Do you believe in God?

[Dotini]

Religious unification seems a weak premise for introducing More Aliens when you consider that such a unification has been less than evident in recent times.

I'm more interested in human transformation than religious unification. That was my point, but you didn't get it. Aliens aren't important either. It's human consciousness that matters. Am I getting through to you now?

 

[photonrider]

Occasionally an event happens that causes me to believe that Christians and Muslims can unite in common appreciation - even worship - of the miraculous. I'm speaking of the Marian apparitions at Zeitoon, 1968-71, seen, filmed and photographed by hundred of thousands if not millions. The source of the apparitions my be something in the collective consciousness of the witnesses, extraterrestrials or even Mary herself. No one can say. But it doesn't matter what the source is. It's the result that bitterly feuding enemies coming together in common belief that demonstrates there may be latent hope for human transformation, mankind getting over its religious feuds and conflicts.
http://consciousnessunbound.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-most-spectacular-psychic-phenomenon.html

Steve - have you read the Qu'ran from cover to cover? Mary is a prominent figure - read Qu'ran (3/42 - 62) to start. Maryam (as they refer to her) is also mentioned as you read, in Qu'ran 19/16-36.

There is no doubt how important Mary is to Muslims when you come across: " . . . And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge (for) her in You and (for) her descendants from Satan (Shateen), the expelled (from the mercy of Allah)." Qu'ran 3/36.

Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the Qu'ran - with great reverence. The real people I spoke to say his name with deep respect - never failing to add - "Peace be upon him." They speak about him with far more respect than almost every Christian I've met.

Recently I had the pleasure to visit many Muslim homes and spend time with many Muslim families, both wealthy and not-so-wealthy - I found them, personally, to be very humble, mostly soft-spoken, exceedingly generous, simple of life-style, and prayerful - I even went into the mosques and joined them in prayer for a first-person experience.

Maybe I met all the wrong Muslims - but these people are quite unlike the humans who are running around fanatically killing people. There is another agenda at work here - an agenda to take over lucrative lands and submissive people.

JMHO. Based on real life.

 

[Georgeagea]

Steve - have you read the Qu'ran from cover to cover? Mary is a prominent figure - read Qu'ran (3/42 - 62) to start. Maryam (as they refer to her) is also mentioned as you read, in Qu'ran 19/16-36.

There is no doubt how important Mary is to Muslims when you come across: " . . . And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge (for) her in You and (for) her descendants from Satan (Shateen), the expelled (from the mercy of Allah)." Qu'ran 3/36.

Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the Qu'ran - with great reverence. The real people I spoke to say his name with deep respect - never failing to add - "Peace be upon him." They speak about him with far more respect than almost every Christian I've met.

Recently I had the pleasure to visit many Muslim homes and spend time with many Muslim families, both wealthy and not-so-wealthy - I found them, personally, to be very humble, mostly soft-spoken, exceedingly generous, simple of life-style, and prayerful - I even went into the mosques and joined them in prayer for a first-person experience.

Maybe I met all the wrong Muslims - but these people are quite unlike the humans who are running around fanatically killing people. There is another agenda at work here - an agenda to take over lucrative lands and submissive people.

JMHO. Based on real life.

Those humble good mulsims you are referring to, are the ones who never read the Quran, or if they did, they completely overlooked a big part of it! They simply decided to overlook all the violence in there!

Despite that, Islam is a big threat to everyone! A good silent majority has no effect on the evil acting minority! They'll either join in eventually or stay aside! In both ways, violence will be spreading!

You visited some mulsim families, I live in Lebanon, a country about 2/3 to 3/4 mulsims and 1/3 to 1/4 christians! I speak of knowledge and experience! I have lots of good muslim friends and I like them, but that doesn't mean I like their faith! Actually it's the very definition of a satanic religion!

If you need some insight on that, I can share with you some youtube videos and articles about how and why Islam is such a threat to the whole world and the whole human civilization!

Accept and love muslims, reject and fight Islam!

