Since the cherry pickers all put their own spin on the cherries, you see religions splinter and diverge, leading to God-induced violence.

Ever play the game "pass the message"? That humorous schoolyard game where the message, after being passed on through a dozen people, comes out garbled at the end?

Play it over two thousand years with an entire book or set of books. Let's see what happens then.

Wait... we can actually see that, right now...

Of course, with all the repetition involved in oral traditions, and with the writings being put on paper, the message doesn't distort as quickly as in the schoolyard. But it does distort. Which causes disagreements. Which causes schisms. Which causes new sects... new religions, etcetera...

-

Of course a Perfect God could have written his book through imperfect men and gotten the point across. But sadly, we don't have a Perfect Book as evidence that this actually happened.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Basically, errh... this down here:





Ever play the game "pass the message"? That humorous schoolyard game where the message, after being passed on through a dozen people, comes out garbled at the end?

Play it over two thousand years with an entire book or set of books. Let's see what happens then.

Wait... we can actually see that, right now...

Of course, with all the repetition involved in oral traditions, and with the writings being put on paper, the message doesn't distort as quickly as in the schoolyard. But it does distort. Which causes disagreements. Which causes schisms. Which causes new sects... new religions, etcetera...

-

Of course a Perfect God could have written his book through imperfect men and gotten the point across. But sadly, we don't have a Perfect Book as evidence that this actually happened.

Practically, in a way, it's a massive game of telephone.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ever play the game "pass the message"? That humorous schoolyard game where the message, after being passed on through a dozen people, comes out garbled at the end?

Always called "Chinese Whispers" here... it occurs to me that such a name may now be a thing of the past

 

[squadops]

I asked......

And yet you have still to cite them in the NT, not in an 'I interpret this in this way' manner, but the ten commandments in the NT.

Setting aside who follows which ones and how they justify it, here they are. I included some 'catch alls' at the bottom just in case, hopefully there are no interpretations needed, exaggerations, cherry pickings, or self fulfillments.

The Ten Commandments in The New Testament:

1. Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 22:37, 38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

2. 1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

3. Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

4. Christ broke the Sabbath, Matthew 12:1-14

5. Matthew 19.19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

6. - 10. Romans 13.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And related

Galations 5: 19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Timothy 1-4 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God:

 

[Dotini]

2 Timothy 1-4 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God:

Ancient prophecies fuel current obsessions.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

But let me ask you this:
If the God of the Bible is who he claims to be, with all the power and attributes he says he has,
don't you think he could author a Book and have it be internally consistent and non-contradictory?

Personally I don't find it to be inconsistent or contradictory as far as the main points and theme.
One can pick nits over incidentals if you wish, but I believe the appearance of items that can be considered inconsistent are certainly explainable, and again do not deter from the consistency of the main points.
Could it have been more perfect in every detail?
I guess it could have, but again that would not change that which is already perfect about it.
Perhaps it is written as is, to preserve a measure of faith for one to embrace it.
As DCP said in a earlier post, "it is all about heart".

And if he had truly "got his point across", how come there are so many competing gods and religions?

Like a body of water, they all look the same on the surface.
Underneath is where the differences are found.
That is where one will have to go, to realize the differences.

The bible has succeeded in being printed in vast numbers, however there are only a very few who have actually read it cover to cover. Often, reading it "cover to cover" is a good way to find reasons to reject it.

Actually, for me the exact opposite is true.
The more I read it, the more foundationally consistent, truthful, and perfect I find it to be.

Most bible-followers require someone to cherry pick for them. Since the cherry pickers all put their own spin on the cherries, you see religions splinter and diverge, leading to God-induced violence.

I see a lot more violence being perpetrated on the Bible followers than the other way around.

 

[Mike458]

As DCP said in a earlier post, "it is all about heart".

So therefore the bible is just based on your faith to believe in something without proof?

I see a lot more violence being perpetrated on the Bible followers than the other way around.

Citation required. Please check the Homosexuality Discussion Thread for that, and you'll see that it's the other way round.

 

[Scaff]

Setting aside who follows which ones and how they justify it, here they are. I included some 'catch alls' at the bottom just in case, hopefully there are no interpretations needed, exaggerations, cherry pickings, or self fulfillments.

