Do you believe in God?

[Drave]

I haven't voted as nothing appeals... I was looking for something more like... define what 'God' means as a concept

Is there some gaseous deity? Probably not. Is there a link between everything in the reality that we perceive? Yes. Is that a 'God'? Well, unless that God is a mathematical equation then probably not.

We would have a great more idea if we understood

* Time

* So called Dark Matter

The time of the universe is not the time we use as a species. Time is not linear. Time as far as we can presently work out can dilate, can slow down, can be effected by gravity and affect differing forms.

The quick and dirty answer to this is that we, our entire 'everything', galaxy, universe et al could easily be all contained in an atom in someone's finger nail... no time = no true distance understanding - no true understanding of scale.

We do not know what fills in the gaps... the 98% gaps between the bits that we can identify

What is I think always interesting is that the reality we see as humans is only based upon our singular understanding of time, mountain ranges actually move like a wave in the sea and crash against some distant shore... whcih isn't solid either. Seen at the relative speeds nothing is solid... nothing

My personal belief is that some of the answers lay in Fractalism.

What is pretty obvious is that formula organised religions were created for crowd control and a very clever idea they were.

If one has no proper judicial or penal system or policing force, how do you keep some tacit control on the masses? Well, there's this bloke called God and he is omnip[resent and if you're bad and offend against his rules, he will see you and you'll go to hell for eternity, so be good for 70 years and live it up later.

So effective was it, along with western empire building and Catholicism that much of the world use the Christian 10 commandments as a basis for their social morals and even laws ... which is pretty bizarre if you really think about it

The question which fascinates me is not the one about God... but the one about leaders, warriors, academics and the masses.

Our species has leaders. They tend to be charismatic and appealing to people... not everyone obviously but enough. They are pragmatic people.

However without warriors and academics, leaders are totally lost... warriors and academics are also to the most part pragmatic people. Leaders use those two classes to actually rule, rather than lead. To rule they need input.

Then one has the masses... the 98% in every society. Emotional people, looking for support and to be entertained... hence the infamous term 'Bread and Circuses'

Now when I look at that am I am reminded of a hive or colony species.... and I think that is interesting. is that what we are as a species? If not then what is the pragmatic explanation for these obvious, definite and defined classes of people?

 

[TenEightyOne]

You have a source for that? It's the first time I'm hearing Jews and Christians believe in same Messiah. Jews don't believe Jesus Christ is their messiah, end of story.

I didn't say Jews and Christians believe in the same Messiah. I said that Christians believe that they share the same Messiah as the Jews. Did it escape your notice that Jeebus McChrist was Jewish?

Again you're assuming they have the same beliefs but as I mentioned before they do not.

You won't get too far telling people what they think. Of the legends that make up the talmud, the testaments and the koran (hadith aside) many have common roots in far older legends. Still, it's your claim that they don't, so source required

As far as I know all three religions believe the "Messiah" will come on "judgement day" and take "the faithful ones" to "heaven". How can these religions be the same when one thinks the messiah came and died on the cross, the other accended to heaven, and the other hasn't even arrived yet?

You just said that they didn't have the same beliefs, now you think they do? The split between judaism and christianity is the authenticity of christ as messiah. The koran has no such doubts about Isa;

If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger, and that Jesus is God’s servant and His Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he has done even if those deeds were few.

Fine, go on and discuss religion without distinguishing between God, god, Allah, Yahweh, dieu, or Apollo.

The same thing.

Fine, go on and discuss religion without distinguishing between God, god, Allah, Yahweh, dieu, or Apollo.

The same thing.

Fine, go on and discuss religion without distinguishing between God, god, Allah, Yahweh, dieu, or Apollo.

Arguably the same thing.

Makes perfect sense...

Might I be so bold as to suggest that you do more research. I can't tell what you think but I suspect you haven't read much of the torah, the bible or the koran. You could start with this thread, of course, you should be able to gain considerable insight.

Now when I look at that am I am reminded of a hive or colony species.... and I think that is interesting. is that what we are as a species?

We are hosts for DNA. There is no difference between our drivers and those of seaweed.

If not then what is the pragmatic explanation for these obvious, definite and defined classes of people?

There's no "if not", one is not exclusive of the other. We co-exist as it suits us to survive or to multiply source. Humans, as with other hosts, define classes. They are neither natural nor innate to the organism.

 

[Speedracer8218]

@TenEightyOne I'm not gonna sit here multi quoting you for the next few days (knowing how you are) so if you disagree with what I said that's perfectly fine with me. I'm not about to engage in a discussion with you about religion as you're a proud atheist and I have no desire to change your views.

