Do you believe in God?

[UKMikey]

What comes on consciousness, I'm sure every living organ has it. Some more basic, some more developed. Did you for example know when you are lawn mowing (cutting the grass), maimed grass and hay will begun to spread chemical toxins around "to make it stop and alarm fellow grass"?
It doesn't effect on lawn mowing person at all but smell of cut grass. But that is all what basic grass as defence can do.
So lawn mowing is murder!

Lawn mowing may be murder on one's back sometimes but if it really ends the life of grass then why do we have to come back and keep doing it?

 

[Tappajakoala]

UKMikey,
Must be because link between common grass and common lizards. God works mysterious ways.

 

[Scaff]

Yes. Normal. Nature seeks options. When they fail, dinosaurs happens. Where are dinosaurs now?

Someone doesn't understand how evolution functions.

What I made up and what I have to disprove?

You claimed that if homosexuality was 'normal' that it would account for 50% of the population and challenged people to disprove it; the 50% is a figure you have pulled out of your arse, as it the logic behind it. Prove it should be 50% first.

You are asking which was first egg or chicken. I don't know.

Eggs, that ones rather easy.

Western civilization is at point that if you just happen to be caucasian, male, meat eating heterosexual you just are easy target to be guilty on every sin on earth. Modern, future issues and past. We are unable to defend ourselves.

Yep, you have a rather big chip on your shoulder. News flash, others getting the same rights and ability to be heard in society does make you oppressed.

I honestly didn't take that into consideration before you begun nitpicking about it.

Still not nitpicking, and maybe you should now take it into consideration. Interesting that you also ignored the paper on the evolutionary hypothesis behind it as well.

To refer two random episodes's of The Simpsons quote (not related): They are worse than Hitler.
(Yes, eventuallly somebody by Godwin's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law will pick up Hitler-card)

Now aside from Godwin himself suspending his own law, it has nothing at all to do with the question or point I made. So please pull your head out of your 'alt-bro' arse and actually address them.

I did limit my description to simplified path for meaning of life, ignoring side stories.
If you focus on any living organs from germs to trees and plants, from fish to human beings, their meaning of life is to born, to survive, to eat, to spread and to die.

Also to comment your last sentence. If man wants to go surgery and attach rubber boot his forehead. Nature has not meant rubber boot attached onto his head but if he has money and strong will for surgeon to demand this is they way he identified himself as rubber boot man - fine. Surgeon would do best to attach rubber boot on his head and make customer happy.

I still would call this man an idiot. Same definition goes on surgery and hormone changed transgender people.

First please cite a case of boots naturally occurring on a species head spontaneously to ensure your not using false equivalence.

Oh that and the existence of Chimerism, means its actually perfectly possible to have two different DNA strands with the body of differing sexes (nor is biological sex limited to two either). Nor that development of the organs is not a homogeneous singular event, as clearly illustrated by the fact that men have nipples.

Cheers. I don't consider me being alpha male, but I keep my own opinions and don't follow the flow. This doesn't seem to be acceptable on some people and I hurt their feelings though no intentions on it.

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean peoples feelings are hurt, but that is an interesting assumption to make.

What comes on consciousness, I'm sure every living organ has it. Some more basic, some more developed. Did you for example know when you are lawn mowing (cutting the grass), maimed grass and hay will begun to spread chemical toxins around "to make it stop and alarm fellow grass"?
It doesn't effect on lawn mowing person at all but smell of cut grass. But that is all what basic grass as defence can do.
So lawn mowing is murder!

The organism didn't die, its not murder.

So my vote goes on panpsychism. As an atheist, I don't believe in souls, gods and I think every religion as basic are wrong.

Religion is human defect like transgender people.

And the truth finally emerges.

People make you feel icky so they are defective.

 

[Tappajakoala]

Jebus...Scaff. You are sounding like Social Justice Warrior... I guess you are vegan too?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Religion is human defect like transgender people.

Can we make crap like this a bannable offense? This is dehumanizing a whole group people.

 

[Famine]

If homosexuality would be equal normal as heterosexuality, there would be roughly 50% of entire population which cannot get offspring natural way.
Prove me wrong.

If you're seriously suggesting that any given characteristic must have at least a 50% penetrence in a population to be considered "normal", then no hair colour but black is normal, no eye colour but brown is normal and no skin colour but brown is normal. We won't even get into things like left-handedness.

