Do you believe in God?

[CodeName]

*scours*

Nope. Still not seeing that empirical data Allah would want me to see in order for it to convince me it exists.

You can do yourself a couple of favours at this point. First - which you won't do - stop trying to prove your beliefs. Beliefs are unproveable - the fact you seek to do so speaks more strongly about the fragility of your belief than the ignorance of others. Secondly, don't bother posting "evidence" of "miracles" that are simply retconned reinterpretation of miscellaneous verse - just post empirical data that the Qu'ran got right hundreds of years before the rest of humanity caught up.

No hearsay and conjecture. Just the facts, ma'am.

Why don't you see reality when it is infront of you? Quran is not a math book, it is a warn for everyone. I wish Allah talk about gran turismo, but it is not that sort of book, you wish there are numbers you are looking for, but it is a religious book and if these numbers were there, they wouldn't make sense. There are a lots more scientific miracles but they don' contain number or calculations. I can post a lots more miracles, but I doubt you will believe it is from GOD. Do some one else find that it isn't the book of GOD and if not, why ( of course I don't force any one to believe. I'm just asking )?

4:82

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

 

[DQuaN]

This is not reality.

These are not miracles.

This is only how you have interpreted them (or been taught to interpret them).


To most OPEN MINDED people, it is just coincidence in fairy tales.

Very vague coincidence at that.

 

[CodeName]

This is not reality.

These are not miracles.

This is only how you have interpreted them (or been taught to interpret them).

To most OPEN MINDED people, it is just coincidence in fairy tales.

Very vague coincidence at that.

Ok, then go check all other interprated version of Quran on websites of the surahs I put there about miracles, go one page before .

 

[homeforsummer]

I can post a lots more miracles, but I doubt you will believe it is from GOD.

Again: Something written in a very, very old book, isn't necessarily evidence that it happened.

Your sole source of any of these miracles is a book. The original witnesses cannot be spoken to, there has been no evidence of any miracles in empirical texts since, and there have been none in our lifetimes that can be reliably corroborated.

The sole source that suggests any of these things ever happened is in an old book. That isn't evidence, no more than the aforementioned Narnia example, or any other number of unsubstantiated odd occurrences written about in books throughout the history of time.

 

[Dennisch]

This is one of the finest examples of brain washing I have seen in this thread so far.

I like it.

 

[Liquid]

It's amazing that God stopped appearing and talking to us when we started recording these things down.

 

[DQuaN]

Ok, then go check all other interprated version of Quran on websites of the surahs I put there about miracles, go one page before .

I've highlighted the issue with that statement.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I wish Allah talk about gran turismo, but it is not that sort of book, you wish there are numbers you are looking for ...

GTPEDIA Vol. II

by Jordan Greer and Andrew Evans, and Allah.



That'd be a trick

 

[axletramp]

So does this mean I can stop believing what's in GTPedia? But... but it's a book, it must be true!

It's amazing that God stopped appearing and talking to us when we started recording these things down.

Indeed. I would lump that in the same bracket as ghost and UFO (aliens) sightings have strangely slowed since we all started carrying mobiles and smart phones.

I would have thought it in any God's favour just to do something incontrovertible to save time and get everyone believing, or at the very least get the jump on any of the other Gods.

 

[CodeName]

I've highlighted the issue with that statement.

You think it is interprated. I ask you then go check all others interprated surahs you think they are false. As I said before, there are zero doubt in the Quran in arabic but many doubt in the translations version because to translate word by word, people often take the wrong word unfortunately.

 

[axletramp]

So only people who speak Arabic can truly understand God? That's either a very short-sighted God or rather exclusive of some of his 'children', isn't it?

 

[CodeName]

So only people who speak Arabic can truly understand God? That's either a very short-sighted God or rather exclusive of some of his 'children', isn't it?

Yes, the arabic isn't changed since 1400 years and all other languages are evolving every day, changing grammar with new rules ... But you can still read the Quran with a very good level if you find the best translation of the world which I think may exists.

 

[axletramp]

There are older languages than Arabic, so why wait until it was invented? Why not give your messages to mankind in ancient Chinese or Sumarian? Why not now spread your message to a wider audience in English without the need for misinterpretation?

Edit: Nice edit after my post. Which BTW contradicts your 'translation' argument.