FYI I read the bible and took a few world religion classes in college so I'm not speaking out of my a**

I thought it was necessary to distinguish between the religious deities. But since most seem to disagree then carry on, I got nothing more to say here

 

[huskeR32]

What? You got it backwards buddy

From the Wikipeida article Jesus in Islam:

Isa Ibn Maryam (English: Jesus, son of Mary), or Jesus, is considered to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, al-Injīl(the Gospel).

From the same article:

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the Messiah").

From the article titled Messiah:

Islamic tradition holds that Jesus, the son of Mary, was a Prophet and the Masîḥ (messiah) sent to the Israelites, and that he will return to Earth at the end of times, along with the Mahdi, and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the "false Messiah" or Antichrist.

There is often confusion around this, stemming from the tendency of Christians to conflate "messiah" with "redeemer" or "savior."

 

[Dotini]

Is there some gaseous deity?

Not gaseous, but plasmic.

Muhammed admitted the visions he received could have been deceits of the Djinn. Similarly, the visions and apparitions of burning bushes, angels, the throne of god, etc to Christians, Jews, Catholics and Mormons could have been deceptions of the Djinn.

 

[Speedracer8218]

From the Wikipeida article Jesus in Islam:



From the same article:



From the article titled Messiah:



There is often confusion around this, stemming from the tendency of Christians to conflate "messiah" with "redeemer" or "savior."

Wikipedia? Really?

Here is something a little less biased

http://www.soundvision.com/article/a-comparison-of-the-islamic-and-christian-views-of-jesus

Edit: and I guess you missed this part from the article you mentioned

Jesus will not return as a new prophet, as Muhammad was the final prophet, but will continue from where he left off at the time of his ascension. He will live for another 40 years before dying a natural death.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm not about to engage in a discussion with you about religion as you're a proud atheist and I have no desire to change your views.

I am not a proud atheist, I am simply an atheist. I'm open to any discussion that you'd like to have but, as I hope you're seeing, you need to have the correct facts. As others are also demonstrating to you your subject knowledge of the differences/similarities of the gods, prophets and messiah(s) and their clearly demonstrable shared history in human legend seems woefully inadequate.

Wikipedia? Really?

Here is something a little less biased

http://www.soundvision.com/article/a-comparison-of-the-islamic-and-christian-views-of-jesus

You don't know what constitutes bias, do you?

 

[huskeR32]

Wikipedia? Really?

Ah yes, the favored knee-jerk reaction when one wants to wiggle out of contradictory evidence from Wikipedia.

Fine, let's go right to the source, shall we?

...the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near (to Allah).

--

Here is something a little less biased

I'm seeing no direct rebuttal of Jesus as messiah in that article. In fact, it twice refers to Jesus thusly:

The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary

--

EDIT:

Edit: and I guess you missed this part from the article you mentioned

I didn't miss it at all. What does that bit have to do with Jesus as Messiah?

As I already said, a lot of people have a poor grasp of what the term "Messiah" really means. They tend to confuse it with several other terms like "redeemer," "savior," or in your case here, "prophet."

I'd suggest you take some time to learn more on this topic before coming back with any more condescending replies.

 

[Speedracer8218]

I am not a proud atheist, I am simply an atheist. I'm open to any discussion that you'd like to have but, as I hope you're seeing, you need to have the correct facts. As others are also demonstrating to you your subject knowledge of the differences/similarities of the gods, prophets and messiah(s) and their clearly demonstrable shared history in human legend seems woefully inadequate.

I may not be as knowledgeable as you are about a lot of issues discussed around these forums, but that doesn't give you the right to say that I'm woefully inadequate to express my point in regards to this subject.

I posted here for the first time because I agreed with Photon's post about perhaps differentiating between the deities of each religion.

The reason I think that is because from what I've learned there are differences in how each religion perceives their Messiahs to fulfill the prophesy. I'm aware Yahweh and the Christian God are the same, but their teachings are not. Christians include the New Testament which includes all the texts about Christ where the Jews only accept the Torah aka the Old Testament. Islam believes Jesus was a highly regarded prophet but their Messiah is Muhammad (perhaps if any followers of Islam here they could clarify this point).

For those reasons I find it difficult to understand how people here are having this discussion without differentiating the various deities of each religion. Perhaps most here don't see the point or disagree with I'm trying to say and that's fine with me. I'm not gonna carry on if no one here thinks it's an issue.

