Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?
- Thread starter GTOne2Three
- 347 comments
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I know that Phil I'm not trying to limit metacritic to one way I'm saying the sources that they have see Forza as a more fun racing game than the SIMULATIONS of the games that were quoted. I know how they base it and I'm just taking a small portion of that reasoning and expanding it. Also I never claimed that GT5 was light years ahead of others on as far as simulation games go in fact I say in my post that GT has many leaps and bounds to go before it is a contender for true race sim. It is getting closer though with each new release.
- 563
Ratings and sales is not so impoprtant. Only Sony cares about it. PD just want to make great sim and get respect from the fans. Obviously they will get good money as well if the game sales are good. GT is the most important franchise for Sony and I think they will make sure it is always number1
- 3,241
- Desert Island
- GTP_DAN_
I used to have that very same view on PD's strategy, now I honestly think they are absolutely blind about the competition. Turn 10 has moved forwards with a incredible game ( Forza 3 ) and apparently is pushing the bar even higher with Forza 4, the rivalry system, the car clubs, Autovista, many western cars and the list goes on and on.
Not to mention the forthcoming monthly DLC, which is a fair way to reward the developers and steer the game towards the community even more. PD is admirable, and their legacy is unquestionable, but the time for a rethink has come and they haven't even noticed. Sad.
- 1,784
- Near DC
- MARK1615BEREAN
- I dont play xbox
I think it is really hard to Judge FOrza 4 until the game comes out I am all about GT5 ( just got my first wheel yesterday.) I would actually consider buying FOrza 4 if its a good quality driving experience my problem is the fact that I have to pay to play online that will never sit well with me at all
- 5,897
- Canada
I don't think competition crossed PD's mind. Some people might think that their real competition is themselves; they compare themselves to their past and see if they're improving. I don't see the point in comparing yourself with others. That said, GT5 has fallen behind when compared to other contemporary games.
- 5,351
- United States
- kudos00
You call my baby mediocre again, and I'm taking her/him away from you on weekends, TOO!!
In my opinion they ruined it when they dedicated 50% of the game to Spec-B.
I mean honestly, wtf
? Why would I want to waste my time watch a computer race a computer while I could race the computer myself.
For those who defend it, it is not even engaging. All you have is 4 commands,
and bob is useless.
That disk space and the time they wasted we could of have extra tracks (from the previous versions), more premium cars.
Another thing is why make half ass attempts at rally, nascar, F1? Do not bother, just make a very good GT with descent A-Spec and Online.
No FF & FR on replays!!! and also the pathetic Home screen.
I do miss it but I am glad I sold it.
I mean honestly, wtf
? Why would I want to waste my time watch a computer race a computer while I could race the computer myself.For those who defend it, it is not even engaging. All you have is 4 commands,
and bob is useless.
That disk space and the time they wasted we could of have extra tracks (from the previous versions), more premium cars.
Another thing is why make half ass attempts at rally, nascar, F1? Do not bother, just make a very good GT with descent A-Spec and Online.
No FF & FR on replays!!! and also the pathetic Home screen.
I do miss it but I am glad I sold it.
- 713
- UK
That's in peoples opinions.
For the record, I think there are parts of GT5 physics that are ahead of the competition, however, there are also parts that aren't (or missing), it is only on balance that I believe GT5 is only just ahead of the competition, which is still ahead, but it's not so much so people should be acting as if it's the be-all and end-all when it's clearly got some pretty obvious flaws..
My view is simple, GT5 lacks breadth in sim physics, it has room for improvement, it's just not at a level that you can say it is far ahead of it's competition just because it has got 1 or 2 elements pretty much spot on, but seems to have forgotten about a lot of things..
I'm happy to get into the why's and wherefores over physics, I'm always open to being educated and proved I'm wrong, I'm exceedingly open minded, and I've changed my mind over things when people have proved to me things aren't as I interpret them.
- 301
- Dorset
- Drtrebor007
Just watched the WHOLE video, at the end Good Ol' Stiggy is there Power Sliding a Aston
- 382
Why the hell should they even bother with the competition? C' mon. Kaz makes a game according to it's own recipe. And he doesn't go to the neighbour to borrow some spices. He grows his own in his backyard. As long as his boss (Sony) can put up with his cooking (does anybody mind the kittchen analogy here?), he won't change the today's special.