 

[CodeName]

There are older languages than Arabic, so why wait until it was invented? Why not give your messages to mankind in ancient Chinese or Sumarian? Why not now spread your message to a wider audience in English without the need for misinterpretation?

Edit: Nice edit after my post. Which BTW contradicts your 'translation' argument.

No it doesn't because the exact same word in arabic doesn't exists in english or in another language. I didn't understand your first post, which english audience and why?

 

[axletramp]

Exactly my point. If the 'Word of God' can only be truly understood in Arabic, why wait for thousand's of years for Arabic to be invented (by man) to get your message out? And why now not renew your message for all of mankind to understand? Outwardly it would appear that God only wanted a certain section of mankind to worship him and he bases that destinction on a man-made language. Convenient for Arabic speakers, not so convenient for God, don't you think?

 

[Famine]

Why don't you see reality when it is infront of you?

I do. This is what's meant by the term "empirical".

Quran is not a math book

So why were you pretending it was when talking about Sirius?

I wish Allah talk about gran turismo, but it is not that sort of book, you wish there are numbers you are looking for, but it is a religious book and if these numbers were there, they wouldn't make sense.

That's a shame. I mean, if just once Allah had said to Mohammed "See that thing? Aye, that's a roughly spherical mass of hydrogen and helium undergoing fusion. It's 5,000 degrees at the surface and it's about 93 million miles away, depending on the point at which the Earth is in its orbit", it'd have saved a lot of silly guesswork and interpretation from folk over the next 1,400 years.

Not sure how those numbers wouldn't make sense - particularly if passed across in the creation myth section.

There are a lots more scientific miracles but they don' contain number or calculations.

Then they are neither miracles nor scientific.

I can post a lots more miracles, but I doubt you will believe it is from GOD.

All you have to offer is stories and your interpretations of them after-the-fact. Much like the interpretations of Nostradamus's quatrains or any other kind of wishful thinking.

Neither the Qu'ran nor any other scripture contains any information unknown to the people of the day, nor any prediction for information that was yet to be discovered. Unless you can post empirical data that shows otherwise.

 

[CodeName]

Exactly my point. If the 'Word of God' can only be truly understood in Arabic, why wait for thousand's of years for Arabic to be invented (by man) to get your message out? And why now not renew your message for all of mankind to understand? Outwardly it would appear that God only wanted a certain section of mankind to worship him and based that destinction on a man-made language.

First: the Quran came and has completed the arabic langugage with a lots of new words that Muhmmad ( peace be upon him ) kney their significations, it has completed the arabic language. Scientific also say that the Quran bring lots of words for the arabic language.
Second: the response is simple. Because Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) was born in arabia and he was the man selected by GOD to deliver his message to us.

Famine, of course the Quran contains a lots of informations that haven't been discovered before, all of the miracles I have post are part of it and all other miracle.

 

[axletramp]

Second: the response is simple. Because Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) was born in arabia and he was the man selected by GOD to deliver his message to us.

So God doesn't want anyone other than Arabic speaking people to truly understand his message and therefore follow him?

BTW, I'm not picking on Muslims per se, I'd have this issue with any religion that bases it's message on one single man-made language or excludes sections of the world's population on race, etc.

 

[nsite]

And why shouldn't we try and comprehend the world around us? You realize that if we didn't try, we'd be in medieval times still, right? Perhaps not even that.

I stand corrected. I guess it doesn't hurt to TRY to comprehend. I retract the 'should not' from my previous post. Thanks.

 

[CodeName]

So God doesn't want anyone other than Arabic speaking people to truly understand his message and therefore follow him?

No, the message is for everyone.
The Quran arrived in arabia and in arabic, this is logic. Now you can translate arabic in other language but it depends on how good you translate or not but knowing that they aren't the same language, it will never be the same as in arabic at the end.

 

[Famine]

Famine, of course the Quran contains a lots of informations that haven't been discovered before, all of the miracles I have post are part of it and all other miracle.

You've so far failed to post any information the Qu'ran contains that predates current knowledge.

You've posted several examples of verses that can be selectively interpreted after the knowledge was obtained, but none that predicted the knowledge before it was obtained. Of course you could easily manage this by posting something (falsifiable) from the Qu'ran pertaining to our universe that humanity has not yet discovered.

 

[CodeName]

You've so far failed to post any information the Qu'ran contains that predates current knowledge.