 

[Mr Tree]

Those humble good mulsims you are referring to, are the ones who never read the Quran, or if they did, they completely overlooked a big part of it! They simply decided to overlook all the violence in there!

Despite that, Islam is a big threat to everyone! A good silent majority has no effect on the evil acting minority! They'll either join in eventually or stay aside! In both ways, violence will be spreading!

You visited some mulsim families, I live in Lebanon, a country about 2/3 to 3/4 mulsims and 1/3 to 1/4 christians! I speak of knowledge and experience! I have lots of good muslim friends and I like them, but that doesn't mean I like their faith! Actually it's the very definition of a satanic religion!

If you need some insight on that, I can share with you some youtube videos and articles about how and why Islam is such a threat to the whole world and the whole human civilization!

Accept and love muslims, reject and fight Islam!

I do agree with most you say here. What I disagree with is the use of 1 religion. All religions have inherrent abuse built into them. Yes therr might not be such a vocal violeny minority within those riligions but the sers for said violence are in the religion, almost any religion.

So yeah accept and love religious people, reject and fight religion.

 

[Scaff]

Those humble good mulsims you are referring to, are the ones who never read the Quran, or if they did, they completely overlooked a big part of it! They simply decided to overlook all the violence in there!

Despite that, Islam is a big threat to everyone! A good silent majority has no effect on the evil acting minority! They'll either join in eventually or stay aside! In both ways, violence will be spreading!

You visited some mulsim families, I live in Lebanon, a country about 2/3 to 3/4 mulsims and 1/3 to 1/4 christians! I speak of knowledge and experience! I have lots of good muslim friends and I like them, but that doesn't mean I like their faith! Actually it's the very definition of a satanic religion!

If you need some insight on that, I can share with you some youtube videos and articles about how and why Islam is such a threat to the whole world and the whole human civilization!

Accept and love muslims, reject and fight Islam!

Those humble good Christians you are referring to, are the ones who never read the Bible, or if they did, they completely overlooked a big part of it! They simply decided to overlook all the violence in there!

Despite that, Christianity is a big threat to everyone! A good silent majority has no effect on the evil acting minority! They'll either join in eventually or stay aside! In both ways, violence will be spreading!

You visited some Christian families, I live in England, a country about 80% Christians and very few Muslims! I speak of knowledge and experience! I have lots of good Christians friends and I like them, but that doesn't mean I like their faith! Actually it's the very definition of a satanic religion!
If you need some insight on that, I can share with you some youtube videos and articles about how and why Islam is such a threat to the whole world and the whole human civilization!

Accept and love Christians, reject and fight Christianity!


Ohh look the bigoted nonsense works just as well that way around!

Christianity and Islam share the exact same damn roots, they along with Judaism are all Abrahamic faiths, most of which was stolen from even older religions.

All of which have a minority of followers who are intolerant and violent, and a majority who are tolerant and peaceful.

Personally I think its all an interesting, but archaic throwback with no basis in fact. However for the majority who follow a religion without violence or attempting to use it to reduce the rights of others I have no issue with it at all, regardless of the faith.

 

[mustafur]

All Religions are Cancer, all of them.

Science and evidence or nothing.

The end.

 

[Georgeagea]

Ohh look the bigoted nonsense works just as well that way around!

Christianity and Islam share the exact same damn roots, they along with Judaism are all Abrahamic faiths, most of which was stolen from even older religions.
.

Hahaha you made me laugh hard! You know nothing!

Do you know how islam started? From where? By whom? And why?! What are the original teachings?! How the Quran was assembled along the years?! Do you know the Quran, the Sira, the Hadith, etc.?!

Islam and Christianity "seem" to be similar on the surface because Islam shares some Judaism stories as you said. But in essence, they are completely the opposite!
Christianity calls for equality, forgiveness and acceptance of everyone!
Islam calls for the opposite and claims Islam is the only religion that should be and everyone else should either convert or surrender and pay fees (Jizia).

With all due respect, do some ****ing research before posting nonsense! I researched and know a lot about both faith. You didn't!

 

[mustafur]

incoming in 3, 2, 1.....

