Do you believe in God?

[UKMikey]

Whether religion in itself is a good or bad thing I think it's those people who have religion instead of education and critical thinking which are really in trouble rather than those who have a healthy mix of both. Fundies like to deny their followers the chance of decent schooling.

 

[Danoff]

healthy mix of both.

There's no "healthy mix" of faith in the supernatural. Maybe you meant "more healthy".

 

[UKMikey]

There's no "healthy mix" of faith in the supernatural. Maybe you meant "more healthy".

I did. [EDIT] I guess it is supposed to be a "bad thing" then.

 

[FoRiZon]

Accept and love muslims, reject and fight hardliners and extremism.!

Fixed that for you.

Dont forget to include every religion, race, nationalists, and groups in existence.

 

[Georgeagea]

Jesus:
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."

Luke 19:27

Unless the words have no meaning, this is calling for the death of nonbelievers.

Hahaha I promised myself not to reply because the level of ignorance in here is quite shocking and sad!
I cannot for God's sake understand how you don't see what's around you! The dangers surrounding you! And yet you still keep defending it blindly!

English is not my original language so it'll take me some time to reply to everything and I don't have the time to!

I invite you all to watch this guy's videos avid Wood! He was a former atheist, like most of you I suppose (judging your replies), and he is a VERY SCIENTIFIC methodical person that analyses everything and don't speak out of feelings but rather logic and facts!
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
He makes lots of awesome videos. He also makes debates against some of the most known Muslim and atheist debaters!

Again, he's very objective and discusses books, texts and facts, so go open your mind a little bit about what's really going on out there!
He does make some irony sarcasm fun videos too, if you like.

Now to go back to your verse above, your analogy is full of mistakes:
Please read the whole paragraph starting at verse 11!
1- This is a "example, instance, parable, exemplar, proverb". It's a made up story He told them just to make them understand how faithful we should be.
2- In that parable, the king represents GOD. The creator of everything! He makes you live and die! So if He wants to kill someone (let's suppose that), He can absolutely do it. It's His right, as we are His creation! He's the only one who has that right actually!
3- Enemies of God refers to Satanic empire! Satan and his followers!
Throughout the new testament, God makes sure to let us know that He loves all His creation! We are all His kids! He loves us all!
So we can't be His enemies, no matter how bad we behave! It refers to Satan and his followers, whom should be also our enemies!
Notice in that example, he didn't call after the bad servant to be killed, but after his enemies! So it's not him!

Fixed that for you.

Dont forget to include every religion, race, nationalists, and groups in existence.

Wrong actually!
Yes there are fanatics in every religion, that's obvious!
But you are discussing here the people which I'm not! Some will always be good and some bad! This is how it will always be!
I'm discussing the ideology here!
Islam by definition is terror! Muhammad himself said "I was made victorious through Terror!". Islam spread by wars and conquests.
Christianity is the definition of love! Jesus teachings are the biggest proof! Christianity spread on the dead bodies of the early apostles who were killed and eaten by lions!
Big difference! HUGE actually! Like day and night!

The only part that has happened is that we have had bombings and attacks (however they are still at a lower level than past Christian and political bombings in the past), however they haven't happened due to "accepting Islam and Muslim refugees with hands open".

Lets have a look at the rest:

Soon enough, they'll start claiming rights: Shoudl they not have the same rights any other person has? Limited rights based on religion is a good thing?
change the legislation: Nope
change the institutions: Nope
change eventually the society: Nope
Soon they'll start imposing stuff on Westerners: Nope
and after that they'll impose Shariaa Laws.: Nope

So no, most of that 'stuff' hasn't already happened at all, outside of the fantasy world of the far right and a few idiots that have ended up in jail (before someone cites the single incident of Sharia Patrols).

I said it started and will happen soon enough for you to witness!

I also told you to mark my words and remember them!
So I still stand by it because it's the natural flow of things!
If you read history you should know that!

What makes quoting the old testament invalid, when it makes 50% of the whole story?
I mean... you wrote so yourself:

The new testament fully builds up on the old.