The Ten Commandments in The New Testament:

1. Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 22:37, 38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

2. 1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

3. Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

4. Christ broke the Sabbath, Matthew 12:1-14

5. Matthew 19.19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

6. - 10. Romans 13.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And related

Galations 5: 19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Timothy 1-4 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God:

1. First one is when Jesus is chatting to Satan, I'm not Satan. Second one is close as he is referring to the first of the Ten Commandments

2. So it only applies to Children now?

3. Holy Ghost, well that requires interpretation.

4. Flat out contradicts the matching Ten Commandment from the OT.

5. Yep OK with that one.

6 - 10. Also good but is that the correct translation as once again we have kill (NIV has it as Murder)

So yes I'm quite happy with some of these, a few require interpretation, one is having a chat with Satan and one it a total contraindication, and none of it is a single combined list. All (apart from the contradiction) refer back to the OT

Which once again, shows that the NT doesn't replace OT laws at all (as Matthew also confirms), with the sole exception that you can now pop to the pub on the Sabbath without getting stoned to death (just don't get too drunk).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

He could have just as easily stopped them and made them do his will, but he didn't want robots walking around worshiping him, he wanted man to worship him of their own accord.

This sort of god sounds like the type of passive-aggressive girlfriend that would get angry with you, only to respond with "I'm fine" if you asked what was wrong.

and it took about 130 years to do so

Oh dear.

I don't believe you grasp the gravity of the situation.
There was no other resolution available, peaceful or otherwise, and still preserve autonomy.

This is an apparently all-powerful, omnipotent being, that apparently took six days to create everything. There are near-infinite other resolutions if we're to believe in his power.

...

I'm still stunned that adults would resort to the type of circular logic that is quoting Bible versus as proof of the Bible's authenticity.

 

[squadops]

Yeah yeah, I have no dog in this fight but I'll at least post this much.

1. Chatting to Satan or not, "for it is written, Thou shalt" does not infer it is written for Satan nor stating Satan shalt. Jesus is not chatting up Satan in Matthew 22: 37, 38, he's addressing the Pharisees, more specifically a Pharisee lawyer.

2. Children of God, yes, literally, no. I counted on some resistance, so I posted Galations 5: 19-21.

3. OK, no ghost then. 1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

4. Yup, I thought I clearly stated that.

6-10 I'd go with murder personally.

Take it as you will, in my opinion the commandments are restated in the NT, it's not a point that bothers me if contested as it doesn't change the NT message.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Of course a Perfect God could have written his book through imperfect men and gotten the point across. But sadly, we don't have a Perfect Book as evidence that this actually happened.

Well I have to disagree.
I have found that foundationally, as to motive and intent it fits our situation perfectly.

So therefore the bible is just based on your faith to believe in something without proof?

Yes, but not exactly.
The proof is in its truth, wisdom, and overwhelming understanding and explanation of the cause and effect of the human condition. Likewise having experienced it's revolutionary remedy, there is nothing in any religion that I know of that it can be compared too.

I accepted it at 12 yrs of age under basic logic and reasoning, not to mention I was expected to as well.
What I mean by that is this:
Just like everyone else I had no control or say so in being here. I just found myself here.
Since that was the case, I reasoned that likewise in light of that I maynot have any say so over when I might depart, and having no idea what may await in that scenario, in the event this God/Jesus thing was true, I might as well cover my bases and take the insurance policy.
Thats how I viewed it at the time. Made perfect sense.(and still does IMO)
I guess some faith was involved but if so it was pretty thin.

It wasn't until many years later I discovered through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that it was
about heart not head.
Even so on some level the logic and reasoning of it is what seemed to draw me to it.
But oddly enough it also maintains a skepticism about it as well.
I think over time it was a mix of both Faith and Logic.

Citation required. Please check the Homosexuality Discussion Thread for that, and you'll see that it's the other way round.

I guess the atrocities against Christians in the middle east doesn't count then?

If you put a gun to someone's head and tell them to rob a gas station, do they have free will?

We are his creation, and he did decide to drown us all and try again.

Yes but then he altered the plan.
Almost all and continue on, not start over.

You ignored half of that. There are more benevolent ways to start over than to murder everyone by drowning. How about going back in time and trying again? How about making everyone not wake up? Why the barbarism.

There is no going back and starting over with autonomy.
You will just end up in the same place again and cause twice the devastation.
Why the method? I don't know all the reasons.
One would be the disposal of all the dead.
Perhaps to cleanse the bloodline of the mix of giant beings as well.
The earth and our existence changed after the flood.
Men no longer lived for hundreds of years.

God doesn't understand logic either apparently.

He understands it alright.
Better than we do IMO.

This is an apparently all-powerful, omnipotent being, that apparently took six days to create everything. There are near-infinite other resolutions if we're to believe in his power.

Like what other resolutions?
If as you say, he is who he says, do you really think he does things without an essential purpose or a reason?

 

[dylansan]

There is no going back and starting over with autonomy.
You will just end up in the same place again and cause twice the devastation.
Why the method? I don't know all the reasons.
One would be the disposal of all the dead.
Perhaps to cleanse the bloodline of the mix of giant beings as well.
The earth and our existence changed after the flood.
Men no longer lived for hundreds of years.