Got it?
Seconds anybody?
Got it?
Seconds anybody?
- 1,732
- cuco33
I saw some discussion regarding metacritic scores and I need to note one thing. It seems they updated it but at one time GTR, a top PC sim, had a review score of a 1 (I kid you not) factored in to the overall score where the reviewer compared it to NFS Pro Street (again, I kid you not).
These are "pro opinions" and none should be held as fact. What is good about mc is that it takes all review scores and is factored in to some sort of algorithm to yield a final score. If all scores are good, you'll see a good end score and likewise if all scores are bad you usually see a bad end score. I take opinions and reviews lightly and look across most. Not just the score.
These are "pro opinions" and none should be held as fact. What is good about mc is that it takes all review scores and is factored in to some sort of algorithm to yield a final score. If all scores are good, you'll see a good end score and likewise if all scores are bad you usually see a bad end score. I take opinions and reviews lightly and look across most. Not just the score.
I seriously do NOT understand the fanboys. What is wrong with GT being BETTER?!!
IMO ALL Forza needs to be as good as GT in the physics department is better wheel and FFB support. Both games on pads feel similar but with my wheel GT5 is amazing, M$s decision to not support logitech is so moronic. In fact I can do more in conjunction with my PC (which runs windows) and the PS3 than I can with my XB and my PC...how effed up is that?!! I have to go and buy another £200-£300 wheel just for Forza...no chance M$ you ****ed that right up. If Forza had the logitech support and they wrote the physics engine with that in mind 1st and foremost that would bring the physics up no end IMO. I forgot....it also needs to sort out the Nurburgring...it's bloody GODAWFUL in forza3!
But GT5 NEEDS a lot more to come up to Forza 3s level as an enjoyable game. AND by GAME I don't mean bloody arcade. Some of you lot thik that sim racing HAS to be some sort of fricken torture. Most professional race drivers LOVE driving....it's FUN for them!! Forza 3 is a much more complete gaming experience. In fact thinking of Forza 3 coupled with a G25 and GT5s wheel and ffb physics......heaven.
IMO ALL Forza needs to be as good as GT in the physics department is better wheel and FFB support. Both games on pads feel similar but with my wheel GT5 is amazing, M$s decision to not support logitech is so moronic. In fact I can do more in conjunction with my PC (which runs windows) and the PS3 than I can with my XB and my PC...how effed up is that?!! I have to go and buy another £200-£300 wheel just for Forza...no chance M$ you ****ed that right up. If Forza had the logitech support and they wrote the physics engine with that in mind 1st and foremost that would bring the physics up no end IMO. I forgot....it also needs to sort out the Nurburgring...it's bloody GODAWFUL in forza3!
But GT5 NEEDS a lot more to come up to Forza 3s level as an enjoyable game. AND by GAME I don't mean bloody arcade. Some of you lot thik that sim racing HAS to be some sort of fricken torture. Most professional race drivers LOVE driving....it's FUN for them!! Forza 3 is a much more complete gaming experience. In fact thinking of Forza 3 coupled with a G25 and GT5s wheel and ffb physics......heaven.
- 646
- UK
I know, it doesn't make any sense.
Livery editor, richer online features, better community features, rewind, store front, racing clubs, a complete reinvention of the franchise...I don't understand why anyone would be against these features in GT. If it makes more people buy GT and grows the audience, then let's include them. Any other opinion is one I simply don't understand.
- 489
- bigmama1954
Alright, now without reading any other post I'll say this. PD HAS to think about the competition. Why wouldn't they? GT5 isn't a perfect game by any means...no game is, but to make things better they need to look at what the competition does and see what the fans of GT, Forza, etc. think about it. If it's a good idea then they should try and implement it in their own way.
Now after looking at a few posts (and by that I mean like 4 or 5). I completely agree with deep_sky. There is nothing wrong with any of those features, and they would in fact make GT a much better experience for everyone.
Now after looking at a few posts (and by that I mean like 4 or 5). I completely agree with deep_sky. There is nothing wrong with any of those features, and they would in fact make GT a much better experience for everyone.