You've posted several examples of verses that can be selectively interpreted after the knowledge was obtained, but none that predicted the knowledge before it was obtained. Of course you could easily manage this by posting something (falsifiable) from the Qu'ran pertaining to our universe that humanity has not yet discovered.

Ok then prove that the post i have post before contains signs that have been discovered before.

21:30

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

21:31

And We placed within the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them, and We made therein [mountain] passes [as] roads that they might be guided

21:32

And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.

21:33

And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming.

21:34

And We did not grant to any man before you eternity [on earth]; so if you die - would they be eternal?

21:35

Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned.

 

[Famine]

That doesn't contain any empirical evidence. In fact it barely even qualifies as information. There's nothing in there that isn't in any other creation/heaven myth in the last six thousand years.

 

[Denur]

No, the message is for everyone.
The Quran arrived in arabia and in arabic, this is logic. Now you can translate arabic in other language but it depends on how good you translate or not but knowing that they aren't the same language, it will never be the same as in arabic at the end.

If your god exists, wouldn't he have the power to make sure that any translation could only be interpreted in the correct way?

 

[sumbrownkid]

He could have Denur, but he didn't. Allah intends for us to believe in his word, but he also expects us to form our own reasonings when it comes to understanding his will. He didn't give us rational minds just so we blindly follow whatever the imam or sheikh says during Friday prayers.

And as for the Quran being revealed in Arabic, well you can't expect Arabs to know English at the time.

 

[Denur]

He could have Denur, but he didn't. Allah intends for us to believe in his word, but he also expects us to form our own reasonings when it comes to understanding his will. He didn't give us rational minds just so we blindly follow whatever the imam or sheikh says during Friday prayers.

Does it say somewhere in the Koran that you shouldn't take its contents literally, but to interpret it the way you see fit? That wouldn't make much sense to me.

 

[CodeName]

If your god exists, wouldn't he have the power to make sure that any translation could only be interpreted in the correct way?

He could, but this is all the story of Satan, it is only because of him that we make sins and why people don't chose the right word for translation.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The Quran is written in poetic form. It is meant to be read, digested, discussed, and translated to the speaker's tongue to the best of their ability.

I personally don't know if the Quran strictly says "oh it must be literal" if poetry in itself is meant to have greater meaning behind the words than just being literal. Like an essay.

 

[skoSko9]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8088644#post8088644

That part hinges upon a similar discussion in the "God" thread. If you have proof, you don't need belief.

In science, you formulate a premise based on observation, which you develop into a hypothesis, which you then test. If it turns out to not be true, then you reject it. You don't continue to believe it. If it turns out to be true, then it's true, and belief is not necessary.

I wanna talk about how you don't need proof to do what is right. Basically faith, and this makes sense in acts that must be done without reason/logic.

From my favorite philosopher:

A social organism of any sort whatever, large or small, is what it is because each member proceeds to his own duty with a trust that the other members will simultaneously do theirs. Wherever a desired result is achieved by the co-operation of many independent persons, its existence as a fact is a pure consequence of the precursive faith in one another of those immediately concerned. A government, an army, a commercial system, a ship, a college, an athletic team, all exist on this condition, without which not only is nothing achieved, but nothing is even attempted. A whole train of passengers (individually brave enough) will be looted by a few highwaymen, simply because the latter can count on one another, while each passenger fears that if he makes a movement of resistance, he will be shot before any one else backs him up. If we believed that the whole car-full would rise {25} at once with us, we should each severally rise, and train-robbing would never even be attempted. There are, then, cases where a fact cannot come at all unless a preliminary faith exists in its coming. And where faith in a fact can help create the fact, that would be an insane logic which should say that faith running ahead of scientific evidence is the 'lowest kind of immorality' into which a thinking being can fall. Yet such is the logic by which our scientific absolutists pretend to regulate our lives!

-William James, Will to Believe

Yep, one must believe to understand!!!

 

[Denur]

He could have Denur, but he didn't. Allah intends for us to believe in his word, but he also expects us to form our own reasonings when it comes to understanding his will. He didn't give us rational minds just so we blindly follow whatever the imam or sheikh says during Friday prayers.

And as for the Quran being revealed in Arabic, well you can't expect Arabs to know English at the time.

He could, but this is all the story of Satan, it is only because of him that we make sins and why people don't chose the right word for translation.

So, which is it?