"Normal" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Jebus...Scaff. You are sounding like Social Justice Warrior... I guess you are vegan too?

Discuss the subject, not the people discussing it.

The subject, of course, being belief in deities. Please direct your views on transgender issues, veganism, feminism and homosexuality to more appropriate threads.

 

[Scaff]

Jebus...Scaff. You are sounding like Social Justice Warrior... I guess you are vegan too?

I'm neither, but its interesting to see that in place of discussion we now have personal digs.

Who was it that was supposed to be getting offended?

 

[Tappajakoala]

If you're seriously suggesting that any given characteristic must have at least a 50% penetrence in a population to be considered "normal", then no hair colour but black is normal, no eye colour but brown is normal and no skin colour but brown is normal. We won't even get into things like left-handedness.

"Normal" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

During night I didn't make complete weeks of study and thesis to add correct numbers of percentages related X on Y or anything.

I simplified and made simple example, not in any part I claim it was complete fact. I have no intention to waste my time with some "intellectuals" who thinks they are better than others.

Discuss the subject, not the people discussing it.

Well, I had to check out what I'm depating with. Some people are just not worth to discuss further with. You and some other people in this heat are free to feel same about me. I don't take that as offence. Do you guys?

Can we make crap like this a bannable offense? This is dehumanizing a whole group people.

Thanks G.T.Ace,

You made very perfect example what is very wrong in this world nowadays.
When some people can't tolerate others viewpoints they are taunting to get people with "wrong opinions" silenced way or another. Long live political correctness!

 

[Famine]

During night I didn't make complete weeks of study and thesis to add correct numbers of percentages related X on Y or anything.

I simplified and made simple example, not in any part I claim it was complete fact.

You said that if homosexuality was normal it would be 50% of the population, and asked to be proven wrong. That's what I did.

I have no intention to waste my time with some "intellectuals" who thinks they are better than others.

Ah yes, people who present information think they are better than others, but people who are literally denigrating entire swathes of humanity as abnormal and defective don't.

Well, I had to check out what I'm depating with.

If you're trying to make the discussion about the people you're discussing with, you're not debating anything.

Stick to the topic, rather than the characteristics and personalities of other people. That's not a request.

 

[Tappajakoala]

You said that if homosexuality was normal it would be 50% of the population, and asked to be proven wrong. That's what I did.

I might have had poor choice of words, but I said if homosexuality would be equal normal than ....
Equal from two options, this case hetero or non hetero would be 50%. for both.

 

[G.T.Ace]

When some people can't tolerate others viewpoints they are taunting to get people with "wrong opinions" silenced way or another. Long live political correctness!

Surprise! Opinions can be wrong. Pure gold to complain about people who want to "silence" your opinions, while dehumanizing a whole group of people and backing this nonsense with false information.

equal normal

Yeah, keep on digging that hole.

 

[Famine]

I might have had poor choice of words, but I said if homosexuality would be equal normal than ....
Equal from two options, this case hetero or non hetero would be 50%. for both.

For one thing to be equal in quantity to another thing, presuming only two things, they need to both have 50%. Well, congratulations, you've just solved a Y2 math problem on how to slice a cake in half. I'm not sure what it adds to the discussion - although it does require you to presume that only homosexuality and heterosexuality exist (you're excluding both [bisexuality] and neither [asexuality]) and exist as defined limits rather than a spectrum.

That aside, your thoughts on homosexuality still belong in the homosexuality thread. This isn't that thread.

 

[Imari]

I did limit my description to simplified path for meaning of life, ignoring side stories.
If you focus on any living organs from germs to trees and plants, from fish to human beings, their meaning of life is to born, to survive, to eat, to spread and to die.

And as I said, that's kind of limiting. You've simplified it to the point that nothing that a human does that doesn't contribute directly to the production of the next generation is meaningless.

And I think that misses a lot of why humans have been so dominant as a species. It's not because any single human is particularly deadly, or even any family of humans. But as a community, we're more than a match for any community of any other species. A community of humans contains a proportion of "breeders", for want of a better word, but that community succeeds also because of the contribution of all the members. Children don't survive long enough without people doing all the non-breeding work as well, and those people don't need to want to breed or even to be capable of it. Arguably, having people in the community who are uninterested in breeding could be an efficiency gain, allowing specialisation of tasks instead of every member having to take time off to go squirt some juices or pop a sprog.