- 4,455
- São Paulo / Bra
- diegorborges82
I'm against rewind. It's just plain stupid and ultra-arcade-ish. If you crashed your car, you CRASHED. No rewind crap, this is not the matrix or an action movie. And no, we don't need a reinvention of the franchise. NFS is being reinvented again and again and again, and all we see is bad games, one after another imho. Nice looking racing games with poor physics of a boat.
We just need that what we have is perfected. Some more online features and stuff that improve the experience, like more customization and livery editor.
I think that PD's do not reckon the existence of competence,due to their concept,they think that nothing matches GT series,the problem that this generates is the the game concept is based on old concepts.
PD hasn't address this issue correctly,so PD(mainly Yamauchi)thinks that the next evolutionary step for GT series is a more streamlined focusing, instead of seeing what the people want and what makes the series good in the first place,now GT5 and its structure are just plain wrong,the Level system and the B-spec structure are incorrectly planed,also the A-spec events and how the game distributes its assets.
I think that GT5 lack of quality rely more on how the assets were distributed,a world map structure,the introduction of modification features and the balance between standard and premium(or total elimination of it by revising and replacing models with the same quality for all of them)would been aspects well received for players,but instead of doing this PD resorted to follow KY vision of the Real Driving Simulator,and while some aspects of it are correct(24 hrs races,rally events and licenses)some aspects of this vision do not belong to a game(B-spec).
Other aspect to be touch is how the competence use and organize its assets,and while I hate this aspect on FM3(FM1 and FM2 did good use of these assets which were aimed to both hardcore and casual)it has to be said that in FM3 the assets and features were correctly planned(even if this was for casual),Shift uses this aspect correctly as well and the same thing can be said about Dirt 3,Hot pursuit.
And yeah,my opinion towards GT5 has really change due to my extent play of it(although it has to be said that the online aspect of the game is well planned,well at least in my opinion).
PD hasn't address this issue correctly,so PD(mainly Yamauchi)thinks that the next evolutionary step for GT series is a more streamlined focusing, instead of seeing what the people want and what makes the series good in the first place,now GT5 and its structure are just plain wrong,the Level system and the B-spec structure are incorrectly planed,also the A-spec events and how the game distributes its assets.
I think that GT5 lack of quality rely more on how the assets were distributed,a world map structure,the introduction of modification features and the balance between standard and premium(or total elimination of it by revising and replacing models with the same quality for all of them)would been aspects well received for players,but instead of doing this PD resorted to follow KY vision of the Real Driving Simulator,and while some aspects of it are correct(24 hrs races,rally events and licenses)some aspects of this vision do not belong to a game(B-spec).
Other aspect to be touch is how the competence use and organize its assets,and while I hate this aspect on FM3(FM1 and FM2 did good use of these assets which were aimed to both hardcore and casual)it has to be said that in FM3 the assets and features were correctly planned(even if this was for casual),Shift uses this aspect correctly as well and the same thing can be said about Dirt 3,Hot pursuit.
And yeah,my opinion towards GT5 has really change due to my extent play of it(although it has to be said that the online aspect of the game is well planned,well at least in my opinion).
- 646
- UK
We really do.
Using the same tired and tedious (as well as horribly broken) formula from years gone by is just not the right approach.
It's time for something fresh and modern.
- 489
- bigmama1954
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
What community? newcomers want to put all their favourite features into GT. Classic GT players want a full finished GT game with all the promised features not a bastardized version of the game.
The competition does not have all the responses that's because Kaz is looking for real input from the fan base. Also aside of that there are planned features that don't need any voice to be added, just time.
Then read this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2
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- 1,466
- Canada
- mikethehockeyfan
I would say that although GT has evolved graphically over time, the game design is still stuck in the 1990s.
The career progression is basically set up so that you almost are forced to use an overpowered car and win every race. The game provides no reasonable path to progressing in the career mode through normal racing with evenly-matched cars. The game expects you to finish on the podium every race, almost, and rewards you based on that. It`s just dominating the dumb AI with a car much better than theirs, not real racing.
This is why I am baffled when people fault GT5 specifically on the A-spec mode. A-spec has always been a glorified event collect-em-all time trial, with the occasional AI to get in your way. A-spec just looks foolish now because it is up beside multiplayer racing where there is actually some competitive action to be had on track. Gotta catch em all A-Spec worked on PS1 and PS2, but we need to move on.