Seems you didn't read what I wrote!

I never said quoting the old testament is wrong! I said reading it alone, as if the new testament never existed, is not a Christian behavior! Because that'll be Judaism! Their book ends there! Jesus came to continue the story (as I said in that post too).

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm discussing the ideology here!
Islam by definition is terror! Muhammad himself said "I was made victorious through Terror!".

That isn't from the qu'uran. I thought you were more well-read than that? Do you know where it's from?

Christianity is the definition of love! Jesus teachings are the biggest proof!

I hate to say it but it seems that you're not too well-read at all. Begin with the testaments, perhaps? Don't make the mistake of thinking that non-believers haven't been raised in particular religions or that they haven't read/understood the texts.

I invite you all to watch this guy's videos avid Wood! He was a former atheist, like most of you I suppose (judging your replies), and he is a VERY SCIENTIFIC methodical person that analyses everything and don't speak out of feelings but rather logic and facts!
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics

I got about fifteen minutes in. You should summarise the points you'd like us to look at. He's a self-confessed anti-evolutionist sociopath. Not the greatest fifteen minutes of my life.

Do you believe that evolution happens around us or, like him, do you believe that it's "an ideology that other people have told us about"?

 

[Georgeagea]

That isn't from the qu'uran. I thought you were more well-read than that? Do you know where it's from?


I hate to say it but it seems that you're not too well-read at all. Begin with the testaments, perhaps? Don't make the mistake of thinking that non-believers haven't been raised in particular religions or that they haven't read/understood the texts.


I got about fifteen minutes in. You should summarise the points you'd like us to look at. He's a self-confessed anti-evolutionist sociopath. Not the greatest fifteen minutes of my life.

Do you believe that evolution happens around us or, like him, do you believe that it's "an ideology that other people have told us about"?

Did I say the Quran said that or did I say Mohamad said that?!?!

I definitely know where that comes from and that's why I said Mohamad said that and not the Quran!

Let's not forget that most muslims (Shia and Sunna) also consider the Hadith and Sira as guidance, in addition to the Quran. Only a very small part consider the Quran alone, and they are being treated as Khawarej (a cult) to Sunna and Shia.
In any way, I can give you maybe 50+ verses from the Quran asking directly and indirectly for violence!

Again, for you and others, I'm Arab myself! My main language is Arabic! I live in a muslim majority country! I have lots of muslim friends!
So please... I know what I'm saying! I have read the Quran in Arabic, the way muslims claim it should be read.
Get over that attitude! I'm no guy trying to play smart here!
I have enough knowledge to honestly, and modestly, say : I know about Islam more than 75% of muslims! The remaining 25% are those Imams and Sheikhs as well as extremists (whether they commit terrorism or not; some are extremists but inactive).

EDIT: Oh and honestly I didn't get your last question! Can you rephrase it or clarify it in any way?!

 

[TenEightyOne]

I definitely know where that comes from and that's why I said Mohamad said that and not the Quran!

So an after-the-fact hadith by one man (those words weren't written by mohamed of course) is enough for you to presume that all muslims are terrorists (if they all believe in- and support terror then that must be the case)?

What about the christian and judaic testaments that were made up and written by men?

EDIT: Oh and honestly I didn't get your last question! Can you rephrase it or clarify it in any way?!

Do you believe that evolution happens?

 

[Georgeagea]

So an after-the-fact hadith by one man (those words weren't written by mohamed of course) is enough for you to presume that all muslims are terrorists (if they all believe in- and support terror then that must be the case)?

What about the christian and judaic testaments that were made up and written by men?

Do you believe that evolution happens?

"those words weren't written by mohamed of course"; yes, probably spoken by him though!

Do you know that this Hadith is collected inside this book: The Hadith, collected by BUKHARI (4.52.220). This is a true Hadith confirmed by Mulsim scholars?!

I can't believe you people, you presume stuff I never said! This is getting crazy!

