Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?

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Just wow. One websites opinion :ouch: .

GT5 imo is better than FM3, but didn't get the best reviews due to it being, admittedly, overhyped.
GT5 didn't get the best reviews because it wasn't very good, being overhyped had nothing to do with that. GT5 was a huge disappointment to many fans, including myself.

And metcritic isn't "one websites opinion". They take all reviews and average them out into one rating. Basically FM3 got more higher reviews than GT5 thus getting a higher metcritic score.
 
Lil Ape
GT5 didn't get the best reviews because it wasn't very good, being overhyped had nothing to do with that. GT5 was a huge disappointment to many fans, including myself.

And metcritic isn't "one websites opinion". They take all reviews and average them out into one rating. Basically FM3 got more higher reviews than GT5 thus getting a higher metcritic score.

Not disappointed here best game I have so far. The driving experience is like no other IMO.
 
GT5 didn't get the best reviews because it wasn't very good, being overhyped had nothing to do with that. GT5 was a huge disappointment to many fans, including myself.

And metcritic isn't "one websites opinion". They take all reviews and average them out into one rating. Basically FM3 got more higher reviews than GT5 thus getting a higher metcritic score.

Metacritic means nothing unless you hold other peoples opinions as the deciding factor if a game is good, and some of those reviews are a joke e.g call of duty games always get good score's even thought its the same game as the last.It is very difficult to tell how gt5 has been received by the 6+ millions who bought it, the complainers on these forums are a minority and so are the reviewers. Considering its selling well(on par with gt4) i would say it probably has been received well by the public.
 
Back to the original question:

There's no shame in seeing a great idea in another game/sim and implementing it into your own. It gives consumers more incentive to buy yours.

In Kaz's case though, I suspect that implementing other games' ideas (autolog, telemetry, etc.) is, to him, some kind of admission that GT isn't what it could be and there's too much pride there.

In some ways, I think he's still living in the past. There was a time when GT was the pinnacle of the driving sim, he was the first to do it, and the game deserved the accolades it got.

Now, there are plenty of developers who are coming out and equaling, or doing better, things than GT. They've caught up while Kaz is still reveling in what was. He's made a great game, no doubt, but he won't be the leader of the pack much longer--and some would argue he no longer is.
 
Not disappointed here best game I have so far. The driving experience is like no other IMO.
See i bought a PS3 just for GT5. You could probably imagine how pissed is was after spending $400+ just to play one game that wasn't nearly as great as i was expecting.
 
The point isn't whether the game is good enough to produce a race driver but rather the program implemented. Had PD/Sony/Nissan not came up with the idea of GT Academy fueled of course by the game itself, Lucas might not be where he is today.

Sure, Turn 10/Xbox have sponsored racers and cars etc. but compare the ad banner of Forza at Le Mans to that of Gran Turismo. You obviously know that the bigger the sign/ad the more money has been paid by the sponsor. Of course, you probably already know that other than being the main sponsor of 24 hour of Nurburgring (the keyword being main, not merely one that sets up booth at events), PD also sponsors the Japanese Super GT series and D1 GP (that's drifting GP).

Without GTAcademy Lucas wouldn't have this opportunity, but his skill wasn't solely due to sim racing.. his karting experience also helped tremendously. There's no rules that says you can't do both so it's one of those. Sadly most praising Lucas as the poster child keep neglecting his karting experience, which again is massive.

You also said, and I quote "No other games be it Forza or NFS put their money back into the sport that they're benefitting from." and then I posted just a few tidbits of Le Mans, Pug 908 and MS's sponsorship, and I even stated that Sony is a far bigger player in motorsports sponsorships than MS is. You're now changing your stance though on what you originally claimed.. so it's one of those..
Again, I fully know that Sony is the bigger sponsor in motorsports than MS but it's not what you were claiming on no one else backs the sport. Sony just backs it the most.
 
Without GTAcademy Lucas wouldn't have this opportunity, but his skill wasn't solely due to sim racing.. his karting experience also helped tremendously. There's no rules that says you can't do both so it's one of those. Sadly most praising Lucas as the poster child keep neglecting his karting experience, which again is massive.

You also said, and I quote "No other games be it Forza or NFS put their money back into the sport that they're benefitting from." and then I posted just a few tidbits of Le Mans, Pug 908 and MS's sponsorship, and I even stated that Sony is a far bigger player in motorsports sponsorships than MS is. You're now changing your stance though on what you originally claimed.. so it's one of those..
Again, I fully know that Sony is the bigger sponsor in motorsports than MS but it's not what you were claiming on no one else backs the sport. Sony just backs it the most.