If I sounded condescending in some of my comments earlier, my apologies, religion can become a heated topic very fast. Hence I don't come here often

 

[TenEightyOne]

I may not be as knowledgeable as you are about a lot of issues discussed around these forums, but that doesn't give you the right to say that I'm woefully inadequate to express my point in regards to this subject.

My comment was because you seemed to be confusing the nature of a prophet and a messiah. You also seemed to be insisting that no discussion could go on until we'd nailed down exactly which/whose god we were discussing. I felt that for 600 pages the opposite had been proved.

I'm aware Yahweh and the Christian God are the same, but their teachings are not.

That/those god(s) did not provide any teachings. Source required.

Islam believes Jesus was a highly regarded prophet but their Messiah is Muhammad (perhaps if any followers of Islam here they could clarify this point).

You're still confused. Islam does not see Mohamed as a messiah, rather as a prophet. They see Jesus as both, exactly how and with how much importance depends on many things. Why would you need a muslim to clarify those things for you?

For those reasons I find it difficult to understand how people here are having this discussion without differentiating the various deities of each religion.

Given that the religions most-discussed here are judaism, christianity and islam then it's the same god anway, no?

 

[Drave]

Not gaseous, but plasmic.

Just because some people feel that one cannot disprove something which is an act of faith... doesn't mean it exists.

Not being able to disprove the existence of something made up and designed to not be identified, does not prove it exists.

The reality is that the concept of the existence of any form of 'deity' be it gaseous, formed of plasma or knocked together on Blue Peter out of a washing up bottle and sticky back plastic .... is frankly risible

Back in the day a few humans in control of many other humans made things up to provide a control mechanism for their society. They then put these fanciful ideas into various 'holy' books (which most people could not read of course) to exert control over the masses.

Now, today, here in the 21st century, some people argue the toss about fundamentally who did a better job of making things up to justify what they wanted? If people cannot see the utter futility of that... little wonder the world is in the appalling state it is.

Myself I prefer a modern day book which is profound, try "We need to talk about Kevin' by L Shriver... take particular note of how Shriver describes that there is no 'wall', that neither society nor morals nor any of the other ethereal restraint methods foisted upon the masses exist... it is all the Emperors new clothes, a faux, a sham. they exist only because you the people, you believe they do.

Whilst people sit around debating who has the best made up imaginary friend and who that imaginary friend would like dead next, all whilst passing the tambourine..... in the real world actual people are dying. For all the praying, chanting, kneeling, singing and abstinence that takes place... doesn't seem to be doing a great deal does it? 80% of the world still live in abject poverty to the most part, their kids die for no good reason and their life expectancy is half that of the west in so many places. Meanwhile the main churches remain amazingly rich while the poor still give... it like the world's worst lottery.

If anyone finds this offensive then it is not intended to be, it just amazes me. Stuns me in fact

Because I can see no more validity in any of the so called books of Faith be that Bible, Qoran, Tora or anything else, than the joke out of an Xmas cracker.. because someone simply made it up and it is just not funny.

 

[Speedracer8218]

That/those god(s) did not provide any teachings. Source required

Ok perhaps "teachings" was a poor choice of word around here, but they do follow different books as the basis for their beliefs. The point I'm trying to make is that the fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity is that one believes the Messiah came and went while the other is still waiting for him.

You're still confused. Islam does not see Mohamed as a messiah, rather as a prophet. They see Jesus as both, exactly how and with how much importance depends on many things.

You're right, I was confused about this part, Muhammad is just a prophet just like Jesus

Given that the religions most-discussed here are judaism, christianity and islam then it's the same god anway, no?

Well for me that's still debatable but I guess and we can leave it at that because anything I say from here on will be purely my opinion.

But... That doesn't mean I'm not interested in hearing why people think all gods are the same. Would like to hear how they came to that conclusion

 

[huskeR32]

You're right, I was confused about this part, Muhammad is just a prophet just like Jesus

With this wording, you seem to still be skirting around the fact that Jesus isn't "just a prophet" to Muslims - they recognize him as the Messiah just as Christians do.

Well for me that's still debatable but I guess and we can leave it at that because anything I say from here on will be purely my opinion.

But... That doesn't mean I'm not interested in hearing why people think all gods are the same. Would like to hear how they came to that conclusion

All three religions claim a direct lineage to Abraham, and thus all three believe in the god with whom Abraham made his covenant in the book of Genesis - a book considered holy by all three faiths.