 

[Scaff]

Hahaha you made me laugh hard! You know nothing!

Do you know how islam started? From where? By whom? And why?! What are the original teachings?! How the Quran was assembled along the years?! Do you know the Quran, the Sira, the Hadith, etc.?!

Islam and Christianity "seem" to be similar on the surface because Islam shares some Judaism stories as you said. But in essence, they are completely the opposite!
Christianity calls for equality, forgiveness and acceptance of everyone!
Islam calls for the opposite and claims Islam is the only religion that should be and everyone else should either convert or surrender and pay fees (Jizia).

With all due respect, do some ****ing research before posting nonsense! I researched and know a lot about both faith. You didn't!

Important point number 1, cut the attitude and the insults. Fail to do so and your membership is going to come to an end rather quickly.

Yes I have read the Koran, the hadiths, etc. I've traveled and worked in the Middle East and North Africa.

I'm more than aware of how all three Abrahamic faiths came into being, the history of them, how they have changed and evolved over time. The good and the bad.

You seem to have forgotten that what seems to be your chosen faith calls for the death of rape victims who don't cry out enough, should they live then the rapist can buy them to get his sins forbidden. Rude children can be murdered, as can people who eat prawn, get tattoos, are gay, wear mixed fibres.

Oh and christianity calls for the death of unbelievers as well, repeatedly.

I can keep going with examples from all three faiths (and other faiths as well if you link, Hindi, Sikhism, Buddism, the lot all have examples).

So rather that the swearing and abuse you may want to take a look at the history and texts of all faiths before you start attempting to call out others.

 

[photonrider]

Those humble good mulsims you are referring to, are the ones who never read the Quran, or if they did, they completely overlooked a big part of it! They simply decided to overlook all the violence in there!

Fake news.
I never noticed you beside me on my tour.

As well . . . my post was addressed to Dotini on the 'Mary' connection.

 

[Dotini]

TH Lawrence, "Lawrence of Arabia", traveled in the Middle East and met many Muslims. Yet he was a secret agent for Britain, and did great harm to Muslims, Britons and even the whole world. These British secret agents are still with us, patiently working their agenda.

 

[Georgeagea]

Oh and christianity calls for the death of unbelievers as well, repeatedly.

So rather that the swearing and abuse you may want to take a look at the history and texts of all faiths before you start attempting to call out others.

Oh please tell me where did Christianity (meaning new testament) call for the death of unbelievers! Enlighten me!

I have read history and texts about those 3 faiths (dunno about the others), and I can discuss it with you or argue about it if you want.

My comments are based on "knowledge" and "experience". Knowledge of what I read, watched, knew, etc... and Experience of what I'm living and experiencing in the middle east.
You may have some knowledge but some "travels" and some "work" in the middle east are not enough for a good experience!
We have been in this land for centuries (even before Islam) and we know what Islam is.
Go beat that, if you can.

 

[Famine]

Christianity (meaning new testament)

That sound... it's almost unmistakeable...

*slowly turns to check on where the goalposts were*

My comments are based on "knowledge" and "experience".

I'm not sure if you realise, but putting words in quote marks in that fashion essentially makes them look insincere - and really, unnecessary hostility and profanity aside, your entire posts are dripping in an terrible attitude.

Perhaps it's a language barrier, but then if you were to try straightforward communication rather than sarcasm and condescension, you'd find a more receptive audience.

 

[Dotini]

Christians and Muslims are like mud and clay for British secret agents and other players of The Great Game.

 

[Scaff]

Oh please tell me where did Christianity (meaning new testament) call for the death of unbelievers! Enlighten me!

Christianity isn't just the the New Testament, odd that Christians like to try and pretent it doesn't count at moments like this. YOu know ignoring the bad, just as you accused Muslims of doing only a few posts ago.

You don't get to cherry pick, even your messiah stated that he had not come to replace the old laws, but to uphold them.

Can you also point out the part of the NT that contains the 10 commandments? As they are quite prominent displayed in every Christian church I have ever been in. That can't be the case if (as you claim) Christianity is only the NT.