I'm not trying to start an argument but merely pointing out the obvious.
 
Not disappointed here best game I have so far. The driving experience is like no other IMO.
Yep is difficult to be disappointed with the game if you are serious about the driving experience. As a virtual tool to test all type of cars on different environments is a dream come true, but I can understand the disappointment of the people that looked more for the classic videogame entertainment in the package.

I'm also not disappointed, just the contrary.

Without GTAcademy Lucas wouldn't have this opportunity, but his skill wasn't solely due to sim racing.. his karting experience also helped tremendously. There's no rules that says you can't do both so it's one of those. Sadly most praising Lucas as the poster child keep neglecting his karting experience, which again is massive.
The great thing of Lucas and GT5 is that he was capable of sharing its previous child kart experience to gain access to the finals, I'm sure that if it was a Mario Kart videogame instead of GT he will not have the same success at the leaderboards.

If I'm not wrong one of the requirements in the GT Academy is the prohibition of any previous real race experience or race license. There are more than one finalists in every GT Academy and most of them have not much experience except GT and they are capable of jumping at the track and do it much better than most of the judges expected for videogame players.

At the end the whole process of the GT Academy is a resource to find talented drivers and works great.
 
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Zer0
Yep is difficult to be disappointed with the game if you are serious about the driving experience. As a virtual tool to test all type of cars on different environments is a dream come true, but I can understand the disappointment of the people that looked more for the classic videogame entertainment in the package.

I'm also not disappointed, just the contrary.

The great thing of Lucas and GT5 is that he was capable of sharing its previous child kart experience to gain access to the finals, I'm sure that if it was a Mario Kart videogame instead of GT he will not have the same success at the leaderboards.

If I'm not wrong one of the requirements in the GT Academy is the prohibition of any previous real race experience or race license. There are more than one finalists in every GT Academy and most of them have not much experience except GT and they are capable of jumping at the track and do it much better than most of the judges expected for videogame players.

At the end the whole process of the GT Academy is a resource to find talented drivers and works great.

Zero! What's up man I agree with you 100% I just got done with the 4 hour nurb. It was amazing so intense the pitting is something I have never imagine being pleased by. I finally got to see the helmet and racing suit video,it was sweet. That video got me pumped for the fact you can see all the different gear. I'm betting in the future you will see no driver the same online(except THE STIG) because of the different gear we will be getting. With that in mind I'm sure PD will surprise us with more customization goodies.

As you said though the driving experience is like no other. People are upset about the standard cars and I can understand that, but I have some of my best races online against people in standard cars. For that I'm thankful, yes they look like bad compared to the premiums ( just as every-game in a whole) but they give me more choices to drive which is why I play this game.
 
GT5 didn't get the best reviews because it wasn't very good, being overhyped had nothing to do with that. GT5 was a huge disappointment to many fans, including myself.

And metcritic isn't "one websites opinion". They take all reviews and average them out into one rating. Basically FM3 got more higher reviews than GT5 thus getting a higher metcritic score.

Who buys a racing sim based on ratings of gaming sites :lol:
 
Yep is difficult to be disappointed with the game if you are serious about the driving experience.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the audience don't care about the driving experience.

They care about comprehensive online features, a deeper level of car customisation and personalisation, more community features and racing clubs, a game design that isn't the same regurgitated garbage PD have been using for 15 years and instead something fresh and modern....all of which GT spectacularly failed to deliver.

Yeah, the driving is incredible - maybe even the best in class. But the reality, whether anyone likes it or not, is that most people just don't care about GT's qualifications as a simulator.
 
So, what, you think "It's not part of the GT Vision" is a legitimate reason for PD to ignore advances in the genre?
Well now you're saying just because GT doesn't have engine swaps it's not going to advance in the genre?

?? lol.
 
Who buys a racing sim based on ratings of gaming sites :lol:

I know 5 people who didn't buy gt5 because of ign's rating of 8.5(wtf,how is 8.5/10 a bad score!!).People trust reviews a lot more than they should,most people seem to forget reviews are(just like what YOU think of a game) just someone else's opinion.
 
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the audience don't care about the driving experience.

They care about comprehensive online features, a deeper level of car customisation and personalisation, more community features and racing clubs, a game design that isn't the same regurgitated garbage PD have been using for 15 years and instead something fresh and modern....all of which GT spectacularly failed to deliver.

Yeah, the driving is incredible - maybe even the best in class. But the reality, whether anyone likes it or not, is that most people just don't care about GT's qualifications as a simulator.

