Do you believe in God?

[TenEightyOne]

Of course not, but it's the topic of discussion. When I debate a religion, I can debate it and compare to other religious views.
However, how can you discuss them if you really believe that there's no God?! What would be the purpose/benefit of such debate for you?!

Religions are the product of their history in society, anybody can debate the facts, stories and beliefs that religions are made up of. Belief in the core pillars of faith for any given religion is not a necessity for that debate.

Cross-posted from the Islaam thread for topicness.

 

[nostradavor2]

I'd really love to. I think praying when you really believe is healing and beautiful.. Unfortunately, I haven't got my call yet

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'd really love to. I think praying when you really believe is healing and beautiful.. Unfortunately, I haven't got my call yet

To be clear... you want to believe in god but you don't? Why not?

 

[nostradavor2]

To be clear... you want to believe in god but you don't? Why not?

Exactly. But I don't know what can I add. I think religious people can find big comfort and peace and have better quality of life.

 

[Dotini]

Exactly. But I don't know what can I add. I think religious people can find big comfort and peace and have better quality of life.

Stated slightly differently: I think people who are concerned only with materialistic, financial or status advancement would find more peace, comfort and quality by balancing their lives with spiritual, artistic or passionate interests. For example, participation in a creative anachronism society might accomplish the same benefit as participation in a religion.

 

[baldgye]

Exactly. But I don't know what can I add. I think religious people can find big comfort and peace and have better quality of life.

It's true that people can find their own ignorance comforting, but I don't think this should be the goal to achieve happiness. You should be happy and comfortable with yourself.

 

[Dotini]

Above, Demeter

as it was conceived by the Greeks. We must remember that the statues had a deeply sacred and religious character for the Hellenes and that, in addition of being works of art, they were also the height of geometric feeling and engineering, since the balance had to be perfect. The Greeks, who had a great knowledge of the analyses of features, represented in their statues not only beautiful people, but beautiful people with a necessarily beautiful soul.

 

[nostradavor2]

It's true that people can find their own ignorance comforting, but I don't think this should be the goal to achieve happiness. You should be happy and comfortable with yourself.

From my POV, I agree with you. But if you look bigger picture, ignorance is actually claiming something that there is no way you can confirm 100% (That there's no God in some form).

@Dotini
I like that way of thinking, for someone to be happy, I think it's really important to have that spirritual, creative, passionate segments in life.

 

[Scaff]

From my POV, I agree with you. But if you look bigger picture, ignorance is actually claiming something that there is no way you can confirm 100% (That there's no God in some form).

Good job atheists don't do that, non-theists and theists do however in equal measure.

 

[baldgye]

From my POV, I agree with you. But if you look bigger picture, ignorance is actually claiming something that there is no way you can confirm 100% (That there's no God in some form).

The ignorance is the making of wild claims and attributing it to the supernatural.

 

[nostradavor2]

The ignorance is the making of wild claims and attributing it to the supernatural.

You can say that about many many things in thr world..

Than again, I think ignorance is blessing

 

[baldgye]

You can say that about many many things in thr world..

Than again, I think ignorance is blessing

You can, but you can also say you don’t know haha... there are many things I do not know or understand, but simply not knowing isn’t anything that scares me.

While ignorance is bliss, the ignorance of one only causes misery for others.

 

[HenrySwanson]

There's been much talk of the simulation hypothesis in scientific circles, but can it be used to explain the existence of a "god"?

https://hackernoon.com/religion-and-the-simulation-hypothesis-is-god-an-ai-part-i-e2ac0016ca1e

 

[Rallywagon]

Well, to be fair, I think if there were a "God" or gods, they would likely be just a more advanced species out there in the cosmos, not some supernatural sky fairy.

 

[Dotini]

There's been much talk of the simulation hypothesis in scientific circles, but can it be used to explain the existence of a "god"?

https://hackernoon.com/religion-and-the-simulation-hypothesis-is-god-an-ai-part-i-e2ac0016ca1e

That's a very interesting and thought-provoking article. IMO it falls a bit short of explaining or establishing the existence of "god" per se. But I think it could very well be used, particularly if combined with additional available supporting evidence*, to justify considering the existence of some higher intelligence which would be generating or controlling certain fundamental aspects of our experienced reality.