The career progression is basically set up so that you almost are forced to use an overpowered car and win every race. The game provides no reasonable path to progressing in the career mode through normal racing with evenly-matched cars. The game expects you to finish on the podium every race, almost, and rewards you based on that. It`s just dominating the dumb AI with a car much better than theirs, not real racing.
This is why I am baffled when people fault GT5 specifically on the A-spec mode. A-spec has always been a glorified event collect-em-all time trial, with the occasional AI to get in your way. A-spec just looks foolish now because it is up beside multiplayer racing where there is actually some competitive action to be had on track. Gotta catch em all A-Spec worked on PS1 and PS2, but we need to move on.
- 1,732
- cuco33
And there goes that C&D report being referenced again... which I'll bring up some of the issues I have with it, again
. They claimed they used a wheel with Forza but the wheel pictured in the image of the article is not 360 compatible. When asked what wheel they used for Forza, they didn't respond. The article was written by a new (at the time) C&D writer which appears to be a big GT fan, and there's nothing wrong with that.. aside from the clear bias in the article.
vandaliser
(Banned)
- 345
i am really sorry but when you start adding rewind to a list of features, it totally justs negates all your arguments.
The greatest non addtion has to be be rewind. It would have diluted much of GT's experience if it was enabled. It would be like playing fifa, mssing a goal and suddenly rewinding it again. It would have lowered the game's quality big time. The punishing element of the game would have been instantly neutered. So bravo PD.
Gran turismo succeeds because of two things. The variety of game modes in the game. And the gameplay itself. For me as long the driving experience of GT continues to satisfy me then kaz can do whatever he likes.
Copying the competition sometimes runs the risk of diluting your own image. Great games are those that have their own special things that are completely different to what other people are offering. And also you may add features that are completely at odds with the game case in point rewind. If Gran turismo is not for you then there is nothing wrong with that. By all means play forza to your heart's content.
But do not act as if you speak for the millions of other people that bought the game. Some of us are still playing it six months after release.
The greatest non addtion has to be be rewind. It would have diluted much of GT's experience if it was enabled. It would be like playing fifa, mssing a goal and suddenly rewinding it again. It would have lowered the game's quality big time. The punishing element of the game would have been instantly neutered. So bravo PD.
Gran turismo succeeds because of two things. The variety of game modes in the game. And the gameplay itself. For me as long the driving experience of GT continues to satisfy me then kaz can do whatever he likes.
Copying the competition sometimes runs the risk of diluting your own image. Great games are those that have their own special things that are completely different to what other people are offering. And also you may add features that are completely at odds with the game case in point rewind. If Gran turismo is not for you then there is nothing wrong with that. By all means play forza to your heart's content.
But do not act as if you speak for the millions of other people that bought the game. Some of us are still playing it six months after release.
- 563
Basically more tracks, cars all with cockpit, tweaked physics, improved graphics, sounds, AI and just a good improvement in other department is enough. I am sure they will bring some changes and look at feedback, critic remarks about GT5.
I also play lots of racing games. Gt is far sueprior to Forza. It has nothing over GT except customization and some option which I think are unnecessary.
I hope Kaz does not spend most times in things like these
vandaliser
(Banned)
- 345
the people who have supported the series trhroughout are those who actually care about the driving experience.
Gran Turismo is the only racing series that has successfully combined a casual and a hardcore market together apart from mario kart. The problem here is that the casual market is very fickle, volatile and non reliable. If you tailor make a game to appeal to casuals and ignore the fundamental aspect which the driving experience then you will end up like how socom series.
Socom tried to be a cod clone and ignored what made it great which resulted in such dramatic implosion. Kaz knows his audience which is why both iterations of GT5 this gen have a combined sales over 10 million. Another couple of years and GT5 alone would hit the 10 million mark. which is quite alot since the nearest competitor is miles behind. And the racing genre is not what it used to be with the current first person shooter craze
So I guess having cockpits on all cars, better car audio, more tuning and upgrade options, better career, storefront, auction house, etc are "unnecessary" to you?
- 4,455
- São Paulo / Bra
- diegorborges82
Competition? Dunno about competition. I wouldn't sell my PS3 just to get an xbox and FM4. It's way more complicated than that. PS3 have lots of other awesome games AND playing online its free. Profit! The ones who own both consoles are in the nice position If FM4 was on PS3 then I would say: Yeah, competition.