You are generalizing too much, and that too based on a meager assumption. I do agree that the general public won't look too much into how real GT or Forza for that matter is, but that's the point - they only want to drive. Pardon me but the reason I bought Forza over NFS was because of the driving, despite NFS having the similar graphics, badass sounds, customization and online as Forza. People do look into the driving experience, and when it comes down to it, in that sense Kaz does not really see competition - generally people who want to race a 'casual sim' will buy one based on what console they have and the availability of the game, so the casual PS3 owners will buy GT5 because there is nothing else the PS3 has to offer. People like Lil Ape are butthurt because they are the ones at a loss for buying a console just for one goddamn game, I haven't seen such myopic vision in a while...

I'm not saying GT doesn't need customization or better online, it does, desperately, because it's gonna be flushed down the drain if it isn't, but that is not the main selling point of Forza - it's simulation aspect is.

Also, critic scores are absolute bull because they only look into how enjoyable a game is based on their generalized gaming preference. ArmA II and examples pointed out by Zer0 show that they don't look into realism, on the contrary, only the accessibility of the game, which Forza easily provides
 
deep_sky
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the audience don't care about the driving experience.

They care about comprehensive online features, a deeper level of car customisation and personalisation, more community features and racing clubs, a game design that isn't the same regurgitated garbage PD have been using for 15 years and instead something fresh and modern....all of which GT spectacularly failed to deliver.

Yeah, the driving is incredible - maybe even the best in class. But the reality, whether anyone likes it or not, is that most people just don't care about GT's qualifications as a simulator.

I don't care what people like man for me it's about the driving experience. Watching your replay on the ring seeing the Takata belts clutch your driver while braking hard is epic in my book. Just watching the 24 Hour LeMans gives me so much more appreciation for GT5 for giving me a very close feeling to what those drivers get.
 
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I don't care what people like man for me it's about the driving experience.
If that's what GT represents to you, then that's absolutely fine. There's no problem with that at all and I'm happy that you are happy.

But the simple, blunt reality is that this is not the case for the vast majority of the the audience. The want the features I listed; and in truth I could list many more.

You should care about what other people want, because if those people are not catered for, they're just going to defect to other games, read: Forza, and that's bad news for everyone.

GT needs as many people buying the game as possible to help continue funding the studio and its staff. If only people like you bought GT i.e. the people who are after the driving experience, then GT and Polyphony Digital would be a fraction of what is it today.
 
The great thing of Lucas and GT5 is that he was capable of sharing its previous child kart experience to gain access to the finals, I'm sure that if it was a Mario Kart videogame instead of GT he will not have the same success at the leaderboards.

If I'm not wrong one of the requirements in the GT Academy is the prohibition of any previous real race experience or race license. There are more than one finalists in every GT Academy and most of them have not much experience except GT and they are capable of jumping at the track and do it much better than most of the judges expected for videogame players.

At the end the whole process of the GT Academy is a resource to find talented drivers and works great.

To me there's a lot great with Lucas and GT Academy but personally I especially like that a spot light is shined on sim racers in general. The iRacing kid didn't get as much attention, at least not in the states. I don't think race teams ever took simmers serious until recently and for that I'm stoked (even if I suck in comparison :dopey:)
 
Talking about customization even though FM3 is better than GT5 look at the approach gt5 is taking. We just got an update where we can change our driver suits and helmets. All that gear is real gear Sparco, Simpson etc. If you look at the interior views you can see HKS Apexi, Defi etc real products. If PD can get these customization where the user can have control of them that will be a huge plus. I love forza customization but I don't see Takata belts strapping in the driver. A livery editor should be in GT5, it a great feature in FM. I've spent countless of hours trying to create things.
 
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i personally think that Pd doing something right as I haven't played anything but gt5 since Christmas.
Also I don't think forza has as bigger independent forum as gtplanet.
my last point is that fm3 was a very good game and I was very impressed with it and if fm4 is far better I can see sony losing a lot of money in the future
 
Yep is difficult to be disappointed with the game if you are serious about the driving experience.

Satisfaction and acceptance of the game aren't related.

I'm not satisfied with what was given, but GT5 is still my favorite and most played console game. In fact, that's a big reason why I'm so critical of it, I like it.

As far as driving experience goes, it's not flawless. And a very large portion of players like to race, there are issues there as well. The hardcore sim driver has as much to be dissatisfied with as the arcade players.
 
Well I am no Forza expert but apart from customization, rewind and some other things like community which some people care. It has less features.