Where on earth did I say "all muslims are terrorists"!?!?!?!
I said Islam is the very definition of Terrorism and a Satanic Religion, and I still stand by that!
But I said I have lots of muslim friends that I like, some muslims are awesome and better than christians, just like any religion, because we are all humans after all!
I love most muslims! They are innocent victims in my opinion/view! They were born like that (at least most of them); it's not their fault! But I hate their faith/religion as simple as that! It's something that should be fought and explained and exposed!

What do you mean by evolution?! The theory of evolution or you mean like regular evolution in society?!

 

[TenEightyOne]

"those words weren't written by mohamed of course"; yes, probably spoken by him though!

Do you know that this Hadith is collected inside this book: The Hadith, collected by BUKHARI (4.52.220). This is a true Hadith confirmed by Mulsim scholars?!

Yes. It's confirmed as being written down by a fallible person. That's why some parts of that particular hadith are disputed while others are commonly accepted as erroneous.

Where on earth did I say "all muslims are terrorists"!?!?!?!

I toke that inference when you said

Islam by definition is terror!

If Islam is "terror" by definition then it follows that muslims must be terrorists, surely? The alternative is that in fact the qu'uran is many many centuries old and relates to society, thinking and practices as they were in the first millenium. Any sensible member of the religion might be tempted to pick the good parts. That'd be much like christianity, no?

Again, for you and others, I'm Arab myself!

So what? (!)

About a third of muslims are arabs - is that what you're getting at?

What do you mean by evolution?! The theory of evolution or you mean like regular evolution in society?!

Evolution. Do you believe in it?

 

[zzz_pt]

Hahaha I promised myself not to reply because the level of ignorance in here is quite shocking and sad!

I agree. But not on my side.

I cannot for God's sake understand how you don't see what's around you! The dangers surrounding you! And yet you still keep defending it blindly!

I'm not defending anything. You said the new testament didn't include a single line calling for the death of unbelievers. You're wrong.

English is not my original language so it'll take me some time to reply to everything and I don't have the time to!

I invite you all to watch this guy's videos avid Wood! He was a former atheist, like most of you I suppose (judging your replies), and he is a VERY SCIENTIFIC methodical person that analyses everything and don't speak out of feelings but rather logic and facts!
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
He makes lots of awesome videos. He also makes debates against some of the most known Muslim and atheist debaters!

Again, he's very objective and discusses books, texts and facts, so go open your mind a little bit about what's really going on out there!
He does make some irony sarcasm fun videos too, if you like.

I gave up on the first 5 minutes. He was just talking nonsense. If you share his best video, I might watch it.

Now to go back to your verse above, your analogy is full of mistakes:
Please read the whole paragraph starting at verse 11!

I did. I know what a parable is. I was a baptist for 25 years of my life. They're supposed to teach the believers something in a straightforward manner. Also I didn't make an analogy. The sentence clearly says:

King = Jesus / God
Orders his followers (believers) to bring his enemies (unbelievers / rebels) and kill them before him.

1- This is a "example, instance, parable, exemplar, proverb". It's a made up story He told them just to make them understand how faithful we should be.

How faithful you should be or else what?

2- In that parable, the king represents GOD. The creator of everything! He makes you live and die! So if He wants to kill someone (let's suppose that), He can absolutely do it.

He doesn't say: bring them and I will kill them. He says "bring them here and kill them in front of me". So, again, a call for his followers to slaughter unbelievers.

It's His right, as we are His creation! He's the only one who has that right actually!

So you think that is something an all living being would do. Kill his loved ones if they don't agree or don't love him back? Not to mention the fact that he "created" imperfect beings in the first place, then demanded them to act and behave just to please him. If that's your notion of love and care, good for you.

3- Enemies of God refers to Satanic empire! Satan and his followers!

Most scholars and commentaries on this passage don't agree with you. They clearly state the unbelievers are the Jews, the people who rejected Christ. They say, indeed, that it might be a reference to the second coming, but, either way, they agree that the enemies of the King are the people who rejected Christ (the Jews). I'd add that all the other individuals who reject Christ are included in the "enemies" part - atheists, of course, pagans, greeks, etc, etc ,etc).