I have read history and texts about those 3 faiths (dunno about the others), and I can discuss it with you or argue about it if you want.

Not very well it would seem.

My comments are based on "knowledge" and "experience". Knowledge of what I read, watched, knew, etc... and Experience of what I'm living and experiencing in the middle east.
You may have some knowledge but some "travels" and some "work" in the middle east are not enough for a good experience!

My family lived in the region for a decade. Stop making assumptions, its not serving you very well at all.

Your knowledge of even your own faith is also either lacking or deliberate biased (or both).

We have been in this land for centuries (even before Islam) and we know what Islam is.
Go beat that, if you can.

The location of your birth doesn't provide you with an automatic knowledge or lack of bias.

 

[BobK]

@Georgeagea, I would very strongly recommend you read some of @Scaff's posts in this thread. You'll find he's quite knowledgeable about religion in general and the Abrahamic ones in particular. I don't often see eye to eye with him, but in this area I certainly defer to his knowledge.

 

[Georgeagea]

Without new testament there's no Christianity, it'll be Judaism! That's why I said the new testament.
If you quote an old testament text, then you're quoting Judaism, if you neglect the new testament, and I'm not into defending that!

You cannot read half of a book and suppose you read it all!

Quote any part of the old testament, but in order to be a christian quotation, I'll have to read it and understand it on the light of the new testament! It's the 2nd part of the book! Without that, you'll be reading half the story; and any half truth is a lie.

So yeah @Scaff , He came to fulfill and continue the story, the 2nd part of the book, the 2nd part of our knowledge of God.

"The location of your birth doesn't provide you with an automatic knowledge or lack of bias." ==> Actually it does. When you live with someone for years, you actually get to know him, by experience, even without reading any books about him.

I'll end my part by saying this, and please MARK MY WORDS and REMEMBER THEM coz it'll happen very soon and already started: You'll be able to put my claims under test in the near future:
The fruits of Islam in the western world, and especially Europe for now, are starting to bloom. Europe will experience several suicide bombings and terrorist attacks, all because of accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open! Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights, change the legislation, change the institutions and change eventually the society. Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners, and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws. Europe and the western world will regret its mistake, but by then it'll be too late.

I know many muslims are already reading this post; some of them being very peaceful and European by birth. That might not include them. I'm talking here about the general flow of things; some will take part some won't, but the income will remain the same.

Sorry if that annoys some, but it's just my opinion and truth in my eyes.

Peace.

 

[Scaff]

Without new testament there's no Christianity, it'll be Judaism! That's why I said the new testament.
If you quote an old testament text, then you're quoting Judaism, if you neglect the new testament, and I'm not into defending that!

You cannot read half of a book and suppose you read it all!

Quote any part of the old testament, but in order to be a christian quotation, I'll have to read it and understand it on the light of the new testament! It's the 2nd part of the book! Without that, you'll be reading half the story; and any half truth is a lie.

I didn't say that the NT was irrelevant, I said that you don't get to ignore the OT in the manner you just tried to.

It's however quite telling that you have chosen to avoid, rather than actually answer the questions I asked (however not surprising).

So yeah @Scaff , He came to fulfill and continue the story, the 2nd part of the book, the 2nd part of our knowledge of God.

And at no point did he say that the OT doesn't count, rather quite the opposite. So you are either talking nonsense or your messiah is wrong, which is it?

"The location of your birth doesn't provide you with an automatic knowledge or lack of bias." ==> Actually it does. When you live with someone for years, you actually get to know him, by experience, even without reading any books about him.

That must be how I know more about Christianity than you then!

Anecdotal noise is what you are attempting to present as fact, its not.

I'll end my part by saying this, and please MARK MY WORDS and REMEMBER THEM coz it'll happen very soon and already started: You'll be able to put my claims under test in the near future:
The fruits of Islam in the western world, and especially Europe for now, are starting to bloom. Europe will experience several suicide bombings and terrorist attacks, all because of accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open! Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights, change the legislation, change the institutions and change eventually the society. Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners, and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws. Europe and the western world will regret its mistake, but by then it'll be too late.