Also to comment your last sentence. If man wants to go surgery and attach rubber boot his forehead. Nature has not meant rubber boot attached onto his head but if he has money and strong will for surgeon to demand this is they way he identified himself as rubber boot man - fine. Surgeon would do best to attach rubber boot on his head and make customer happy.

I still would call this man an idiot. Same definition goes on surgery and hormone changed transgender people.

What about cosmetic surgery?

If a woman gets her breasts made larger, is she an idiot?
If a woman gets her breasts made smaller because they naturally cause her physical pain and obstruction, does that make her an idiot?
If a man gets facial reconstructive surgery after an accident, is he an idiot?
What if it allows him to find a mate and breed when otherwise he would have not been able to?

What if a man gets cosmetic surgery to look more "masculine" because he has naturally "feminine" physical characteristics? Is that the same as getting a rubber boot on the head?

I think you've made an intentionally ridiculous example to avoid talking about the real issue. If someone wants to alter their appearance surgically, is that a legitimate choice? Or does that make them "defective"?

I think what scares "alpha males" most about transgender is the idea that you could look at a woman and find her attractive, but she was born a man. Or worse, that she's still swinging junk between her legs. Oh noes! Does that mean you're homosexual?!

Religion is human defect like transgender people.

Maybe if you conveyed your views using less derogatory language and actually presented some justification for them your opinions would be better received. And some people wonder why atheists are sometimes held in such contempt.

Actually, that's not fair. It's nothing to do with atheism, and everything to do with the ability of the person speaking to communicate with other humans in a rational and reasonable manner without the need to belittle them.

 

[Tappajakoala]

G.T.Ace,

In which point I was dehumanizing anyone? I let all flowers grow as they want. I don't agree with what some of them are saying or declaring, but I let them speak. It's freedom of speech and they have all right for it.

 

[Scaff]

G.T.Ace,

In which point I was dehumanizing anyone? I let all flowers grow as they want. I don't agree with what some of them are saying or declaring, but I let them speak. It's freedom of speech and they have all right for it.

You literally stated that a group was defective, that's dehumanising.

You've also been repeatedly complaining about them having a voice, stating in doing so they somehow persecute white, straight, meat eating males!

Now given that I'm one of those and I don't feel the same as you, I can only guess that the issue is with you rather than straight, white, meat eating males.

 

[G.T.Ace]

G.T.Ace,

In which point I was dehumanizing anyone? I let all flowers grow as they want. I don't agree with what some of them are saying or declaring, but I let them speak. It's freedom of speech and they have all right for it.

I've quoted where you did it. Also, freedom of speech isn't the problem, freedom to exist is.
You're saying transgender people have a defect and you're saying homosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality aren't normal, because they're a minority.
Your opinion can hurt people. There's a reason why the suicide rate is so high for transgender people. It's because people like you defend their bigotry hiding behind "freedom of speech".

 

[Tappajakoala]

For one thing to be equal in quantity to another thing, presuming only two things, they need to both have 50%. Well, congratulations, you've just solved a Y2 math problem on how to slice a cake in half. I'm not sure what it adds to the discussion - although it does require you to presume that only homosexuality and heterosexuality exist (you're excluding both [bisexuality] and neither [asexuality]) and exist as defined limits rather than a spectrum.

I was afraid of somebdy stirring further that so I left from any pseudo percentages asexuals, animelover and anima lovers off. My bad.

That aside, your thoughts on homosexuality still belong in the homosexuality thread. This isn't that thread.

That escalated quit rapidly.
In fact in my original comment about my opinion does god exist, I replied "no" and described we might be actually in Hell already describing some plausible examples including word LGBT. I don't know if I'd get away from comment more easier if I'd replaced LGBT with word transgender.


Sexuality seems to be extremely sensitive topic nowadays. Nobody here did got offended about my insults towards Trump, Putin nor Bieber.

 

[Dobermann92]

Reading the previous comments, this topic is a bit derailed. Homosexuality has nothing to do with the existence of a god. So I'll try to be on topic. I don't believe in any god since I was 15 years old, I was raised as a catholic by my grandmothers, but I've soon (around 9-10 years old) realised that there is something wrong with Genesis 1:1 because I love dinosaurs and I have books on them and those said that the Earth is 4,5 billion years old. It explained clearly while others couldn't prove the opposite to me and they were nervous about my questions. I soon became a deist, because nobody could gave me answers or lied to me. I was around 15 years old when I realised that probably there is no god and I started to research in the topic. I've ran into a youtuber whose name is Darkmatter2525 and his cartoons were the final nail in the coffin for me, since then I call myself an atheist.