What would be the point of the parable if there was no direct implication of human beings? If all it mentions are satan and demons (spiritual creatures - which I don't believe exist), there's nothing for humans to learn from it. Also, how would the followers of Jesus bring satan and his followers before him and "kill" them? One of the most important christian dogmas is that Jesus himself will kill satan and eradicate his kingdom in the end of the story. Not his followers.

Throughout the new testament, God makes sure to let us know that He loves all His creation! We are all His kids! He loves us all!
So we can't be His enemies, no matter how bad we behave! It refers to Satan and his followers, whom should be also our enemies!
Notice in that example, he didn't call after the bad servant to be killed, but after his enemies! So it's not him!

The bad servant was a believer, so of course he was not an enemy. That's pretty clear.

Have you noticed that eternal fire (hell) only appears with the new testament too? Eternal punishment for finite sins comes with Jesus. The Jews (and the new testament) do not believe/mention eternal suffering after death for those who don't follow Yeshua.

The last book of the bible, which focuses more on the details of hell and the eternal punishment, was only included in the canon centuries after Jesus's death. There was another candidate for the final book but it was "too nice" and the Church feared their flock would leave the religion if there was no hell, no eternal fire. So they - the council - decided for this book instead (supposedly written by John, even though no one knows who actually wrote it, because a lot of writers from that era would put John, Peter, Luke, Mark, Mathews, James, etc, as author just so the texts would spread faster and have higher credibility).

This is, of course, a very short and rough summary. You can read and investigate that by yourself.

___

I don't actually care what the bible says to be honest because it's not an accurate or reliable "book". It's a collection of pieces of texts from unkown authors, for the most part, full of factual errors, contradictions, added and subtracted parts along the ages, different translations and meanings, etc, etc.

Any maths book will be accurate, with zero margin or error for interpretation. Anyone, in any part of the world can read it and work with to reach the same conclusions. They only need to know maths. The bible (or any other book for that matter) is not like that. You can justify everything and its opposite with it.

 

[Dennisch]

Christianity is the definition of love! Jesus teachings are the biggest proof!

This is exactly the same as when a Muslim says that Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[Georgeagea]

Yes. It's confirmed as being written down by a fallible person. That's why some parts of that particular hadith are disputed while others are commonly accepted as erroneous.



I toke that inference when you said



If Islam is "terror" by definition then it follows that muslims must be terrorists, surely? The alternative is that in fact the qu'uran is many many centuries old and relates to society, thinking and practices as they were in the first millenium. Any sensible member of the religion might be tempted to pick the good parts. That'd be much like christianity, no?



So what? (!)

About a third of muslims are arabs - is that what you're getting at?



Evolution. Do you believe in it?

First I like how you quoted what you want and dismissed what doesn't benefit your case! Like saying "No GOD" but forgetting about "Except Allah", from the known muslim chahada.
I said this: "I love most muslims! They are innocent victims in my opinion/view! They were born like that (at least most of them); it's not their fault! But I hate their faith/religion as simple as that! It's something that should be fought and explained and exposed!"
So NO, your claim "If Islam is "terror" by definition then it follows that muslims must be terrorists, surely? " is wrong and I already answered that!

Second, please show the reference that this quote is commonly accepted as erroneous?!?! All the sources I have found claim this is true, and included in Sahih!

This is exactly the same as when a Muslims says that Islam is a religion of peace.

Exactly, but we can prove it through the whole humble peaceful life of Jesus and his awesome teachings (of which most Human rights were inspired). And can be proven through his death and rising from the dead (which is proven historically to have happened)!
We can also prove the falseness of the muslims claims through the violent, full of war, rape and sex life of their so-called prophet!

Easy! You can claim anything, but you should be able to prove it!

@TenEightyOne no i don't believe in Evolution in that same definition! Yes there is evolution naturally but not to the extent of change in nature!
So yes lions in india may be smarter than the ones in africa because of some kind of a natural necessity!
But no, we are not descendant of apes, if that what you're looking for!