I don't think you're getting the point yet. All the people who died in the flood, why didn't god just make those people disappear? Why was god incapable of creating the same result without all the pain of drowning? He supposedly created the entire universe, presumably he could change it however he wanted and not need to resort to natural phenomena like floods.

Furthermore, when god created people, why was he unable to predict what they would do? Did he create our brains? Did he understand neuroscience and psychology? Why was our behaviour such a surprise to an all powerful being?

 

[Mike458]

I guess the atrocities against Christians in the Middle East don't count then?

The thing is that people will do whatever their 'holy book' tells them. This has been very evident in the fact that ISIS exists and several other atrocities have been occurring in the Middle East with Islam. This is not to say that Christianity is any better. The real question to ask with this issue is this: Who fired the first shot?

In conclusion, both religions are at fault here, possibly evangelical Christians trying to force people into their religion, and the Islamic people fighting back.

 

[squadops]

ISIS couldn't care any less about Islam though

 

[Mike458]

ISIS couldn't care any less about Islam though

Well, if it weren't for their name and their purpose no...

 

[jimipitbull]

What I mean by that is this:
Just like everyone else I had no control or say so in being here. I just found myself here.

So you have no free will. Like a robot, programmed to spit out religious context.

I feel sorry for you, you have my pity.

 

[Imari]

I have found that foundationally, as to motive and intent it fits our situation perfectly.

Speak for yourself. It fits your situation perfectly.

Since that was the case, I reasoned that likewise in light of that I maynot have any say so over when I might depart, and having no idea what may await in that scenario, in the event this God/Jesus thing was true, I might as well cover my bases and take the insurance policy.
Thats how I viewed it at the time. Made perfect sense.(and still does IMO)

Heh, I thought most people managed to see the flaw in Pascal's Wager.

I guess it's not expected at 12 though, statistics and probability theory isn't usually taught until later if I remember correctly.

If you've since finished high school, you may wish to review your conclusions in light of what you've learned.

 

[FoRiZon]

ISIS couldn't care any less about Islam though

What ISIS want is politics and power. Islam in name only for shallow religious defense.

Majority of muslim wants them to die off already. Then again so does Christians to IRA.

 

[Mike458]

What ISIS want is politics and power. Islam in name only for shallow religious defense.

Majority of muslim wants them to die off already. Then again so does Christians to IRA.

Fair enough, point taken.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I don't think you're getting the point yet. All the people who died in the flood, why didn't god just make those people disappear? Why was god incapable of creating the same result without all the pain of drowning? He supposedly created the entire universe, presumably he could change it however he wanted and not need to resort to natural phenomena like floods.

Why was it done the way it was?
I do not know.
I can only assume he had a good reason.
The one thing he will not do is override our autonomy.
Even influence is kept to a minimum.
The reasons for this were dicussed in earlier posts.
Therefore he can only endure with the consequences that result.
However, that is the price to accomplish what he set out to accomplish.

Furthermore, when god created people, why was he unable to predict what they would do? Did he create our brains? Did he understand neuroscience and psychology? Why was our behaviour such a surprise to an all powerful being?

Surly he knew what mankind would do.
Even so it was none the easier to look upon.
He surly knew the pain it would cause him as well.
But he still deemed the plan worth carrying on.

So you have no free will. Like a robot, programmed to spit out religious context.

I feel sorry for you, you have my pity.

You must not have read the rest.
Once here, I exercised my free will based primarily on logic and reasoning with a pinch of faith thrown in.
I still exercise free will all the time

Speak for yourself. It fits your situation perfectly.

Since it is offered to everyone freely, and I have seen it benefit myself as well as numerous people from all backgrounds, in my experience it fits all situations and is a common benefit to all men.
However as some of us here have endeavored to point out, it is offered and beneficial, but it must be embraced individually by one's own choice.
To institude it otherwise would be an encroachment on that choice and of no value to the one offering it.

Heh, I thought most people managed to see the flaw in Pascal's Wager.
I guess it's not expected at 12 though, statistics and probability theory isn't usually taught until later if I remember correctly.
If you've since finished high school, you may wish to review your conclusions in light of what you've learned.

Yes, well you might consider that since time eternal everything mankind does is by design and purpose.
There is nothing in the history of this life that is otherwise.
So unless upon death there is a radical change in that, you can expect whatever awaits to continue some form of that element.

@Danoff
This comment just reminded me of something related to the flood conversation.
Every year for at least the last two generations, our motorized transportation system kills and mames thousands of people in the course of that participation. Many of whom are completely innocent of any wrong doing in that process.
You like probably everyone on this site, freely, willfully and purposely participate in that system that will result in those deaths and injuries.
Why?
Because the reward is considered worth the risk.
God is only proceeding with mankind under the same principle, albeit on another level.