I know many muslims are already reading this post; some of them being very peaceful and European by birth. That might not include them. I'm talking here about the general flow of things; some will take part some won't, but the income will remain the same.

Sorry if that annoys some, but it's just my opinion and truth in my eyes.

Well that all just went a bit far right christian didn't it.

Peace.

Nope, you don't get to claim that while you are also attempting to 'other' people.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Without new testament there's no Christianity, it'll be Judaism! That's why I said the new testament.
If you quote an old testament text, then you're quoting Judaism, if you neglect the new testament, and I'm not into defending that!

What makes quoting the old testament invalid, when it makes 50% of the whole story?
I mean... you wrote so yourself:

You cannot read half of a book and suppose you read it all!

The new testament fully builds up on the old.

 

[Joey D]

"The location of your birth doesn't provide you with an automatic knowledge or lack of bias." ==> Actually it does. When you live with someone for years, you actually get to know him, by experience, even without reading any books about him.

That's called ethnocentrism which means you only look at the world through the eyes of your own culture. It's not a good way to view the world if you truly hope to understand another's culture.

I'll end my part by saying this, and please MARK MY WORDS and REMEMBER THEM coz it'll happen very soon and already started: You'll be able to put my claims under test in the near future:
The fruits of Islam in the western world, and especially Europe for now, are starting to bloom. Europe will experience several suicide bombings and terrorist attacks, all because of accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open! Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights, change the legislation, change the institutions and change eventually the society. Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners, and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws. Europe and the western world will regret its mistake, but by then it'll be too late..

And now you're on some watch list because that sounds an awful lot like a threat. People have been investigated for less.

 

[ryzno]

because that sounds an awful lot like a threat.

TBH most some of the stuff he said already happens/ed.

 

[Scaff]

TBH most of the stuff he said already happens/ed.

The only part that has happened is that we have had bombings and attacks (however they are still at a lower level than past Christian and political bombings in the past), however they haven't happened due to "accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open".

Lets have a look at the rest:

Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights: Shoudl they not have the same rights any other person has? Limited rights based on religion is a good thing?
change the legislation: Nope
change the institutions: Nope
change eventually the society: Nope
Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners: Nope
and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws.: Nope

So no, most of that 'stuff' hasn't already happened at all, outside of the fantasy world of the far right and a few idiots that have ended up in jail (before someone cites the single incident of Sharia Patrols).

 

[TenEightyOne]

The fruits of Islam in the western world, and especially Europe for now, are starting to bloom. Europe will experience several suicide bombings and terrorist attacks, all because of accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open! Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights, change the legislation, change the institutions and change eventually the society. Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners, and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws. Europe and the western world will regret its mistake, but by then it'll be too late.

An interesting premise. Firstly, for you to be absolutely right, Muslims can't be "Westerners" - despite their long history in European civilisation. You might need to enlighten us on your defintion of "Westerner". What of European countries that are now "christian" which were once "muslim"? Why shouldn't any part of a society be part of the evolution of institution, law, and ultimately part of the evolution of society itself? Your society isn't anything like it was 100 years ago and nor is mine. Nor did those 100-years-ago societies represent those a hundred years before that. What's our ideal benchmark - feudalism? The dark ages? Stone banging?

What's wrong with Shariah law when it's not a system of government (which there's no chance of it being in any European country)? Do you even know what Shariah actually is?

Peace.

Clever... unless you genuinely don't know the word in Arabic.

 

[Mr Tree]

What's wrong with Shariah law when it's not a system of government (which there's no chance of it being in any European country)? Do you even know what Shariah actually is?



Clever... unless you genuinely don't know the word in Arabic.

What the word in arabic means is rather irrelevant to the discussion wheter sharia (used in this context meaning: religious law) is an issue

If you don't see the issue I'm baffled lot's of cultural and religious law are immoral and unethical. And that isn't the biggest issue with it! A lot of those laws are contradictory to laws of european countries. So if we allow people to follow religious/cultural laws by choice we effectively say they are allowed to not follow the laws of said country.