*Anthropic principle
*The weird fact that Earth is at the center of the universe
*etc.

 

[Dobermann92]

That's a very interesting and thought-provoking article. IMO it falls a bit short of explaining or establishing the existence of "god" per se. But I think it could very well be used, particularly if combined with additional available supporting evidence*, to justify considering the existence of some higher intelligence which would be generating or controlling certain fundamental aspects of our experienced reality.

*Anthropic principle
*The weird fact that Earth is at the center of the universe
*etc.

Except there is no center of the universe. It is all about observation, we observe as it was the case but actually if you went to Mars and did the same thing you would believe that Mars is the center of the universe.

I think that believing that things are controlled in a special way instead of "organized" chaos has no basis other than wanting to believe that this is the case. While an AI controlled simulation as a hypothesis could be interesting, it has too many flaws that if it is a simulation then it is a very bad one done by a faulty AI. I know people who just cannot accept that there is nothing more in the universe for us because that is very, very terrifying, but dismissing the truth won't lead anybody closer to the answers they want to ask.

 

[Dotini]

Except there is no center of the universe. It is all about observation, we observe as it was the case but actually if you went to Mars and did the same thing you would believe that Mars is the center of the universe.

I think that believing that things are controlled in a special way instead of "organized" chaos has no basis other than wanting to believe that this is the case. While an AI controlled simulation as a hypothesis could be interesting, it has too many flaws that if it is a simulation then it is a very bad one done by a faulty AI. I know people who just cannot accept that there is nothing more in the universe for us because that is very, very terrifying, but dismissing the truth won't lead anybody closer to the answers they want to ask.

Actually there is a center of the universe, and it's our solar system.

AND NO! They are not saying this because “Every point in the Universe looks like the Center to the observer.”
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-earth-really-at-the-center-of-the-universe

And I disagree that this line of argument must be about wanting a certain outcome, or explanation. Evidence will lead the way for the rational and the realistic observer. The explanation with the fewest anomalies and unexplained phenomena will be attractive. Although you may wash your hands of the entire problem and go with the multiverse explanation, reducing everything to random chance. And I wouldn't blame you if you did.

 

[mistersafeway]

Actually there is a center of the universe, and it's our solar system.

We’re not even the centre of our :censored:ing galaxy, how could we possibly be the centre of the universe? Even if by some weird fluke our galaxy is the centre of the universe then we run into the problem of us orbiting around the centre. So are we, somehow, currently, temporarily in the middle of the universe and we won’t be very soon, or is this just the fact we can only look out from where we are, and thus have no chance of ever figuring out if there even is a centre to the universe? I could let you have crack at it, but there’s no point, the answer is obvious, and it’s not that we’re at the centre of the universe.

 

[Dotini]

We’re not even the centre of our :censored:ing galaxy, how could we possibly be the centre of the universe? Even if by some weird fluke our galaxy is the centre of the universe then we run into the problem of us orbiting around the centre. So are we, somehow, currently, temporarily in the middle of the universe and we won’t be very soon, or is this just the fact we can only look out from where we are, and thus have no chance of ever figuring out if there even is a centre to the universe? I could let you have crack at it, but there’s no point, the answer is obvious, and it’s not that we’re at the centre of the universe.

There is another, better choice, which is that there are a near-infinity of universes in which our solar system is not at the center. Thus it is merely happenstance that we are at the center in this universe; pure random chance.

 

[Rallywagon]

You should take this over to the space thread, and while you're at it Dotoni, make sure you add in some citation there. I don't think astronomy has thought our star system was the center of the universe since the dark ages.

 

[Dotini]

You should take this over to the space thread, and while you're at it Dotoni, make sure you add in some citation there. I don't think astronomy has thought our star system was the center of the universe since the dark ages.

Please see post #3002, Space in General thread, made yesterday at 6:54 AM.

 

[Novalee]

Please see post #3002, Space in General thread, made yesterday at 6:54 AM.

It didnt make sense as our universe is not a sphere.

As far as a god , im not sure a god would create a universe , then wait to billion years to make a planet with selfdestructive humans only to head towards pollutting their home planet to the point of no return . I think a god would do a better job or whats point of being a god ?