Though interpretations of the nature of that god, and of human kind's relationship with her, obviously differ between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism (indeed, different interpretations abound among the different denominations within all three as well), there can be no doubt that they're all ultimately worshiping the same deity.

 

[Speedracer8218]

With this wording, you seem to still be skirting around the fact that Jesus isn't "just a prophet" to Muslims - they recognize him as the Messiah just as Christians do.

Maybe I am but that's because this is the first time I'm hearing Jesus was thought as the Messiah among Muslims. I'll do some further reading as now I'm interested about what the Koran has to say about Jesus, but it's hard to find an unbiased article on such subject it seems.

All three religions claim a direct lineage to Abraham, and thus all three believe in the god with whom Abraham made his covenant in the book of Genesis - a book considered holy by all three faiths.

Though interpretations of the nature of that god, and of human kind's relationship with her, obviously differ between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism (indeed, different interpretations abound among the different denominations within all three as well), there can be no doubt that they're all ultimately worshiping the same deity.

Although I agree that all three religions have the same beginning thru Abraham's lineage, they went about their separate ways as far as how they chose to worship their God creating fundamental differences that clearly distinguishes them from one another. But that's a discussion more suited for those that believe God exists imo.

In terms of discussing whether a higher being exists or not, I guess there's no need to distinguish God from Allah or Yahweh since none of them exists according to some.

 

[LeMansAid]

Although I agree that all three religions have the same beginning thru Abraham's lineage, they went about their separate ways as far as how they chose to worship their God creating fundamental differences that clearly distinguishes them from one another.

Are you theorising an interactive scenario, where the method of worship actually altered the God figure? That the God separated, and morphed according to the religions' practices? Otherwise you're not talking about God anymore, just religion.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Are you theorising an interactive scenario, where the method of worship actually altered the God figure? That the God separated, and morphed according to the religions' practices? Otherwise you're not talking about God anymore, just religion.

No I'm not, people are free to choose how they worship. God didn't separate religion, men did.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Although I agree that all three religions have the same beginning thru Abraham's lineage...

Good.

...they went about their separate ways as far as how they chose to worship their God creating fundamental differences that clearly distinguishes them from one another.

Isn't the same true within sects of each of those religions?

But that's a discussion more suited for those that believe God exists imo.

Why on earth would you say that???

 

[LeMansAid]

No I'm not, people are free to choose how they worship. God didn't separate religion, men did.

You may need to read my post more carefully.

My best guess at the moment is that you identify with one of the religions and feel a little "icky" about the suggestion of a God shared by the others..

 

[Imari]

In terms of discussing whether a higher being exists or not, I guess there's no need to distinguish God from Allah or Yahweh since none of them exists according to some.

They're the same being. The religions agree that their gods started as the same being, they simply disagree on what happened after that.

Let me relate the parable of the blind men and the elephant, that may help you to understand.

Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."

They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we will not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.

"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.

"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.

"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunkof the elephant.

"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.

"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.

"It is like a solid pipe," said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.

They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?"

They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like."

Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."

"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fighting. They felt happy that they were all right.

It's entirely possible that each of these religions are describing the same being, and that they're all right. Because each of them only chooses to allow a select set of descriptors of "their" God. There is no "wise man" to explain to Jews and Christians and Muslims how all their experiences of God are actually facets of a single being.

Even to someone who doesn't believe that they exist, their properties and whether they are the same being is relevant to a discussion about their existence. I might not believe in the Purple People Eater, but it's relevant exactly what the Purple People Eater is if we're to talk about it, and to know whether it's the same as the Violet People Eater, or the Magenta Man Muncher and the Lavender Lady Gobbler.

The thread doesn't need definitions of God, Allah and Yahweh, because no one will agree on them. See the ridiculous number of sects of Judaism, Christianity and Islam that exist. What you need to do is if you wish to talk about one or more of them is to make clear which definition of them you're talking about. If it's relevant, as has been pointed out there are a lot of characteristics that are shared between all of them and so in some conversations they're absolutely interchangeable.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Isn't the same true within sects of each of those religions?

Yes but like I said earlier men chose to separate themselves into the many denominations of religions they follow

Why on earth would you say that???

Just my opinion

You may need to read my post more carefully.

My best guess at the moment is that you identify with one of the religions and feel a little "icky" about the suggestion of a God shared by the others..

Sorry but I'm not sure why you are getting those ideas but you're mistaken. I believe that if a person believes in God, any God, it's a positive thing and I'll embrace him as a brother under the same God. I may not agree with everything the other religions believe in, but me personally I don't think it's for me to judge whether they are right or wrong.