 

[Dennisch]

Exactly, but we can prove it through the whole humble peaceful life of Jesus and his awesome teachings (of which most Human rights were inspired). And can be proven through his death and rising from the dead (which is proven historically to have happened)!
We can also prove the falseness of the muslims claims through the violent, full of war, rape and sex life of their so-called prophet!

Easy! You can claim anything, but you should be able to prove it!

I would really like to see that evidence. And no, the bible is just as much a source of proof as any other fictional book.

 

[Georgeagea]

I would really like to see that evidence. And no, the bible is just as much a source of proof as any other fictional book.

You can find most of these online.
Just google the historical evidence of resurrection.

I myself, recommend you read this book "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.

 

[Dennisch]

You can find most of these online.
Just google the historical evidence of resurrection.

I myself, recommend you read this book "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.

So, you can't provide the evidence.

 

[zzz_pt]

You can find most of these online.
Just google the historical evidence of resurrection.

I myself, recommend you read this book "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.

Apart from you ignoring my previous post altogether, are you really giving us this man as your best source / evidence for the claims you just made?

 

[TheCracker]

And can be proven through his death and rising from the dead (which is proven historically to have happened)!

Easy! You can claim anything, but you should be able to prove it!

no i don't believe in Evolution in that same definition! Yes there is evolution naturally but not to the extent of change in nature!
So yes lions in india may be smarter than the ones in africa because of some kind of a natural necessity!
But no, we are not descendant of apes, if that what you're looking for!

So you believe in The Resurrection, even though the evidence for which is tenuous to say the least, but you don't believe in Evolution even though the evidence for it is in abundance?

 

[BobK]

And can be proven through his death and rising from the dead (which is proven historically to have happened)!

[Citation required] particvularly about the "rising from the dead" part. And biblical quotes/commentary most decidedly do NOT count as "proof". Show us this proof that you claim exists.

 

[Famine]

You can claim anything, but you should be able to prove it!

Indeed you should.

Just google the historical evidence of resurrection.

But no, we are not descendant of apes

 

[BobK]

You can find most of these online.
Just google the historical evidence of resurrection.

That's not the way it works around here. You made the claim, you supply the evidence.

And it doesn't matter which side of the debate one is on, that's the way we do things here.

There is a lot of history in this thread and also this one. You would do well to do a quick review.

 

[Joey D]

Christianity is the definition of love! Jesus teachings are the biggest proof! Christianity spread on the dead bodies of the early apostles who were killed and eaten by lions!

So, how bout them Crusades?

 

[mistersafeway]

Christianity spread on the dead bodies of the early apostles who were killed and eaten by lions!

Let's see... the likely myth of Christians thrown to lions, it being the apostles specifically (?), and just being an all round argumentum ad martyrdom...

Citation needed. A citation good enough to dismiss all the evidence we have that Christianity spread by the sword. I look forward to this.

 

[UKMikey]

So, how bout them Crusades?

C'mon, now, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[photonrider]

Hahaha I promised myself not to reply because the level of ignorance in here is quite shocking and sad!
I cannot for God's sake understand how you don't see what's around you! The dangers surrounding you! And yet you still keep defending it blindly!

English is not my original language so it'll take me some time to reply to everything and I don't have the time to!

I invite you all to watch this guy's videos avid Wood! He was a former atheist, like most of you I suppose (judging your replies), and he is a VERY SCIENTIFIC methodical person that analyses everything and don't speak out of feelings but rather logic and facts!
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
He makes lots of awesome videos. He also makes debates against some of the most known Muslim and atheist debaters!

Again, he's very objective and discusses books, texts and facts, so go open your mind a little bit about what's really going on out there!
He does make some irony sarcasm fun videos too, if you like.