 

[Famine]

I was afraid of somebdy stirring further that so I left from any pseudo percentages asexuals, animelover and anima lovers off. My bad.

Asexuality is part of the spectrum of sexuality. Paraphilias are nothing to do with sexual orientation, so that's a false equivalence.

In fact in my original comment about my opinion does god exist, I replied "no" and described we might be actually in Hell already

If you don't believe in a deity, why do you believe in hell?

Nobody here did got offended about my insults towards Trump, Putin nor Bieber.

Nobody here got offended at all. Pretending other people are offended because they're questioning your bizarre comments is a tactic to avoid having to debate properly - the same as starting to bring other people's characteristics into the discussion is. In fact, it's a tactic Trump himself employs.

Again, your thoughts on homosexuality, transgender issues, anime, zoophilia (and other paraphilias), feminism, veganism and the oppression you face as a straight, white (minority), male (minority in the developed world) all belong in other threads.

 

[Tappajakoala]

Sorry it took long to reply on this due I had to edit quotes and such.

What about cosmetic surgery?

If a woman gets her breasts made larger, is she an idiot?

Yes

If a woman gets her breasts made smaller because they naturally cause her physical pain and obstruction, does that make her an idiot?

No, that's acceptable due health issues.

If a man gets facial reconstructive surgery after an accident, is he an idiot?

No, that's very acceptable due accident and fixing face to as good as it was before accident.

What if it allows him to find a mate and breed when otherwise he would have not been able to?

I suppose you mean is it OK (or idiotic) for person to have cosmetic surgery on face to have better change to find mate and breed?
In my opinion it's quite similar than first question about breast implants. Calling it idiotic would be too harsh but same goal. By faking your outlook so you get attraction of other people.

Sorry my harsh words next in advance.
For example, if ugly person gets him/herself modified to look more better he/she still carries genes of original ugly him/herself. Offspings will get portion of these ugly genes, not modified look ones. If you have Vauxhall Vectra and put chassis of Ferrari F40 on it, it's still Vauxhall.

What if a man gets cosmetic surgery to look more "masculine" because he has naturally "feminine" physical characteristics? Is that the same as getting a rubber boot on the head?

Yes, such idiotic than breast implants.

I think you've made an intentionally ridiculous example to avoid talking about the real issue. If someone wants to alter their appearance surgically, is that a legitimate choice? Or does that make them "defective"?

In modern world you can get pretty much everything with money. Is it necessary or not? Legimate sure if somebody pays to somebody who has skills and tools to do the job. Defective? I would use word vain.

I think what scares "alpha males" most about transgender is the idea that you could look at a woman and find her attractive, but she was born a man. Or worse, that she's still swinging junk between her legs. Oh noes! Does that mean you're homosexual?!

Basically yes.

Maybe if you conveyed your views using less derogatory language and actually presented some justification for them your opinions would be better received. And some people wonder why atheists are sometimes held in such contempt.

Oh snap!

Actually, that's not fair. It's nothing to do with atheism, and everything to do with the ability of the person speaking to communicate with other humans in a rational and reasonable manner without the need to belittle them.

I keep my rights to my own opinions. You may not like them, but please allow me to have them.

 

[ian_f]

I used to.

 

[Tappajakoala]

If you don't believe in a deity, why do you believe in hell?

Excellent point and question!

I don't believe in hell either.
I also said in one of my replies in this topic "God works mysterious ways". It doesn't mean't I made 180 degree turn and accepted god in past two hours. I though it was joking way to pull out comment in this so hostile turned discussion.

That's also good bridge to dilemma some religious people will make up if I made it up I don't believe in god.
Some of them think I believe satan then. Satanism as religious is opposite polar to other religions which are aware of evil.
For me as atheist it's religious nonsense as other religions.

Other strong believers on the other hand questionates my morality if I don't believe. Moral has nothing to do with religions, You become how you are raised up by rules from family, society and culture. At somepoint of your life you shall be enough experienced and educated in life you can make different between good and bad. If you throw fellow mate with rock and cannot make difference is it good or bad, you can first ask yourself how would you feel to being thrown with rock? In fact some religions encourages people to throw other with rocks... Where's their moral?...