Edit: @Imari I do see your point and in a way I guess I agree. I think religion itself can be evil if done with wrongful intentions, but that's not to say God is (assuming He exists )

 

[Imari]

@Imari I do see your point and in a way I guess I agree. I think religion itself can be evil if done with wrongful intentions, but that's not to say God is (assuming He exists )

Anything can be evil if done with wrongful intentions. It's not at all specific to religion. I can be evil baking a cake, if I have the wrong intentions.

Since we never really know what other people's intentions truly are (we can't see inside other people's heads), we tend to ultimately judge them by their actions. Someone who puts babies in the microwave may think that he's doing good, but society will generally class him as evil regardless of what his actual thoughts on the matter may have been. There's some leeway for people who are genuinely insane, but they're still mostly locked up, imprisoned or otherwise separated from the rest of society. They might be considered "evil, but not intentionally so".

Likewise, people can (mostly*) have the most inhumane fantasies they like, and as long as they don't actually put them into action there's no problem.

One use the same process on God. Since His true intentions are unknowable, judge Him by His actions. He's done some good stuff, no doubt. But He's also done some pretty horrific stuff, with basically only his word as justification. If someone tells you that they needed to slaughter those Girl Scouts for the sake of the safety of humanity, you might look at them a bit funny unless they came up with a bit more justification.

That's how some people might come to the conclusion that God is evil, simply by subjecting him to the same process by which anyone else might be judged evil. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, that's just kind of how it is.

*There's unfortunately a bit of a modern trend of thoughtcrime turning up, but that's a different topic.

 

[allyourjazzz]

If someone tells you that they needed to slaughter those Girl Scouts for the sake of the safety of humanity, you might look at them a bit funny unless they came up with a bit more justification.

The devilish cookies are more than enough justification, especially if you eat more boxes than a New York Mayor decides is ok.

 

[Scaff]

But that's a discussion more suited for those that believe God exists imo.

Why?

I may be an atheist, but I have a deep interest in the subject from an anthropological perspective, why does that make me unsuited to discuss it.

 

[Speedracer8218]

One use the same process on God. Since His true intentions are unknowable, judge Him by His actions. He's done some good stuff, no doubt. But He's also done some pretty horrific stuff, with basically only his word as justification. If someone tells you that they needed to slaughter those Girl Scouts for the sake of the safety of humanity, you might look at them a bit funny unless they came up with a bit more justification.

That's how some people might come to the conclusion that God is evil, simply by subjecting him to the same process by which anyone else might be judged evil. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, that's just kind of how it is.

*There's unfortunately a bit of a modern trend of thoughtcrime turning up, but that's a different topic.

Not gonna lie, as a Christian there are things on the bible that makes me scratch my head. But as you said, we don't know God's intentions so we are all make our own assumptions and justify them as we please.

As I mentioned before I don't think God/Yahweh/Allah is what makes religion evil, humans are. Men created all the subdivisions within the religious sects. Men decided to go on a "crusade" in the name of God. Men kill so-called infidels in the name of "Allah". These actions should not be misconstrued as God's will, it's their selfish desires masqueraded as obeying their deity.

I believe in God but I don't see myself above anybody else because of my belief nor do I condemn anyone who doesn't agree with me, quite the opposite. Whether it's Hinduism or Shinto, as long as the religion helps one become a better person then it's all good. Even if you don't believe in any religion, as long as you have something that helps you meditate/reflect then I'm all for it as well. What I don't understand is the urge that people have to keep undermining each other's beliefs when there is no concrete proof that tilts the argument either way. It's a matter of what you choose to believe.

Why?

I may be an atheist, but I have a deep interest in the subject from an anthropological perspective, why does that make me unsuited to discuss it.

I wasn't implying that this should be a topic exclusive to those that believe in God. What I meant was that I would rather discuss this issue further with those that acknowledged God's existence.

Tough crowd here, I'm not as articulate as some of you are so I should stop commenting before I spend the next few days defending myself. I will end with this and it will be my last comment here: I don't need religion because I think I'm perfect, I need religion because I'm far from it

 

[TenEightyOne]

What I don't understand is the urge that people have to keep undermining each other's beliefs when there is no concrete proof that tilts the argument either way.

There is though - that's the argument that those who believe in faith rather than proof usually employ. Besides, it's hardly undermining you (and in a discussion forum of all places) to ask why you

would rather discuss this issue further with those that acknowledged God's existence.

You've been asked about it twice and have failed to answer on each occasion.