 

[Dotini]

According to the results of the WMAP, COBE and PLANCK cosmic background microwave investigations (as cited above, #21497), our solar system is indeed the center of the universe. How you deal with that information is up to you. The easy way is to say it's coincidence. There may be a million other universes in which we are not at the center, and in which we do a better job of stewarding our planet. If we destroy our habitat here, perhaps we'll get another chance in the next geological epoch? Perhaps we are subjects being monitored in some kind of laboratory or experiment?

 

[BobK]

Because God did it? There ya go, I brought it back on-topic for ya!

 

[Dotini]

Because God did it? There ya go, I brought it back on-topic for ya!

I deny that God did it. I slightly prefer your earlier suggestion that it was aliens. But even better are the ideas that it is an AI hologram, or a natural self-organizing process, or a delusion of consciousness, or best of all merely a funny coincidence.

 

[Daz555]

Actually there is a center of the universe, and it's our solar system.

True but only in the sense that every point in space is the centre of the universe. There is nothing special about the solar system in that sense.

For those struggling with a mental model about how that can be true. Picture a 2D universe which exists only on the surface of a balloon - the balloon started out infinitely small and then expanded out. Which bit of the surface of the now larger balloon is the centre? Answer - all of it (or none of it I suppose!).

 

[TenEightyOne]

True but only in the sense that every point in space is the centre of the universe. There is nothing special about the solar system in that sense.

The centre of the universe is at 1 S Boston Ave, Tulsa, OK 74103, USA. Google it if you don't believe it. Although I did Google it, and I certainly don't

True but only in the sense that every point in space is the centre of the universe. There is nothing special about the solar system in that sense.

For those struggling with a mental model about how that can be true. Picture a 2D universe which exists only on the surface of a balloon - the balloon started out infinitely small and then expanded out. Which bit of the surface of the now larger balloon is the centre? Answer - all of it (or none of it I suppose!).

You forgot the ant

 

[Dotini]

There are some who believe in God and some who do not. Yet there is another system which believes in two Gods, one of dark (evil) and one of light (good). You can find these types of religions in Zoroastrianism and Catharism or Gnostics, as well as in the Game of Thrones and modern Hinduism . The Cathars emphasized that man and Earth were created by the evil god, and the good one was trying to help them find a way out. The Cathars of course were all (?) exterminated in the Albigensian Crusade by the Catholic Church.

The yin and yang symbolizes the duality in nature and all things in the Taoist religion.

This idea of a contest over the destiny of man by good and evil forces is perhaps interesting if only because there does seem to be real good and real evil in our world which is struggling in a milieu of increasing secularism and atheism, whose views on the good/evil question are less clear. Or are they?

Science - cosmology and astrophysics - has rather cheekily dubbed one of their great Unsolved Problems of Physics as the "Axis of Evil".

 

[PocketZeven]

There are some who believe in God and some who do not. Yet there is another system which believes in two Gods, one of dark (evil) and one of light (good). You can find these types of religions in Zoroastrianism and Catharism or Gnostics, as well as in the Game of Thrones and modern Hinduism . The Cathars emphasized that man and Earth were created by the evil god, and the good one was trying to help them find a way out. The Cathars of course were all (?) exterminated in the Albigensian Crusade by the Catholic Church.

The yin and yang symbolizes the duality in nature and all things in the Taoist religion.

This idea of a contest over the destiny of man by good and evil forces is perhaps interesting if only because there does seem to be real good and real evil in our world which is struggling in a milieu of increasing secularism and atheism, whose views on the good/evil question are less clear. Or are they?

Science - cosmology and astrophysics - has rather cheekily dubbed one of their great Unsolved Problems of Physics as the "Axis of Evil".

As an atheist I believe in that duality and balance. However the concept of a personification of that duality in the form of celestial entities are something I do not believe in. These are concepts that were made up to explain those dualities. Gods and demons are just ancient fiction for me.

 

[Dobermann92]

As an atheist I believe in that duality and balance. However the concept of a personification of that duality in the form of celestial entities are something I do not believe in. These are concepts that were made up to explain those dualities. Gods and demons are just ancient fiction for me.

I'm also an atheist, but I don't believe that concept, I believe that there is nothing in the universe which caters to anything or anybody. There is no balance because good and evil are just man made concepts. We invented them to ease ourselves of the fear that we are just a speck of dust in the big and scary universe and we can't control anything in it.