By the way just like you I don't see this coming into europe as @Georgeagea describes. But saying religious/cultural law is not an issue is wrong on multiple levels.

Take christianity! They are allowed to psychologically abuse their children. Yes telling your kids they'll burn in hell if they don't do this or that or don't believe is pure abuse.

So these things matter! Just not in the way the first one said it.
​

 

[TenEightyOne]

If you don't see the issue I'm baffled lot's of cultural and religious law are immoral and unethical. And that isn't the biggest issue with it! A lot of those laws are contradictory to laws of european countries. So if we allow people to follow religious/cultural laws by choice we effectively say they are allowed to not follow the laws of said country.

Shariah has to observe the parent laws of the country where it operates - that's one of its basics. After that it's pure contract law and can be judged by any party that both contractees agree to (in this case a Shariah "court"). The findings and action of that court are still bound by the country's parent laws so in effect it's no different to you and I agreeing a private contract. If one of us feels the need to sue the other over a contractual breach then we can use private arbitration or the courts of the land. Neither of us can use the contract or its settlement to commit actions that are criminal in the law of the land. This has been covered here many times already, albeit mostly in the Islam thread.

What the word in arabic means is rather irrelevant to the discussion wheter sharia (used in this context meaning: religious law) is an issue

True, but he used it to sign a post that was far wider-reaching. He chose to sign it "Islam", which struck me as odd.

 

[huskeR32]

My comments are based on "knowledge"

Quite.

 

[zzz_pt]

Oh please tell me where did Christianity (meaning new testament) call for the death of unbelievers! Enlighten me!

Jesus:
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."

Luke 19:27

Unless the words have no meaning, this is calling for the death of nonbelievers.

 

[Mr Tree]

@TenEightyOne

I understand that a countries law superceeds the one of sharia law. But if that's how one looks at whichever cultural/religious law, what is the purpose of that law? Why not just follow the 'normal' law? As sharia should not override this it's rendered usrless as any assertion within sharia that's not held up by traditional courts does not have to be honoured. If a law does not need to be honoured should we still call it law?

I'm looking forward to your opinion on sais matter.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I understand that a countries law superceeds the one of sharia law. But if that's how one looks at whichever cultural/religious law, what is the purpose of that law?

Personal agreement, nothing more. Observance of any arbitrary set of rules outside national law are (or should be) through personal choice. Look at all the people in the US or UK who have opted into christian shariah and are duly contracted to marry a certain way, live a certain way, give tithe and so on. That's not required by the laws of the land and no illegal act can be imposed on those people.

What is the purpose of it... now that's a good question for the God thread. I don't know

 

[Mr Tree]

Personal agreement, nothing more. Observance of any arbitrary set of rules outside national law are (or should be) through personal choice. Look at all the people in the US or UK who have opted into christian shariah and are duly contracted to marry a certain way, live a certain way, give tithe and so on. That's not required by the laws of the land and no illegal act can be imposed on those people.

What is the purpose of it... now that's a good question for the God thread. I don't know

To clearify:
I don't want to ban religion. I find teaching religion to kids to be, well I don't really know the correct word but let's say not a smart move considering our knowledge of how the brain develops. I have no idea how to fix this issue (of free choice) other then we don't let kids drink alchohol for very sililar reasons. I'm ok with this answer sadly some aren't.

Why I say this? I don't want to take away peoples free choice to follow a religion and it's rules. I hope one day we reach the point we don't have religious people. But what worried me within this freedom is how people van be pressured under these circumstances to commit acts, however small or insignificant, they don't support.

This is my personal problem to solve within our current day situation and I don't have the answer.

But the only answer I have currently is to be voicefull about my opinions. That theaching these stories has some unintended (bad) consequences. And that these institutions have the same problem within them.
This so to give people who are wondering my opinion and thoughtprocess so they can make their own choice, whatever that may be.

Thank you for the lovely talk! Would like to continu it some day!