Now to go back to your verse above, your analogy is full of mistakes:
Please read the whole paragraph starting at verse 11!
1- This is a "example, instance, parable, exemplar, proverb". It's a made up story He told them just to make them understand how faithful we should be.
2- In that parable, the king represents GOD. The creator of everything! He makes you live and die! So if He wants to kill someone (let's suppose that), He can absolutely do it. It's His right, as we are His creation! He's the only one who has that right actually!
3- Enemies of God refers to Satanic empire! Satan and his followers!
Throughout the new testament, God makes sure to let us know that He loves all His creation! We are all His kids! He loves us all!
So we can't be His enemies, no matter how bad we behave! It refers to Satan and his followers, whom should be also our enemies!
Notice in that example, he didn't call after the bad servant to be killed, but after his enemies! So it's not him!



Wrong actually!
Yes there are fanatics in every religion, that's obvious!
But you are discussing here the people which I'm not! Some will always be good and some bad! This is how it will always be!
I'm discussing the ideology here!
Islam by definition is terror! Muhammad himself said "I was made victorious through Terror!". Islam spread by wars and conquests.
Christianity is the definition of love! Jesus teachings are the biggest proof! Christianity spread on the dead bodies of the early apostles who were killed and eaten by lions!
Big difference! HUGE actually! Like day and night!



I said it started and will happen soon enough for you to witness!

I also told you to mark my words and remember them!
So I still stand by it because it's the natural flow of things!
If you read history you should know that!



Seems you didn't read what I wrote!

I never said quoting the old testament is wrong! I said reading it alone, as if the new testament never existed, is not a Christian behavior! Because that'll be Judaism! Their book ends there! Jesus came to continue the story (as I said in that post too).

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The real God would need nothing. That's Absolute Power.

Hahaha I promised myself not to reply because the level of ignorance in here is quite shocking and sad!

Is that a fact?

 

[TenEightyOne]

C'mon, now, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

* watches wall expectantly *

 

[Scaff]

I invite you all to watch this guy's videos avid Wood! He was a former atheist, like most of you I suppose (judging your replies), and he is a VERY SCIENTIFIC methodical person that analyses everything and don't speak out of feelings but rather logic and facts!
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
He makes lots of awesome videos. He also makes debates against some of the most known Muslim and atheist debaters!

Again, he's very objective and discusses books, texts and facts, so go open your mind a little bit about what's really going on out there!
He does make some irony sarcasm fun videos too, if you like.

I've seen his work before and no he's not even close to being objective.

He routinely quotes out of context and does little more than promote intolerance, which is rather ironic given you claims of peaceful Christians.

Exactly, but we can prove it through the whole humble peaceful life of Jesus and his awesome teachings (of which most Human rights were inspired). And can be proven through his death and rising from the dead (which is proven historically to have happened)!
We can also prove the falseness of the muslims claims through the violent, full of war, rape and sex life of their so-called prophet!

As opposed to the utter lack of violence, sex, incest, genocide, rape, etc. in Christian texts?

Easy! You can claim anything, but you should be able to prove it!

Go on then.


@TenEightyOne no i don't believe in Evolution in that same definition! Yes there is evolution naturally but not to the extent of change in nature!
So yes lions in india may be smarter than the ones in africa because of some kind of a natural necessity!
But no, we are not descendant of apes, if that what you're looking for![/QUOTE]
Which would indicate you don't have a clue what evolution actually is.

 

[Dotini]

Don't shout Allahu Akbar in Venice. The police have orders to shoot you dead.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/well-send-straight-god-venice-11043606

 

[Dennisch]

Don't shout Allahu Akbar in Venice. The police have orders to shoot you dead.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/well-send-straight-god-venice-11043606

Safer than Barcelona. Well duh, How much speed and momentum will you gain in a Gondola?

 

[UKMikey]

Don't shout Allahu Akbar in Venice. The police have orders to shoot you dead.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/well-send-straight-god-venice-11043606

Video has subsequently emerged of the left-wing mayor of Florence, Dario Nardella, rushing up to Brugnaro after the speech shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and laughing.

He has since taken to Facebook to apologise for his actions.