If someone that was dead for the last 6 months and come now to GTPlanet would think this has become Forzaplanet, not a GranTurismo forum, because latelly people talk 3x more about Forza than GT.
I think we should ask for better stuff, but looking at them from the GT point of view. Some want leaderboards, some want rims for standards, some want more premiums, some want more tracks and the folks who are right now enjoying their GT5s just want their games polished in the level that we're used to (and in the terms that how its supposed to be). I agree with those guys. I agree with all of you. We bought the game, we want the best experience possible.
But you can notice that it's different to say: "We need this on GT5 because it would improve our game." than "OMG, Forza has this, we need that too." <<< This is getting annoying. Seriously.
GT5 always been the series that introduced new stuff in its own particular way. Of course we need those well done, and I bet that when we get stuff like the livery editor it'll be implemented in a different way. People dislike paint chips... for me its ok, because in 80% of times when my friends go to paint a car, they simply pick a color and say: I want the Imola Yellow from Audi. I want the orange from Lamborghini. I bought my bimmer and its Estoril Blue. In real life, works like that. Because painters/repair shops already have the color codes from these cars, its just easier.
It's simply useless to want that GT5 become just one more game in the crowd. That will not happen. It's GT after all. People say Forza its a better "game", I agree. But unfortunatelly Granturismo never was a "game". As a simple "game" with objectives and all it fail. But when GT is done right its great for those who like it. GT4 is a good example on that, I could never finish mine, but I always have stuff to do if I want. Since day 1, since GT1... it's always like that, new stuff came just to add more stuff to the same package. Love or hate, that's how it works.
A complete change on the series? I don't agree. And I have my reasons (personal opinion): NFS series.
Who remember how great The Need For Speed (the first game) was? Those who are old enough can tell you some stories on how NFS series lost itself through the time... Even if arcadish, NFS once was a fun game.
If FM4 was on PS3 then I would say: Yeah, competition. If someone that was dead for the last 6 months and come now to GTPlanet would think this has become Forzaplanet, not a GranTurismo forum, because latelly people talk 3x more about Forza than GT.
I think we should ask for better stuff, but looking at them from the GT point of view. Some want leaderboards, some want rims for standards, some want more premiums, some want more tracks and the folks who are right now enjoying their GT5s just want their games polished in the level that we're used to (and in the terms that how its supposed to be). I agree with those guys. I agree with all of you. We bought the game, we want the best experience possible.
But you can notice that it's different to say: "We need this on GT5 because it would improve our game." than "OMG, Forza has this, we need that too." <<< This is getting annoying. Seriously.
GT5 always been the series that introduced new stuff in its own particular way. Of course we need those well done, and I bet that when we get stuff like the livery editor it'll be implemented in a different way. People dislike paint chips... for me its ok, because in 80% of times when my friends go to paint a car, they simply pick a color and say: I want the Imola Yellow from Audi. I want the orange from Lamborghini. I bought my bimmer and its Estoril Blue. In real life, works like that. Because painters/repair shops already have the color codes from these cars, its just easier.
It's simply useless to want that GT5 become just one more game in the crowd. That will not happen. It's GT after all. People say Forza its a better "game", I agree. But unfortunatelly Granturismo never was a "game". As a simple "game" with objectives and all it fail. But when GT is done right its great for those who like it. GT4 is a good example on that, I could never finish mine, but I always have stuff to do if I want. Since day 1, since GT1... it's always like that, new stuff came just to add more stuff to the same package. Love or hate, that's how it works.
A complete change on the series? I don't agree. And I have my reasons (personal opinion): NFS series.
Who remember how great The Need For Speed (the first game) was? Those who are old enough can tell you some stories on how NFS series lost itself through the time... Even if arcadish, NFS once was a fun game.
- 40,848
There are people who buy every GT game as soon as it comes out who couldn't care less about the driving experience of the game. They just buy it to collect cars. I had a friend in high school who owned every GT game who absolutely loved GT4 above all others because of how much he could do in the game without actually having to race (B-Spec gave him the credits, which he used to buy cars mostly so he could use Photomode).
- Status