Let us list the Features of FM3 to the same anal detail you yourself list GT's features (i.e animated aero and headlights are "features")

Dynamic Career
Event List
Auction House
Storefront
Multiscreen
Livery editor
Paint shop (yup, they are 2 different things)
Might as well add the separated sticker editor
Message Center
Custom Soundtracks
Hotlap
Arcade Race
Leaderboards (global)
Leaderboards (friends)
Drag Racing
Point to Point racing (or tarmac rally)
Drifting
Oval
Stockcars
LMP
ALMS
V8 Supercars
DTM
Time Attack
Matchmaking
Custom Lobbies
Photomode
Replay Theatre
Garage

And that wouldn't even be half of it

Just wow. One websites opinion :ouch: .

GT5 imo is better than FM3, but didn't get the best reviews due to it being, admittedly, overhyped.

Maybe someone should learn what metacritic is.
 
If that's what GT represents to you, then that's absolutely fine. There's no problem with that at all and I'm happy that you are happy.

But the simple, blunt reality is that this is not the case for the vast majority of the the audience. The want the features I listed; and in truth I could list many more.

You should care about what other people want, because if those people are not catered for, they're just going to defect to other games, read: Forza, and that's bad news for everyone.

GT needs as many people buying the game as possible to help continue funding the studio and its staff. If only people like you bought GT i.e. the people who are after the driving experience, then GT and Polyphony Digital would be a fraction of what is it today.
I don't share your apocalyptic vision. The vast majority of the audience keep buying GT games even more than others franchises so the formula still works and have an audience. The series are clearly evolving in features and posibilities with GT5, now more than ever with every update.

Sales are strong as were with previous games so I don't see any evidence that support your claims. May be you make your predictions based on internet forums noise or personal preferences? that would be a big mistake, also Forza features over GT games are not new and didn't stop the success in previous titles.


Satisfaction and acceptance of the game aren't related.

I'm not satisfied with what was given, but GT5 is still my favorite and most played console game. In fact, that's a big reason why I'm so critical of it, I like it.

As far as driving experience goes, it's not flawless. And a very large portion of players like to race, there are issues there as well. The hardcore sim driver has as much to be dissatisfied with as the arcade players.
Personally I don't need a hardcore sim experience in the sense that all the minor details or extraordinary events need to be reproduced. I'm happy with the sim driving aspect or nailing the feeling of the car and reading post like this makes me realize that the same obsessive care put in the visual aspect of the cars is put also on recreating its driving.

That's exactly what I look for in a sim, I prefer that to a less authentic but more hardcore experience.
 
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Let us list the Features of FM3 to the same anal detail you yourself list GT's features (i.e animated aero and headlights are "features")

Dynamic Career
Event List
Auction House
Storefront
Multiscreen
Livery editor
Paint shop (yup, they are 2 different things)
Might as well add the separated sticker editor
Message Center
Custom Soundtracks
Hotlap
Arcade Race
Leaderboards (global)
Leaderboards (friends)
Drag Racing
Point to Point racing (or tarmac rally)
Drifting
Oval
Stockcars
LMP
ALMS
V8 Supercars
DTM
Time Attack
Matchmaking
Custom Lobbies
Photomode
Replay Theatre
Garage

And that wouldn't even be half of it



Maybe someone should learn what metacritic is.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/firstandthen.jpg/
 
Sales are strong as were with previous games so I don't see any evidence that support your claims.
How is 14.89m > 11.19m > 6.37m "strong as were with previous games"?

It's a massive decline. Even if you want to play the "GT5's numbers are only till the end of 2010" card, GT5 is not going to beat GT3, and it's highly unlikely to match GT4's sales.

I don't understand how people can have their heads in the sand over this. GT is in massive decline both commercially and critically.

The good news is that Sony don't want this to happen, so theoretically speaking, with GT6 we should get the features people have been asking for, features that appeal to everyone, whether you're a sim fanatic or a casual racer who just wants to paint cars....even if I am holding my breath.
 
How is 14.89m > 11.19m > 6.37m "strong as were with previous games"?

It's a massive decline. Even if you want to play the "GT5's numbers are only till the end of 2010" card, GT5 is not going to beat GT3, and it's highly unlikely to match GT4's sales.

I don't understand how people can have their heads in the sand over this. GT is in massive decline both commercially and critically.

The good news is that Sony don't want this to happen, so theoretically speaking, with GT6 we should get the features people have been asking for, features that appeal to everyone, whether you're a sim fanatic or a casual racer who just wants to paint cars....even if I am holding my breath.

I dont think you understand the sales numbers you just quoted i wont bother it was explained before.
 
I dont think you understand the sales numbers you just quoted i wont bother it was explained before.
There's no explanation needed. It's a massive decline.

Hell, GT4 released on a much larger PS2 install base than GT3 and still managed to hemorrhage over 3 million people. Just accept GT is in decline. You'll feel a lot better for it.
 
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