Whether it's Hinduism or Shinto, as long as the religion helps one become a better person then it's all good.

Neither of which are religions to their home cultures; one's a dharma and the other's a way of life.

These actions should not be misconstrued as God's will, it's their selfish desires masqueraded as obeying their deity.

How does one pick-and-choose, what right have you to say which bits of god's word should be overruled by your own thoughts?

 

[Scaff]

I wasn't implying that this should be a topic exclusive to those that believe in God.

You may not have intended to, but that is exactly what you did.

What I meant was that I would rather discuss this issue further with those that acknowledged God's existence.

Which is find, but not what you said.

Tough crowd here, I'm not as articulate as some of you are so I should stop commenting before I spend the next few days defending myself. I will end with this and it will be my last comment here: I don't need religion because I think I'm perfect, I need religion because I'm far from it

That is your choice, but all I did was try and understood why you held the view you expressed.

 

[DCP]

Once again, no it's not, it's simply the Arabic world for God and used by Arabs of all faiths, including Christian Arabs.

Nope. Allah is actually the same God you worship.

hi gents. Some common logic. How can the same God first say He is sending His Eternal Son to the world, then, 600 years later, say that it wasn't in fact His Son, but just a messenger?
How can the same God be called Father to all beings, but then, 600 years later, say he is not a Father and has no children as beings?

That is impossible, because a Perfect God doesn't make mistakes. The Perfect God said this even 500 years before Islam and Mormonism:

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Picking one version of a deity from the hundreds available and claiming it's the only real one.

Sounds kinda familiar...

Not familiar at all. What's familiar is most of you atheists continue wasting time trying to deny a God they don't believe exists, and more so, knowing that they will have no memories at all, of such things when they die. Surely there is something better to keep you guys busy...

I mean, I don't believe life exists out there, period. I'm not going to go to ET websites and start telling those people that they are wasting their time trusting man to find life.

So yes, there is only One God, and the existence of the Jews is proof to the logical being. How did they survive throughout history, and how did their enemies fall and never rise again? More so, how did their God know these things would happen to those He made a covenant with?

It's clear for all to see, who "want / choose" to see.
All the others make their own logic their god, because that's their first defence mechanism. Told you we were made to worship something, or anything that we want. Even logic is a god.

 

[Denur]

That is impossible, because a Perfect God doesn't make mistakes.

It is possible, but not because the perfect god makes mistakes. It is the people that interpret his words that make mistakes. What is open to debate, is who has the correct interpretation. That can be only one, or no one.

 

[Scaff]

hi gents. Some common logic. How can the same God first say He is sending His Eternal Son to the world, then, 600 years later, say that it wasn't in fact His Son, but just a messenger?
How can the same God be called Father to all beings, but then, 600 years later, say he is not a Father and has no children as beings?

That is impossible, because a Perfect God doesn't make mistakes. The Perfect God said this even 500 years before Islam and Mormonism:

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Some very poor examples of "common logic"

First you assume that your religious texts are the correct ones, yet you have no proof of this (no do Muslims or Jews), you also seem to forget that Jews could use exactly the same argument against a Christian God being the right one.

After all the NT is full of contradictions to the OT, which would mean your claimed perfect God gets it wrong a lot, after all Mr Perfect thinks that bats are birds and that Rabbits ruminate (neither of which are even remotely true).

 

[FoRiZon]

hi gents. Some common logic. How can the same God first say He is sending His Eternal Son to the world, then, 600 years later, say that it wasn't in fact His Son, but just a messenger?
How can the same God be called Father to all beings, but then, 600 years later, say he is not a Father and has no children as beings?

That is impossible, because a Perfect God doesn't make mistakes. The Perfect God said this even 500 years before Islam and Mormonism:

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.



Not familiar at all. What's familiar is most of you atheists continue wasting time trying to deny a God they don't believe exists, and more so, knowing that they will have no memories at all, of such things when they die. Surely there is something better to keep you guys busy...

I mean, I don't believe life exists out there, period. I'm not going to go to ET websites and start telling those people that they are wasting their time trusting man to find life.

So yes, there is only One God, and the existence of the Jews is proof to the logical being. How did they survive throughout history, and how did their enemies fall and never rise again? More so, how did their God know these things would happen to those He made a covenant with?

It's clear for all to see, who "want / choose" to see.
All the others make their own logic their god, because that's their first defence mechanism. Told you we were made to worship something, or anything that we want. Even logic is a god.

Where is he when I got in bad times? Explain.