Again, your thoughts on homosexuality, transgender issues, anime, zoophilia (and other paraphilias), feminism, veganism and the oppression you face as a straight, white (minority), male (minority in the developed world) all belong in other threads.

You know nothing about my views of homosexuality. I've described by biology perspective that without outside help non-heterosexual mates cannot get offspring.
You and few others are making false assumptions of me and categorizing me into pigeonholes of your own minds.
I tell you a secret if you didn't get it already. I have nothing against gay people, I want them have all rights to live in piece and harmony and joy with rest of us.
I have zero interest what people do in their own bedroom. Only plausible issue with this could be if I'm looking for new job and I'm equal skilled and talented for task than other job seeker who just happen to be gay. Gay will get chosen because he/she is gay. It'd rather favour flipping the coin for two of us.

Anime is japanese style of art. Not my thing but I have not really opinion of it either. Used Anime word while nitpicking in one of my posts here because I was kind of challenged why I didn't notice asexuals or other little groups on my test.

Zoophilias. Like above word used as nitpicking along with other minor groups.

Feminsim is twin sibling of chauvinism. I don't tolerate either. I'm all for human rights and gender equalizing, but if one group comes to taunt at me and accusing me about offenses and wrong doing my gender ancestors has done in past, it's plain bigotry.

Veganism. There's carnivores, herbivores and mixed ones. At school ages ago were were told it's quite easy to check out from species which one is: teeth.
Sharp teeth are to tear meat and use as weapon for hunting. Blunt teeth are typical for herbivores, so chew gars and leaves. Mixed ones has both teeth.
Humans have both type of teeth. Veganism is alright for them who can upkeep that diet and live with it, but when and quite often veganism turns out to be ism - religion. Then poo begun to hit into fan.

Race is not being on direct topic here, but my roots here in fennoscandinavian are from times when ice age's ice layer was moving away and that time cavemen came here to fish, hunt, fight and farm. They did happen to have pale tone of skin. Finland has not being at any point in position to conquer other countries to build colonies and slay original people. More or less we have been victims of major conflicts. However, still as caucasian I've been labelled at global world about white man who'se history been oppressive and abusing power and I should even feel ashame of it. Why?

 

[Scaff]

In fact some religions encourages people to throw other with rocks... Where's their moral?...

Odd then that you manage to do the same without religion.

Oh, don't ever watch the Netflix series Sense8, that will scare the crap out of you.

Oh and in regard to if a person is straight or not, its not binary as the Kinsey scale illustrates.

 

[Tappajakoala]

Don't worry I don't do Netflixes. Humbugh.

 

[ryzno]

Lawn mowing may be murder on one's back sometimes but if it really ends the life of grass then why do we have to come back and keep doing it?

HOAs and city ordinances.

 

[Scaff]

Don't worry I don't do Netflixes. Humbugh.

And once again we have selective replies that avoid the difficult questions

 

[Tappajakoala]

Scaff,

I've been multitasking lot of replies on same time. I have no all time for you, honey. :kiss:

 

[Imari]

Nobody here did got offended about my insults towards Trump, Putin nor Bieber.

Some probably did, but given that Trump is objectively unstable with nuclear weapons and that Putin is a murderer the insults seemed fair. Bieber is a running joke that no one takes too seriously. Kid got famous and rich way too young, but even still is remarkably talented.

Writing off an entire group of people simply because they made a choice about their own lives that affects you in no way seems...worthy of note at the very least. It was made more worthy of note when you labelled anyone who is religious or anything but cis-heterosexual as defective. That covers most of the planet right there, and it would be one hell of a purge to get rid of them all.

There's probably a decent argument for humans in general being defective, but I doubt that's it.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff,

I've been multitasking lot of replies on same time. I have no all time for you, honey. :kiss:

So no answers then, what a surprise.

 

[Dobermann92]

Religious people most of the time either delusioned or doesn't have the critical thinking skills because of religious brain washing or they just don't care about the topic (but in my experience, the latter ones mostly fall into either the deist or the agnostic category).

Homosexuality is a genetic "defect" (or variation if you want to be more kind), but it isn't harmful for the society so we allow it. Pedophilia on the other hand is, so they should be treated of it even though they also don't had the chance. That is how I see the things.

There are religious people who are smart but they become illogical when they try to defend their religion. Atheists are mostly logical when comes to religions (although you can be an atheist for illogical reasons).